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Trip like I do
An intensification of any experience to the degree that there is a loss or transcendence of self (often termed mystical or religious).

During 'Peak' experiences, the individual experiences not only an expansion of self but also a sense of unity and meaningfulness in life. For that moment, the world appears to be complete and the person is at one with it.

The experience lingers on and transforms one's understanding so that things do not seem to be quite the same afterword. Considered moments of 'self-actualization'.

Self-actualizers are able to distinguish between the goal that they are striving for and the means by which they are accomplishing it.

Self-actualizers freaquently have silly, wasteful, or thoughtless habits. At times they are vain and take too much pride in their achievements. They may sometimes lose their temper.

Because of their concentration on their work, they may appear absentminded, humorless, or impolite.

Less than 1% of the entire population actually achieve self-actualization.
mayonaise
Just a quick note.

I think you're mixing transcendent, selfless and formless states with peak experiences with a self as part of the experience. IN the latter there can be unity as well but the experience is not transcendental.
maximus242
hmm i think self-actualization is closesly linked with a sense of understanding of ones self and those that affect the self..
Trip like I do
Enhance life by enriching it (Abraham Maslow's 'Humanism').

Rather than reduce tension, frequently heighten it in a quest for ever increasing stimuli that will bring a life lived to the fullest. Seek states of increased optimal tension in order to enhance opportunity for self-actualization.

Children, by nature, are curious; when their cognitive impulses are satisfied, they seek further comprehension and understanding.

Every human relationship is 'potentially' a theraputic one.

Characteristics of Self-Actualizers

1. Efficient and accurate perception of reality.
2. Continued freshness of appreciation without preconceptions.
3. Tendency to have peak experiences.
4. Clear ethical awareness and standards, but not necessarily conventional ones.

Honesty

1. Philosophical sense of humour that pokes fun at our shared human pretensions.
2. Deep feeling of kinship with all humanity.
3. Selective and deep interpersonal relations with a small circle of intimates.
4. Democratic character structure accepting of other people.

Freedom

1. Detachment and a need for privacy.
2. Autonomous and independent of culture and environment.
3. Creative in whatever they do.
4. Spontaneity, simplicity, and naturalness.
maximus242
how can you claim to have a efficent and accurate sense of reality when your only comparison is the opinions of yourself and of others?
Trip like I do
'Truth is an opinion'

....and is relative and subjective.
maximus242
Do you consider yourself to be a Self-Actualizer?
Trip like I do
ABSOLUTELY

...am and becoming.
maximus242
So you said in order for Self-Actualization to occur their needs to be a increase in tension, I assume this is a mainly emotional tension. Now can you elaborate on the stages experienced towards Self-Actulization, I would be intrested to see how the increase in psychological stress results into a deep enlightening experience through these stress'. It is well known that stress is used in the military to prepare soldiers for various situations to deal under stress ect. would these people also experience the Self-Actualization you claim or is it a specific set of tensions?
Trip like I do
....to one extreme of human potentiality, yes (that of 'man as machine', a 'mechanized automaton').

That potentiality becomes actualized as a means to an end. However, this potentiality is implemented and is used with specific goals in mind, and is not a fully tapped into phenomena so far (i.e. as to other human potentials of this collapsed state).
maximus242
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Feb 26, 12:10 PM) *

....to one extreme of human potentiality, yes (that of 'man as machine', a 'mechanized automaton').

That potentiality becomes actualized as a means to an end. However, this potentiality is implemented and is used with specific goals in mind, and is not a fully tapped into phenomena so far (i.e. as to other human potentials of this collapsed state).


Okay I am a bit confused, you may of read what I wrote in a diffrent way than was intended trip. What I am asking is since this increase in tension causes self-actualization, can you describe the stages a person goes through on the journey to self-actualization? Now you said that the potential is used with a specific set of goals in mind, so does this mean a person only becomes self-actualized in a certain area?
Trip like I do
I don't know dude, maybe I've said too much already!

Hyper-aware, spatially and temporally.

hyper realization of cognitive and physical capacities and capabilities.

Welcome to the machine!

....of cogs and bolts, etc.
mayonaise
Trip, if your last post contains the point you were driving home, then I agree wholeheartedly. Tweaking the machine.

Then some people want to know the Ghost in it too as well as they can but that "trip" isn't for everybody smile.gif
maximus242
I found something intresting regarding self actualization it is maslows hiearchy of needs and it goes as follows (left lower more needingly fufilled needs, right only fufilled when the lower one is)

---------------------------------------------------------------Self Actualization
----------------------------------------------------Esteem_/
----------------------------Social Belonging_/
------------------Safety_/
Physiological_/

Note the ---- are just their because whitespace gets deleted
Trip like I do
the pros and cons of hiearchies

pros: 1. easy navigation
2. unique path for each node
3. easy visualization

cons: 1. limiting, no bidirectional connections or closed loops wink.gif

QUOTE(mayonaise @ Feb 27, 04:00 AM) *


Then some people want to know the Ghost in it too as well as they can but that "trip" isn't for everybody smile.gif


What are you trying to say here, something about the ghost in the machine, the blank state, and the noble savage?
maximus242
I am actually a bit confused by the machine refrences, is this to imply that self-actualization leads to depersonalization?? I am just not sure where the machine refrences are going..
Trip like I do
Stephen Pinker goes into some detail about it in 'The Blank Slate: the modern denial of human nature'.

Also, if you are truely intrigued, try looking into Lewis Mumford's work, esp. 'The Pentagon of Power: The Myth of the Machine.'

....but there is so much more.

It's the classical paradigm, with descartes and the boys!
mayonaise
Well, I think anybody who writes a lot about the "System" and the "High Technology of the Power Elites" (like Mumford) may have some trouble with paranoia... IMO. Not that it couldn't be true; that our thoughts are being affected by for example the US government even as we speak by satellites (this has been technically possible for many years) but I don't personally believe it.

QUOTE
Then some people want to know the Ghost in it too as well as they can but that "trip" isn't for everybody

What are you trying to say here, something about the ghost in the machine, the blank state, and the noble savage?

One example might be yogis who really do nothing else with their lives except concentrate. I think that's more like to noble savage thing.

The difference between enlightenment in a pill and actually jumping the hurdles.
maximus242
Sigh* let me put it this way, I have collected very specialized knowlege and talked to some very smart people. They only showed me the tip of the iceberg and it was impressive. I have seen people believe god was speaking to them when it was my friend, you should know some of these already mayonaise, but I am telling you it works because I tried some of these things out myself (only way you can actually be sure) and they worked just like they were supposed to..
Rick
---------------------------------------------------------------Self Actualization
----------------------------------------------------Esteem_/
----------------------------Social Belonging_/
------------------Safety_/
Physiological_/


Test of the font properties.
Trip like I do
Being needs ------> Self-actualization

Deficiency needs -------> Self-esteem
---------------------------> Belonging and love
---------------------------> Safety
---------------------------> Physiological needs

....self-actualizing individuals are those who are fulfilling themselves and doing the best they are capable of doing.

Maslow's portrayal of the self-actualized person is optimistic, generating much confidence in the potentiality of humanity. His research originated in an era of growth and prosperity accompanied by a seemingly limitless view of human potential. Could it be based on American values of individual achievement? Because of cultural training, many people in Western societies tend to believe that personality is best rooted on a high sense of positive self-esteem.

People in many non-Western cultures cultivate very dissimilar personalities. In Japan and China, an autonomous self is not stressed and children are taught to cooperate and not demonstrate their superiority so as to avoid diminishing other people! As a result, people percieve themselves to be part of the whole and define themselves in terms of the group.
maximus242
well i did read that on another table of the two highest (see below), so prehaps westerners have lost sight of global harmony and replaced the top with personal harmony?

>Global Harmony

>Personal Harmony
Trip like I do
QUOTE(mayonaise @ Feb 28, 01:11 AM) *

may have some trouble with paranoia...


....be careful about making attributions and projections, because of what can be, and how they are, analyzed.

....the big picture and the small picture.....the micro and the macro....looking at reality from all angles and all dimensions across all planes of space and time.

As above, so below.
Trip like I do
Intense concentration on an activity may provoke a peak experience, in which there is a loss or transcendence of self.

Maslow stated that the study of human nature as a machine, typical of 'radical behaviourism', cannot comprehend the whole person. He offered his view as a compliment to the other two forces in American psychology (psychoanalysis and behaviourism) rather than an alternative. He did not reject the contributions of these two other forces, but he believed that the picture of human nature needs to be rounded out. He sought to emphasize the positive rather than the negative side of human nature.
mayonaise
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Mar 01, 05:21 AM) *


....be careful about making attributions and projections, because of what can be, and how they are, analyzed.

I agree but before somebody can intellectually counter my logic, I will have to hold fast to it. That's how I learn anyway, I grab an idea, fortify, defend it and then let it go when the defences have been crumbled :-)

I haven't read on Maslow much but it's such an old theory, maybe someone has come up with something better... I think someone has, Alex Ramonsky for example because without the brain in the mix, you can't have scientifically valid appraisals of someone's needs (because needs and feelings can all be seen in the fMRI and there are markers of dysfunction in those systems).
Trip like I do
“Peak Performers don’t think about the game;

They ARE the game!”


....I like this!
mayonaise
That's the ideal.
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