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I have no intention whatsoever to prove to you that Joe can fly, in fact I don't even know if he really can. All I want to reach is to stop you from spreading your petty prejudices about things you don't really understand.

it sounds more like you want to believe joe can fly and you don't want to hear otherwise

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As Joe said, your opinion only has meaning to you. (Plus the rest of the herd you're in.) For beings who are inclined towards reality it's just talk.

well,...pbbtbtbttbtbbt to you too  

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it sounds more like you want to believe joe can fly and you don't want to hear otherwise

And what's wrong with that?

I don't care if you choose to be delusional,.. so long as you are not affecting me.  Dig a hole and pretend away!

8)

I had an opinion once.............

don't sell yourself short, Joe

you still have opinions, even if you deny them

8)

Ya think?
actually I have a completely different experience but you are welcome to enjoy yours.

thanks for telling me, I don't know what I'd do without you

Your sarcasm is so romantic..

it's all for you, babe

Dan, I think there's some misunderstanding going on. Before we can discuss that topic coherently we have to find a common base. That means we should first of all agree on the interpretation of 'flying' before we can go into the details. I have made a list of how a human might possibly fly, it's up to you now to choose upon which of these concepts we should focus in our discussion.

How humans might probably fly:
1. By moving at great speed, thus getting lifted by aerodynamic laws. Like one of the aviation pioneers of Germany put it over half a century ago: If you have a strong engine even a piano will fly.
2. By getting inflated with gaseous matter lighter than air, probably with the origin of the intestines. A way of floating similar to balloons and zeppelines.
3. By emitting very strong farts. Taking off like a rocket.4. By moving your arms rapidly. Trying to fly like a bird.
5. By antigravitation. Ascending majestically.6. By transforming the body into a yet unrecognized structure. Thus employing quantum laws, perhaps even string theories, that transcend the commonly known object formula F=m1*m2/r^2 (units recalibrated towards omission of G).

If you have further ideas of how humans would fly we can enter them also. The next step would be to make a testing series to find out how this works practically, on the other hand you might prefer a theoretic discussion only because I suspect that you'd pass out if you see someone perform the act of flying in front of you eyes.

I don't think the 'tests' are necessary, Num.  I GUARANTEE that people don't fly (unassisted), and if you can prove otherwise you can make $1,000,000 dollars.

1.  clearly nobody is going to 'fly' by running real fast and flapping their arms.  If you don't understand this, go try and see what happens.

2. nobody is going to bloat with helium to a volume of 100's of cubic meters.  

3.  although this image is funny, it is absurd to actually consider as a real possibility

4.  antigravitation would only be possible with a 'device' (and even that is highly dubious as a possibility)

5.  as for your amazing physical theories on how to fly (employing such words as 'quantum' and 'string'), all I can say is "Build it!" and I'll give you $1,000,000 for your idea

until such a time when magical faeries sprinkle us with faerie dust, people won't fly (unassisted)

You left out Divine power, what the bible says about a man being able to walk on water without breaking surface tension and sinking. Or there are other scientific studies, one done by Baird Spalding a scientist who studied the eastern masters and their abnormal abilities. I say abnormal only because what is taken for granted as normal is just what one knows as popular belief and experience.

Dan, thanks for taking me seriously. I really was worried whether my ideas have some practical value or not.

Still, I'm not so convinced about the antigravitation. Einstein said you only need to bend space a little, and there you go. And who knows on what level space is linked to the universal consciousness which I hope you don't doubt is the underlying essence of everything.

Also I'm curious about the other possibility. Do you really have $ 1.000.000 at your disposal? If yes, then I might perhaps find a better reason for you to give me them.

And I do know that there's the nagual which is a multi-purpose word for anything that is not in the tonal. Meaning, you don't need more than switching your consciousness from here to there, until you can fly.

All in all, it makes more sense to believe that you could fly, even if you can't, because if you disbelieve you will isolate yourself from any possibility of ever finding out.

(I was serious about the $ 1.000.000. It's not much, considered what is worth there, but it still is something to begin with.)

Joe:
I'm not a big fan of pretending that magic may be literally true just because I haven't stuck a probe up the magician's butt

Num:
the $1,000,000 would be a loan, but if I got an antigravitation device for it I would easily make jillions of dollars back.  However, www.randi.org does have the $1,000,000 immediately accessible to anybody who can prove 'paranormal' claims.  As for your argument about believing in the impossible as a psychological tool of opening one's worldview, I'm not totally against this.  However I think that such beliefs can easily lead from openness to delusion, quickly negating any benefit.

Yes, that's true. That's why I don't try to learn flying myself. I could fall off the window and break my neck.

Also I don't mind if there never will be a teacher who shows me flying. I'm not even waiting for one. In fact, flying isn't at all at my list of priorities.

But I wouldn't wanna pass out from repulsion of mind because of tags saying 'impossible' if someone should happen to fly in front of my very eyes. I would rather try to grasp my chance and find out how it works.

However, it's kind of a theoretical discussion we're doing here; I suppose there are more pending issues around.

But it still is funny to hear your wording:

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I GUARANTEE that people don't fly (unassisted)...

It sounds like you are God himself and have made all the little laws this universe so desperately needs to function.

I like to think of myself as well-informed

8)

there are alot of poston this one thingie magig

yea.. maybe they lke talking to eah other huh?

yeah

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no, you are not not-you which means that you are you I guess

I used to be me but then fought over myself for control of I.
So now I refuse to talk to myself without proper guidance from me.
Too bad I and me aren't speaking to myself anymore.

;D >:( 8)