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fotia
Greetings. I would like to re-program the subconcious aspect of my mind so I can have more control and focus in what I do. The most effective method I could think of was self-hypnosis. Please give me accounts of self-hypnosis so I can see if I was right about it being an effective method, and also [if possible] refer me to sites/books/give me instructions on how to perform self hypnosis. I think this will be a good way to become who I want to be and do what I aspire to do.
-Fotia
Unknown
I would suggest googling for NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, and see if that floats your boat.
Jasper
My advice is just to be yourself to find the real you as I can see you very clearly.....and never ask for anyones elses help to do this again without looking inside yourself first! Age dosen't matter didly squat, as we are all far too young to reason and much too old to dream?

LOve Jasper

lgking
This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://www.flfcanada.com where I am wriiting quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP, and a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. Sounds simple, but there are pitfalls, which, thank G-d, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time develop a basic understanding of our human nature--that is, the physical, mental and spiritual components of ouor human nature.
fotia
QUOTE(lgking @ Oct 31, 08:57 PM) *

This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://www.flfcanada.com where I am wriiting quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP, and a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. Sounds simple, but there are pitfalls, which, thank G-d, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time develop a basic understanding of our human nature--that is, the physical, mental and spiritual components of ouor human nature.


I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.
I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.
I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention.
lgking
[quote name='fotia' post='58754' date='Jan 31, 05:10 PM']
[quote name='lgking' post='40857' date='Oct 31, 08:57 PM']
This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?
=========================

Keep in mind that the following is a revision of the first post I made to Fotia.

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://www.flfcanada.com where I am writing quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. By the way, I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP. He was a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

WHAT IS SELF-HYPNOSIS?
Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. I call it PNEUMATHERAPY--healing the self, not hypnotherapy. Check out PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of the spirit--in a good dictionary and encyclopedia.

The term 'hypnosis', which comes from the Greek for sleep is, in my opinion, a misnomer. The goal, it seems to me, is not to have people fall asleep, it is to have them wake up, to become truly conscious of the power of the human spirit, the pneuma effect. Jesus, in the Gospel of John, chapter 3, Jesus speaks to Nicodemus and tells him how important it is to be "born of the Pneuma (Spirit). In chapter 4, he says to the Samaritan woman: "God is Spirit (Pneuma).
============================
Sounds simple? However, there are pitfalls, which, thank G-D, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time to develop a basic understanding of our human nature. That is, we need to understand that we are a complex combination of the physical, mental and spiritual components of our human nature. By taking the time to learn the art of willing good--loving, self, others and our universe--we can master integrating these three components.


Just a few minutes ago--as I write this, it is now about 9:30 PM, Toronto time, Wednesday, February 1, 2006--I was led to this section of this forum which I have not visited for some time. I noticed the following:

Fotian wrote: "I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.
I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.
I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention."

If you take note of this, please feel free to tell us the latest.
lgking
QUOTE(Jasper @ Oct 31, 04:18 PM) *

My advice is just to be yourself to find the real you as I can see you very clearly.....and never ask for anyones elses help to do this again without looking inside yourself first! Age dosen't matter didly squat, as we are all far too young to reason and much too old to dream? Love Jasper
I like a quote I heard recently. It goes like this: "Youth often make the mistake of thinking that intelligence is more important than experience. Old timers make the mistake of thinking that experience is more important than intelligence."

May I add: Intelligence and experience will both serve to help us reach our goal, and, meanwhile, have the wisdom to enjoy the journey, when we use our imaginations under the guidance of the highest good, love.


RevLGKing2
Flex, et al: I (Lindsay, using my sons's 'puter) am including this quote from SELF-HYPNOSIS--help a teen, because the kind of internal dialogue we have with ourselves very much affacts how we relate to others, personally. Self-hypnosis is all about what we say to ourselves.


[quote name='fotia' post='58754' date='Jan 31, 05:10 PM']
[quote name='lgking' post='40857' date='Oct 31, 08:57 PM']

This is the first time I have seen this thread, and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?
===============================

Keep in mind that the following is a revision of the first post I made to Fotia. Feel free to go back and check it out, for details.

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site where I am writing quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. By the way, I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP. He was a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

WHAT IS SELF-HYPNOSIS?
Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. I call it PNEUMATHERAPY--healing the self, not hypnotherapy. Check out PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of the spirit--in a good dictionary and encyclopedia.

The term 'hypnosis', which comes from the Greek for sleep is, in my opinion, a misnomer. The goal, it seems to me, is not to have people fall asleep, it is to have them wake up, to become truly conscious of the power of the human spirit, the pneuma effect. Jesus, in the Gospel of John, chapter 3, Jesus speaks to Nicodemus and tells him how important it is to be "born of the Pneuma (Spirit). In chapter 4, he says to the Samaritan woman: "God is Spirit (Pneuma).
============================
Sounds simple? However, there are pitfalls, which, thank G-D, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time to develop a basic understanding of our human nature. That is, we need to understand that we are a complex combination of the physical, mental and spiritual components of our human nature. By taking the time to learn the art of willing good--loving, self, others and our universe--we can master integrating these three components.


Just a few minutes ago--as I write this, it is now about 9:30 PM, Toronto time, Wednesday, February 1, 2006--I was led to this section of this forum which I have not visited for some time. I noticed the following:

Fotian wrote: "I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.

I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.


I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention."

If you take note of this, please feel free to tell us the latest."

simon
Meditate. Allow what comes up. Breath. Relax. Let it go.
Lindsay
Simon, tell us who you are, please.

You can do this in "Introduce Yourself". If you wish to remain anonymous, okay--But let us know if this is so, okay?--ME? I am always curious about people who post interesting posts. Don't be shy! Okay? smile.gif
maximus242
Sigh*

Okay since no one else seems to be helping you and since ive done about 500 hours of self-hypnosis, I am fairly well versed in the subject. Okay, need to know a couple of things

#1 Is this your first time being hypnotised?

#2 Give me examples of what commands and changes you want to make.

#3 Do you have a tape recorder or microphone on your computer?

Answer these three things and I will type up a script for you with instructions on what to do ect.

Ive done levels of hypnosis most people dont even know exist, like DHI and Hypnotically Induced Visual Hallucinations. Sub-conscious programming is a breeze to do, you will find the more you do self hypnosis, the easier it becomes. I would say the most useful programming is overcoming fears and forgetting past faliures, with those two things properly used - the results are quite phenominal.

NLP is OKAY, but it is washed down hypnosis at best, NLP is more pre-hypnosis than hypnosis. It prepares the subject and is used to examine the way they think - basically get inside their head. A very good book that does not use hypnosis is Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, its like ten bucks brand new and has been used by Olympic Athletes for decades.

If your looking to read about hypnosis, dont waste your time on those hypnosis for dummies, ect. Go to the University Library and read anything by Milton Erickson.

Whatever, answer the questions and il get a script written up for you. Im a bit busy and havent been online so it might be a day or two.
Lindsay
Max, interestingly, I met Maxwell Maltz, years ago, when he made a visit to Toronto. Naturally, I have his books and his wonderful taped course for children, which, IMO, should be used in all our schools.

I also have Jay Hayley's, SELECTED PAPERS OF Milton Erickson. I don't think ME, actually, ever wrote a book.

BTW, have you heard of CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS (1974) by W.S. Kroger?--The book, a very large and detailed volume, is the result of 30 years work in the field.

Kroger puts a lot of emphasis on the value of faith and spirituality as aids to inducing hypnosis. He points out that science-oriented clergy, especially ones with some psychological--and I would add, pneumatological--insight and training, can make good hypnotists, because people already tend to have faith in them.

By profession, Dr. Kroger was a gynecologist, in Chicago.

FOR THE RELIEF OF PAIN AND STRESS.
Just today, I had an opportunity to make practical use of what I call pneumatherapy--hypnosis without the hocus pocus--on my 15 year old granddaughter. Yesterday afternoon, she had all her wisdom teeth extracted. This morning, my son daughter-in-law asked me to help her get over it as she was having a lot of pain.

This morning, she was under a great deal of pain, with swelling in the jaw and neck. Only able to take liquids, she was also under a great deal of stress. I got to her house about 10:00 AM, I did one session with her, which took about twenty minutes. Following this, she had three periods of solid sleep, which I suggested she would.

This evening, she ate a full meal, at the supper hour. With the swelling gone, she has been comfortable, since then. Over the last while, she has been watching her favourite sit coms.

THE TECHNIQUE I USED around 10:30 AM
As she and others in the family already know about the nature and function of pneumatherapy, without much ado, I was able to go right ahead and use my favourite technique--colours:

All the colours are useful, but I usually begin with the primary colours--Red as metaphor of the soma component, or body; yellow, as a metaphor for the psyche, or mind, and blue as a metaphor for the spirit, or pneuma. In conjunction with the colours I used deep breathing.

Sometimes I use bright coloured cards.

However. based on an experiment I did on myself, recently--which I demonstrated to my GD, today--this time I used an incandescent light.

I told her: This is what works for me: With my eyes closed, gently, I hold a 40 watt light bulb--turned on, of course, close to my closed eyes.

The warm light passing through my eye lids make it appear that my brain is filled with the colour red, especially if I hold it close. Depending on where I focus the light--straight on, below, above, to the side, and how tightly I close my eyes, I can see, not just the primary colours, but all the colours of the rainbow. I am at the point where it seems I can see pixels.

The lamp I used, today, also has a rheostat on it. I found that colours will change depending on the brightness, or dimness, of the light. Moving it around in a circle, slow and/or fast, creates kaleidoscope effect.

When I gave my granddaughter the lamp to hold, it didn't take long for her to get the same effect I did. This also had the positive results of helping her feel that she was not just a subject, but and active participant in her own healing.

RED--physicality
As she held the lamp, I asked her: Can you see the red colour?

When she responded, yes, I said: Red, as I understand it, is the symbol for physical energy, strength and power--I call it the somatological factor--and this colour, filling the brain and radiating to your heart and lungs and throughout you whole circulatory system--veins and arteries-- will, automatically, help you to breathe deeply and evenly.

This will, automatically, increase the ability of your lungs, in cooperation with you heart, to absorb more and more life-giving and healing oxygen which will go, especially, to the area of your body needing healing. And you know where that area is. [I gave her time to let this sink in]

I told her: Because I know you love playing soccer, this will help you in the game. I want you to see yourself on the soccer-field. [I paused and asked her to confirm to me that this was happening]

Your oxygen-rich blood-stream is naturally making you strong all over. This will help you be a stronger and faster soccer player. As I count you are going to have three minutes of exciting play and you will breathe deeper and deeper. Start by breathing taking in a gentle breath....Now, breath out, out, out, out, as far as you can...until you really want to take a deep breath. Now you are ready for some exciting play: One minute--I paused--Two minutes--paused--Three minutes--paused. [Look, you scored! Just listen to the cheers!!!]

Now, pause, walk off the field. It is time for you to take a rest on the bench.

YELLOW--mentality
As you rest, pay attention to the light you used for the first exercise. This time, hold the light so that you can see the colour, yellow. Yellow is the symbol for information, knowledge, mental alertness and acuity. I call yellow the symbol for the psychological component. Your whole brain area is filled with light.
[Take time to let this sink in.]

This light, now filling your brain, is radiating throughout your whole nervous system. This just being aware of where you are and what is going on around you will also help you be a better soccer player. But it will also make you a better listener and a better student. The light will help you focus your attention on what you read, listen to your teachers and learn the things you need to know. Real knowledge will lead you to wisdom--the right use of knowledge.
[Meditate on this for a moment]

Now take yourself to a place where you can be by yourself and you are getting ready to have a good rest, even go into a deep sleep. It can be your room, a spot by a lake, or the ocean.

[I paused and gave her the opportunity to choose. She chose her room.]

Now look at the light, once more, close-up and with eyes closed. But this time, close your eyes tight. As I take the light away from you, what colour do you see? She responded: I see several kinds of blues, purples and even a blackness.

BLUE--spirituality
Then I said, relax, as deeply as you want to. Now let yourself be aware of yourself, your unique self. [I gave her time to think on this.]

I told her that, in my opinion, blue is the symbol of what I call the pneumatological, or spiritual component--that in which we all live and move as self-aware, or spiritual, beings. [Again I paused to give her time to think what this means to her.]

How do you feel? "I want to go to sleep..." she said, I told her that she would have a really deep and healing sleep. She slept all afternoon.

By the way, the session took place at her home. Later, her grandmother and I took her to our home where her grandmother prepared her supper.

I think everyone went to bed about an hour or so ago, while I finished this writing.
Ignorance Is Eternal
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 10, 2007, 06:36 PM) *

Sigh*

Okay since no one else seems to be helping you and since ive done about 500 hours of self-hypnosis, I am fairly well versed in the subject. Okay, need to know a couple of things

#1 Is this your first time being hypnotised?

#2 Give me examples of what commands and changes you want to make.

#3 Do you have a tape recorder or microphone on your computer?

Answer these three things and I will type up a script for you with instructions on what to do ect.

Ive done levels of hypnosis most people dont even know exist, like DHI and Hypnotically Induced Visual Hallucinations. Sub-conscious programming is a breeze to do, you will find the more you do self hypnosis, the easier it becomes. I would say the most useful programming is overcoming fears and forgetting past faliures, with those two things properly used - the results are quite phenominal.

NLP is OKAY, but it is washed down hypnosis at best, NLP is more pre-hypnosis than hypnosis. It prepares the subject and is used to examine the way they think - basically get inside their head. A very good book that does not use hypnosis is Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, its like ten bucks brand new and has been used by Olympic Athletes for decades.

If your looking to read about hypnosis, dont waste your time on those hypnosis for dummies, ect. Go to the University Library and read anything by Milton Erickson.

Whatever, answer the questions and il get a script written up for you. Im a bit busy and havent been online so it might be a day or two.

This intrigues me deeply. Would perhaps private message me the instructions if I answer those questions as well? No need for hurry.
Lindsay
Keep in mind IIE: The fact that we now have the PC so readily available for all to use certainly increases our ability to do much good for one another. It is for sure that if we fail to use it for good, it will be used for evil.

Edmund Burke, 1729-1797
The British statesman and philosopher, Edmund Burke, was born in Dublin, January 12, educated at a Quaker boarding school and at Trinity College, Dublin put it this way: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Also: "All that evil needs to succeed, in the world, is for good people to do nothing."

http://www.bartleby.com/people/Burke-Ed.html
Ignorance Is Eternal
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 12, 2007, 08:50 PM) *

Keep in mind IIE: The fact that we now have the PC so readily available for all to use certainly increases our ability to do much good for one another. It is for sure that if we fail to use it for good, it will be used for evil.

Edmund Burke, 1729-1797
The British statesman and philosopher, Edmund Burke, was born in Dublin, January 12, educated at a Quaker boarding school and at Trinity College, Dublin put it this way: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Also: "All that evil needs to succeed, in the world, is for good people to do nothing."

http://www.bartleby.com/people/Burke-Ed.html

Thank you, although I'm not sure if that had any relevance whatsoever. Excluding possibly that today is the 12th..would you mind clarifying the reason behind this post?
Lindsay
IIE, ABOUT THE ART OF HYPNOSIS
Perhaps I should have prefaced what I wrote with the following: Hypnosis is art that, like all the arts, including the art of writing, can be used for good or evil.

Many people, no doubt because they choose to be eternally ignorant, fear hynosis of any kind. They equate it with brainwashing of the worst kind and miss how valuable it can be when used morally and ethically by people skilled in the art. I have heard religious leaders--probably unaware that they are using the very art they condemn--judge it as nothing more than a tool of the devil.

Because of this, many people, who could benefit from the positive use of the art of hypnosis fail to do so. They miss how simple it is to learn the technique; that it is ubiquitous, anyway, and easy to do.

Ironically, all leaders are hypnotists by default: Parents, teachers, clergy, political and other authority figures, under the guise of education, constantly hypnotise those willing to listen to them, from the cardle to the grave.

Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.

Here is a good place to start:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/hypnosis_history.html
Notice the connection between the art of hypnosis and the art of religion--perhaps the oldest human art.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 13, 2007, 09:42 AM) *

Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.



What! Do you understand what consequences mankind may face in case if those “knowledge” get spread among people?!

Some people use the technique in card games, some illusionists use similar tricks to fool people, some groups, spy agencies and secret societies use the technique to control politicians and lead wars, some use the technique to advertise products using it as a tool in aggressive marketing. So now what you suggest? The technique is a weapon. You suggest to spread weapons?

Enki
No one will be permitted to Hack the Matrix and question its tranquility, stability and reliability (I am sorry for utilizing cinematographic terminology).
maximus242
Any form of change techniques, whether hypnosis or not, require a extensive and knowlegable body behind them. Writting scripts is not so much a formula as it is a individual approach to tackle specific goals for each person.

Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.

In self-hypnosis, time is especially required for the beginner, 30 minutes is a resonable time to expect - each person is diffrent though and some first time subjects take 5 minutes, others take an hour.

Hypnotism is just one of many powerful techniques to change a person. Hypnosis is fairly average at its most basic level, however when one has an experienced subject and knows a great deal about hypnosis, the results are spectacular.

Enki your mislabelling hypnosis with other things like subliminal advertising.
Lindsay
I strongly suspect that Enki is being a bit facetious. I would be very surprised if he expects us to take his flurry of sarcasm seriously. smile.gif If you are serious Enki, make your case and let's dialogue.

By the way, until the 1980's, in the province of Ontario, it was illegal for anyone, except MDs to use hypnosis. It didn't matter how much, if any, psychological, or pneumatological understanding MD's had, they were attomatically qualified, while those really skilled in the art were forbidden.

A group of us got busy and called for a public inquiry as to whether or not the law really served the public good. The result was that things got changed--IMO, for the better--and the old law, which had been concocted by a certain power-seeking few who had their own agenda, was scrapped. Most medical doctors supported the findings of inquiry.
Lindsay
Here is some good and basic information:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/how_hypnosis_works.html
Enki
Thank you Maximus242 for quoting Milton Erickson, his warning is apt to place.

And even such a humble man as I not well unaware of so many arts discern subliminal advertising of hypnosis and understand the difference quite well, I guess, hope so.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 13, 2007, 07:28 PM) *

I strongly suspect that Enki is being a bit facetious. I would be very surprised if he expects us to take his flurry of sarcasm seriously. smile.gif If you are serious Enki, make your case and let's dialogue.


Really, indeed, who is wise enough to take words of an Enki seriously, I do wonder.
How could I imagine that members of such a prominent World Meditating Community hardly can take serious the flurry of sarcasm of such a secondary creature like me.

But if to speak seriously, I am ready to dialogue and argue over this important topic. I am strongly convinced that the technique must not be spread and popularized among men! Only few, with high moral values should be admitted to such knowledge (if such exist as organized science).

Let me quote a passage from Lord Bacon’s New Atlantis, I think it will be a nice beginning of our dialog:
“But we do hate all impostures and lies, insomuch as we have severely forbidden it to all our fellows, under pain of ignominy and fines, that they do not show any natural work or thing adorned or swelling, but only pure as it is, and without all affectation of strangeness.
These are, my son, the riches of Salomon's House.”

Now Mr. Lindsay, be so kind, explain to me this statement of yours “Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.”

Why people should know that? You very well, as far as I guess, know that it can be used as a weapon. Do you suggest to spread weapons?

And what about non-proliferation treaties?
Enki
You know, God dislikes when human Freedom of Will is questioned. The spreading of knowledge which facilitate one group of people to question Freedom of Will of the other group of people should be considered very negatively by the God. Don't you think so? Don't you think that those who know, should apply some kind of self-censorship?

Harmoniously develop human beings should have freedom of choice. If the number of people able to use sophisticated hypnosis techniques will increase in the world, then there will be great problems with the Freedom of Will worldwide.

E.g. Mr. Hitler and Comrade Stalin were of those who must not be admitted to such knowledge, but unfortunately that happened and the consequences were very dramatic. Besides, definitely, the perpetrators in Hamburg who organized 9/11, definitely had used quite sophisticated techniques to incline those Arab boys to commit that madness and crush the Two Towers and rush into Pentagon. It is not recommended to play with the Ring of the Power. Don't you think so?
Lindsay
Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.

Also, I am amazed to think that he even thought it possible. Perhaps it could be done under Nazism, Communism, and Islamism; but surely not in "land of the free and the home of the brave" and the land of your Canadian cousins. Can you imagine the uproar there would have been had the originators of the Internet tried to push through a law banning the use of the PC except by a special and elite few at the top?

If ME really meant what you say he said, why would his papers give detailed instructions as to how to do Ericksonian hypnosis.

By they way, as I read ME, he was more of an advocate of what I call pneumatherapy--the use of an hypnotic technique without the manipulative hocus pocus of stage hypnosis. He refused to use this master/subject model on people who came to him. He saw hypnotherapy as a cooperative and a collaborative process between therapist and the one seeking help. This is made perfectly clear in his paper: DEEP HYPNOSIS AND ITS INDUCTION--general considerations, to which I will refer, later.

Perhaps what really concerned Milton Erickson was the use of hypnosis as a manipulative tool by unscrupulous Svengali types.
===========================================================================
The word svengali refers to a person who completely dominates and controls another, usually for selfish or sinister motives. It is a literary allusion to the character Svengali. He was a musician and a hypnotist in the George du Maurier novel, Trilby--the heroine of the story (1894). The great John Barrymore and Marian Marsh stared in the 1931 movie based on the novel.

IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN WE IMAGINE
This kind of manipulation goes on all the time. Currently, the North America media is filled with the story of a male youth, Shawn Hornbeck, missing since 2002.

Recently, now 15, he was rescued--he was discovered quite by accident--after being held in captivity, not far from where he was kidnapped. He was forced to live with an older male who used what a psychologist described as "powerful psychological chains"--as effective as physical ropes on those who "believe" in what they are told. He feared for his life if he told anyone that where he was forced to live was not his home. Quite a story, but it shows the power that the words of one can have over the life of another who "chooses", for whatever reason, to believe what he is told.

http://www.hypnotism.org/Svengali.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali
Enki
But internet is a free source Lindsay. Anybody can read it.
I suggest to use ontology complicated enough to shield possible data percolation. How do you look at that suggestion?
simon
The information is already out there a la internet, surely now is a time to share and advise rather than withhold for the fear that the "bad" guys who already have the information, are listening for tips.
Enki
For your information quite many things are scattered in a proper way for special purposes. Keys always are scattered. But if a group of smart people will start to collect them in one place the consequences can be very dramatic.

I strongly insist on my point. It is awesome to imagine what will happen if Brain Meta start to attract young Harry Potters!

A young boy not having proper mentor cannot be admitted to such art. It is unwritten rule of intelligent people.

You see Lindsay avoids dialog because he quite well knows that I am right in this particular case. He probably was on high spirit at his birthday and all-encompassing love to all living beings inclined him to promote excessive freedom for all. smile.gif laugh.gif (I am sorry in advance it is a joke)
simon
so mentor
Enki
laugh.gif
Lindsay
QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 16, 2007, 12:36 PM) *

laugh.gif Lindsay avoids dialog...
Now, that really is a joke. laugh.gif
Enki
wink.gif
maximus242
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.
Gahan
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 18, 2007, 02:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.


Not all of us have access to a university library.
Lindsay
Max
QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 09:55 PM) *

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


Dear Mr. Lindsay,

I really respect you and it is always very interesting and a great pleasure to communicate with you, indeed. I will highly appreciate if you answer on one question:

"Are you going to do that online for anonymous users of this very forum willing to learn this art?"

With best wishes,
Yours Enki
Lindsay
Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.

BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?

What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.
maximus242
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 10:55 PM) *

Max
QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


This all seemed a rather pointless statement. Lindsay do you know about the diffrent physical effects that occur based on hypnosis?

Besides, all communication is hypnosis. Everyone enters and exits hypnosis daily, they dont need to be taught anything, only realize they can already do hypnosis.. seeing as they do it every day.

Things like daydreaming are actually hypnosis. A good visual story can easily induce hypnosis, its rediculously easy actually, let me explain the steps in learning hypnosis.

- Basic Theory and First Hypnotic Induction
- Learning and expermineting diffrent induction techniques
- Exploring the perspective limits in hypnosis
- Expanding the experiments done while under hypnosis
- Achieving deeper states of hypnosis
- Slowly working up the ability to do more complex exercises
- Achieving deep hypnosis and living through the guided imagry
- Conducting perspective and sensory alterations
- Inducing hallucinations
- Changing Perceptions at will
- *This is where most people see the final limit of hypnosis, there wrong, most people never make it close to this point*
- Cell to sub-conscious communication
- Altering Body, starting at the cellular level
- Causing changes in reaction, time perception, muscle structure and whatnot
- Enhanced Neurological control

I think you get the point

You move from hypnosis to NLP to DHI to Autogenic Training.

Milton Erickson, being the incredible man he is, was actually able to help a 19 year old girl grow breats after a lifetime of failure using hormones.. Milton Erickson stepped in and only using his words and some exercises, caused the girl to change her body.

Very few people know the extent you can take hypnosis to. You can enlarge the size of your blood vessels, cause yourself to become deathly ill or pump adrenaline to your muscles to cause a surge of super human strength.

Milton knew how powerful hypnosis really was, he could cause the mind to think at super speeds - faster than the most advanced computers (altering time perception *hard to do, need a very experienced subject*)

Lindsay, I think you want to distrubute hypnosis to the public because you dont fully realize what hypnosis is capable of, I suggest you read the MKULTRA files before doing so.
Lindsay
Max, until we dialogue enough for me to really understand the point you are trying to make, we will have to put things on hold, for now.

IMHO, knowledge is there for all who want to know.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *

Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.


It is natural and normal that people prefer to communicate anonymously, that philosophy is implanted into all Forums’ associated software. Some like to communicate openly, but anyway, even in that case it is hard to say that we know each other well. Up to know it is a mystery for me why such an intelligent and old person as Rick is still is an atheist, I initiated dialog related with the Inborn ideas of Descartes and Leibnitz’s fontanel egg but I still do not understand his phylosophy well, anyway, or why RTB was so unfriendly to Cheshire cat before, whatsoever.

I advise the following: if you wish to teach, then teach the art to those whom you know in person. Definitly internet provides alluring opportunity of meeting and talking with different people but open exchange of those arts may endanger the reliability of social institutions, all knowledge have multiple applications. People are such creatures that in state of anger may apply any art in quite specific ways. But nonetheless, I guess that it is possible to have online community of interesting people scattered and sleeping all around the world. smile.gif Community organizing conferences world wide, helping to find and help each other after so many years, and chartering open international societies promulgating Wisdom and Knowledge and Freedom among nations. E.g. by building a network of beautiful, cozy libraries worldwide which by grace of their old style architecture will attract those who want to learn. As a start such libraries can be chartered online. It is not a crime to visit a library online and read books from the shelves ornamented in nice, reach, old manner. If some time be spent, a good graphics be created and a beautiful philosophy of online libraries be grown and proper books be put on shelves in proper order in proper virtual rooms where proper sculptures and paintings will look at visitors of the rooms, then those who seek will find what they look for and one day they will find and knock the door of the proper building.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?


I think that such danger exists. You never know who can reemerge on the second face of two-faced Januses during utilization of the art as a byproduct of the peaceful activities. Just reliability issues and Common Sense. Some children always will strive to open unknown closed doors to find out what is over there, children should be guided.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.


I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
I have no doubt that you are wise enough and know what to talk about. Many of my friends use Skype as well, but I do not use it, because there are quite many extremely curious, morally unhealthy and aggressively ignorant people in civil services of far away countries...
Lindsay
Enki, you wrote:
QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?
Lindsay
You keep talking about danger
QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 05:23 AM) *

Enki, you wrote:
QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?


I am sorry, but that story will stay in the unwritten chapters of human history.
Enki
QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 06:41 AM) *

You keep talking about danger
QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I agree, knowledgeable people always should say something, though in some countries it is quite unsafe to do so. But does that relate to specific knowledge spreading? I guess not. You are mixing something or I do not understand you well.
maximus242
I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"
Joesus
QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.

Lindsay
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM) *

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"
Fear not. I have the strong feeling that those who choose to stay asleep, are very clever at finding the opiates, including certain mind-numbing religions, they need to assist them. laugh.gif

The corollary of this is: Those who need to and want to WAKE UP are clever enough not to let the obscurants stop them. Look what happened to that "sleeping giant, China".
maximus242
QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:56 AM) *

QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.


Intresting thoughts Joesus, though the enlightened by god part could be replaced with enlightened by life. It is true in todays society we often seek out forms of approval and justification from society.
Joesus
But those external forms of validation are only temporary.
If one believes that life exists only within the terms of the physical world then one will not open themselves to anything beyond those terms of definition.

Authority then is interpreted as the majority.

God is not Democratic.
Lindsay
BTW, "egotist" that I am, I post in more than one forum. I have noticed that in every forum where I post my views and opinions they always attract some strong detractors who often express their outrage. I love it, when this happens. Doesn't every writer?

The following is one small example. It is found in the topic, started by another poster, Tim, who starts a lot a topics and then says nothing. Interesting. The title is "Evidence for God"

After I made my usual appeal for people to be open to new words and ideas and the value of open-ended dialogue, this is what followed, from a poster with the appropriate initials DAM.
==================================================
Revlgk troll wrote:
"I am a great believer in the art of dialoguing" [quoting me]

Dialoguing is NOT a word. It is just more new-age woo-woo imbecility. And what you are posting is not science. [without one shred of evidence]

Rose ... please kill this thread ... all of it ... without mercy. This isn't science. This isn't even "not-quite science." This is a malignant troll.
===========================================
[And there was much more. However, this popular thread, with a large and growing number of clicks, is still there. I look forward to getting DAMed, often. My suggestion is--unless there is real substance--keep it brief, and impersonal--focuss on what I write, not on me.
============================================
Recently, to make the point that even scientists are interested in spirituality, and in talking how science and religion can work together, I wrote as follows:

THE GREAT INVENTOR AND GENIUS, NICOLA TESLA
I forgot to mention the work of Nicola Tesla--the son of a Serbian Christian Orthodox priest.
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

He was a highly spiritual person, but not being a narrow Orthodox Christian, he struggled with the rather narrow idea of God as taught by his religion.

Keep in mind that polytheism, and later, monotheism, came about when even the wisest people believed the earth was a flat disc with heaven above and hell below. We need not blame them for this, if they really believed in a flat earth, but surely when the Christian monk, Copernicus brought new knowledge to the west he should have been honored, not censored and threatened with death by the knowledge Luddites? For over a hundred years knowledge was held back by the obscurants.

OBSCURANTISM
Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance, obscurantism--the active opposition to progress and and the spread of knowledge, is something else. It is, IMHO, a great evil.

COSMOTHEISM
Back to Tesla, interestingly, he finally came to the conclusion that what is needed is a combination of Christianity and Buddhism. Interestingly, Buddhists are non-theists. I think of them as cosmotheists. Yes, new ideas need new words.

BTW, Christianity is already a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. I would even add the positive forms of Islam, Sikhism and Brahmanism to the mix. IMHO, in all this orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.

JESUS ADVOCATED ORTHOPRAXY. That is he called us to loving actions, deeds not just creeds--follow me, he said. Perhaps this is why he never wrote a book. Books tend to make us fixed-position thinkers--" IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!! (BTW, I am not opposed to felxible creeds, nor books.)

He told stories, or parables, which are stories of actions. His parable of the Good Samaritan--who, BTW, was not a Jew--in Luke 10 is about orthopraxy. I love the last sentence of his teaching: "GO then, and DO the same!"

THAT ALL MAY BE ONE
The same kind of teaching is found in John 10 and 17:20-26. His basic prayer is that "all may be one"--he called on all humanity to act as one.

The over-all philosophical term for this approach is, pragmatism--the doing of that which is morally valuable and good--the kind that was advocated by the great Christian philosopher/psychologist William James, of Harvard.

One final thought: "The secret of true unity is the love of variety." Does anyone know who said it?
I am waiting for some DAM comments. smile.gif
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