This is NOT a Christian bash session. But if that's what you want to do then go right ahead.

This is an honest dialogue between a Christian, (my friend.) and a non-Christian, (myself.) I want to simply be known as a non-Christian because that is the perspective that I choose take in order that I can represent objectivity. And that is the stance I take when discussing philosophy, religion, ect.

Let me set it up. This entire post works under this premise: If the only way to reconcile relationships is through communication, then having a dialogue is essential to the matter.

The dialoge started a couple of months ago. My friend didn't want to use a message board for a respectable reason. And this is all that was saved. You are stating in the middle of a conversation. I think it was apropriate to let my friend have the last word.

First understand that I think the Church can be a good environment for people. Certainly none hold up to their ideals.

that metaphysical option above covers wide territory. I guess that's where I'm at, and yet I'm hesitant to vote for it because it can mean so many different things.

Could you tell me what exactly you meant by "First understand that I think the Church can be a good environment for people. Certainly none hold up to their ideals."

how about mystical as an option?

The posts you have included from your Christian friend demonstrate clearly why I find so much of the dogma and belief system utterly repugnant. Firstly there's the tone; there's a smugness, a patronising attitude about it which, had I been on the receiving end, I would have found very irritating. But this attitude is not confined to Christians; it seems to apply to the "True Believers" in all the major religions.
I perceive the Bible as a collection of myths, with neither more nor less veracity than the stories of Greek, Roman, Norse, Indian etc. pantheons. I don't like the concept of a purely male deity as creator of the universe; nor can i accept this omniscient being as my 'Father". If the god described is so loving, why on earth would he sacrifice his 'only begotten son' - and why does he continue to sacrifice so many human beings? But more importantly, why do we need this sacrifice? If we are children of god, then he created us to be human, fallible; and to have a fleshly nature, not to be christ-like. Why would you want to be 'a living sacrifice, a pure bride of Christ'. Should you not rather enjoy all aspects of your humanity, provided, of course, that you harm none?
All religions are about power and control by a male hierarchy. All religions have a nasty history of war and conquest. Logic and objectivity are the enemies of belief systems, be they religious, social or political. Which, no doubt, is why politicians and churchmen alike thrive on an ignorant uneducated populace.

See John 10:34.

Some 20 years or so ago, Oxford University queried 3000 people on whether or not they had ever had a mystical experience. An amazing 72% said they had; most had never talked about or discussed it with others, thinking that they would be perceived as being slightly off their rocker.
The subjects were evenly divided between Town and Gown (workers and students), the sexes, various ethnicities and religions. It was noticable that the respondents saw what they expected to see; i.e., Christians saw Christ, Muslims saw Allah. Although I was baptised, confirmed and married in the Anglican church, my own experience (which predated the Oxford enquiry by 10 years or so) had no anthropomorphic connotations, rather a sense of Absolute Power, continuing Its work of creation throughout Infinity and Eternity. Certainly, this was a life-changing event for me, but does not, I feel, invalidate the experience of others. Later research into comparative religions showed me that Taoism most closely approximates what I experienced, whereas organised monotheistic religions are too limited in their interpretation of deity.
Oh, I'd better add that I have never ingested a hallucinogenic drug in my life - and that includes alcohol.

I think the beliefs expressed in American churches is an outward way of how they want Americans to behave. They talk of converting others, which in turn, the converted become converters themselves. I'd say these are the highly committed individuals in Church.

If they would see that seperation of Church and State is necessary, Christians might realize that there is a dividing marker between the Christian world, and the secular. We are more than what we believe. The point of contact between outside the walls of the Church doesn't have to be pinned on the Christian community. Christians don't have to tell everyone what they believe so that they can give them some fabulously new idea, a salvation of sorts. They should be satisfied with what they have, which is each other.

If God is what they Christians say God is, then God would prefer if they would reach out, not to the cool kids in the high schools, not to rich people who can fund them for so called moral duties, (mission trips to Mexico,) but the people who have nothing.

I was at a Christmas party at a church in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. We were a bunch of white people, all middle class. The Christmas party was for these black children whose fathers were in prison. That's what I'm F**KING talking about! The salt of the earth, they really are what Jesus was talking about; the widows, the orphans, the imprisoned, sick, crippled. Now they're single mothers, and teenagers who have never felt love, about loving the marginalized by society, the trash we throw away because it's not pretty. Bullshit!

In order to fight a war the enemy must be dehumanized, or demonized. The opposing civilization must be seen as subhuman in order to attack. The American Indians were called savages. During the Second World War, German culture in America was suppressed. Unless you read a history book you'll never know that German Americans were very promonent in the American culture. Popular American patriotism destroyed it. They were a good peoples with good values in business, family, etc.

Society dehumanizes these lower classes. Christians should give them dignity again, give them something, a life worth living. That is Christian.

I'm an exile. I loved the Church, still do. I'm passionate about it. But I smoke. I don't believe there is a God. Who will let me be a part without my submitting to their violent attempts to make me into something other than I am?

The Buddhists, perhaps...?