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Hey Hey
http://sfgate.com/columnists/morford/
BatineAcid
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Aug 07, 01:48 PM) *


Interesting article. I personally use Psilocybe sp. mushrooms as a sort of mental, physical, and spiritual cleansing. I never would have thought that I would ever consume the "magic mushrooms" that I had always heard about growing up in a serious manner until the first time I ingested them. As a student of chemistry, my mind was inundated by ideas of how this tryptamine-containing mushroom could possibly have such a profound effect on every aspect of my perception. The clarity of thought, the absolute dissolution of internal barriers, opened up so many new paths of thought. The mushroom experience truly connects one to onself, others, and one's environment. I have never felt as conscious, sober, and awake and appreciated so much as the hours after a psilocybin experience. And like the article states, these same understandings have been consistent throughout at least thousands of years of human ritualist use, not to mention the fact that even animals like mountain goats are known to eat them and proceed for hours to almost dance from rock to rock on the side of hills and mountains. Who knows how long the mammal-mushroom relationship has truely gone on. I believe there are even evolutionary implications of the existence of psilocybin containing mushrooms, including communication encouragement.
rhymer
My conclusion, having read the article is that anyone who has 'mind blowing' experiences after taking psylocybin (or any other psychedelic drug) would have the same experience if they took the 'right' antidepressant*.

I make this statement based on my own experience of taking about 15 types of AD's for depression.
Again, I just wish that writers would state just what these 'spiritual' experiences are.
I could easily call some of my experiences 'spiritual', but realise that just because they are amazing, unexpected and surprising does not mean that they are 'spiritual'.
The human brain when not working optimally, but accepted in its performance as the norm (ie., the same as everybody elses experiences in similar circumstances), is presumed to be supercharged when it starts working optimally (ie., the same as everybody elses experiences in similar circumstances).

*everyone reacts differently to different AD's. It requires experimentation to find the right AD per person.
This is not meant to be a critique on psylocybin; it's just a reflection of my own thoughts.
Hey Hey
agree with all said, rhymer.

strange time - moody blues - same effect.
BatineAcid
QUOTE(rhymer @ Aug 07, 06:19 PM) *

My conclusion, having read the article is that anyone who has 'mind blowing' experiences after taking psylocybin (or any other psychedelic drug) would have the same experience if they took the 'right' antidepressant*.

I make this statement based on my own experience of taking about 15 types of AD's for depression.
Again, I just wish that writers would state just what these 'spiritual' experiences are.
I could easily call some of my experiences 'spiritual', but realise that just because they are amazing, unexpected and surprising does not mean that they are 'spiritual'.
The human brain when not working optimally, but accepted in its performance as the norm (ie., the same as everybody elses experiences in similar circumstances), is presumed to be supercharged when it starts working optimally (ie., the same as everybody elses experiences in similar circumstances).

*everyone reacts differently to different AD's. It requires experimentation to find the right AD per person.
This is not meant to be a critique on psylocybin; it's just a reflection of my own thoughts.


I disagree completely, based on my experience with anti-depressants. I've tried four different anti-depressants over a period of 5 years. I also think antidepressants are completely irrelevant to the discussion. If you have never tried a tryptamine psychedelic such as psilocybin, like the article said, you will never understand. It is impossible to put into words the spiritual aspect, as it is intrinsic in the effects of the chemical's interaction with your brain. The rapid expansion of thought and completely unique perspective on everything is completely different than the effects of SSRI, SSNRI, and MAOI antidepressants. On top of that, psilocybin only requires one dose, lasting 4 hours, where as antidepressants require continuous dosing, etc, and usually aren't effective for several days or weeks.
code buttons
QUOTE(BatineAcid @ Aug 07, 03:03 PM) *

I disagree completely...

I agree to disagree completely with Rhymer. If that were the case, why are antidepressants legal? I was too young when I had my LSD experiences to think about anything other than party when I took it. So I never even try to have a spiritual experience. But I can understand how the door of opportunity for such experiences can open wide with LSD. LSD plays with your mind for 10 hours in a way impossible to duplicate or even remotely imitate with any legal man-made chemical compound out there. I've never taken anti-depressents in my life other than Xanax a couple of times for recreational purposes, and on both ocassions the only effect was that I fell asleep very comfortably for 10 hours.
Hey Hey
QUOTE(BatineAcid @ Aug 08, 12:03 AM) *

On top of that, psilocybin only requires one dose, lasting 4 hours, where as antidepressants require continuous dosing, etc, and usually aren't effective for several days or weeks.

you need to read more on antidepressants, of which there are numerous types, often working on different pathways. yes, usually the antidepressant effect takes weeks to reach an acceptable status, but we aren't talking about the antidepressant effect here ..... are we?

and try ECT (an antidepressant, though not a pharmaceutical in the usual sense), that in most cases has rather an immediate effect!
egodeath
The Entheogen Theory of Religion and Ego Death

The entheogen theory of religion holds that the main origin and ongoing wellspring of religion is visionary plants, such as Psilocybe mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca combinations, Salvia divinorum, Cannabis, Opium, Henbane, Datura, Mandrake, Belladonna, ergot, and Amanita mushrooms.

Visionary plants have been commonly used around the world throughout the history of religion and culture (Hofmann, Schultes, & Ratsch 1992), including in the various forms of Western Esotericism (Heinrich 1994). Greek and Christian mythic-religious systems often refer to visionary plants (Ruck, Staples, & Heinrich 2001). Leading mystics throughout the history of various religions have used on-demand, visionary-plant sessions with rationality-oriented mystic-state experiencing (Merkur 2001).

Meditation, shamanic drumming, and liturgical ritual were developed as activities to do in the plant-induced dissociative state, not as methods of inducing the dissociative state in the first place.

http://egodeath.com/EntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm
Hey Hey
QUOTE(egodeath @ Aug 09, 02:34 AM) *

The entheogen theory of religion holds that the main origin and ongoing wellspring of religion is visionary plants, such as Psilocybe mushrooms, Peyote, Ayahuasca combinations, Salvia divinorum, Cannabis, Opium, Henbane, Datura, Mandrake, Belladonna, ergot, and Amanita mushrooms.
http://egodeath.com/EntheogenTheoryOfReligion.htm

That and schizophrenia.
Rick
Schizophrenia is distinct from psychedelic ("entheogen") experience, and highly undesirable.
Hey Hey
QUOTE(Rick @ Aug 09, 07:07 PM) *

Schizophrenia is distinct from psychedelic ("entheogen") experience, and highly undesirable.

Schizophrenics commonly have religious visions, delusions and experiences:

http://www.bumc.bu.edu/Dept/Content.aspx?D...81&PageID=10054

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...0&dopt=Abstract

Some believe that schizophrenic experiences gave rise to religious beliefs in humans.
Rick
Leave it to the medical establishment to associate delusional states with spirituality.

Psychiatrists initially thought that the psychedelics mimiced psychosis (hence the false terms "psychotomimetic" (along with the other false term "hallucinogen")), but that erroneous view has long been debunked. Schizophrenia is distinct from psychedelia, despite some superficial similarities to outside observers.
trojan_libido
Hi, I believe that God really is in Magic Mushrooms, doesn't all religion say that God is everywhere and in everything? Mushrooms are the phallus of the mycelium network underground. Mycelium grows throughout soil and such like a spiders web, an intelligent spiders web. The Sun (light) sexually arouses the mycelium when it breaks though the soil. I say sexually because all you need to do is look at a mushroom and you will see it is a rudimentary phallus, one that carries the spores (seeds). It is a very basic form of life that creates huge super structures like our sky-scrapers, and its only function is to spread its seed.

The change of substrate from earth to air is the cause for the stimulation, and its this breaking through from one substrate to another that has always been seen as sacred. It is the reason that the Lotus is also sacred. That plant grows in the soil, grows up through the water and flowers on the surface. Our scientific achievements are all about rising up through our atmosphere or down through our oceans, it is the same process.

"power plants" were used as a sacrament in almost every religion, and a lot of the most potent hallucinogens, are still used in various organisations with legal protection. Eastern meditation has at its heart the message that everything is one, and all material reality is an illusion. From the dissolving of Ego one can experience the Divine from the piece that is sitting right behind their own eyes. Mushrooms and LSD are known for inducing spiritual states and the feeling that everything is one. Is it just a co-incidence?

Whatever you believe just remember that magic mushrooms are really a huge sky scraping phallus from one of Gods tiny creations. Anything that effects your mind gives you another view of the Divine behind your eyes. There is a lot of evidence that ancient cave art was inspired by these altered states and that religious belief and evolution was pushed along by the spirit within us and everything, including mushrooms and our Sun.

So I believe you ohmy.gif)
cerebral
dude, you live in a phallus-centric universe.

But there's more than phalluses to it.

And LSD is purely synthetic. Has nothing to do with phalluses or mushrooms.
trojan_libido
Actually dude, we all live in a phallus centric universe. Its the creational fire in physics, biology and celestial mechanics. Sex is the duality of force that drives everything, and so I used the sexual aspect because that alters peoples perceptions of a mushroom more dramatically than any other aspect.

LSD is purely synthetic, but the effects are so similar that it can't be ignored.
Culture
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Sep 19, 2006, 08:02 AM) *

Actually dude, we all live in a phallus centric universe. Its the creational fire in physics, biology and celestial mechanics. Sex is the duality of force that drives everything, and so I used the sexual aspect because that alters peoples perceptions of a mushroom more dramatically than any other aspect.

LSD is purely synthetic, but the effects are so similar that it can't be ignored.


See the avatar? :-)

There is a distinct difference between psilocybe and lysergic acid diethylamide.
Simply because substances are hallucinogenic does not make them or the effect similar.

Mesculine too is different from both of these and by far the most psychedelic.

trojan_libido
Yeah I recognise the differences, but the effect is the same, an inner "trip" which usually gives new perspective on your environment or yourself. Spirit quests and mystical experiences are no different to shamanic trances in what they entail, understanding, knowledge or a guide is gained. The little piece of a mathematical and psychedelic god is sitting behind your eyelids reading this as we speak is ingesting and reflecting information like a mirror or electrical speakers. We are but reflections of the ultimate reality which is invisible and driving the Universe and time etc. We are forever reflecting all our truths and sounds in the dance of Shiva or physics. The pattern of life is psychedelic and the mathematics of life is the Golden Ratio. The spiral effect it creates is happening on all levels, becoming ever more orderly as chaos theory predicts.

I am unable to comment on mescaline, but I believe the DMT within our own bodies may give the strongest evidence for things such diverse things as religous visions and UFO abductions. I've been looking into the root of religion, mathematics and consciousness for something I've been writing and feel that any substance growing on the planet which causes mystical and spiritual experiences is extremely important. It grew in abundance due to the large mammals on grasslands crapping cowpats everywhere, magic mushrooms favourite substrate.

I heard Terrence Mckenna speak about similar things and he mentioned a chemical in magic mushrooms that improves binocular rivalry - the left and right eye fighting in the brain. I didn't believe it but I managed to find the research online - do you realise how important that an evolutionary advantage it gave to eat these mushrooms? Then the fact that it heightens the observers experience so that bad things are evil, and good things are heavenly means it could have aided our formation of duality in religion. It can also gives full on spiritual experiences and means this little trippy fellow is a part of our history.

Our duality of belief was caused by our evolution in shamanic societies. The belief that everything is one is central to shamanism/animism and this is beginning to come true within the realm of physics where things have to be described by their effects on the environment. Everything becomes a web of the same basic blocks that somehow have formed into variations.

This is some context to why I believe the Magic Mushroom is an important cultural symbol, and why they are all Gods little children smile.gif
solartrinity
I have to say that taking magic mushrooms has been one of the most intense experiences in my life and the most life changing. I didnt know that what life was all about till i did my first trip. I could see so much more like air particles, new colours out of the spectrum our eyes can normally see, i felt like doors were being opened inside my brain allowing me to think and percieve in so many ways i never thought possible. I felt an understanding of life and the universe and everything and everything made sense for the trip on mushrooms i seemed to have the intellegence and ability to comprehend and understand why we are here and what life was i found out who i was and that not only am i me but i am also everything. I could feel as if i was everyone and everything all at the same time and percieved myself in everything and everyone all at the same time like I had tapped into universal consiousness and felt such a strong oneness as if i saw god, not as a person but as a united harmonic feeling of oneness of everything.

I was able to percieve at the world as if it was all made up of different vibrations of energy and made up of a never ending pattern that was like patterns similar to fractals. I could feel earth energy and aware that I was existing on a large living and breathing planet which had feelings and emitted a vibe of harmony and balance.

After taking mushrooms I saw life in a completely different way as if i had been born into a new world of understanding and perception. I looked at other people as if they were so blind to existance and followed thier planned out lives as the law and society dictated, the job, marriage, mortgage, cornflakes for brekfast, wash the car on sunday and relax on the 3 piece suite.

I felt like I had been given a glimpse of something so special and that my life wasnt to be rich and have the best of everything but to find peace and truth within my soul.

I have to say that drugs and mind altering substances are looked upon so wrongly in society and as a bad life threatening addiction. All i can say is why have the goverments banned them and made them illegal? Maybe its because they know we will see through the sh*t they are feeding us and change the world. You only have to read the rediculous criminal justice bill to see how scared they really are about any togetherness of people, loud music with rythmic beats and possession and taking of illicit substances. Music is also a way of finding yourself and also of tuning into enlightenment, rythmic beats have existed for years as a togetherness and celebration of harmony and life, how much further will society go till we realise?
trojan_libido
Trips open doors, sometimes to places you never wish to go again. But when you do come back, you are so grateful for the life you are given that it is worth the risk.

I think you only have to look at our mating and courting habits to see animal behaviour and modern shamanism. Dance and trance music, beer and sex, they're not at all related... /sarcasm Beer was a good drug to get us all drunk and have more kids, something that was required in prehistory. This isn't the case now, we're pushing the Earth to its population limits as it is.

Now we are entering areas in science that require us to think outside of our normal conscious perceptions. New ideas are always outside the realms of the norm, and with string theory and nano technology coming into fruition, we will require large leaps of science via even larger leaps of imagination, to pull off the really good tricks. Whats amusing is trying to figure out how many people of high standing were involved in the 60's movement, and how many are still being influenced - or even more amusing is the people who refuse to do any psychedelics because the thought police said its wrong.

We require a larger selection of psychoactives than beer and toxic cigarettes. Legal or not, when people see and experience the damage caused from beer and cigarettes, they automatically feel let down by those in authority and curious of the alternatives.

In a world that allows people to kick the hell out of each other in Ultimate Fighting, or put paralysing botox in their own faces in the ultimate expression of vanity, it is ridiculous that people aren't allowed to eat what the hell they like. The "drug" problem is not about the drug. Its about prohibition and not having an official ritual associated with these substances.

The mushroom is a brilliant example of a simple organism that sees the light and grows a phallus. Poetry in a cowpat.
rhymer
solartrinity said

"I have to say that taking magic mushrooms has been one of the most intense experiences in my life and the most life changing. I didnt know that what life was all about till i did my first trip. I could see so much more like air particles, new colours out of the spectrum our eyes can normally see, i felt like doors were being opened inside my brain allowing me to think and percieve in so many ways i never thought possible. I felt an understanding of life and the universe and everything and everything made sense for the trip on mushrooms i seemed to have the intellegence and ability to comprehend and understand why we are here and what life was i found out who i was and that not only am i me but i am also everything. I could feel as if i was everyone and everything all at the same time and percieved myself in everything and everyone all at the same time like I had tapped into universal consiousness and felt such a strong oneness as if i saw god, not as a person but as a united harmonic feeling of oneness of everything."

Whilst some people poo-pooed my post about antidepressants, I have to say that when I went onto AD's I could almost have written his words myself!!!
I thought I had died and been reborn into a new world!
Multiple consciousness and air particles would not have been written.
solartrinity
QUOTE(rhymer @ Jan 03, 2007, 12:23 AM) *

solartrinity said

"I have to say that taking magic mushrooms has been one of the most intense experiences in my life and the most life changing. I didnt know that what life was all about till i did my first trip. I could see so much more like air particles, new colours out of the spectrum our eyes can normally see, i felt like doors were being opened inside my brain allowing me to think and percieve in so many ways i never thought possible. I felt an understanding of life and the universe and everything and everything made sense for the trip on mushrooms i seemed to have the intellegence and ability to comprehend and understand why we are here and what life was i found out who i was and that not only am i me but i am also everything. I could feel as if i was everyone and everything all at the same time and percieved myself in everything and everyone all at the same time like I had tapped into universal consiousness and felt such a strong oneness as if i saw god, not as a person but as a united harmonic feeling of oneness of everything."

Whilst some people poo-pooed my post about antidepressants, I have to say that when I went onto AD's I could almost have written his words myself!!!
I thought I had died and been reborn into a new world!
Multiple consciousness and air particles would not have been written.


I have been on AD's for years but havent felt as amazing as i have on mushrooms, and im a female btw, not a he wink.gif

Emma
Solartrinity
Hey Hey
QUOTE(rhymer @ Jan 03, 2007, 12:23 AM) *

solartrinity said

"I have to say that taking magic mushrooms has been one of the most intense experiences in my life and the most life changing. I didnt know that what life was all about till i did my first trip. I could see so much more like air particles, new colours out of the spectrum our eyes can normally see, i felt like doors were being opened inside my brain allowing me to think and percieve in so many ways i never thought possible. I felt an understanding of life and the universe and everything and everything made sense for the trip on mushrooms i seemed to have the intellegence and ability to comprehend and understand why we are here and what life was i found out who i was and that not only am i me but i am also everything. I could feel as if i was everyone and everything all at the same time and percieved myself in everything and everyone all at the same time like I had tapped into universal consiousness and felt such a strong oneness as if i saw god, not as a person but as a united harmonic feeling of oneness of everything."

Whilst some people poo-pooed my post about antidepressants, I have to say that when I went onto AD's I could almost have written his words myself!!!
I thought I had died and been reborn into a new world!
Multiple consciousness and air particles would not have been written.

Very important point. I have had similar effects coming off ß-blockers! But of course, an individual's physiology and past/present psychology modulates the effects of any neuropharmaceutical.
Hey Hey
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Sep 19, 2006, 03:48 PM) *
Hi, I believe that God really is in Magic Mushrooms
Read widely and you will find that mushrooms are members of but one kingdom that has organisms that produce hallucinogens, not least the Planta. And note, the wonderful Morning Glory, for example, has no appearance of a fallus. Rather it is a beautiful flower. So you can keep your Stinkhorns, I prefer the Baby Woodrose (http://babywoodrose.com/).
trojan_libido
Im aware there is more than one type of hallucinogen. Datura, Blue Lotus, many different household flowers containing LSA, poisonous frogs, nutmeg, cactus. I've also tried everything except deliriums like datura, and im friendly to frogs so they're off the menu.

What I mean to say is i feel the concept of "god" is within the mushroom, but not exclusive to the mushroom. smile.gif
simon
What is this God thing that you write of ?
trojan_libido
It is the thing that just wrote your post. It is the expression we've all been blessed with.
webby
Salvia Divinorum
trojan_libido
What about it? smile.gif
atha
Have you read about The Blue Pearl experience of Swami Muktananda ? About Bindu -- Nila Bindu, as the doorway to the Absolute ?
rhymer
I have tried no hallucinogens (unless someone popped me a pill sometime).
I find reality hard enough to comprehend, but still believe that God can only be found in the Temple (or behind it).
Choose your own area of brain matter that qualifies.

The absolute defined:-

Adjective: absolute
1. Perfect or complete or pure
2. Complete and without restriction or qualification; sometimes used informally as intensifiers
3. Not limited by law
4. Expressing finality with no implication of possible change
5. Not capable of being violated or infringed

Noun: absolute
1. Something that is conceived or that exists independently and not in relation to other things; something that does not depend on anything else and is beyond human control; something that is not relative

[WordWeb.info]
trojan_libido
Hallucinogens can only give you a first hand look at the way your biological body is processing information, and a second hand look at how the brain fantasises based "sometimes" on this information. The fact mystical experiences can be attained using many methods including entheogens is almost proof that God is consciousness itself, in matter or spirit. This is why I believe God is in the Magic Mushroom.
Rick
And also in the Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds?
trojan_libido
Yes, and the Morning Glory flower which has, interestingly enough, very apt names for the varieties with the highest alkaloid content:

Heavenly Blues, Pearly Gates, and Flying Saucers.

Compare Pearly Gates with San Pedro (Mescaline cacti sacrament) which is Spanish for St. Peter, guardian of the Gates of Heaven. Also Flying Saucers and the possible link between altered states, OBE's etc. and the abduction phenomenon. See wiki for pages on endogenous DMT and Abduction phenomenon.
Enki
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 23, 2007, 11:31 PM) *

Yes, and the Morning Glory flower which has, interestingly enough, very apt names for the varieties with the highest alkaloid content:

Heavenly Blues, Pearly Gates, and Flying Saucers.

Compare Pearly Gates with San Pedro (Mescaline cacti sacrament) which is Spanish for St. Peter, guardian of the Gates of Heaven. Also Flying Saucers and the possible link between altered states, OBE's etc. and the abduction phenomenon. See wiki for pages on endogenous DMT and Abduction phenomenon.


Some memory failure, parallel memory yap?
Interesting indeed.
Enki
Science is a great thing indeed:

Dr. Rick Strassman, while conducting DMT research in the 1990s at the University of New Mexico, advanced the theory that a massive release of DMT from the pineal gland prior to death or near death was the cause of the near death experience (NDE) phenomenon. Several of his test subjects reported NDE-like audio or visual hallucinations. His explanation for this was the possible lack of panic involved in the clinical setting and possible dosage differences between those administered and those encountered in actual NDE cases.

Several subjects also reported contact with 'other beings', alien like, insectoid and reptilian in nature, in technological environments[4] where the subjects were 'probed', 'tested' and sometimes even 'manipulated' by these 'beings' (see Abduction phenomenon). However, it is important to note that Dr. Strassman's patients were given DMT in a hospital, under observation, while a probe was in their anus to record changes in body temperature.

About the Transformers:

Writers on DMT include Terence McKenna and Jeremy Narby, though most scientists who study psychedelic drugs treat their writings with skepticism. McKenna writes of his experiences with DMT in which he encounters entities he describes as "Self-Transforming Machine Elves".

Wiki has such a great power.
trojan_libido
After having a minimal experience with DMT, ie tiny dose (see http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showt...=0&#entry80619), i can understand what is meant by machine elves. The closed eyed imagery is profoundly fluid, mathematical and silvery. It's certainly a stream of sorts, and I can imagine any form taking shape and giving the impression of telepathy. Since I consider myself a psychonaut I will definately be doing this again in higher dose and more ritual setting.

For another example of a similar phenomenon, check out writings on the Salvia Goddess. Same concept but different chemical, which is why I believe its entirely probable that endogenous hallucinogens are responsible for all visitations in history. The fact we have taken these ideas and ran with them shows they have indeed been guiding us.
Enki
Interesting. But please be careful during such experiments.
Gradually mankind will approach to understanding of such
complex phenomena as one you describe. And I am sure that they are numerous
and have very diversified options. Some real some fantastic.
This new science I call Cybernetic Physics.
But it is better not to advertise that, because if all decide to take the
Red pills of Morpheus we will get serious energetic problem. laugh.gif
I am sorry for usage of the cinematographic terminology.
trojan_libido
I always take care during any "experiments" I undertake. Self analysis and creativity is the main reason I dabble in such things, but its very rare I do it more than once a year.
Enki
No doubt about Dr. Faustus. wink.gif

Nullius in verba.
trojan_libido
Which one Enki, the original legend of Faust and his damnation or the updated Goethes Faust with the Lord stepping in to save his soul? smile.gif

"On the words of no one" certainly sums up my interest in the hallucinogens. Theres a thin veil between conciousness and dreaming, and I believe the fantastical parts of our humanity are actually aspects of the glue that holds rational though together wink.gif
Enki
I just was meaning a philosopher-scientist who is ready to cross boarders to discover what is out there.

It is really very interesting subject. I have collected a lot of info related with the subject and think that the phenomena is very diversified. Hope one day to publish some ideas under my real name. wink.gif
trojan_libido
Excellent Enki, I really hope that society breaks through this "drugs are bad m'kay" attitude and realises that everything we put in our mouths, on our bodies and even into our minds has a major effect on the world we're living in. The importing of sugar was a MAJOR factor in setting up a lot of trade routes and furthering our exploration of the world. This sugar has found its way into almost all processed foods and the amount of candy consumed worldwide is staggering.

I think that the speed of change in our culture is indirectly related to the change in our diets. Its no wonder our childrens attention spans are getting shorter when you give some thought about their diets and the amount of quickfire programs and adverts they're subjected to. Kids want things RIGHT NOW! T.V. is the centre of most living rooms and we've yet to really study or acknowledge the fact almost all of humanity is now seeing realities and knowledge that 50 years ago would only be available in books.

Hallucinogens bring images of mentally ill patients bouncing off hospital padded walls, which in almost every case is just not true. Even the shape of the molecules are in most cases very very similar to seratonin, and without belief we couldn't/wouldn't be able to do anything with these biological bodies of ours. Its all very fascinating to me, but maybe i'm damaged from all the LSD I did as a teen smile.gif
Enki
>Even the shape of the molecules are in most cases very very similar to seratonin

it is very important argument btw.
trojan_libido
Has anyone ever experienced a feeling of oneness or complete calm, or a flash of clarity in which everything seems possible? If so I'd like to know if it was meditation or an entheogen, situation etc. This is relevant to what the mushroom has done for culture and our religious history.
Orbz
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 29, 2007, 03:23 AM) *

Has anyone ever experienced a feeling of oneness or complete calm, or a flash of clarity in which everything seems possible? If so I'd like to know if it was meditation or an entheogen, situation etc. This is relevant to what the mushroom has done for culture and our religious history.

Yes, it was a strange experience that lasted about an hour. It was not caused directly by anything, but around that time I was doing a lot of meditative work (tai chi/qigong) but nothing of note immediately preceding the experience. Everything seemed to be interconnected in some way shape or form and everything felt as though everything was how it was meant to be.
Enki
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 28, 2007, 11:23 AM) *

Has anyone ever experienced a feeling of oneness or complete calm, or a flash of clarity in which everything seems possible? If so I'd like to know if it was meditation or an entheogen, situation etc. This is relevant to what the mushroom has done for culture and our religious history.


Yes, such thing happens.
Neither of the numbered.
That happens after hard and satisfactory intellectual work.
trojan_libido
Did you feel changed or refreshed from the experience Orbz, did it make you look for similar reports in history or online? It certainly did for me although my experience was triggered through an hallucinogen and a deep chat on existence. The only natural comparison I can make is when I first became a father (not the birth, the realisation), my mindset was altered as soon as I had a purpose.
Orbz
I didn't really feel changed, maybe a bit refreshed, the experience was certainly enjoyable. I think it probably didn't do change me so much because the experience was completely synonymous with my world view at the time, so it didn't need to change anything. I mostly just noted it as an experience I had, which would probably come around again. It was similar in some ways to an LSD trip, but without the overly strong bodily sensations or visual distortions and with more clear headedness and empathic feelings than on LSD.

A similar experience I had felt as though I was on low dose mdma for about 4-5 days. Again a drug free experience full of empathic feelings for people but in a completely calm state of mind, and no time distortion or feelings of 'I need to do something' that you get on ecstasy which could be probably be the adulterated amphetamine in the pill. I have to some extent figured out how to recreate this type of experience through mental focus/meditation. Although it seems to be far better and lasts longer when it just sneaks up on you, it can be hard work.
trojan_libido
Naturally occuring altered states are almost always more satisfying and more valid than their chemical counterparts in my opinion. Pure MDMA is still being used in psychotherapy as far as I know, allowing the drugs obvious effects (empathy, love etc) to work their magic in councelling is probably the most intelligent thing the medical world has done since that awful banning of LSD because it was challenging everyday tax payers and religious types.
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QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 24, 2007, 06:23 AM) *

I always take care during any "experiments" I undertake. Self analysis and creativity is the main reason I dabble in such things, but its very rare I do it more than once a year.

Yea, right! You'd be lying if you told me that you're not also having a helova good time!
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