Hi all, and once again thank you for the wonderful freedom which allows me at times to rant so eloquently, this time to introduce the father.
Long ago there was 0, infinite, the level plateau. 0 exists as nothing, everything in a dormant state, but because it is dormant does not mean it ceases to exist all is still contained within 0, 0 is everything focused to the same point.
0 can only exist for so long before it needs to confirm it's own infinity, and just by questioning 1 is created. 0 looks at 1 and duality is created, when 0 becomes 1 and one becomes 2 what happens then?
Everything exists as it has always existed and always will exist, the same light that’s in me is in you, is in all life, all matter all creation no matter how insignificant.
Each of us has our own sphere of consciousness, we all know this it's our space. We're not human, we're not spirit we're not anything except I AM. All things see life in the beginning and say I AM, I AM Human, I AM Bird, when really we should see that I AM light, the reflection we see is an illusion created for our own benefit.
Nothing is hidden from those who want to see, enlightenment, peace of mind, understanding and infinite love are all things any of us can have simply by having them. We need to stop reacting from the ego and start reacting by seeing all things as equal and using the gifts we have been given to keep that sacred balance.
A flock of birds operate as a single bird, one consciousness, as do dolphins whales and many many more creatures. There is a collective consciousness we have long forgotten and it seems that now once again it is coming to the forefront of our psyches.
We must see that for all of our advances as a race that we are still the most primitive form of life because we are the only form of life that engages in acts of atrocity and justifies them at such a large scale. We think wholesale slaughter of animals, mining of essential resources, destroying continents of forests is okay because there must be progress.
From this train of logic progress will only ultimately lead to death. It is the path of darkness because it is not in balance with the universe in which we live. This path is trying to improve on the Gods perfection by covering his with our ideal of it.
I’m not talking about tree hugging or becoming a communal hippie, I’m talking about people being able to look at the bigger picture and see whats going on. People want to understand God, to the majority of people religion is a tremendously important part of life, so why can’t they see that the life they live is in direct opposition with the beliefs they supposedly follow.
How many people can still claim to love thy neighbor as thyself ?
How many of us covet everything including the neighbors wife?
We’ve created a society where once again sin can be justified by mass opinion.
God to truly be God is neither good nor evil. Good and evil are the names of duality, opposite names of the same emotion. When you hate someone or love someone there is no difference in the emotion your feeling, the difference is in your perception of that person. So even though we perceive these to be different emotions they are both the same. God is good and evil, light and darkness, God is creation free of ego.
In our case as metaphors for God our duality is the separation of left and right, male and female, life and death. They’re all symbols for the same thing, duality the balance of opposites. Our goal should be to re-unite, let the scientists paint and sing let the musicians know the mystery of 3, all people should be well versed in all things, because all things are the same. Our names for them are different.
To see God is to be able to see beyond duality, with the excitement of a child and through the eyes of a child you will see the father.
Full Version: What is God?
The farther you see the father you don't !!
But you will not accept this because of your beliefs; they stop you seeing Father.
But you will not accept this because of your beliefs; they stop you seeing Father.
"To see God is to be able to see beyond duality" I'm not sure about the father you see father you don't part though if you could explain it a little better I'd be happy to talk about it.
I believe in everyone looking inside themselves past duality, past ego past to really search for a way to become something more.
I believe in everyone looking inside themselves past duality, past ego past to really search for a way to become something more.
post removed
If you state an opinion say so - don't claim unproven facts.
Post edited by Rhymer
If you state an opinion say so - don't claim unproven facts.
Post edited by Rhymer
I wish I could see the post removed by Rhymer. It must have been quite an opinion to cause such a reaction. Here's my opinion, which is also provable (eventually):
God is a set of ideas constructed by people. Each person's idea of God is unique. Some of these ideas get written down and promulgated as religion. As an idea, God has no existence in the ontological sense, just as no idea "exists." The ideas (in the Platonic sense) are all constructed by human minds and sometimes recorded in books or on computer disks. When we read about an idea, we reconstruct it in our own mind. This philosophy, that ideas don't have existence, is sometimes called materialism.
God is a set of ideas constructed by people. Each person's idea of God is unique. Some of these ideas get written down and promulgated as religion. As an idea, God has no existence in the ontological sense, just as no idea "exists." The ideas (in the Platonic sense) are all constructed by human minds and sometimes recorded in books or on computer disks. When we read about an idea, we reconstruct it in our own mind. This philosophy, that ideas don't have existence, is sometimes called materialism.
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 19, 01:13 PM) |
| I wish I could see the post removed by Rhymer. |
me too!
They say "out of sight - out of mind".
I guess it's not true!!
The post I deleted was simply an expansion of the 05.59 posting by 'unknown', which clearly indicated that there were no typo's viz., "The more you learn about reality the less the probability that you will discover or believe in God".
[these are my words. They merely restate "The farther you see the father you don't !!"]
What followed was a grossly insulting statement [IMHO] about those who have beliefs [but wasn't an insult to unknown, who also a believer in own opinions].
If 'unknown' wishes to post a repeat I cannot stop him/her/it.
The post was up for an hour before I spotted it, and I do not delete lightly!
I guess it's not true!!
The post I deleted was simply an expansion of the 05.59 posting by 'unknown', which clearly indicated that there were no typo's viz., "The more you learn about reality the less the probability that you will discover or believe in God".
[these are my words. They merely restate "The farther you see the father you don't !!"]
What followed was a grossly insulting statement [IMHO] about those who have beliefs [but wasn't an insult to unknown, who also a believer in own opinions].
If 'unknown' wishes to post a repeat I cannot stop him/her/it.
The post was up for an hour before I spotted it, and I do not delete lightly!
Would you be equally likely to delete posts insulting those who disbelieve? Not that I think I need protection or anything. Maybe beleivers are just easier to insult? I hope you don't take this the wrong way.
I welcome all input regardless of opinion as what I present is my own opinion, I feel some of it could be of use to some of you so I post it, I've had worse comments from people and since I generally talk about things people build entire realities from and ask them to question it I get a few adverse reactions.
Rick as you so aptly put the search for a God is to rid yourself of personal constructs, very aptly put sir I commend you.
For God to be God it has to be in control of all darkness and all light, the very balance of the energy of creation. It's not a person, it's not a force. It's a central point. We use words to describe states which allow us to open ourselves to more than we would normally. This is the original mechanism behind prayer and meditation, and it is also the reason our society which is based so much in church rule is in opposition to drugs and sexual freedom.
From these states we experience different emotions and explore them but after a while you come to a point where you realize that they are all the same energy. Every emotion is the same energy as love we just name it different things so it brings out an appropriate reaction to the situation. That’s what being balanced is all about, it's not the life long quest people would have you to believe it's a very simple understanding which instantly allows you the 3rd party perspective in all situations.
To keep people believing they are just normal people they need to be focused into one mindset, to them that is all that exists and all outside of it is ridiculous. Drugs, self exploration, sex, art music the "devils" of our society are actually the methods we use to explore ourselves and what we really are. They don't want people to see the benefits of one mindset over another, to them there's simply the right way. This is basically a form of hypnosis because at some point in your development you take everything you’re told as fact, this later manifests into who you become, or individuality. We're all the same consciousness, all the same light as we've been told so so many times before everything we see as different is of our making, our impressions of it, and it’s not reality because it’s subjective..
God is you free of all delusions, nothing more, I'm just trying to show him in his many names.
Rick as you so aptly put the search for a God is to rid yourself of personal constructs, very aptly put sir I commend you.
For God to be God it has to be in control of all darkness and all light, the very balance of the energy of creation. It's not a person, it's not a force. It's a central point. We use words to describe states which allow us to open ourselves to more than we would normally. This is the original mechanism behind prayer and meditation, and it is also the reason our society which is based so much in church rule is in opposition to drugs and sexual freedom.
From these states we experience different emotions and explore them but after a while you come to a point where you realize that they are all the same energy. Every emotion is the same energy as love we just name it different things so it brings out an appropriate reaction to the situation. That’s what being balanced is all about, it's not the life long quest people would have you to believe it's a very simple understanding which instantly allows you the 3rd party perspective in all situations.
To keep people believing they are just normal people they need to be focused into one mindset, to them that is all that exists and all outside of it is ridiculous. Drugs, self exploration, sex, art music the "devils" of our society are actually the methods we use to explore ourselves and what we really are. They don't want people to see the benefits of one mindset over another, to them there's simply the right way. This is basically a form of hypnosis because at some point in your development you take everything you’re told as fact, this later manifests into who you become, or individuality. We're all the same consciousness, all the same light as we've been told so so many times before everything we see as different is of our making, our impressions of it, and it’s not reality because it’s subjective..
God is you free of all delusions, nothing more, I'm just trying to show him in his many names.
| QUOTE (Besus @ Dec 20, 05:00 PM) |
| Drugs, self exploration, sex, art music the "devils" of our society are actually the methods we use to explore ourselves and what we really are. |
the great thing about life is that nothing is forbidden. I see too many programmed into daily routines and inhibited by societal constraints, and unaware of the unbounded freedom before them. If only they knew...
| QUOTE (Besus @ Dec 20, 05:00 PM) |
| they are all the same energy. Every emotion is the same energy as love |
Where was love when our solar system was forming? Or on earth before man-kind existence? What is love, any way? is it a force? and if so, how powerful? Is it the ultimate energy? and, how do we tap it?
Regardless of the "emotion" we're having the actual energy is the same, only the intensity brought out by a situation causes it to become warped into hatred, love, happiness and so on.
We can't help but tap it, we tap it all the time it's everything we feel, it's everything that inspires us everything that defines us.
We can't help but tap it, we tap it all the time it's everything we feel, it's everything that inspires us everything that defines us.
| QUOTE (Besus @ Dec 21, 10:18 AM) |
| We can't help but tap it, we tap it all the time it's everything we feel, it's everything that inspires us everything that defines us. |
Nice. But, if we are already doing this (tapping this energy), why are we getting nowhere-as a race. We are heading for disaster right now: self-destruction. What real answers to today's real problems does this energy offer? I really want to know all that there is to know about love as this alleged (alternative?) energy of unlimited potential.
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 19, 01:13 PM) |
| God is a set of ideas constructed by people. Each person's idea of God is unique. Some of these ideas get written down and promulgated as religion. As an idea, God has no existence in the ontological sense, just as no idea "exists." The ideas (in the Platonic sense) are all constructed by human minds and sometimes recorded in books or on computer disks. When we read about an idea, we reconstruct it in our own mind. This philosophy, that ideas don't have existence, is sometimes called materialism. |
Ehe, you know Rick, hmmm, you know eeeee. I dare to think and say that you are not quite correct.
Here is a nice quote from a speech of one interesting person you so much do �like� to �quote�
"God is not dead, nor does he sleep. The wrong shall fail, the right prevail, with peace on Earth, good-will to men." From the US President George W. Bush speech on 19 December 2005.
That old carol he quoted possibly may contain some sense.
Materialism is a wrong category, which misleads. It may turn so that new knowledge acquired during meticulous scientific research and analysis may turn entire metaphysics into normal physics. Your statements sound too dogmatic. From the other side it is worth to consider weather mankind is ready for such knowledge. Aristotle by the introduction of the false categories �water�, �earth�, �air�, �fire� seriously slowed the progress of mankind mixing the keys of the all data basis. In contrary Robert Boyle cracked Aristotle�s hackerism and introduced new categories and new keys for the databases �solid state� �liquid state� �gaseous state� � as he choused the right keys of the nature which were obvious (from the very begining
) the world changed forever. In the same way, in my humble opinion such false categories of thinking as �idealism� and �materialism� are of the same kind and have had more dramatic effect than (as) Aristotelian �errors�. On the other side to read the alchemical categories properly one needs to have the conversion table of the 'false' words: stone, gold, fire, man, woman etc. I think that unfortunately mankind is not ready to see what really stands behind that table, yet. But some people in Europe, for reasons which are still a mystery for me are planing to change everything. Unfortunately half knowledge sometimes are much dangerous than their absence. Off top:
Dear Shawn, My control panel functions very badly, all the links do not work, they show blank lists even those which worked before. You promised to correct that. Do a favor to Enki please, spend couple of minutes on poor spirit from faraway country. I cannot even monitor the topics I have posted before and respond to the comments properly. That is why I am not so frequent. Technical problems? Other? If other I will correct that myself.
Unknown you can't speak for everyone as a race, the only person you can change is yourself and hope that other people follow your lead. I know plenty of people who feel the way I do any each of them does their best to do whatever they can do help.
People believe that what they do doesn't matter, but every genuine change you make for the better will being more good to your life. You get out what you put in.
If your interested in learning more try looking at psychology and NLP to give you an understanding of how we create reality. Read books on Indian and Chineese Spirituality to see the name of the energy in different forms and how it can be used.
Emotions are like a gun they all fire the same bullet but it's the reason we pull the trigger that defines us.
People believe that what they do doesn't matter, but every genuine change you make for the better will being more good to your life. You get out what you put in.
If your interested in learning more try looking at psychology and NLP to give you an understanding of how we create reality. Read books on Indian and Chineese Spirituality to see the name of the energy in different forms and how it can be used.
Emotions are like a gun they all fire the same bullet but it's the reason we pull the trigger that defines us.
It's amusing that a quote from the idiot-in-chief is offered to support a contention that I am incorrect in believing that ideas are not in an ontologically valid category.
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 21, 01:48 PM) |
| It's amusing that a quote from the idiot-in-chief is offered to support a contention that I am incorrect in believing that ideas are not in an ontologically valid category. |
I will put your words in my diary Rick.
| QUOTE (Enki @ Dec 21, 04:34 PM) |
| Dear Shawn, My control panel functions very badly, all the links do not work, they show blank lists even those which worked before. You promised to correct that. Do a favor to Enki please, spend couple of minutes on poor spirit from faraway country. I cannot even monitor the topics I have posted before and respond to the comments properly. That is why I am not so frequent. Technical problems? Other? If other I will correct that myself. |
Since I started hosting BrainMeta on local servers, I have not set up the mail server, which is why you do not receive email updates to topics you're subscribed to. Let me see what I can do this Xmas break with fixing some of the forum issues.
I agree Rick that many ideas about the God "are not in an ontologically valid category"
If they get corrected all will change! Everything will change...
If they get corrected all will change! Everything will change...
| QUOTE (Shawn @ Dec 21, 01:55 PM) | ||
Since I started hosting BrainMeta on local servers, I have not set up the mail server, which is why you do not receive email updates to topics you're subscribed to. Let me see what I can do this Xmas break with fixing some of the forum issues. |
Thank you a lot Shawn. Many thanks indeed.
| QUOTE (Enki @ Dec 21, 01:34 PM) |
| But some people in Europe are planing to change everything. Unfortunately half knowledge sometimes are much dangerous than their absence. |
Elaborate on this, please, Enki
| QUOTE (Enki @ Dec 21, 03:00 PM) |
| I agree Rick that many ideas about the God "are not in an ontologically valid category" If they get corrected all will change! Everything will change... |
I think you are missing the philosophical point. In the philosophy "idealism," ideas are thought to have independent existence. This is very easy to disprove. As a consequence, no ideas have independent existence.
Take for example the idea of the Pythagorean theorem. This theorem is proven true, but every schoolboy who learns it has to reconstruct it for himself in his own mind or he doesn't understand it. One can't just tap into some mysterious reservoir of existing ideas. Quoting your source, "it's hard work." Everyone who learns or understands the theorem of Pythagoras must construct it anew.
"In the same way, in my humble opinion such false categories of thinking as “idealism” and “materialism” are of the same kind and have had more dramatic effect than (as) Aristotelian “errors”."
I'm not sure any one person has the right to class beliefs as false even to themselves, once you accept something as false your instantly biased to any reality that include those philosophies. As for some people in Europe, I've seen evidence from around the internet that many people in Europe, America, South America, Canada, Australia, China Japan are determined to change things, because as hard as it may seem some of us don't want to have to live other peoples wars, other peoples ideas of true and false, other peoples bias's. No one needs to be ready to try to make a better world, or try to live a better life. Simply by letting go of what separates us we'll see what unites us and from there true knowledge can grow.
People are people, for the moment we have too many classes of people to even begin addressing but fundamentally everyone is looking for the same thing. Everyone wants simply to understand the reason for it all. I don't think it matters if one chooses to pursue this through God, Science, man or beast; the external representation doesn't matter because when you understand the pieces finally fit inside, and your picture comes together.
I love and support everyone’s point of view because I don't see them as being in conflict with my own; I see them as explaining what I believe in the way that they believe in most. I'm an advocate of people setting their own limits and not believing so freely what they've been told.
We've known cigarettes could kill for decades yet we still buy them, we know most pharmaceuticals we take work by destroying the disease hopefully before they kill us.
We put our faith in exclusive methods and as a result change takes more time and causes more conflict.
For change to happen two sides have to face of and face off until one of them has been subdued, we need a society where we realize that we are all working towards a common goal, and start laying a framework for a world without borders. Nationalism is another form of bigotry, no one country is better than the other, nor is any one person better than another.
I hope I haven't come across as argumentative but I see allot of wasted potential on people fighting over a name for something we don't really know yet, I guarantee if all of the people in this forum got together dropped all preconceptions and really tried to figure it out we could make more progress than Science has in years if only in understanding, all of you have such beautiful light in you, all of you hold one piece of the puzzle together we all hold the key.
I'm not sure any one person has the right to class beliefs as false even to themselves, once you accept something as false your instantly biased to any reality that include those philosophies. As for some people in Europe, I've seen evidence from around the internet that many people in Europe, America, South America, Canada, Australia, China Japan are determined to change things, because as hard as it may seem some of us don't want to have to live other peoples wars, other peoples ideas of true and false, other peoples bias's. No one needs to be ready to try to make a better world, or try to live a better life. Simply by letting go of what separates us we'll see what unites us and from there true knowledge can grow.
People are people, for the moment we have too many classes of people to even begin addressing but fundamentally everyone is looking for the same thing. Everyone wants simply to understand the reason for it all. I don't think it matters if one chooses to pursue this through God, Science, man or beast; the external representation doesn't matter because when you understand the pieces finally fit inside, and your picture comes together.
I love and support everyone’s point of view because I don't see them as being in conflict with my own; I see them as explaining what I believe in the way that they believe in most. I'm an advocate of people setting their own limits and not believing so freely what they've been told.
We've known cigarettes could kill for decades yet we still buy them, we know most pharmaceuticals we take work by destroying the disease hopefully before they kill us.
We put our faith in exclusive methods and as a result change takes more time and causes more conflict.
For change to happen two sides have to face of and face off until one of them has been subdued, we need a society where we realize that we are all working towards a common goal, and start laying a framework for a world without borders. Nationalism is another form of bigotry, no one country is better than the other, nor is any one person better than another.
I hope I haven't come across as argumentative but I see allot of wasted potential on people fighting over a name for something we don't really know yet, I guarantee if all of the people in this forum got together dropped all preconceptions and really tried to figure it out we could make more progress than Science has in years if only in understanding, all of you have such beautiful light in you, all of you hold one piece of the puzzle together we all hold the key.
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 21, 02:09 PM) | ||
I think you are missing the philosophical point. In the philosophy "idealism," ideas are thought to have independent existence. This is very easy to disprove. As a consequence, no ideas have independent existence. Take for example the idea of the Pythagorean theorem. This theorem is proven true, but every schoolboy who learns it has to reconstruct it for himself in his own mind or he doesn't understand it. One can't just tap into some mysterious reservoir of existing ideas. Quoting your source, "it's hard work." Everyone who learns or understands the theorem of Pythagoras must construct it anew. |
Philosophical categories are a matter of change, philosophy is needed to improve our perception of the reality. There are many categories in philosophy which have been discarded as they were leading people astray. Sir Francis Bacon crushed Aristotelian approach, and the Plutonian, I think, must be corrected as well.
Besides I strongly disagree with such approach to the problem. As far as you know Descartes was speaking about inborn ideas. Definitely, if to percept what he said directly, then on the first sight his idea can be considered as quite wrong. But let us look at that from other point of view. Let us look at the problem from Cybernetic Point of View and use Percolation as a key concept to trace ideas percolation. Definitely Descartes have noted some phenomenon, some very specific phenomenon which he ventured to explain via concept of Inborn Ideas as he could not explain what he noted otherwise.
Idea can percolated in quite many ways.
If you remember, here I introduced an idea related with the Words Matrixes.
The percolation process may, e.g. pass in the following way: something gets into brain, then it grows, then the Cluster can Tune something. When the tuning is established or slowly functions the percolation processes.
We cannot argue over that. It must be studies in laboratory. It is not a philosophic object of discussions it is an object of scientific discussion. I am not saying that it is so. I just say that the Dogmatic approach may damage free thinking. I think I brought an excellent example related with Aristotle. Who knows understands.
I agree about the evil of dogmatism. My philosophy, while considering those who went before, contains many original elements. For more on my approach, see
http://teamster.usc.edu/~fixture/Robotics/...ophy/philo.html
http://teamster.usc.edu/~fixture/Robotics/...ophy/philo.html
| QUOTE (Besus @ Dec 21, 02:10 PM) |
| "In the same way, in my humble opinion such false categories of thinking as �idealism� and �materialism� are of the same kind and have had more dramatic effect than (as) Aristotelian �errors�." I'm not sure any one person has the right to class beliefs as false even to themselves, once you accept something as false your instantly biased to any reality that include those philosophies. As for some people in Europe, I've seen evidence from around the internet that many people in Europe, America, South America, Canada, Australia, China Japan are determined to change things, because as hard as it may seem some of us don't want to have to live other peoples wars, other peoples ideas of true and false, other peoples bias's. No one needs to be ready to try to make a better world, or try to live a better life. Simply by letting go of what separates us we'll see what unites us and from there true knowledge can grow. *** I hope I haven't come across as argumentative but I see allot of wasted potential on people fighting over a name for something we don't really know yet, I guarantee if all of the people in this forum got together dropped all preconceptions and really tried to figure it out we could make more progress than Science has in years if only in understanding, all of you have such beautiful light in you, all of you hold one piece of the puzzle together we all hold the key. |
For me the following is clear:
1) It is extremely dangerous to play with the Categories. Those who change them (or play with them) via systematic chain of interrelated movies, books etc do not understand that the outcome may be quite different than the one they do expect. E.g. the usage of word "Abracadabra" in the context it is used in the Harry Potter 4 may cause VERY serious problems...
2) The concept of God is not simple, it cannot be simplifies. I think the very word �God� must be positioned itself. A set of words should be created to position the very word God.
3) People who use simplified categories of thinking loose the Freedom of Will and become slaves of those categories. Sometimes those categories can be intentionally invented. The consequences can be extremely dramatic: Communism, Nazism, the Terrorism.
You think why the Catholic church was so vehemently straggling against heresy in the Middle Ages? There were people who knew the real power of the Words. Now those dark days are off. Thanks to God.
But there is another problem: Words , Phrases' Garbage, too many people, too many nations that accumulate Words Garbage and spread them all around the world. The percolations which were impossible centuries and thousand years ago may happen Randomly. I think that that is very dangerous. If to joke, I may say that such Random Noise may rise the Titans�
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 21, 02:31 PM) |
| I agree about the evil of dogmatism. My philosophy, while considering those who went before, contains many original elements. For more on my approach, see http://teamster.usc.edu/~fixture/Robotics/...ophy/philo.html |
Thank you for the link, I will read it carefully and will write back with comments.
Be sure to read all the linked footnotes. Some of the best stuff is in them.
| QUOTE (Rick @ Dec 21, 02:56 PM) |
| Be sure to read all the linked footnotes. Some of the best stuff is in them. |
I was fearing that I cannot get to the reference but that works. I will read all of them. Very interesting. It is night here. I will read all during the comming days. Thank you again for the link.
I agree with you completely Enki, the world has seen to many problems from those seeking power, which is why as a people we need to start building the framework for a world where it's no longer required, a world where the truth has been refined to the point any man woman or child can understand it.
Our problems stem from a lack of understanding of ourselves in relation to nature, most peoples ignorance of true mathematics, symbolism and metaphor, the way to treat the problem is not to suppress the content but to find a way to translate it so that other people may find the path to understanding for themselves.
The suppression of knowledge will only ignite the fire even more within those who seek, and nothing can remain hidden forever and the only thing suppression will do is lend more credence to the illusion of power. It is man's responsibility to ensure everyone has access not only to the information but the correct framework in which it is used so they can be free to draw their own conclusions. An example of this would be the Vatican Library holding documentation back which would lead to a better understanding of our beliefs origins.
"People who use simplified categories of thinking loose the Freedom of Will and become slaves of those categories." there have also been those who have tried to use it for great good, try Jesus, Gandhi, Einstein, and the mighty Homer Simpson.
Simplicity is the best way to introduce an idea to people, because once they are aware of it and are interested in it they will educate themselves, or follow the metaphorical path.
Understanding cannot be gauged in terms of garbage or noise because it forms a part of understanding for another person, for another set of circumstances that we haven't experienced; another life we will never know and I always try to look past that.
The words people use like in magick are of no value what so ever, their value is the vibrations they raise and the associations they have to the person, because someone thinks a car is called a transmobulator doesn't mean I can't teach them to drive. All it means is I have the chance to learn how this person, this unique point of view interprets the world. The challenge is mine to understand, so that I better myself as a person, so that I see the world from one more point of view.
The Catholic church was ruthless with heresy for a number of reasons, the first being to eliminate traces of mans true origins so they could control people. They wanted people to see them as the only way to salvation because then they could impose any ideals on them they wished.
Through a heavily edited version of the “Bible” the word of God was tailor made to fit man’s agenda, justified to fit his limitations and perpetuated initially through terror. Over generations we began to accept these beliefs as our own, and perpetuate them this time of our own free will.
So we live under these ideals for a few thousand years, and they’ve become so ingrained in us that we define ourselves by its ideals, the ideals we see everywhere reflected to some degree by everyone. Our reality has become so dependant on these ideals that people will actually kill other people to defend them, and I’m sorry if I’m the only person this seems ridiculous to.
Our problems stem from a lack of understanding of ourselves in relation to nature, most peoples ignorance of true mathematics, symbolism and metaphor, the way to treat the problem is not to suppress the content but to find a way to translate it so that other people may find the path to understanding for themselves.
The suppression of knowledge will only ignite the fire even more within those who seek, and nothing can remain hidden forever and the only thing suppression will do is lend more credence to the illusion of power. It is man's responsibility to ensure everyone has access not only to the information but the correct framework in which it is used so they can be free to draw their own conclusions. An example of this would be the Vatican Library holding documentation back which would lead to a better understanding of our beliefs origins.
"People who use simplified categories of thinking loose the Freedom of Will and become slaves of those categories." there have also been those who have tried to use it for great good, try Jesus, Gandhi, Einstein, and the mighty Homer Simpson.
Simplicity is the best way to introduce an idea to people, because once they are aware of it and are interested in it they will educate themselves, or follow the metaphorical path.
Understanding cannot be gauged in terms of garbage or noise because it forms a part of understanding for another person, for another set of circumstances that we haven't experienced; another life we will never know and I always try to look past that.
The words people use like in magick are of no value what so ever, their value is the vibrations they raise and the associations they have to the person, because someone thinks a car is called a transmobulator doesn't mean I can't teach them to drive. All it means is I have the chance to learn how this person, this unique point of view interprets the world. The challenge is mine to understand, so that I better myself as a person, so that I see the world from one more point of view.
The Catholic church was ruthless with heresy for a number of reasons, the first being to eliminate traces of mans true origins so they could control people. They wanted people to see them as the only way to salvation because then they could impose any ideals on them they wished.
Through a heavily edited version of the “Bible” the word of God was tailor made to fit man’s agenda, justified to fit his limitations and perpetuated initially through terror. Over generations we began to accept these beliefs as our own, and perpetuate them this time of our own free will.
So we live under these ideals for a few thousand years, and they’ve become so ingrained in us that we define ourselves by its ideals, the ideals we see everywhere reflected to some degree by everyone. Our reality has become so dependant on these ideals that people will actually kill other people to defend them, and I’m sorry if I’m the only person this seems ridiculous to.
| QUOTE (Enki @ Dec 21, 02:46 PM) |
| A set of words should be created to position the very word God. There were people who knew the real power of the Words. Now those dark days are off. Thanks to God. But there is another problem: Words , Phrases' Garbage, too many people, too many nations that accumulate Words Garbage and spread them all around the world. The percolations which were impossible centuries and thousand years ago may happen Randomly. I think that that is very dangerous. If to joke, I may say that such Random Noise may rise the Titans� |
This is a fortunate coincidence for me, Enki, as my attention is presently focused on this subject of the "Word". And more specifically, the power of the Word. Explain yourself a little better, if you please...
Dear Rick,
I am sorry that was not responding for a long period of time, I have read the site and have some ideas related with Monadology of Leibnitz, Modes of Spinoza, Inborn ideas of Descartes and Pascal�s dream and related. I think I do have something to say about that.
I am a little bit absorbed here in too worldly matters but will find time and will discuss this interesting matter soon. I am sorry for the delay.
Dear Shawn,
You upgraded the forum, excellent! My controls section is now working, now I can track my tail. Thank you a lot for your efforts.
This is a fortunate coincidence for me, Enki, as my attention is presently focused on this subject of the "Word". And more specifically, the power of the Word. Explain yourself a little better, if you please...
I do like coincidences, but will you be so kind to explain what exactly you are interested in? I am not an expert in the words I am just Enki.
I am sorry that was not responding for a long period of time, I have read the site and have some ideas related with Monadology of Leibnitz, Modes of Spinoza, Inborn ideas of Descartes and Pascal�s dream and related. I think I do have something to say about that.
I am a little bit absorbed here in too worldly matters but will find time and will discuss this interesting matter soon. I am sorry for the delay.
Dear Shawn,
You upgraded the forum, excellent! My controls section is now working, now I can track my tail. Thank you a lot for your efforts.
QUOTE(code buttons @ Dec 21, 07:29 PM) 
This is a fortunate coincidence for me, Enki, as my attention is presently focused on this subject of the "Word". And more specifically, the power of the Word. Explain yourself a little better, if you please...
I do like coincidences, but will you be so kind to explain what exactly you are interested in? I am not an expert in the words I am just Enki.
QUOTE(Besus @ Dec 21, 03:30 PM)
The suppression of knowledge will only ignite the fire even more within those who seek, and nothing can remain hidden forever and the only thing suppression will do is lend more credence to the illusion of power. It is man's responsibility to ensure everyone has access not only to the information but the correct framework in which it is used so they can be free to draw their own conclusions. An example of this would be the Vatican Library holding documentation back which would lead to a better understanding of our beliefs origins.
"People who use simplified categories of thinking loose the Freedom of Will and become slaves of those categories." there have also been those who have tried to use it for great good, try Jesus, Gandhi, Einstein, and the mighty Homer Simpson.
Simplicity is the best way to introduce an idea to people, because once they are aware of it and are interested in it they will educate themselves, or follow the metaphorical path.
The matters related with the Catholic Church span a great segment and it will take centuries to discuss it. As far as I know an interesting Evangel (probably the fifth one) will reemerge soon, inclining Vatican to open some of its archives as a counter-actions. We shall see what will happen.
Too much simplification contains great danger it is like coding, one who uses proverbs to explain something actually is making linear coding of human brain, the consequences can be dramatic. E.g. look at Islam, it developed into something really very dangerous as simplified concepts planted into brains of sexually exasperated youths yielded horrific results.
The other thing if you take a complex idea and present it in a form of a stricture of interrelated clusters, thus helping a man Level by Level to pass to the understanding of very complex concepts. Such architecture of human brain may help to develop a marvelous temple rather than a bunker of garbage or dig a pit of illusions.
In contrary a proverb just masks the reality.
The matter is that there is nothing better than truth, but truth should be known only by those who can correctly understand it, as under the same collection of words expressing an idea or knowledge or information different people understand different things due to wrong reflections.
QUOTE(Rick @ Dec 19, 01:13 PM)
....God is a set of ideas constructed by people. Each person's idea of God is unique. Some of these ideas get written down and promulgated as religion. As an idea, God has no existence in the ontological sense, just as no idea "exists." The ideas (in the Platonic sense) are all constructed by human minds and sometimes recorded in books or on computer disks. When we read about an idea, we reconstruct it in our own mind. This philosophy, that ideas don't have existence, is sometimes called materialism.
Recently, I read the words of a Muslim scholar. He pointed out that it improper for writers in English to say: Muslims believe in Allah. It gives the impression that Muslims believe in a different god called, 'Allah'--one who differs from the god of Christians, Jews, etc. 'Allah' simply means "the God"--the One and only power, whatever. Apropos to this, I find the following site quite interesting:
NINETY NINE MUSLIM NAMES FOR GOD
http://wahiduddin.net/words/wazifa.htm
=============================
GOD, God, god, goodbye, good
Interestingly, scholars agree that, "the exact history of the word God is unknown. The word God is a relatively new European invention, which was never used in any of the ancient Judaeo-Christian scripture manuscripts that were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or Latin."
http://wahiduddin.net/words/name_god.htm
Good! This leaves things wide open for us folk-etymologists and for those who feel we need some new words here. I now feel comfortable with using GOD, G-D, G-d, and g-d and giving them the meanig I want.
IMO, GOD symbolizes all the is good in all that is; all that is open to truth, beauty,faith, hope and love, and all that is dedicated to the promotion of justice, peace and the social good of our globe and all who live upon it.
G-D includes the material universe, which science reveals to us, more and more of every day; the mystery of it all, which we do not understand, yet, and the infinite, the eternal and the immaterial into which our universe is expanding. I am always willing to think of G-d as being in the whole human family, while experiencing g-d, as personal consciousness, spirit, within myself and others.
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 15, 11:09 AM)
QUOTE(Rick @ Dec 19, 01:13 PM)
....God is a set of ideas constructed by people. Each person's idea of God is unique. Some of these ideas get written down and promulgated as religion. As an idea, God has no existence in the ontological sense, just as no idea "exists." The ideas (in the Platonic sense) are all constructed by human minds and sometimes recorded in books or on computer disks. When we read about an idea, we reconstruct it in our own mind. This philosophy, that ideas don't have existence, is sometimes called materialism.
No. Things that exist include trees, rocks, cars, stars, and brains. Sherlock Holmes and God do not exist. They are fictions.
What makes you so sure this isnt fiction as well? How do you know your not in a coma in some hospital bed? Their are so many possibilities about what reality even is yet you automatically focus to one view.. Dont forget about perspective and perception, what if you had halucinations of something and no one else could see them, or what if everyon else was having the hallucination and you were the only one who was clear headed? What defines what is and what isnt should not be simply subjected to the opinons of the masses, since when are the masses right anyways? Most are sheep they follow the ideas of a few, so the general view is not one of millions of people but of a few who influence well enough to pass their views on. Throughout history the masses have claimed everything from the earth being flat to women being bad luck at sea, are they right? what makes them wrong? what makes your opinion more valid than theirs? if it is more valid then why do you live in a hiecharical society in which opinions are more and less valid? You need to look at things from someone elses point of view and then your own, I mean truely see things the way they see and then maybe you will understand what I mean by the truth is a opinion, we all have our own opinions and thus our own truths.
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Feb 15, 02:11 PM)
the truth is a opinion, we all have our own opinions and thus our own truths.
If I place an apple upon a table so that 10 people can view it, they will all see that apple from a different perspective.
The Truth is that there is one apple and there are 10 versions of what that apple looks like. Each of those versions is also the Truth from where they see thje apple. (both statements subject to an unsubstantialable proviso that human eyesight allows a True internal image of what Truly exists externally from the human).
QUOTE(Guest_rhymer_* @ Feb 15, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Feb 15, 02:11 PM)
the truth is a opinion, we all have our own opinions and thus our own truths.
If I place an apple upon a table so that 10 people can view it, they will all see that apple from a different perspective.
The Truth is that there is one apple and there are 10 versions of what that apple looks like. Each of those versions is also the Truth from where they see thje apple. (both statements subject to an unsubstantialable proviso that human eyesight allows a True internal image of what Truly exists externally from the human).
That is not Truth. That is your belief. Nothing more unless you can convincingly prove it.
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Feb 15, 02:11 PM)
the truth is a opinion, we all have our own opinions and thus our own truths.
IMHO, your opinion is acceptable to me. And here is LD's opinion of Max242's opinion of the apple illustrationQUOTE
That is not Truth. That is your belief. Nothing more unless you can convincingly prove it.
Or am I getting confused? 
By the way, at what point does an opinion, or a belief, become a truth?
Lindsay, perhaps there is no truth unless you define direct experience as truth. Perhaps what people typically call 'truth' is just composed of agreed upon conventions. Truth is a vast web of agreed on conventions. To "prove" one part of the web is true, you have to assume other parts of the web as true. But this web of truth floats in air, like those castles.
LD: I agree with the points you make. This is why I say to people: If you will agree to define and describe for me what it is you conceive with your mind and perceive with your senses, when you use the word 'God', I will then be better able to tell you whether or not I think we are reading from the same page.
To indicate that I have moved away from the traditional god-paradigm in which I was raised, I use the special symbol, G�D. In my opinion, there is no being-like god, or God, who can be, in anyway, objectified, even mentally. At the philosophic level, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and perhaps other theologies--certainly at the university level--agree on this.
Does G�D exist?
To the extent that existence exists, yes. But, like science even, I leave lots of room for mystery. I can imagine that there is something beyond the understanding of my senses, but I wouldn't dare try to explain what it is. Meanwhile, to my own satisfaction, I prove the "truth" and "reality" of G�D. Unless it is an illusion, I experience the physcial cosmos as part of G�D. In other words, I know G�D, in part.
BTW, what led you to your login name?
To indicate that I have moved away from the traditional god-paradigm in which I was raised, I use the special symbol, G�D. In my opinion, there is no being-like god, or God, who can be, in anyway, objectified, even mentally. At the philosophic level, Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, and perhaps other theologies--certainly at the university level--agree on this.
Does G�D exist?
To the extent that existence exists, yes. But, like science even, I leave lots of room for mystery. I can imagine that there is something beyond the understanding of my senses, but I wouldn't dare try to explain what it is. Meanwhile, to my own satisfaction, I prove the "truth" and "reality" of G�D. Unless it is an illusion, I experience the physcial cosmos as part of G�D. In other words, I know G�D, in part.
BTW, what led you to your login name?
QUOTE
That is not Truth. That is your belief. Nothing more unless you can convincingly prove it.
YES EXACTLY, ah nice to see someone understands, but instead of belief I would put opinion. The first two sentences are exactly what im talking about, the last I have to argue with. How one proves something is based off of "proof"' and proof is defined by society, and theirfore proof in itself is determined by a general concencious of people, since it is not nessecarily "true" that the general concencious is always right, it is a battle of who can be the most convincing. However for those of you who know about influence, people can be influenced to agree with opinions that are not nessecarily the best idea but rather the idea from the one who is most convincing and theirfore since... Proof is based off of a general concencouss (which idea seems the most "true" to most people) and since the general public is highly influencable and most of us seem to agree that people are usually sheep (this is a example of a general concencouss) and since people are sheep they are influenced by those who wish for their ideas to be considered to have the most "proof" and theirfore be the most "true". Thus you can now see that in the heat of debate proof's revelancy and validity are determined by the opinions of people, since the opinions of people determine whether or not the "proof" is valid and since proof is used to determine "truth" then ultimatly truth is based off of the opinions and ideas of people.
Opinion - Somone puts forth a idea and proof in which they believe that this proof is valid
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Debate - People debate whether or not a persons proof is valid
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Proof - If the proof is determined valid then it will be considered proof by the general public
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Debate - This proof is then used to debate the validity of a claim (whether or not a idea is true)
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Truth - It is then the ultimate outcome whether or not something is determined true, if so this will be considered true by the general public
QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 14, 11:28 PM)
I do like coincidences, but will you be so kind to explain what exactly you are interested in? I am not an expert in the words I am just Enki.
Dear Enki:
First of all, your posts on this website are such a refreshing change from the routine. Your choice of words are quite enjoyable to read. Going back to my question, about the power of certain words the concept of the word itself. There is really no more questions to ask from my part. As I read somre of your posts from the past, my questions were answered in your posts about word matrix. I think that there might be a lot more to say about the subject, I just don't know where to look. These things about something as simple as the words within a poem to mean something more than just the meaning of the poem... Fragmentation and de-fragmantation of a meaning a lot more powerfull than the apparent meaning of the poem. This is fascinating stuff. I just wish I could read more about the subject. Any suggestions? As for the idea of memes, I think that the subject will eventually again become relevant. Who knows!
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 15, 09:09 PM)
BTW, what led you to your login name?
I frequently have lucid (clear, brilliant, vivid) dreams. I have had dreams within dreams within dreams. I have become aware that I was dreaming on multiple occasions in my dreams, and knowing that I was dreaming, I was able to do anything in my imagination, like flying up into the starry night sky at will, and to distant planets. I have even died on several occasions in my dreams; I did not wake up when I died, but rather became transported to a different dream sequence. If I am aware of doing something in my dreams, I will wake up wanting to do that thing, sort of like dreaming is preparation for the upcoming day. And so the name was chosen because it has significance to me.
QUOTE(code buttons @ Feb 16, 10:32 PM)
QUOTE(Enki @ Feb 14, 11:28 PM)
I do like coincidences, but will you be so kind to explain what exactly you are interested in? I am not an expert in the words I am just Enki.
Dear Enki:
First of all, your posts on this website are such a refreshing change from the routine. Your choice of words are quite enjoyable to read. Going back to my question, about the power of certain words the concept of the word itself. There is really no more questions to ask from my part. As I read somre of your posts from the past, my questions were answered in your posts about word matrix. I think that there might be a lot more to say about the subject, I just don't know where to look. These things about something as simple as the words within a poem to mean something more than just the meaning of the poem... Fragmentation and de-fragmantation of a meaning a lot more powerfull than the apparent meaning of the poem. This is fascinating stuff. I just wish I could read more about the subject. Any suggestions? As for the idea of memes, I think that the subject will eventually again become relevant. Who knows!
I am happy that I could impart happiness to people by offering enjoyable set of words.
As far as I know the subject does not have references, it implies to a spoken tradition (so to say, or to something else). Unfortunately I cannot suggest any source but my humble murmuring spring of non-referable ideas and pure lie.
Theory and practice differs much.
We did not discuss with Rick Descartes's idea related with the Inborn Ideas. I guess that the WM idea has quite specific applications related with the �tuning� process I was ruminating above.
Let me bring along a funny structure containing some sort of very primitive WM:
[a funny fantasy based on lie exclusively for N****]
By the way, I heard a rumor that some gentlemen are projecting to meet in Languedoc, France and to officially reopen the Order. I heard that they have located the talking head in the S*******a old chapel (I mean the head of the android from the Star Wars which constantly falls down), so they have what to show up to the world. Moreover, I have heard that some representatives of the Spencer family may make a special declaration about the true roots of their very old family ( PS=Princes of Spencers). In view of that it will fantastically explain the dramatic events related with Lady Diana: if she married Dodi Al-Fayed (I heard he could claim relative relations with the Prophet M.) then their child could become the King of the Kings. As you know that plan of some Arabian wizards did not work.
Now as Prince William is the official hair of the British crown, then the official declaration of a representative form the Spencer family about the true roots of their very old family may significantly change the situation on our planet, especially after demonstration of one interesting Movie worldwide.
[the end of the funny fantasy based on lie]
Funny is not it? Few words can change quite many things in human brain, is not it?
Now imagine how many interesting tales can be written in such a manner by the Great Old Demon (or Democrate).
Now imagine that an interesting and funny tale can be invented about the Philosophic Stone in many, many details as well.
Unfortunately it is not possible to earn money on that tales.
Unfortunately it is not possible to earn money on that tales.
What is God ?
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
Can we know God ?
How can we know God ?
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
Can we know God ?
How can we know God ?
QUOTE(Guest @ Jul 08, 06:27 AM)
What is God ?
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
Can we know God ?
How can we know God ?
QUOTE
What is God ?
God is a being intellectually much more clever than humans. God lives in the Universe. His nature scientifically is not well studied yet. Some evidences incline people to make a hypothetical supposition that He exists. It may also turn out that there exist many other, less clever, beings unknown to the public science, as well.
QUOTE
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
Those who know can answer, those who do not know stay in doubts.
QUOTE
Can we know God ?
I think it is possible.
QUOTE
How can we know God ?
Experimentally. The experiment is the best criteria of truth. Nullius in Verba is the motto of the Royal Society; very good motto. You should make scientific experiments. Find a person who will fund that research and do it. I am ready to consult the project on the base of anonymity (for some payment, and if scientific papers will be published by the Project team I want to be a co-author under name Enki [the affiliation will be provided]).
QUOTE
What is God ?
QUOTE
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
QUOTE
Can we know God ?
QUOTE
How can we know God ?
Stop containing yourself in the answers that are followed by questions.
QUOTE(Guest @ Jul 08, 06:27 AM)
What is God ?
Can we answer this question without knowing God ?
Can we know God ?
How can we know God ?
Guest (Which one? From where?) Here is a revised version of what I said to Lucid_Dream, above: To all people I say, if you will agree to define and describe for me what it is you conceive with your mind and perceive with your senses, when you use the word 'God', I will then be better able to tell you whether or not I think we are reading from the same page.
WHY I USE A SPECIAL WAY OF WRITING THE DIVINE NAME--G�D:
========================================================
I use G�D so as to include all religions, all the sciences and all the arts; and to indicate that I have moved away from the traditional god-paradigm--the one in which I was raised, and was asked to believe in and pray to a person-like God.
The G stands for the moral goodness and core values possible in life, and basic to all the great religions; � stands for the order found in all of nature, which is governed by the laws of science and mathematics. Break the laws of science and there are consequences, often even deadly ones. D stand for the design and beauty found in nature, and the destiny towards which all life seems to be moving.
In my opinion, there is no being-like god, or God, who can be, in anyway, objectified, even mentally. It seems to mean that, at the well-educated and philosophic levels of life, most Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and perhaps others --certainly at the university level—agree.
Does G�D exist?
To the extent that existence exists, yes. But, in saying this, I leave lots of room for mystery, as do most creative scientists such as Dr. Seth Lloyd, professor of engineering and physics at MIT. He is not afraid to talk about the “mystery of God” and that, even though he knows how to do certain things with atoms and particles, in no way does he understand the how and why of many things. There seems to be more to total, universal and all-encompassing existence than we human beings are capable of explaining. I know that I wouldn't dare try to explain what it is all about. Meanwhile, to my own satisfaction, I prove the "truth" and "reality" of G�D in what I experience. Unless it is an illusion, I experience the physical cosmos as part of G�D. In other words, I know G�D, in part.
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