Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: As Predicted!
BrainMeta.com Forum > Science > Physics, Cosmology, and Geology
Pages: 1, 2
Robert the Bruce
Some of the web people who have ridiculed me for saying the Out of Africa Theory is mere Euro-centric 'spin' as I said there would be proof of other hominids on the earth found in the near future will have to swallow hard. In the Toronto Star of October 28, 2004 we have one of these proofs reported. It happens right at one of the key sites of so-called anomalous advanced civilization and not far from Mungo Man. Yes, Flores Island where 825,000 year old tools were found now has this hominid. How they navigated to this island and whether or not they had been there the whole time up until about 12,000 years ago will be debated hotly; but I have presented theories which fit this appaent mixed human and ape-man neatly into a very different picture than we have been led to believe about man and his advancement - Hallejujah!!!!!!!!!!!
Dan
how does this find support your theories, and how does it contradict the 'out of africa' theories?
Robert the Bruce
Here is some of the article but they do not address many things I do - such as
1/ how did it get there?
2/ is this another cross breed like the chimp gorilla or the Neanderthal cross breed and all so many mythological creatures - thus posing a formerly advanced people here with the ability to do what we now can do
3/ the 825,000 year old artifacts shows the ability to navigate by the stars - they do not mention Flores Island is where this originates and that it was an island for over a million years and beyond the horizon
4/ Mungo Man and where it originates
5/ other hominids like the 8-10 foot giants in the Americas that have graves in Ohio well reported in the 19th C
5/ the pygmies in Kentucky that 600 skeletons were evaluated by Barry Fell
6/ the mumified pygmy in Egypt and the likely Mungo Man records from Hatschepsut's time - harmonics knowledge that they had
7/The Black skull that already disproved all the theories and trees
8/ The 9 and soon 12 million year old hominids that Johanson has no difficulty seeing are real though not yet certain that they were upright

etc.

I quote:


Still, researchers say the perseverance of Flores Man smashes the conventional wisdom that modern humans began to systematically crowd out other upright-walking species 160,000 years ago and have dominated the planet alone for tens of thousands of years.

And it demonstrates that Africa, the acknowledged cradle of humanity, does not hold all the answers to persistent questions of how -- and where -- we came to be.

"It is arguably the most significant discovery concerning our own genus in my lifetime," said anthropologist Bernard Wood of George Washington University, who reviewed the research independently.

Discoveries simply "don't get any better than that," proclaimed Robert Foley and Marta Mirazon Lahr of Cambridge University in a written analysis.

To others, the specimen's baffling combination of slight dimensions and coarse features bears almost no meaningful resemblance either to modern humans or to our large, archaic cousins.

They suggest that Flores Man doesn't belong in the genus Homo at all, even if it was a recent contemporary.

"I don't think anybody can pigeonhole this into the very simple-minded theories of what is human," anthropologist Jeffery Schwartz of the University of Pittsburgh. "There is no biological reason to call it Homo. We have to rethink what it is."

Dan
I found this AP article, and found some more speculations that seem to plausibly answer some of your questions:




QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 28, 08:15 PM)

1/ how did it get there?

"researchers suggest H. erectus spread to remote Flores and throughout the region, perhaps on bamboo rafts. Caves on surrounding islands are the target of future studies, they said."

QUOTE
2/ is this another cross breed like the chimp gorilla or the Neanderthal cross breed and all so many mythological creatures - thus posing a formerly advanced people here with the ability to do what we now can do

"Researchers suspect that Flores Man probably is an H. erectus descendant that was squeezed by evolutionary pressures."

QUOTE
3/ the 825,000 year old artifacts shows the ability to navigate by the stars - they do not mention Flores Island is where this originates and that it was an island for over a million years and beyond the horizon

"In 1998, stone tools and other evidence were found on Flores suggested the presence 900,000 years ago of another early human, Homo erectus. The tools were found a century after the celebrated discovery in the 1890s of big-boned H. erectus fossils in eastern Java."

QUOTE
Still, researchers say the perseverance of Flores Man smashes the conventional wisdom that modern humans began to systematically crowd out other upright-walking species 160,000 years ago and have dominated the planet alone for tens of thousands of years.

"....Flores Man didn't have to worry about violent human neighbors (due to isolation on island)"

QUOTE
5/ other hominids like the 8-10 foot giants in the Americas that have graves in Ohio well reported in the 19th C
5/ the pygmies in Kentucky that 600 skeletons were evaluated by Barry Fell
6/ the mumified pygmy in Egypt and the likely Mungo Man records from Hatschepsut's time - harmonics knowledge that they had
7/The Black skull that already disproved all the theories and trees
8/ The 9 and soon 12 million year old hominids that Johanson has no difficulty seeing are real though not yet certain that they were upright

?
this find doesn't appear to prove anything except the existence of another early hominid or intelligent primate species that happened to survive nearly to the modern era due to isolation on an island free of unmaneagable predators and other hominid species. It seems plausible to speculate that other such isolated events could have occurred as you imply this discovery suggests, but if these hypothesized species existed and the evidence has been found I suspect it would be well recognized by anthropologists just as this find has become.


it is still not clear to me how this find necessarily puts a monkey wrench in the 'out of africa' scenario of our ancestry, or what your alternative scenario of our ancestry is and how this find supports it
Robert the Bruce
Dear Dan

That would be great if those researchers were dealing with the 825,000 year old artifacts there wouldn't it? And the Caroline Islanders went to Hawaii 150,000 years ago by catamaran type rafts (botany proves this).

The rest of the stuff also does not address all the facts and time that it would take to develop the technology to travel the oceans (Mungo Man - came from where? How? How long did it take to move to South Australia.

You note the researchers disagree about it even being a homo and yet you quote it as fact while avoiding the fact that they specify it blows the Out of Africa theory out the door.

But you do ask what other theories I have and suggest there are other hominids (backhandedly).

So here is a little of what takes a whole book to demonstrate.

In Gondwanaland about 200,000,000 years ago before it split into So. Am, Africa, Australia and India as well as the uncertain movement of Madagascar you had the evolving genetic material that became the African strain which we are. This is a matter of little debate if any at all.

But the split that saw no land connecting any of these places varies and is less certain. Lets say 40 Million years ago the genetic material was still quite connected for most of these continents. Now that we have 9 Million year old upright hominids it is possible there was 12 Million year ago hominids and they developed differently de to the separate regions of the world that they had become. It is also possible that other hominids developed on the Asian and North American landmass and supercontinent but we have no clues to that really.

So Am hit No. Am about 2 Million years ago and Africa hit Europe about 9 Million years ago. Man is adventuresome and would always go over the next hill but there were large gigantopithecines and other creatures which caused them to have to co-operate (contrary to your idea borne of the Hobbesian or Hegelian BS). So we had humans all over the earth without travel around each of those eras. The Americas had giants like Goliath.

The idea that rafts were built by what appears to be a very early hominid (over 2 Million year old variety if we accept your quotes) and which survived until very recent times also throws out a whole lot of other Hobbesian paradigm BS. To travel across the horizon in a communal way would require carpentry skills and trigonometry as Fuller says - but do we credit creatures like Homo Erectus with that kind of knowledge?

And finally this find has not considered the facts and anthropologists are not eager to accept it or Mungo Man and the implications thereof. Thorne (the researcher on Mungo Man) says in a decade they will have to change almost all their theories that would have us believe the Paradigm we have been sold which throws out all manner of other things as Cremo documents in Hidden History. But you say it even though it is clear there is huge disagreement on this (Per this article saying so) just as there is on the Portuguese baby that is half Neanderthal, Kennewick Man, Diring Yuriakh and all the rest of history.

You really need to get your nose out of those things the academics like to say they know; which were written in an era of utter nonsense like Columbus discovered America and the Flat Earth (never was believed except by Ignorants) fiction.
Robert the Bruce
Quoting again -what you chose to overlook - we have:

And it demonstrates that Africa, the acknowledged cradle of humanity, does not hold all the answers to persistent questions of how -- and where -- we came to be.
Dan
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 28, 11:00 PM)
And the Caroline Islanders went to Hawaii 150,000 years ago by catamaran type rafts (botany proves this).

it does? I would like to see this proof


QUOTE
The rest of the stuff also does not address all the facts and time that it would take to develop the technology to travel the oceans

yes, these issues are interesting. but the new discovery offers nothing new on this issue.


QUOTE
You note the researchers disagree about it even being a homo and yet you quote it as fact while avoiding the fact that they specify it blows the Out of Africa theory out the door.

I said that it was either a homo or an intelligent primate species. I did not see that the 'out of africa' theory was 'blown out' in any way, either. If our ancestors did not breed with these mini-people, then this evidence does not contradict 'out of africa'


QUOTE
(contrary to your idea borne of the Hobbesian or Hegelian BS).

I have no such constraint to thought. This is just your projection.


QUOTE
The Americas had giants like Goliath.

really? what species are these creatures?


QUOTE
The idea that rafts were built by what appears to be a very early hominid (over 2 Million year old variety if we accept your quotes) and which survived until very recent times ...

is this idea not accepted by the anthropological community?


QUOTE
To travel across the horizon in a communal way would require carpentry skills and trigonometry as Fuller says - but do we credit creatures like Homo Erectus with that kind of knowledge?

why? as far as I know, community and traveling across the ocean require only cooperative social organization and luck with catching the right ocean current. No stars or trig needed, just a little desire and risk. As for constructing rafts one needs no mathematics, only the capacity to harvest the proper materials and assemble them properly. For sure significant intelligence is required, but not trigonometry.


QUOTE
And finally this find has not considered the facts and anthropologists are not eager to accept it or Mungo Man and the implications thereof.

I don't see what facts are being ignored in interpreting this find, or that this evidence yet supports the multi-region model of human origins


QUOTE
Thorne (the researcher on Mungo Man) says in a decade they will have to change almost all their theories that would have us believe the Paradigm we have been sold which throws out all manner of other things as Cremo documents in Hidden History.



Thorne doesn't seem to be the only credible witness to the 'mungo man' evidence. I am not convinced that I should take his interpretation as the correct one.


QUOTE
But you say it even though it is clear there is huge disagreement on this (Per this article saying so) just as there is on the Portuguese baby that is half Neanderthal, Kennewick Man, Diring Yuriakh and all the rest of history.

disagreement does not imply that your theories are right, just as this recent find does not either.


QUOTE
You really need to get your nose out of those things the academics like to say they know; which were written in an era of utter nonsense like Columbus discovered America and the Flat Earth (never was believed except by Ignorants) fiction.

nonsense
Robert the Bruce
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 28, 11:00 PM)
And the Caroline Islanders went to Hawaii 150,000 years ago by catamaran type rafts (botany proves this).

it does? I would like to see this proof {The Learning Channel}


QUOTE
The rest of the stuff also does not address all the facts and time that it would take to develop the technology to travel the oceans

yes, these issues are interesting. but the new discovery offers nothing new on this issue. {It does because the artifacts are on an island that was an island for at lest a million years - and they are not addressing the evolution of the technology that includes mapping the whole world as the Hadji Ahmed map proves was done at least 15,000 years ago.}

QUOTE
You note the researchers disagree about it even being a homo and yet you quote it as fact while avoiding the fact that they specify it blows the Out of Africa theory out the door.

I said that it was either a homo or an intelligent primate species. I did not see that the 'out of africa' theory was 'blown out' in any way, either. If our ancestors did not breed with these mini-people, then this evidence does not contradict 'out of africa'

{They say it does but I take it back to Gondwanaland and show Africa is still important.}

QUOTE
(contrary to your idea borne of the Hobbesian or Hegelian BS).

I have no such constraint to thought. This is just your projection. {You said their isloation from bad humans allowed them to live but humans were traveling the whole earth through all this time.}


QUOTE
The Americas had giants like Goliath.

really? what species are these creatures? {Check out Dr Kendall who has the heads of Patagonian Giants which fit the descriptions of Goliath who family was brought back by Solomon/David/Ophir and Hiram of Tyre. The reports of British officers including drawings going into the 18th Century and the graves all over NA.}


QUOTE
The idea that rafts were built by what appears to be a very early hominid (over 2 Million year old variety if we accept your quotes) and which survived until very recent times ...

is this idea not accepted by the anthropological community? {The anthropological community tries to tell us that man was a hunter-gatherer and not a seafarer earlier than 100,000 years ago - see the recent disovery of DNA in lice that confirms my theories.}


QUOTE
To travel across the horizon in a communal way would require carpentry skills and trigonometry as Fuller says - but do we credit creatures like Homo Erectus with that kind of knowledge?

why? as far as I know, community and traveling across the ocean require only cooperative social organization and luck with catching the right ocean current. No stars or trig needed, just a little desire and risk. As for constructing rafts one needs no mathematics, only the capacity to harvest the proper materials and assemble them properly. For sure significant intelligence is required, but not trigonometry.

{I'll take Bucky Fuller's word over yours and I have been to sea - have you?}


QUOTE
And finally this find has not considered the facts and anthropologists are not eager to accept it or Mungo Man and the implications thereof.

I don't see what facts are being ignored in interpreting this find, or that this evidence yet supports the multi-region model of human origins {They are not addressing any of the questins I raised and they continue to argue with Thorne who has also gone on to show Nanking Man was FAR older than previously thought. Did you check out the dates and variation of the Diring Yuriakh find?}


QUOTE
Thorne (the researcher on Mungo Man) says in a decade they will have to change almost all their theories that would have us believe the Paradigm we have been sold which throws out all manner of other things as Cremo documents in Hidden History.



Thorne doesn't seem to be the only credible witness to the 'mungo man' evidence. I am not convinced that I should take his interpretation as the correct one.

{He continues to be proven right.}


QUOTE
But you say it even though it is clear there is huge disagreement on this (Per this article saying so) just as there is on the Portuguese baby that is half Neanderthal, Kennewick Man, Diring Yuriakh and all the rest of history.

disagreement does not imply that your theories are right, just as this recent find does not either.

{Your position is that there is agreement among academics - thus you are now stating my position.}


QUOTE
You really need to get your nose out of those things the academics like to say they know; which were written in an era of utter nonsense like Columbus discovered America and the Flat Earth (never was believed except by Ignorants) fiction.

Robert the Bruce
He does not seem to be aware of the underwater city called Puma Puncu in Lake Titicaca and though he mentions, in a backhanded way, the theories characterized as 'more speculation, erudite, fantastic and even absurd, than any other ruined city.' he leaves me wondering why his description of the Gateway to God arch does not mention Atlantis and the Red lands or land of the red heads, like others do. The reasons for building a high plains city are clear to me but the thinking he and his quoted authors are engaged in, proceeds from invalid assumptions about the technological and cultural advancements of 'cells of culturally diffuse nature' or adepts. The high ground is easily defended with rock rolling and throwing devices and they had rock-making (geopolymerization) technology as we shall see, from the modern day patent holder/chemist. It would also have a variety of plants and temperature more hospitable to the NW Europeans who built it (The Red-Headed League of Megalith Builders).


On pages 155-6 he says: "The reverse side of the gateway is no less interesting. On each side of the doorway are rectangular niches so accurately cut and mathematically perfect that it is not possible to find a deviation of more than 1/50 inch {.5 millimeter) in their angles and surfaces. These niches are cut to a depth, of one foot (30 centimeters) in a series of concentric steps, and all this was done with stone tools.


By the temple is one remaining statue. It stands twice the height of a man and is known as the friar or 'bishop'. It appears to be holding a book. One of the early Spanish visitors, Cieza de Leon, has described two other statues which no longer exist, both 18 feet (5.5 meters) high. There was also once an immense stone lizard."


Yes, I can see the handiwork of the destroyers of civilization again. Fortunately not all Spanish were under such orders or willing to follow them, and there are forty of them who chronicled the same stories of white bearded men. There are also reports of a group in large number who landed in rafts and canoes (could this be outriggers) a long time before the Spaniards. The 'friar' or 'bishop' no doubt was left standing holding what might be the Bible for obvious reasons but its size tells me it might be a lifelike statue of the Patagonian Giants that we will cover later. The accuracy of the stonework is a marvel to all that see it and they aren't talking about the angled 'fit' that makes for earthquake resistance.


I met two archaeologists who own the Rum Point Inn near Placentia in Belize; it is a marvelous naturally beautiful place. They agreed with me that the rocks had to have been poured, and they had worked the site: whereas (alas) I have not been there or to Macchu Picchu which has an even more spiritual and austere presence and purpose than Puma Puncu which might have been built before the cities off Okinawa or Yoniguni that are said to be over 17,000 years old by some investigators. He has another entry on pages 158 and 159 that will be the end of what could be a book, dealing just with what he omits and distorts. One of the most enigmatic ‘fits’ in archaeology is the sarcophagus in the Great Pyramid that has a 1/150th tolerance in the corners. Needless to say even modern tools and drills would find this difficult to manufacture.


"Another account relates the story of a Spaniard who dug up a huge human head of gold {The Spanish would melt the art and artifacts so they could easily transport them according to official stories but it seems this kind of thing would be melted for other reasons as well. The ten foot tall 'Giants' may be the source of the Biblical Goliath.} whose face was similar to the statues above ground. The Spanish also found an image carved from a single block of stone 60 feet long and 14 feet in diameter (18 by 4 meters). It took thirty men three days to destroy it.


Another visitor, a Jesuit named Father Cobo, noticed the remarkable size of the stones and their great antiquity.


‘Who will not wonder how, they being so large, they could have been carried by human strength from the quarries where they were cut to the place where we now see them? And the matter becomes all the more puzzling when it is remembered that no such stones as these exist for leagues {A long distance and on mountain tops there is ABSOLUTELY no ramp or winch theory that works with rocks weighing up to 500 Tons.}about, and that it is well known that all the folk of this New World were lacking in such inventions as machines, wheels and windlasses, not to mention draught animals.’”


His report on the Maya, Kukulcan is of great import in seeing the culture and social graces or administrative skills that are (I think) related to the Bardic Tradition of education and specifically the Ovates. There can be no doubt as to the authenticity of this report. It is known and reported by many. If we do not accept these people knew what they are talking about (The Maya and the Inca) then how do we justify any history? This DENIAL is beyond arrogance as I have made clear. It is planned prejudice for the purpose of power and control of the Old World people who had been fed a lot of you know what and kept in the dark like the mushrooms. On pages 162 and 163 he says:


"Cortez, who reached Mexico in 1519 and Pizarro who conquered Peru in 1532 were welcomed as returning gods, the sons and brothers of the bearded white men who had brought the arts of civilization to these transatlantic lands. The chief of these culture-bearers was called Quetzalcoatl by the Aztecs, and Kukulcan by the Mayas.


According to Cortez, the Aztec Emperor Monteczuma told him:


‘We have known for a long time, by the writings handed down by our forefathers, that neither I nor any who inhabit it are natives of this land, but foreigners who came here from remote parts. We also know that we were led here by a ruler, whose subjects we all were, who returned to his country, and after a long time came here again and wished to take his people away {I think this is the time of the Norman invasion that threatened Tara.}. But they had married wives and built homes, and they would neither go with him nor recognize him as their king; therefore he went back. We have ever believed that those who were of his lineage would some time come and claim this land as his, and us as his vassals. From the direction whence you came, which is where the sun rises, and from what you tell me of this great lord who sent you, we believe and think it certain that he is our natural ruler, especially since you say that for a very long time he has known about us. Therefore you may feel certain that we shall obey you, and shall respect you as holding the place of that great lord, and in all the land I rule, you may give what orders you wish, and they shall be obeyed and everything we have shall be put at your service. And since you are thus in your own heritage and your own house, take your ease and rest from the fatigue of the journey and the wars you have had on your way.’”


It wasn't until after the Druids were almost all killed and the Bardic education became shorter and less disciplined that the Bards or Bairds were so uncouth that they would overstay their welcome. All of them would always be given the run of the house or manor whenever they were wanting, due to the high esteem they were held in. Monteczuma soon enough learned these men were not even close to couth and that they bore diseases of more than just the mind and spirit. Thus came a slaughter we can read about anywhere. Continuing to quote this part of 'Ancient Mysteries' we see the kind of wisdom that good 'brothers' are capable of when they are inclined to help rather than conquer.


"The Spaniards learned that Quetzacoatl had been a supreme god or high priest, a teacher, a wise law-giver {The 'Senchus Mor'?} and merciful judge. He forbade human sacrifice, teaching that flowers, bread and incense were all that God demanded. He prohibited wars and forbade fighting, violence and robbery. Although the Aztec religion required sacrifice of humans {We shall show some 'harvesting reasons' and crime prevention later.}, he was held in affectionate veneration. He was tall of stature, white or reddish in complexion, clothed in 'a long white robe strewn with red crosses, and carrying a staff in his hand.' {The Knights Templar or St. John's might see something here.} He brought with him builders, painters, astronomers and draughtsmen. He passed from place to place and disappeared."


The Aztecs took over the Mayan culture by an arrangement that ties in with the Toltecs and their calendar. Their calendar is a history and has prophetic/astrological elements. The Aztec calendar that I had in my Vegas bedroom bathroom is a near duplicate of the Mayan except for the centerpiece which is an Aztec deity. This calendar starts telling the future in the period around the 36th Century B.C. and I have read a research book on calendars of all cultures that explains a little of it. It is important and sometimes difficult to find research that has no cherished opinions to sell. So the relevance of this calendar alone establishes a much more ancient history of the Maya people than Furneaux and the Mexican oriented archaeologists have posited with their talk of Olmecs and others. The Aztecs revered the Maya people and their knowledge: and when we see the battles or contests that reflect the warriors’ trade we should not assume they were as violent or bestial as the white man.


The need for new land and power was less of a factor by far and the empire existed in the 'Brotherhood' everyone felt connected to, and they knew they were all very spiritual people with immortal souls. There are always exceptions just as there are criminals and crazy people. To what extent the Blackfoot or others might have been cannibalistic before the white man and what the meaning of their cannibalism was, I do not know. The large majority were very much living a pure and spiritual code. The Cherokee had indoor plumbing and schools as well as a system of laws and agriculture that made their white competitors envy them. It wasn't that they learned from the white man how to do these things; it was the other way around.
Robert the Bruce
The Brint Institute is a great place to see my book. Hopefully some day it will be on the NYTimes best-seller list (Ha).

http://portal.brint.com/cgi-bin/amazon.cgi...earch&locale=us
Dan
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 29, 07:17 AM)
QUOTE
I would like to see this proof {The Learning Channel}

I can't find it on the TLC website. can you help?


QUOTE

the new discovery offers nothing new on this issue. {It does because the artifacts are on an island that was an island for at lest a million years - and they are not addressing the evolution of the technology that includes mapping the whole world as the Hadji Ahmed map proves was done at least 15,000 years ago.}

800,000 year-old artifacts had already been found on the island, right? What new problems w.r.t. prehistoric sea-travel are introduced by finding a new species of primate/hominid on the island?
btw, I can't find much material on the 'Hadjj Ahmed' map, can you direct me to more resources?


QUOTE
{They say it does but I take it back to Gondwanaland and show Africa is still important.}

the 'they' is the article writer who's opinion may not be fully informed, so I do not take the opinion as 'proof' that 'out of africa' has been 'blown out of the water'. As for africa being the origin of hominids, that doesn't seem to be in doubt by any camp at this point.


QUOTE
{You said their isloation from bad humans allowed them to live but humans were traveling the whole earth through all this time.}

These 'flores' creatures may well have been completely isolated after or soon after landing, eliminating the need to compete with bigger, stronger, smarter hominids for the limited resources


QUOTE
Check out Dr Kendall who has the heads of Patagonian Giants which fit the descriptions of Goliath who family was brought back by Solomon/David/Ophir and Hiram of Tyre. The reports of British officers including drawings going into the 18th Century and the graves all over NA.

bigfoot lives? I can't seem to find any decent literature of these accounts. Can you direct me to some?


QUOTE
{The anthropological community tries to tell us that man was a hunter-gatherer and not a seafarer earlier than 100,000 years ago - see the recent disovery of DNA in lice that confirms my theories.}

The issue of possible seafaring near Flores by homo erectus seems to be a legitimate debate, but intentional seafaring on artifical rafts is not the only possible explanation. And where am I supposed to find your DNA/lice evidence or know what theories you are talking about?


QUOTE

I don't see what facts are being ignored in interpreting this find, or that this evidence yet supports the multi-region model of human origins {They are not addressing any of the questins I raised and they continue to argue with Thorne who has also gone on to show Nanking Man was FAR older than previously thought. Did you check out the dates and variation of the Diring Yuriakh find?}

What questions did you raise? And what does Thorne hold that the Nanking evidence implies?


QUOTE
Thorne doesn't seem to be the only credible witness to the 'mungo man' evidence. I am not convinced that I should take his interpretation as the correct one.

{He continues to be proven right.}

sez who?


QUOTE
disagreement does not imply that your theories are right, just as this recent find does not either.

{Your position is that there is agreement among academics - thus you are now stating my position.}

When did I state the position that academics agree? I simply hold that the academic outliers must prove their case if they wish their idea to supplant the existing standard view.
Robert the Bruce
Dear Dan

Yes, scholars like me have to prove our point and weigh all the evidence. My specialty is integration of the various fields and I am not paid to study some limited era or group of people. Have you any idea why there is no doctoral program on the Phoenicians?

You said anthropologists were in agreement - I said not. Now you say not but much prove their case - and as Thorne says it will take time for the academic community to catch up. He says a decade on the one area referring to the many hominids that were developing allover the earth. I give specifics and this is just something more to fit the picture and disprove the old way of looking at things. But it has been said for millennia that there were seven major hominid cultures in antiquity - I would not categorize the Flores Islanders as such - I think they are a cross bred and I think it possible that ancients knew a lot about genetics. Thus Jacobsen's Cretan Hybrid grains from 13,000 years ago also fit the theory. But you will find many academics still say grain harvesting began in the Cradle of Covilization and 5,000 years later - which was not even Hybrid.

The Hadji Ahmed Map was just sold at a very high price to the Library of Congress if I remember what my brother said an article in his trade journal (our family business is mapping) reported. You can see it at my publisher's site under graphics not included in Diverse Druids.

The Cable TV channel that had the documentary on Hawaian plants coming from the Carline Islands is in one or more of my books but I really don't think you look too hard for these things (although that one might be difficult to find) so I am not motivated to supply any more free info than just comes off the top of my head. If I find some reference to it in the normal course of my research I will post it as I recently did on the dumping of brain to computer with some three separate sources. I doubt I will be looking for anything related to this because my history books are pretty much complete.

You say Flores Islanders were able to avoid bigger humans - hmmm. Mungo Man was not much bigger and they existence of these people on Flores may pre-date Mungo Man unless I am right about Mungo Man being the teachers of the DNN and having been world travelers long before white man existed. Homo Habilis and Erectus were no great threat and they had to watch out for gigantopithecus who may be your Sasquatch or Yeti according to Childress who reports on an English academic who thinks they are Neanderthals and trading with people in Kamchatka still to this day. There is much agreement that the Yeti do exist and I have seen a scalp in a picture from that part of the world. You might look at the hair found by Professor Orr in the Pac NW recently.

I posted something on the recent newspaper articles on the divergence of the lice DNA that confirms world travel before 100,000 years ago. I think you even commented on it but I don't remember putting the sources here for you because I am (again) not motivated to do your research and you do not read my work anyway as you have often said.

Kendall and the Patagonian issue was in Ancient American I think - again I am not working on those books right now. It is not all that strong despite the pictures from two museums and his reports - I did post contemporaneous reports for you already. The statue of the so-called FRIAR being one that survived if you would read it or remember.

When I see evidence that you have read one of my books I will be a lot more motivated to answer questions based on having looked at my sources. Perhaps you need to read these Professors first - Covey, Kelley, Bernal, Campbell, Flinders-Petrie, Mair, Scherz, Joan Price, Lanning, Howells, Coon, Coe (since retirement), Heyerdahl's many sources, Gimbutas, Nuttall, Humboldt and hundreds more. It might be too hard to take one of my books if you don't read or research things I refer to. Otherwise you can buy the CD and get the whole compendium which is a distillation of thousands of top academics.

Does it cross your mind that almost all those who have read Diverse Druids (NONE of whom I have met) and write glowingly of it as well as the listing with the Brint Institute might mean it is worth a look?



Robert the Bruce
After having written this book and twenty others detailing the ‘travelers’ impact on the world’s cultural evolution I found that the small and troublesome lice confirm my speculations and evidences. There are two types of lice although they look identical. DNA shows they developed separately and diverged from one source at least 100,000 years ago. One time-line in the on-going research speaks to the other end of the evidences I have proposed for the arrival of people (Homo line) in the Americas. This suggests 1.18 million years ago. So the North and South Americas have a distinctive lice and it will be interesting to see if some remains of lice can be found on more recent human remains or mummies.
Dan
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 29, 09:13 PM)
Yes, scholars like me have to prove our point and weigh all the evidence. My specialty is integration of the various fields and I am not paid to study some limited era or group of people. Have you any idea why there is no doctoral program on the Phoenicians?

hey, that's great RTB. I would be more impressed if you were published (or even just considered for publication) in credible peer-reviewed journals.


QUOTE
You said anthropologists were in agreement

I did? where?


QUOTE
Thorne says it will take time for the academic community to catch up. He says a decade on the one area referring to the many hominids that were developing allover the earth.

so? anybody can make claims, doesn't mean they are correct. Maybe he will be vindicated by force of evidence; only time will tell I suppose


QUOTE
I give specifics and this is just something more to fit the picture and disprove the old way of looking at things. But it has been said for millennia that there were seven major hominid cultures in antiquity - I would not categorize the Flores Islanders as such - I think they are a cross bred and I think it possible that ancients knew a lot about genetics. Thus Jacobsen's Cretan Hybrid grains from 13,000 years ago also fit the theory. But you will find many academics still say grain harvesting began in the Cradle of Covilization and 5,000 years later - which was not even Hybrid.

It seems you are taking quite a huge leap past the mainstream anthropological community in your ideas. I am not saying your ideas are wrong (I am not an anthropologist), but I suspect that they can't withstand real scrutiny in the field because the evidence supporting them is not very sound if existing at all.


QUOTE
The Hadji Ahmed Map was just sold at a very high price to the Library of Congress if I remember what my brother said an article in his trade journal (our family business is mapping) reported. You can see it at my publisher's site under graphics not included in Diverse Druids.

I would be interested to know if anybody has published ideas about it in peer-reviewed journals;and if so, what conclusions and/or speculations were presented

QUOTE
The Cable TV channel that had the documentary on Hawaian plants coming from the Carline Islands is in one or more of my books but I really don't think you look too hard for these things (although that one might be difficult to find) so I am not motivated to supply any more free info than just comes off the top of my head. If I find some reference to it in the normal course of my research I will post it as I recently did on the dumping of brain to computer with some three separate sources. I doubt I will be looking for anything related to this because my history books are pretty much complete.

I searched the Learning Channel website and came up empty. I would be interested in the references you used for your book.


QUOTE
You say Flores Islanders were able to avoid bigger humans - hmmm. Mungo Man was not much bigger and they existence of these people on Flores may pre-date Mungo Man unless I am right about Mungo Man being the teachers of the DNN and having been world travelers long before white man existed.

It's not hard to imagine that such islands as Flores were difficult to access. This natural barrier is sufficient to protect them from the other hominids roaming the continents. Further, you seem to be speculating a bit about the intelligence of these creatures. I would be interested in any credible evidence that supports these speculations.


QUOTE
Homo Habilis and Erectus  were no great threat and they had to watch out for gigantopithecus who may be your Sasquatch or Yeti according to Childress who reports on an English academic who thinks they are Neanderthals and trading with people in Kamchatka still to this day. There is much agreement that the Yeti do exist and I have seen a scalp in a picture from that part of the world. You might look at the hair found by Professor Orr in the Pac NW recently.

okeydokey


QUOTE
I posted something on the recent newspaper articles on the divergence of the lice DNA that confirms world travel before 100,000 years ago. I think you even commented on it but I don't remember putting the sources here for you because I am (again) not motivated to do your research and you do not read my work anyway as you have often said.

I would be quite interested in reading any available scientific analysis of these observations. Surely you reference your sources in your book? surely you have sources better than 'recent newspaper articles'?


QUOTE
Kendall and the Patagonian issue was in Ancient American I think - again I am not working on those books right now. It is not all that strong despite the pictures from two museums and his reports - I did post contemporaneous reports for you already. The statue of the so-called  FRIAR being one that survived if you would read it or remember.

I have an idea, Robert. You seem to be quite good at accumulating all this information but quite terrible at organizing it into form that is reasonably accessible. Why don't you create a webpage that organizes all your stuff so that we can avoid this whole problem of inaccess? I don't mind reading evidence and analysis that is straightforward and easily accessible. What I don't like is reading 10,000 words of opinion and speculation, hoping to find some kind of credible evidence buried within.


QUOTE
When I see evidence that you have read one of my books I will be a lot more motivated to answer questions based on having looked at my sources. Perhaps you need to read these Professors first - Covey, Kelley, Bernal, Campbell, Flinders-Petrie, Mair, Scherz, Joan Price, Lanning, Howells, Coon, Coe (since retirement), Heyerdahl's many sources, Gimbutas, Nuttall, Humboldt and hundreds more. It might be too hard to take one of my books if you don't read or research things I refer to. Otherwise you can buy the CD and get the whole compendium which is a distillation of thousands of top academics.

again, maybe you just need to do a better job of organizing your ideas instead of being dismissive of those who ask for simple, straightforward reference. It is not an unreasonable idea, clear and accessible organization. Dontcha think?


QUOTE
Does it cross your mind that almost all those who have read Diverse Druids (NONE of whom I have met) and write glowingly of it as well as the listing with the Brint Institute might mean it is worth a look?

what crosses my mind is that you appear to have never been even close to published in any credible peer-reviewed journals, and never seem to produce much in the way of credible evidence when asked.
Robert the Bruce
Dan

What an idiot! Really pulled a boner this time.

Why would you think a huge sum would be apid by the Library of Congress - the Yale people who went th e peer review route got burned by the Vinland Map - do some research.

And BTW did you not a physics site (professor search) ran one of my pieces and what do you think of the Brint Institute.

Besides if you only go by the mainstream you will believe in things like the Flat Earth or think you and they really know what gravity is to the full extent. Have you read Kuhn and how he and others detail the weakness of peer review - try Philip Johnson and his stuff about the Knowledge Filter or Professor Graham Good on Literary Theory - Oh I forgot - you can't read or comprehend anything that doesn't fit with the paradigm. It boils up all those fears or night tremors you get.

But if you would lose you security blanket (Linus) you might also lose the fears that haunt your mind.
Robert the Bruce
Dan

As to the rest of your garbage - the newspapers carried it this week - don't you get the newspaper - it was under Jay Ingram's name - he is the host of The Discovery Channel and he quoted a lot of experts and some varying POVs.

And why would I give an idiot like you the things you ask for anyway - when I do you just ssay you did not read them or you purposefully avoid exposing the fact that I did provide them (as with the brain contents to computer chips). Get real!
Dan
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 30, 08:54 PM)
Dan

What an idiot! Really pulled a boner this time.

Why would you think a huge sum would be apid by the Library of Congress - the Yale people who went th e peer review route got burned by the Vinland Map - do some research.

so there is no peer-reviewed research of the map, eh?


QUOTE
And BTW did you not a physics site (professor search) ran one of my pieces and what do you think of the Brint Institute.

can you offer a reference or hyperlink to whatever/whoever is using your ideas?



QUOTE
Besides if you only go by the mainstream you will believe in things like the Flat Earth or think you and they really know what gravity is to the full extent. Have you read Kuhn and how he and others detail the weakness of peer review - try Philip Johnson and his stuff about the Knowledge Filter or Professor Graham Good on Literary Theory - Oh I forgot - you can't read or comprehend anything that doesn't fit with the paradigm. It boils up all those fears or night tremors you get.

But if you would lose you security blanket (Linus) you might also lose the fears that haunt your mind.

that's garbage, RTB wacko.gif
Robert the Bruce
The map has been reviewed for over 500 years by all manner of experts.

I did provide the link to professor search just as I have provided whole TOC and Biblios with all manner of top ppeople as well as articles from Nobel Laureates and the like - but you provide nothing but noise and BS.

You are a danger to society if you are really infecting kids through teaching them and being the kind of role model you are.

Dan
I haven't seen any links. where are they?
Robert the Bruce
One is in this very thread - fool.
Robert the Bruce
here is a biblio from one of my 47 books. i also give details within the body of the work and not in the biblio when i feel it is important to know who and what credentials are involved.

a:

1) the toronto star, article from the greater toronto section 'b', 'tough times teach those who have eyes to see', by jim coyle, 5/1/2001
2) 'penthouse interview with l. ron hubbard, jr. ', from www.rickross.com/ reference/scientology/scien240,.html. - pgs. 11 & 12 of 14, from 1983, june issue.
3) 'popular mechanics', 'when ufos land', by jim wilson, may 2001, pgs. 64-7.
4) 'shamanic experience', by kenneth meadows, 1991, element books, may 1994, reprint, pgs. 30-31.
5) ibid., pgs. 31-32.
6) http://www.viking-z.org/vikg.htm
7) 'holy grail across the atlantic', by michael bradley, hounslow press, toronto, 1989, 1999 ed., pgs. 178-9.
8) 'holy blood, holy grail', by baigent and leigh, with lincoln, pgs. 288 - 304.
9) 'white goddess', by robert graves, gives evidence for a connection between 'arimathaea' and 'almathes', pgs. 51, 85, 195, 218, 319, 355 and 437. these notes are from 'holy grail across the atlantic'.
10) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 178-9.
11) 'ancient mysteries', by peter james and nick thorpe, 1999, ballantine publishing, pgs. 440-444.
12) ibid., pgs.339 & 340.
13) 'grail knights of north america', by michael bradley, hounslow press, toronto, 1998, from notes on pages 398 & 399.
14) ibid.
15) ibid, from notes, pg. 406."personal correspondence with electronics technician michael twose, faculty of music, university of toronto. but see gardner's 'bloodline of the holy grail', pg. 259, where it is also stated that the ark was a powerful electrical condenser. this is a common conclusion among engineers who have studied the ark's specifications.”
16) 'pursuit’ (journal of the society for the investigation of the unexplained), 'blasted baghdad batteries', vol. 3, no.4, (fall 1970) pgs.139-142.
17) 'pursuit', 'bothersome beads from bubastes', vol. 5, no. l. (spring 1972), page 17.
18) 'grail knights of north america', op. cit., pgs. 159-165.
19) archaeology magazine, jan/feb 2001, article 'camelot in kentucky' by james wiseman, pg. 10.
20) 'unexplained phenomena', rough guide, bob rickard and john mitchell, aug. 2000, pgs. 222-3.

b:

1) 'secret societies', by david v. barrett, esoteric expert of british intelligence, blandford, london, 1997 & 1999, paperback edition, pgs. 117-119 brings us brings us 'knight, stephen, 'the brotherhood', granada, 1983, pg.236. it'd be nice if the 'octopus' was resource based.
2) ibid.
3) s.h. hooke, 'middle eastern mythology', penguin, 1963, pg. 82.
4) walton hannah, 'darkness visible', britons publishing co., 1963, pg. 136. the venus project has a fullerean plan to re-structure society that incorporates all technology including nanotech and nanotubes that would allow a real spiritual 'brotherhood'.
5) 'secret societies', op. cit.
6) 'and none of it was nonsense', by betty "rosen with help from her husband harold, 1988, sub-titled 'the power of storytelling in school', scholastic, back cover and pages 7 & 8.
7) 'fanon's dialectic of experience', by ato sekyi-otu, 1996, harvard university press, cambridge, pgs. 147-149.
8) leonard george, 'the encyclopedia of heresies and heretics', pg. 157, from 'secret societies', op. cit.
9) peter partner, 'the murdered magicians: the templars and their myths', aquarian edn., 1987 pgs. xx-xxi, 'murdered' refers to a ritual of masonry in the 'cosmic ritual of seasons' like wicca and other supposedly pagan worship. the individual initiate is identified with the hiram abiff character rather than osiris or the holly king. it makes clear the threat of breaking the code of silence in the masonic interpretation of the age-old tradition that goes back at least 25,000 years.
10) 'secret societies', op. cit., pgs. 54-57.
11) babcock, william h., 'legendary islands of the atlantic; a study in medieval geography', american geographic society, ny, 1922, pg.6.
12) ibid., pg. 47.
13) ibid., pg. 147.
14) norderskjold, a.e., 'periplus; an essay on the early history of charts and sailing-directions', 1897, burt franklin, ny, nd.
15) babcock, op. cit., pg. 148.
16) ibid., pg.149.
17) odelain and seguineau, 'dictionary of proper names and places in the bible', s. v. 'attalia’, pgs. 46-7.
18) hosea, 'atlantis: a statement of the atlantic theory respecting aboriginal, civilization', 'the cincinnati quarterly journal of science', vol. 11, no. 3, july 1875, pg. 199.
19) ibid., pgs. 199-200.
20) personal communication with clifford wright, the professor of south asian studies at the school of oriental and african studies, london, in april,1999.
21) ibid.
22) herodotus, 'history', 5, 58.
23) odelain and séguineau, 'dictionary of proper names and places in the bible', s. v. athaliah', pg. 46. confirmed by jo ann hackett, the professor of biblical hebrew at hebrew university, ma., march 1999.
24) ibid., hackett.
25) harris, 'a grammar of phoenician language', american oriental society, new haven, conn., 1936, pg. 136
26) j. lemprière, 'a classical dictionary', routledge, london, 1919, s. v. 'atlas', pg. 92.
27) 'gateway to atlantis', by andrew collins, intro by david rohl, headline books, chatham, kent, u.k., 2000, pgs. 196-200 includes many foregoing references.
28) 'encyclopedia of world mythology', forward by rex warner, peerage books, london, 1975, pg. 150.
29) 'the rise of the greeks', by michael grant, 1996, wiedenfeld & nicholson, pg. 157, london.
30) ibid.
31) herodotus, 111, 122, v.28.
32) 'the greeks' op. cit., pgs. 156-7.
33) ibid., pg.168.
34) ibid., pg. 173.
35) aristotle, 'politics', 11.2.
36) herodotus, i, 163.
37) 'the greeks', op. cit., pg.176.
38) ibid, pg. 177.
39) 'atlas of ancient archaeology', edited by jacquetta hawkes, mcgraw hill, 1974, pg. 127.
40) 'the greeks', op. cit., pg.311.
41) 'atlas of ancient archaeology', op. cit., pg. 110.
42) 'carthage', op. cit., pgs. 53, 98.
43) 'a celtic reader', compiled and edited by john matthews, foreword by p.l. travers, aquarian press, thorsons publishing, wellingboro, northhamptonshire, england, pg. 104.
44) ibid., pgs. 104-105.
45) http://www.cnn.com/2003/tech/science/08/08...yape/index.html this report from top scientists in the field raises the possibility of sasquatch and relates to geneticists who do not understand the possibility of intent and desire in the evolutionary impact upon our genes.
46) ‘a celtic reader’, op. cit., pgs. 118-119.
47) 'dictionary of battles', ed. by david chandler, henry holt & co., ny., 1987, 1st american edition, pg.12
48)'encyclopaedia britannica, macropaedia', vol. 2, 15th ed., 1995 pg. 584.
49) 'new york public library, book of chronologies', 1995, nypl, pg. 5.
50) 'archaeology magazine', may/june 2001, article, 'sacred sands' by david o'connor and diana craig patch, and 'moored in the desert' by d. o'connor and matthew adams, pg. 45.
51) 'a celtic reader', op. cit., from an article written by w. dinan first published in 1911, pg. 181.
52) ibid, from an article called 'the pretanic background in britain and ireland', by eoin macneill, orig. publ., in 1933, pgs. 128 & 131.
53) 'flathuisa l erend, book of leinster', pg. 15, col.1, line 15, seq.; cf. 'book of ballymote', fol, 231; etc.
54) 'a celtic reader', op. cit., pg. 237, orig. publ. in 1903 by de jubanville.
55) 'the high kings', by joy chant, 1983, george allen and unwin, u.k., pgs. 166-7.
56) 'the wisdom of sufism, sacred readings from the ‘gathas', hazrat inayat khan, vol. xiii (revised), 2000, element books, in association with sufi movement hq, geneva. pg. 113.
57) 'leonardo the scientist', by carlo zammattio, engineer augusto marrinni, universita catholica of milan, anna maria brizio, universita statale of milan, hutchinson & co., london, 1981, pg. 7.
58) ibid., pg. 101.
59) ibid., pgs. 161-165.
60) ‘in my way', lord george brown, gollancz 1971, pelican ed., pg. 148.
61) 'secret societies', op. cit., pgs. 196-7.
62) 'the book of the dead', intro. by e.a. wallis budge of the british museum, carol publishing, 1990 ed., pgs. xii-xiv.
63) 'secret societies' op. cit., pgs. 142-9, brings us these authorities and great scholars but doesn't create much integration of previous knowledge to modern re-workers of esoterics in tarot. his knowledge of esoterics and symbology is well demonstrated in this excellent discourse. 'fred gettings, 'the book of tarot', hamlyn 1973, pg. 139.
64) brian innes, 'the tarot', macdonald 1977, pg. 7.
65) eliphas levi, 'transcendental magic: its doctrine and ritual', trans. by a.e. waite, book one, 'doctrine', chapter 10, pg. 129.
66) papua, 'the tarot of the bohemians', george redway, 1896, trans. by a.p. morton, chapter 9, pg. 89.
67) ibid., chapter 19, pg. 298.
68) ibid., chapter 9, pg. 82.
69) ibid., chapter 19, pg. 300 (italics in original)
70) the pack designed by paul foster case, founder of the occult school builders of the adytium. {a rosicrucian 'feeder' group. they have an excellent tarot course through correspondence but i recommend letting your own intuition and interpretations or integrations develop first and then, if you need it; take their course.} is very similar to waite's - it is also based on the mathers pack - but is much better executed; it is perhaps unfortunate that waite published his first.
71) 'secret societies', op. cit., pgs. 142-148.
72) 'the wisdom of sufism', op. cit., pg. 136.
73) ibid., pg. 17.

c:

1) 'amnesty international', by marsha brown, 1992, exley publications, pgs. 11 & 12.
2) 'unexplained phenomena', op. cit., pgs. 205 & 6.
3) 'a fire in the mind, the life of joseph campbell', by stephen and robin larsen, anchor-doubleday, ny., 1991, paperback edition, 1993, pgs. 349-350., from an interview with jean erdmann, june 1990.
4) 'irish wisdom', by connor macdari, 1923, available through kessinger publishing now, pgs. 234 & 5.
5) 'inside the brotherhood', by martin short, grafton, 1989, pgs. 120-122.
6) spoken at the 275th anniversary of the founding of the first grand lodge, earls court, 1992, video, 'freemasonry, today, tomorrow', from 'secret societies' see below.
7) 'secret societies', op. cit., pgs. 109-110.
8) http://kjb-av-1611.lima.net.pe/mason.html,10/7/00, pg. 4 of 13.
9) ibid., pgs. 4 & 5.
10) 'turning the tide', by noam chomsky, montreal, 2nd. rev. edn., 1987, pgs. 218-9 brings us these references, hans morgenthau, 'in defense of the national interest', (knopf, 1951). pgs. 80-1.
11) ibid., pgs. 218-9.
12) 'the life of admiral columbus, by his son ferdinand', trans. and annot. by benjamin kern, the folio society, london, 1960.
13) 'fair gods and stone faces; ancient seafarers and the new world's most intriguing riddle', 1963, constance irwin, w.h. allen, london, 1964, pg. 278-9.
14) irwin, pg. 280; heyerdahl, 'early man and the ocean', pg. 82; hutchinson, silow & stephens, 'the evolution of gosypium and the differentiation of the cultivated cottons'.
15) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 360-1.
16) 'unexplained phenomena', op. cit., pg. 249-250.
17)http://www.kurzweilai.net/news/ there are many great articles on this valuable site. the one quoted deals with the quantum dot.
18) 'the 12th planet', by zechariah sitchin, avon books, ny, 1978, pg. 171, from 'genesis of the grail kings' by gardner.
19) 'blue blood on the mat', anchor press, tiptree, by sir atholl oakeley, pg. 159.
20) 'genesis of the grail kings', by laurence gardner, bantam, london, 1999, pgs. 45-46.

d:

1) 'biblical archaeology review', may/june 2001, 'pagan yahwism; the folk religion of ancient israel' by ephraim stern, pgs. 21-29.
2) ibid., 'sacred stones in the desert', by uzi avner, pg.31.
3) 'the golden bough', by sir james frazer, 'a study in magic and religion', 1922, intro. by george w. stocking, jr., penguin books, 1996 ed., pg.399.
4) 'st. augustine 'confessions', trans., with intro. by r.s. pine-coffin, penguin 1961, 10th reprint, 1976, pg. 12.
5) 'the dead sea scrolls', by millar burrows, yale university., the viking press, ny., 1956, pgs. 284-89.
6) 'the will to meaning', by viktor e. frankl, 1989 expanded edn., meridian penguin, pgs. 64-65.
7) 'you cannot die', by ian currie, somerville, 1978, inside flap and pages 321-323.
8) 'unexplained phenomena', op. cit., pgs. 171-73.
9) this article covers string theory and challenges to many scientific theories some still think are absolute as well as supporting some aspects of conscious collectiveness or design affinity. http://www.cfpf.org.uk/articles/rdp/caasqp/caasqp.html
10) 'depression, the mood disorder', by francis mondimore, m.d., johns hopkins university, press, baltimore, flap.
11) 'unexplained phenomena', op. cit., pgs. 60-1.
12) 'a fire in the mind', op. cit., pgs. 410-13.
13) 'democracy in america', i, quoted by takaki, 'iron ages', 80-1, from chomsky, 'turning the tide'.
14) miller, 'benevolent assimilation', 78, 74, citing the 'new york criterion', and 'salt lake city tribune'; 123, 2201, 247; s sixto lopez, 'the outlook', april 13, 1901.
15) francis jennings, 'the invasion of america' (u of north carolina 1975), especially chapter 13; 46, 110, 83, 173n, 12. editorial nyt, aug. 6, 1954; see tncw, 99 for further discussion. chomsky says: "a notable contemporary parallel is the takeover of palestine on scriptural authority, 'dunam after dunam', with comparable disdain for the rights of native populations (if they even existed, a fact that many deny, just as myths of sparse and nomadic indian populations persisted on ideological grounds, until recent years; jennings, cf.).
16) 'turning the tide', op. cit., pgs. 162-164.
17) 'a classical dictionary', routledge, london, 1919, by j. lemprière, s. v., 'hesperia', pg. 273.
18) ibid., s. v., 'hesperus', pg. 274.
19) hesiod, 'theogany', v.v., 214-216, 518.
20) apollodorus, 'the library', ii, v. ii.
21) honorius of autun, in ashe, 'land to the west: st. brendan's voyage to america’, pg. 139.
22) ashe, geoffrey, 'land to the west: st. brendan's voyage to america', collins, london, 1962. 1962, pg. 137.
23) columbus, 'the life of admiral columbus by his son ferdinand', ibid, pg. 37.
24) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 90-92.
25) 'the illustrated encyclopedia of divination', by stephen karcher, element books, shaftesbury, 1997, pg. 7.
26) 'the book of answers', by carol bolt, 1999, hyperion, front of book with no page numbers.
27) ‘the toronto star’, sunday, august 10, 2003, books, d14, review by hans werner of ‘the secret voyage of sir francis drake, 1577-1580’, titles ‘the pirate explorer’.
28) the healing power of dreams' by patricia garfield, ph.d., simon & schuster, ny. 1991, pg. 235 & 236, brings us, emily martin, 'the woman in the body: a cultural analysis of reproduction', beacon, 1987.
29) ibid, on garfield.
30) gilmore, donald y., and linda s. mcelroy, 'across before columbus? evidence for transoceanic contact with the americas prior to 1492,' neara publications, edgecomb, maine, 1998, pg. 299.
31) ibid., pg.300.
32) ibid.
33) mcglone, wm. r., phillip m. leonard, james l. guthrie, rollan w. gillespie, james p. whittall jr., 'ancient american inscriptions - plow marks or history?' {incredibly, the plow mark theory advanced by those ignorant of ogham is alive and well in academia.} early sites research society, sutton, mass., 1993. pgs. 21 & 24.
34) campbell, joseph, and m.j. abadie, 'the mythic image', 2 vols., princeton university press, princeton, n.j., 1974, pgs. 145-7.
35) fritze, 'legend and lore of the americas before 1492', s. v., 'jomon/valdivia transpacific contacts 3,000 bc., pgs. 141-2; see also pearson, 'migration from japan to ecuador: the japanese evidence', 'american anthropology', vol. 70, 1968, pgs. 85-6. {national post and others covered this in 1999 and made clear no previous existent industry could have developed to the jomon style pottery despite the 1989 assertions of the canadian museum of civilization stating it had been locally developed in their expensive and impressive lie 'ancient america'. they had the audacity to suggest this was the best evidence of pre-columbian contact of cultural natures with america and then said it was not true anyway!}
36) see meggers, 'jomon-valdivia similarities: convergence or contact?' in 'across before columbus', op. cit., pgs. 11-19.
37) guthrie, 'human lymphocite antigens: apparent afro-asiatic, south asian & european hla's in indigenous american populations', unpubl. draft, feb. 1998. {is this like the rh-factor of basque-mayan similarity and the linguistic grammar family of vietnam, maya, denhe and basque similarity? are these things going to be characterized as co-incidental convergence?}
38) see, for example. gordon, pgs. 21-35, irwin pgs. 175-88.
39) vaillant, 'a bearded mystery’, 'natural history', vol. 31, may/june 1931, pgs. 243-52.
40) ibid., pg.250.
41) stirling, 'great stone faces of the mexican jungle', 'national geographic magazine', vol.78, no. 3, september 1940, pgs. 326-7. see also irwin, pg. 144-54.
42) ibid., pg.153. .
43) ibid., pgs.151, 156.
44) ibid., pgs. 156-7.
45) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 134-136 brought us many foregoing references and there are numerous other current authors from the astronaut michael collins to zechariah sitchen who have done books on the subject. the olmec are a clear evidence of multi-racial 'brother- hood' and early internationalism or ecumenical gnosticism.
46) ibid.
47) 'nietzsche and postmodernism', by dave robinson, icon books, 1999, cambridge, back cover.
48) "for a more detailed examination of christian 'heresies' see my 'sects, cults, and alternative religions', blandford, 1996" - from secret societies, op. cit.
49) 'secret societies', op. cit., pg. 43.

e:

1) 'captain james cook and the explorers of the south pacific', intro. by astronaut michael collins, by david haney, chelsea house publ. ny, 1992, pg. 8.
2) 'the lost continent of mu', 7th printing, orig. from 1959, dedicated to william niven of austin, texas, where the university of texas at austin seems a major part of 'working' with mexican authorities to keep the lid on julsrud, my stele and other things like hueyatlaco with its 250,000 year old human artifacts. perhaps this will change with president fox. published by neville spearman ltd., london, pgs. 129 & 130.
3) ibid., pgs.130 & 131.
4) ibid., pgs. 131 & 132.
5) ibid., pg. 216.
6) ibid., pgs.200 & 201.
7) ibid., pgs. 112 & 113.
8) national geographic, vol. 182, no.3, sept.1992, 'mural masterpieces of ancient cacaxtla' by george e. stuart, pgs.120-136, especially 122.
9) ibid., pgs. 131-133.
10) 'the lost continent of mu', op. cit., pgs. 113-114.,
11) ibid., pgs.62 & 63.
12) 'encyclopedia britannica, micropaedia', vol. 4, 15th edition, 1995, pg.333
13) ibid., macropaedia, vol.25, 15th edition, 1995, pg. 108.
14) 'ancient mysteries', op. cit., pg.263.
15) ibid., pg.261.
16) 'in school', by ken dryden, 1995, mcclelland & stewart inc., rear flap.
17) 'mysteries of the unexplained', reader's digest, 1982, pg.77.
18) 'ancient inventions', by james and thorpe, pg.350, michael o'mara books, 1994, 1996, london, cf. 'gateway to atlantis'.
19) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs.115-116.
20) 'the pageant of cuba', hudson strode, jarrolds, london, 1935, pg.55.
21) 'legendary islands of the atlantic: a study in medieval geography', by wm. babcock, american geological society, ny., 1922, pg.75.
22) ibid., pg. 74.
23) 'the golden man: the quest for el dorado', victor van hagen, saxon house/bca, farnsborough, hants, 1974, pg.90.
24) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pg.182.
25) 'secret societies', op. cit., pg.24.
26) 'emotional intelligence', by daniel goleman, bantam, ny., oct.95, pg.40-1.
27) 'seth speaks', 'the eternal validity of the soul', by jane roberts, prentice-hall, 1972, bantam 74 edition, pgs. vii & viii.
28) ibid., pgs.5-7.
29) ibid., pgs.132, 135-7 (on after death).
30) ibid., pgs.423, 432, 443, 475.
31) 'the secret of the enneagrams, mapping the personality', by klausbernd vollman, element, shaftesbury, 1997, pgs.169 & 170.
32) 'allergic to the twentieth century', by peter radetsky, 1997, little, brown & co., rear flap.
33) http://www.taipeitimes.com/news/world/arch...9/08/2003067003

f:

1) 'divine interventions', by dan millman and doug childers, daybreak books, emmaus, pennsylvania, 1999, pgs. 91-6.
2) 'mysteries of the unexplained', reader's digest, op. cit., pgs.126-7.
3) 'the magic of findhorn', 1975, by paul hawken, heading, 'the extraordinary community where man cooperates with plants, where people are transformed, where nothing is impossible and legends are reborn', pgs. 1-2.
4) 'mysteries of the unexplained', op. cit., pgs. 293-295.
5) 'unexplained phenomena', op. cit., pgs. 175-179.
6) www.ncmason.org/book1/anti-m-1.htm., pgs.5-7 of 31, 10/7/00
7) we covered martin short's book earlier from barrett as he questioned short's 'inside the brotherhood'.
8) ibid., pg.10 of 31, and pg.15 of 31.
9) 'les mysteres des cathedrales', by fulcanelli, an albuquerque metaphysical publisher has them for sale the last time i bought one, about seven years ago.
10) 'encyclopedia of divination', op. cit., pg.163. runes & futhark.

g:

1) 'mysteries of the unexplained', op. cit., pg.125.
2) http://www.isleofavalon.co.uk/local/h-pages /pro-freedom/mun~ew_j w.html., 8/11/00. pgs. 1-3.
3) 'the myths of mexico and peru', 1913, by lewis spence, geo.c. harrap, london, 1920 & 1 enoch i, by r.h. charles, 1912, 8:3.
4) i enoch 69:8-9.
5) ibid.,: 12.
6) from 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., 'aii references to 2 enoch from morfill and charles, 'the book of the secrets of enoch', clarendon press,oup/oxford,1896.
7) ez.27:23.
8) ez.27:24.
9) 'the natural genesis', by gerald massey, 2 vols, williams and norgate, london, 1883, pg.231.
10) see, collins, 'from the ashes of angels', pp.161-3, 238-9, for arguments on al judi being the place of descent in the story of noah's ark.
11) see collins, 'from the ashes of angels', pp. 242-5, and collins, 'gods of eden', pp.220-26.
13) num.13:33.
14) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 342-343.
15) ‘genesis of the grail kings’, by sir laurence gardner, 1999, element books, pgs. 198 – 206.
16) ‘ages in chaos’, immanuel velikovsky, sidgwick & jackson, london, 1952, pg. 5.
17) ‘the forgotten monarchy of scotland’. by hrh prince michael stewart of albany, element books, shaftesbury, 1998, pgs. 68 – 9.
18) ‘the history of ireland’, trans. by david comyn and rev. p. s. dineen, 1640; reprinted by irish texts society, london, 1902 – 14, vol, ii, pgs. 20 – 21.
19) ibid, pg. 17.
20) ibid, vol. i, pg. 233.
21) ‘genesis of the grail kings’, op. cit., pgs. 192 – 3.
22) 'the mummies of urumchi', by elizabeth wayland barber, w.w. norton & co., ny, 1999, near pg.65. ,
23) 'encyclopedia of divination', op. cit., pgs.118-119.
24) 'ancient american', vol. 6, issue #38, may 2001, article 'the grand canyon and the great pyramid' by barry mcewen, pgs. 2-4.
25) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., gardner is the source for the information on tuthmosis and his re-organization of ' the mystery schools. his sarkeny rend rosicrucians make a strong claim to trace their lineage back before the 'master mason' moses. personal friends within the 'octopus' who have done history reports as part of their masonic studies say they can track their organizations to 7,000 years ago and suspect (claim) to go all the way back to isis, even if that is before the osianic civilization of the mediterranean.
26) cayce foundation funds helped zahi hawass get his degree at the university of pennsylvania. he is in charge of egyptian antiquities and a primary roadblock to real exposure of the meaning of the pyramid. do they use hegelian tactics to ensure those who get to know anything have gone through the whole dialectic including the opposite of what is real?
27) 'encyclopedia of divination', op. cit., pg. 80.
28) 'nietzsche and postmodernism', op. cit., pgs.37-9.

h:

1) 'healing yourself, understanding how your mind can heal your body!', by sheila pennington, ph. d., mcgraw-hill ryerson ltd., toronto, center for healing arts, inside flap, pg. 179 on meditation.
2) 'treat the cause, naturopathic solutions for common health concerns', by peter papadogianis, m. sc., n.d., prentice-hall, scarborough, 1999, pgs. 122-125.
3) 'the encyclopedia of witches and witchcraft', 2nd edition, by rosemary ellen ginley, checkmark books, 1999, ny., pgs. 153-4.
4) 'the mozart effect, tapping the power of music to heal the body, strengthen the mind, and unlock the creative spirit.', by don campbell, avon books, ny, 1997, pgs. 103-4.
5) 'natural medicine for heart disease', dr. glenn s. rothfeld, suzanne levert, greg rothfield, march, 1996, pg.195.
6) the energy grid, harmonic 695, the pulse of the universe, by bruce l. cathie, adventures unlimited press, kempton, illinois,1990, 1997, pgs. 103-4.
7) http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/index.htm
8) 'the toronto star', front page article, feb.11, 2001, by rick weiss, 'genetic code analysis yields clues to disease'.
9) ibid.
10) ibid.
11) http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/a569522
12) 'trance-formations', 1981, real people press, john grinder and richard bandler, pg.1.

i:

1) 'ancient mysteries', op. cit., pgs. 58-61.
2) 'the elements of the i ching', by stephen karcher, ph.d., element books, shaftesbury, 1995, 1996 edition, pg. 2.
3) ibid., pgs. 145 & 146.
4) 'sea routes to polynesia', by thor heyerdahl, 1968, 1st futura pub., in 1974, pgs. 212 & 213.
5) 'the active side of infinity', by carlos castaneda, 1998, harper collins, ny, rear cover.
6) ibid., pg.60.
7) 'the encyclopedia of witches and witchcraft', op. cit., pgs. 309-310.
8) 'practical intuition', by laura day, introduction by demi moore, villard, ny., 1996, pg. 143.
9) 'native peoples', by r. bruce morrison and c. roderick wilson editors, article by mary a. druke.
10) 'prehistory of north america', by prof. jesse jennings, (the smithsonian considers this "authoritative".) 1968, mcgraw-hill, pgs. 209-213. it leads us to ask where did phoenicians come from and why are berbers so multi-lingual and of different cranial composition.

j:

1) 'the book of 'j", by harold bloom and david rosenberg, grove weidenfeld, ny, 1990, inside flap.
2) ibid., pg. 201-202.
3) from ‘rousseau and revolution', by the durants we have the next few notes: friedlander, ludwig, 'life and manners under the early empire', 11, 78.
4) goethe, oct.27, 1786.
5) vaussard, 84.
6) ibid., 89.
7) bury, j.b., 'history of freedom of thought', 122.
8) mccabe, 'the jesuits', 346.
9) e.g., lanfrey, 'histoire politique des papes', 384; id., 'l'eglise et les philosophes', 305.
10) campbell, 'jesuits', 536, ny, 1921.
11) mccabe, 'jesuits', 346.
12) ranke, 'history of the popes', 11, 449-50.
13) campbell, 538.
14) ibid., 541.
15) mccabe, 355.
16) campbell, 563.
17) 'rousseau and revolution', will and ariel durant, simon & schuster, ny, 1967, pg. 316
18) 'paranormal people', by paul chambers, 1999, blandford, london, pg.155-8.
19) 'the national post', may 26, 2001, book review section, b8.
20) walter birks and r.a. gilbert, 'the treasure of montsegur', thorsons publ., london, 1987, pgs. 38-40; but also see jean-michel angebert's 'the occult and the third reich' for a much more detailed account of otto rahn's activities, pgs. 42-56.
21) "rahn steadfastly insisted that the grail was an 'object', or rather 'the' object called 'solomon's jewel case' which was supposed to have been made of stone, {but could it be the best philosopher's stone?} mentioned in iberian-moorish sources but supposed to have been lost since a.d.711." from hga.
22) jean-michel angebert; 'the occult and the third reich', pg.73.
23) quoted and translated from angebert, but they do not name the poem or the author, page 75. the language is, however, provençal of the 13th century.
24) quoted from rauschning's 'hitler m'a dit' (hitler told me) by angebert, in 'the occult and the third reich', pg.77.
25) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 322-4.
26) 'holy blood, holy grail', baigent, leigh and lincoln, pgs. 214-226.
27) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 338-9.
28) mathieu paoli, 'les dessous d'une ambition politique', nyon (france), 1973.
29) this was first presented by gerard de sede in his 'la race fabuleuse;' paris, 1973.
30) 'holy blood, holy grail', op. cit., pgs.220-221. quoting 'le charivari', no. 18, pg.55.
31) ibid., 'le charivari', pg.53.
32) 'holy blood, holy grail, pg.222.
33) ibid., pg. 204.
34) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 338-344.
35) 'introducing jung', by maggie hyde and michael mcguiness, ed. by richard appignanesi, icon books, u.k., 1999 edition, orig. totem books in 1994 from u.s.a., reprinted many times, pgs. 4 & 5.

k:

1) 'an encyclopedia of claims, frauds, and hoaxes of the occult and supernatural', by james randi, st. martin's griffen, ny., 1995. pgs. 134-5.
2) ibid., pg.108.
3) ibid., pg.135.
4) ibid., pg.195.
5) 'ancient mysteries', op. cit., pgs. 214-216.
6) ibid., pgs. 216-219.
7) ibid., pgs. 219-221.
8) 'an encyclopedia of claims, etc.', op. cit., pgs.108-9.
9) ‘ancient mysteries’, op. cit., pgs. 201-207.
10) ‘the stargate conspiracy’, by lynn picknett and clive prince, 1999, little brown & co., london. pgs. 62-63. brings us these authorities on references. "lehner, 'the egyptian heritage', pg.86
11) bauvall and hancock, 'keeper of genesis', pg.89. william heinemann, london, 1996.
12) ibid., pg.295.
13) milson, pg.4. 'age of the sphinx’ a transcript of the programme transmitted 27, nov., 1994.
14) sources at are's virginia beach hq.
15) 'the stargate conspiracy', op. cit., pgs. 62-63.
16) lehner, 'the complete pyramids', pg.84. thames & hudson, london, 1997.
17) rundle clark, pg.35. 'myth and symbol in ancient egypt', thames & hudson, london, 1959.
18) 'european probe finds water at titan and orion', associated press, report 8 april, 1998
19) rice, 'egypt's making', pg.38, routledge, london, 1997.
20) see coppens, 'life exists since the big bang', schueller, 'stuff of life'! 'legendary times', mar/99.
21) 'stargate conspiracy', op. cit., pgs. 8-11.
22) 'an encyclopedia of claims, etc.,', op. cit., pg.136.
23) 'the secret history of ancient egypt', electricity, sonics and the disappearance of an advanced civilization,' by herbie brennan, 2000, judy piatkus publishers, london, pgs. 109-111, brings us 'musical resonance in the great pyramid and the master frequency' by rocky mccollum and bill cox, life understanding foundation, santa barbara, 1979.
24) ibid., herbie brennan
25) 'the encyclopedia of claims, etc.', op. cit., pg. 137.
26) 'why people believe weird things', by michael shermer, 1997, w.h. freeman and co., ny., pgs. 138-40.
27) 'the encyclopedia of claims, etc.,', op. cit., pg.140.
28) ibid., pg.141.

l:

1) 'why people believe weird things', op. cit., pgs.28-32.
2) 'national post', sat. may 26, 2001, book reviews, b9, review by adam kirsch on 'kant: a biography' from cambridge university press written by manfred kuehn.
3) 'peru before the incas', by edward lanning, 1967, prentice-hall, n.j., pgs.90-95.
4) plato, 'critias', 114b.
5) pliny, 'natural history', iv, xxii, 120.
6) odelain and séguineau, 'dictionary of proper names and places in the bible', s. v. 'geder', p.134, cf.-jos.12:13.
7) ibid, s. v., 'gedor', cf. hb.i-2.
8) bérard, 'l'atlantide de platon', 'annales de geographie', vol.38, no. 213, 15 may, 1929, pp.193-205. see also forsyth, 'atlantis: the making of a myth', pg.l00.
9) pseudo-scylax, 112, english translation from nordenskjöld - 'periplus: an essay on the early history of charts and sailing-directions', pg.8.
10) diordorus siculus, 'library', iii, 54.
11) bramwell, 'lost atlantis', pg.l10, after the work of felix berlioux.
12) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., brought us the previous 8 references and this masterful piece of research from pages 162-165. it is important to note that fell covers a new england stone with a 30,000 man invasion force of america around 400 bc. that could have been another hanno as well in the centuries that followed. donnelly and macdari as well as other linguists have suggested the atlantean language was phoenician at its root.
13) "peter tompkins, 'the magic of obelisks', harper & row, ny., 1981, pgs. 309-339 for these facts about masonic influence in the birth of the american republic. tompkins, using the recovery of egyptian obelisks as a foil, {perhaps to allow a publisher to avoid censure or black-balling boycotts.} reconstructs the connection between the medieval templars and later esoteric orders like the masons and the rose-cross. in this extremely detailed work, tompkins anticipated the same arguments of a templar-masonic connection as are offered in 'holy blood, holy grail'," from holy grail across the atlantic, the work of marrs, short, michael howard, icke and many others have use in getting to know what is really going on with the hierarchy of power.
14) john g. bennett, 'gurdjieff; the making of a new world', turnstone books, london, 1973, pgs. 68-69,' from bradley in hga.
15) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 310-317.

m:

1) 'paranormal people', op. cit., pgs.127-131.
2) 'reader's digest. mysteries of the unexplained', op. cit., pgs.127-131.
3) 'people of the serpent: life and adventure among the mayan', by edw. h. thompson, g.p. putnams sons, london, 1932, pg. 21.77 from 'gateway to atlantis' op. cit.
4) ibid., pg.77.
5) ibid.
6) ibid., pg.78.
7) ibid., pg. 78-9.
8) ibid.
9) brasseur de bourbourg, vol .i, pg .l08, cf. salagūn, 'hist. de la cosas de n. espana, intro.
10) ibid.
11) lewis spence, 'the myths of mexico and peru', 1913, geo. c. harrap, london, 1920, pg.23.
12) miller and taube,' the gods and symbols of ancient mexico and the maya', 1993, thames & hudson, london, 1997, pg. 42.
13) 'the myths of mexico and peru', op. cit., pg. 11.
14) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 218-220.
15) 'forbidden archaeology: evidence for extreme human antiquity and the extraterrestrial hypothesis', by michael a. cremo, from 'ufo magazine, june-july 2001, pgs. 48-53.
16)'f-61 black widow units of ww2', by warren thompson, 1998, osprey publ. ltd. 2000, edition, oxford, pgs.30-31.
17) 'rule by secrecy', by jim marrs, 2001 perennial books edition, harper collins, ny, pgs. 367-370.
18) 'national post', sat. june 16,2001; response from elaine dewar to 'job' of canadian museum of civilization reviewer, on her kennewick and early american origins book.
19) http://www.athenapub.com/10pfurad.htm


n:

1) 'sourcebook of the world's religions', edited by joel beversluis, new world library, novato, cal., 3rd edition, 2000, orig.1993, pgs.116-7.
2) 'perfect health, the complete mind body guide', by deepak chopra, 1991, 2000, three rivers press, ny, revised edition, pg.306.
3) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs. 140-153.
4) from 'necessary illusions', by noam chomsky, 1989, 2nd printing, 1993, the house of anansi press, concord, ontario, pgs. 99-103,-cited by michael conroy, in thomas walker, ed., 'nicaragua: the first years', (praeger, 1985, 232 f).
5) julia preston; wp weekly. {washington post} jan.2-8, 1989; the latter comment referring to jalapa in the far north, on the curious amalgam of maoism and right-wing jingoism that was concocted in the early 1980s when authentic latin america specialists refused to perform the services expected of them by government and media, see 'culture of terrorism', 205f. on kirkpatrick's psychiatric insights into sandanista paranoia as she spun a web of lies about u.s. policies, see holly sklar, 'washington's war on nicaragua' (south end, 1988, 114f.).
6) boston globe, dec. 25, 1988
7) see chapter 3, note 47, from chomsky's 'necessary illusions'.
8) boston globe, oct.30, 31, nov. l, 1988. the series also contains many distortions and outright lies, for example, the claim that in december 1987 defense minister ortega "announced his objective of military forces of 600,000 men by 1995," which will add to those "legions of troops (that) produce nothing." as sheehan and the editors know full well, ortega announced a planned 'reduction' of the military forces with light arms to be distributed to the general working population. useful propaganda fabrications are not readily abandoned. {ortega is a very interesting study. the new york times correspondents were paid cia operatives and people thought they were impartial reporters of fact. the truth is that all who are trained or hired to think a certain way seldom change their opinions and support the literary theory or knowledge filter that maintains if not increases control.}
9) from 'necessary illusions' see appendix v, section 3, for ref. and bkgd.
10) preston, 'wp weekly', jan.2-8, 1989, on u.s. dominance of the information system in large areas of nicaragua, see howard frederick, "electronic penetration", in walker, "reagan vs. the sandanistas".
11) thomas walker, in coleman and herring, 'the central american crisis', carlin, 'independent' (london), feb. l, 1988.
12) 'necessary illusions', op. cit., pgs. 99-103.
13) 'archaeology magazine', jan/feb. 2001, article by prof. wiseman - 'camelot in kentucky', pgs. 12-13.
14) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs.184-187.
15) ibid., pg.194-5.
16) 'sourcebook of the world's religions', op. cit., pgs. 320-322.
17) 'critique of dialectical reason', by jean-paul sartré, trans. by alan sheridan-smith, edited by jonathan rée, first publ. 1960, 1976 nlb 1st ed., london, pgs. 735-736.
18) ibid., pgs.736-737.
19) ibid., pgs.26-27.
20) ibid., pg.409-410.
21) 'harvard business review', march 2001, article 'the nut island effect', by paul levy, pg.52.
22) 'critique of dialectical reason', op. cit., pgs. 340-348.
23) 'technics and civilization', by lewis mumford, 1934, pg.162. the italics are sartre's (ed.)
24) 'critique of dialectical reason', op. cit., pgs. 159-160.
25) 'perfect health', op. cit., pgs.257-259.
26) 'a concise encyclopedia of hinduism' by klaus k. klostermaier, oneworld publications, oxford, 1998, pg. 129.
27) ibid., pg.216.
28) shultz, 'moral principles and strategic interests', u.s. dept. of state, current policy no. 820, speech of april 4,1986.
29) 'pirates and emperors', 136, cockburn, 'out of control', 26.
30) woodward, 'veil' (simon & schuster, 1987, 396f.)
31) 'necessary illusions', op. cit., pg. 271.

o:

1) 'the globe and mail', june 29, 2001, 'alberta drawings support ancient myth', by dawn walton, front page.
2) 'times atlas of archaeology', (past worlds), pgs. 51-63, london, 1988.
3) 'the 12th planet', by zechariah sitchen, pgs. 5-6, avon, 1978, ny.
4) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., pgs.54-59.
5) 'the secret life of nature', by peter tompkins, harper/san francisco, 1997, pg.l04.
6) 'the animal world of the pharaohs', by patrick f. houlihan, thames & hudson, london, 1996, pg.199.
7) 'elephants and ethnologists', by g. eliot smith, kegan paul, trench, trubner, london, e.p. hutton, ny, 1924. pgs. 22-3, pl.2, opp, pg. 20; pl.4, opp. pg. 23.
8) 'the olmecs: the oldest civilization in mexico', by soustelle, jacques, 1979, univ.of okla. press, norman, okla., 1985, pg.44.
9) ibid., pg.21.
10) ibid., pgs. 9-10, 15.
11) 'discovering the new world's oldest dated work of man', by matthew w. stirling, national geographic, vol.76, august 1939, pgs. 183-218.
12) 'fair gods and stone faces: ancient seafarers and the new world's most intriguing riddle', 1963, w.h. allen, london, 1964, pgs.141, 157.
13) ibid.
14) 'the olmecs: the oldest civilization in mexico', op. cit., pg.44.
15) 'across before columbus?' by donald y. gilmore and linda s. mcelroy, neara publications, edgecomb, maine, 1998. pg. 299.
16) ibid., pg. 300.
17) ibid.
18) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs.130-134.
19) 'the death of a president', by william manchester, harper & row, 1967, pgs. 471-2.
20) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs.334-337.
21) 'necessary illusions', op. cit., pgs. 68-70, brings us these references, "bernard biederich, 'somoza', (e.p. dutton, 1981, 74). 'memorandum from secretary of defense robert mcnamara to mcgeorge bundy, june 11, 1965; for further details, see 'on power and ideology', 22f. and bibliography."
22) schoultz, 'human rights and united states policy toward latin america', (princeton, 1981, 7)
23) cited by f. parkinson, 'latin america, the cold war, and the world powers', (london, 1974), 40.
24) see my article (noam chomsky), 'democracy in the industrial societies' in 'z magazine', jan.1989, for discussion and references.
25) 'torture in latin america', ladoc (latin american documentation), lima, 1987.
26) 'necessary illusions', op. cit., pgs.68-70.
27) 'illuminata, thoughts, prayers, rites of passage', by marianne williamson, random house, ny, 1994, pgs.220, 222, 223, 216 & 217.
28) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs.235-240.
29) ibid., pg. 409.
30) 'critias', plato, 114d-114c.
31) ibid., 114c.
32) ibid., 116c.
33) ibid., 114c.
34) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pg.57.
35) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs. 205-212.
36) 'critique of dialectical reason', op. cit., pgs. 205-6.
37) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs. 212-217.
38) 'don't know much about the civil war', by kenneth c. davis, 1996, wm. morrow & co., pg.275.
39) ibid., pgs. 437, 446, 448-450.
40) ibid., pg. 453.
41) 'the gaia atlas of first peoples', by julian burger, 1990, doubleday, ny, pg.22.
42) 'ancient american', vol.6, issue #38, article by r. hamilton on pgs. 19 & 20.
43) 'questioning krishnamurti', 'dialogue with leading 20th century thinkers,' thorsons, san francisco, 1996, pgs. 216-218.

p:

1) sacred congregation for the sacraments and divine worship, 'instruction concerning worship of the eucharist mystery (inestimable donum),' confirmed by his holiness pope john paul ii, vatican translation, paragraph 18, (pauline press, 1994), pg.8.
2) raymond e. brown, s.s., 'biblical reflections on crisis facing the church (paulist press, 1975), pgs. 53-54.
3) gal 3:26-28. scholars isolate this as a hymn on the basis of its verse form and parallels in other parts of the new testament, j. louis martyn, 'galatians' (ab,1977), pgs. 374-83.
4) ben witherington iii, 'women in the ministry of jesus' (cambridge university press, 1984), pg.117.
5) 'papal sin', by garry wills; doubleday, 2000, pgs.112-113.
6) 'the social world of the apostle paul', (yale university press, 1983), pgs. 131-136, by wayne meek.
7) for instance at ii cor.6:5; ph 2:16. elizabeth a. castelli, 'paul on women and gender,' in ross shepard kramer and mary rose d'angelo (editors), 'women and christian origins', (oxford university press, 1999), pg. 225.
8) 'papal sin', op. cit., pg.115.
9) jaroslav pelikan, 'reformation of church and dogma' (1300-1700) (university of chicago press, 1984), pg. 46.
10) 'papal sin', op. cit., pg. 210.
11) ibid, inside flap.
12) 'mysteries of the unexplained', op. cit., pg. 207.
13) ibid.
14) ibid., pg. 219.
15) 'holistic parenting', by lynn wiese sneyd, keats publishing, l.a., 2000. pgs. 75-76. 16) ibid., pg. 217.
17) ibid., pg.181, brings us 'mark a. breiner, d.d.s., 'whole-body dentistry: discover the missing piece to better health' (fairfield, ct: quantum health press, 1999).
18) 'holistic parenting', op. cit., pg.181.
19) ibid., pgs. 45-6, brings us "nicholas culpeper. 'the english physician; and complete herbal: a basic of natural remedies for ancient ills' (london: champante and whitrow, 1789).
20) 'holistic parenting', op. cit., pgs. 45-6.
21) 'personality types: using the enneagrams for self-discovery', by don richard riso with russ hudson, revised edition, 1996, houghton mifflin, boston, pgs. 22, 26.
22) ibid., pg. 29, 30, 34, 218.
23) 'questioning krishnamurti', op. cit., pgs. 2l2-4.
24) 'peru before the incas', op. cit., pgs. 84-85.
25) 'holistic parenting', op. cit., pgs.195-196.
26) 'maps of the ancient sea kings', by charles hapgood, chilton book co., radnor, 1968, pg.41.
27) 'admiral of the ocean seas: the life of christopher columbus', by adm. (usn ret.) samuel eliot morison, little, brown, ny., 1942, pg.186.
28) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs.96-101.

q:

1) from 'a fire in the mind', op. cit., "joseph campbell said this about steinbeck in a letter to angela gregory. 'i remember that he either said that to me, or he wrote it to me.' she said in an interview with the authors in august 1989." pgs. 166-167.
2) ibid., 'campbell interview, there is another version in campbell's journal of the time that is similar, but less clearly told, than this version."
3) ibid., pgs. 166-7.

r:

1) 'the shadow of atlantis', by col. a. bragline, 1940, adventures unlimited press, kempton, ill., 1997, pg.253.
2) 'cuba and puerto rico with the other islands of the west indies', by robert t. hill, t. fisher unwin, london, 1898, pg.77.
3) ibid.
4) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 236-7.
5) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs.315-325.
6) 'holy grail across the atlantic', op. cit., pgs. 314-115.
7) 'ancient american', issue #36, article 'roman relics found in arizona', by earl koenig, pgs.24-25.
8) ibid., pg.25.
9) ibid., pgs.25-27.
10) andrews, christopher, 'for the president's eyes only', ny, 1995.
11) operation majestic 12: briefing for president elect dwight d. eisenhower 18 november 1952.
12) kolsky, frank: 'harry s. truman and the war scare of 1948', ny, 1995.
13) 'new york times', 7 april 1948.
14) 'beyond roswell', by michael hesemann & philip mantle, marlow & co., ny, foreword by jesse marcel, m.d., pgs.124-128.
15) 'physical review a', vol.39, no. 5, 1 march 1989.
16) 'nexus', november 1996, pg.38.
17) the great pyramid has been reliably estimated to consist of some 2.3 million blocks. 'see also', hancock, g., 'fingerprints of the gods', pg.284.
18) hodges, peter, 'how the pyramids were built', (ed. julian keable), element books, shaftesbury, 1989, pg.123.
19) edwards, i.e.s., 'the pyramids of egypt', viking, ny, 1986, pg.115.
20) g. hancock, 'fingerprints of the gods', pg. 330.
21) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., pgs. 205-207.
22) 'hyperspace', by michio kaku, 1993, anchor doubleday, pg.151.
23) 'the house of the messiah', a. osman, harper/collins, london, 1992 pg.159.
24) 'national geographic', april 2001, article by rick gore, 'pharaohs of the sun', pg.55 in a chart of the 'royal line' from amenhotep iii to horemheb.
25) 'the amarna age', by j. balkie, a & c black, london, 1926, pg. 241
26) 'national geographic', by gore, op. cit., pg.159.
27) 'the house of the messiah', op. cit., pg.159.
28) 'akhenaten-king of egypt', by c. aldred, thames & hudson, london, 1988, pgs. 203-204.
29) ibid., pg .286.
30) 'the amarna age', op. cit., pg.95.
31) 'akhenaten-king of egypt', op .cit., pg.234, confirmed by national geographic above citation.
32) 'national geographic', by gore, op. cit., pgs.47 & 53.
33) 'ages in chaos', by immanuel velikovsky, sedgwick & jackson,1952, london, pg.5, others have it being cush and not necessarily in ethiopia.
34) alcuin, flaccus albinus, abbot of canterbury (trans.),'the book of jasher’, longman, london, 1929, section 'testimonies and notes'.
35) jasher 6:10.
36) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., pgs. 205-211.
37) 'national geographic', by gore, op. cit., pgs. 38 & 39.
38) ibid., pgs.38-55.
39) 'hyperspace', op. cit., pg.320.

s:

1) 'grail knights of north america', op. cit., pg. 403 from notes.
2) ibid., pg.334.
3) 'the undiscovered self', by c.g. jung, atlantic monthly press, little, brown and co., boston, trans. by r.f.c. hull, inside flap.
4) ibid., pgs. 85 & 86.
5) ibid., pgs.87-90, 95-97, 101, 103, 104.
6) grant k., 'the magical revival', pg.120, skoob books, london, 1991. 7) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., pg.129.
8) 'super people', by jeanne bendick, mcgraw-hill, 1980, pgs.68-69.

t:

1) 'the secret language of stone', op. cit., pgs. 27-30.
2) from 'fire in the mind', rickett's essay 'non-teleological thinking', in hedgpeth, the outer shores, pg.162.
3) hedgpeth, part 2, pgs.22-24.
4) 'the log from the sea of cortez', p.1xvi.
5) 'a fire in the mind', the life of joseph campbell, by stephen and robin larsen, anchor-doubleday, ny, 1991, pgs.203-4, some of the work of john steinbeck
6) 'ancient inventions', by peter james and nick thorpe, ballantine, ny, 1994, pgs. 258-261.
7) 'wisdom of the ages', by wayne dyer, harper collins, 1998, pg.239.
8) 'the law is for all', aleister crowley, edited by louis wilkinson and hymenaeus beta, pg.284, 1996.
9) ibid., back flap.
10) ibid., pgs. 176-177.
11) from 'a fire in the mind', "the term 'logos' was used by the ecumenical theosophists, and krishnamurti as well, to refer to the spiritual, creating and ordering principle of the universe. the greek word is used in the synoptic gospel of john, as 'in the beginning was the word (logos)."
12) "an alternative quote of what krishnamurti said is "do not be troubled by what you read in the newspapers." a more colloquial rendering of the story, for which we have not located the source, is that joseph said to krishnamurti, in a distressed and perhaps accusatory tone, "what is all this about?", and krishna replied. 'give us a break!'
13) 'a fire in the mind', op. cit., pgs. 63-4.
14) 'martin heidegger, basic writings', edited by david farrell krell, harper & row, ny, 1977, pgs. 38-9.
15) ibid., pg. 303. .
16) ibid., pg. 376.
17) 'magic and mystery in tibet', by alexandra david-neel, a student of the sorbonne professor foucault, thorsons edition, 4th publisher, 1997, first published in 1967, pgs. 148-160.
18) http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2003/03-109.html
19) 'ancient inventions', op. cit., pg. 451-2.
20) http://www.touregypt.net/edwinsmithsurgical.htm#case%20one:
21) 'magic and mystery in tibet', op. cit., pgs.174-176.
22) 'magic and mystery in tibet', op. cit., pgs. 92-94.
23) 'ancient american', issue #39, article 'who were the caucasian 'mummy people' of alaska?' by f.s. pettyjohn, pg.26.
24) ibid.
25) 'the hunting peoples', by carleton s. coons, little, brown, 1971, pgs. xviii & xix.
26) 'ancient american', 'mummies', op. cit., pgs.26-27.
27) ibid., article by frank joseph, 'stone age malta, colombian contacts', pg.12.
28) ibid.
29) ibid., pg.20.
30) ibid., book review by prof. cyclone covey of ‘ancient sauk, ojibwa and winnebago cosmology', pg.36, the book is by joan price, ph. d.
31) 'mummies, myth and magic', thames & hudson, 1989, by christine el mahdy, pg.36.
32) 'ancient american', issue 1139, article by jason o'donoghue, 'an ancient egyptian temple in canada?', pgs.14-15.
33) 'the mystical life of jesus', ancient and mystical order rosae crucis, by lewis h. spence, san jose, cal.,1982, pgs.191-192. (this group was crowleyan or thelemic at first.)
34) 'bloodline of the holy grail', by laurence gardner, pg.310.
35) 'mystical life of jesus', op. cit., pg.194.
36) ibid., pgs.196-202.
37) ibid., pgs. 25-26.
38) 'genesis of the grail kings', op. cit., pgs.126-127.
39) ibid.
40) 'mummies, myth and magic', op. cit., pg.7.
41) 'the private lives of the pharaohs', by joyce tyldesley, tv books, ny, 2000, pgs. 102-4.
42) 'encyclopaedia britannica, 15th ed., 1995, pgs.747-748.
43) 'peoples of the sea', by immanuel velikovsky, doubleday, garden city, 1977, pgs. 105-110.
44) 'encyclopaedia britannica', op. cit., pg. 748.

u:

1) 'ancient inventions', op. cit., pgs. 296-7.
2) 'the mummies of urumchi', op. cit., pgs.115-116.
3) ibid., pg. 68.
4) ibid., pgs.170-171. -.
5) ibid., pg.19.
6) ibid.
7) ibid., pgs.65 & 66.
8) ibid., pgs 173-174.

v:

1) 'ancient american', issue #39, entry from houston museum of natural science re: norse in america expo., pg.38.
2) 'the secret language of stone', op. cit., pgs. 97-98.
3) ibid., pgs.98-100.
4) 'the toronto star', friday july, 20, 2001, pg.d-6, article by clive thompson, 'virtual therapy, real results'
5) 'histoire des nations civilisees du mexique et de l'amerique-centrale, etc by brasseur de bourbourg, vol. i, pg.42, cf. nunez de la vega, 'constitucioñes dioices', etc.
6) ibid., vol. i, pg. 71, cf. ordoñez, 'hist. del cielo y de la terra, etc.', all references carried from ordoñez are from this work unless otherwise stated.
7) ibid., vol. i, pg. 71 n.2.
8) hastings, 'encyclopaedia of religion and ethics', vol. ii, pg.402. see also miller, 'geschichte der amerikanischen urreligionen', pgs. 486-491.
9) brasseur de bourbourg, vol. i, pgs.71-2, cf. nunez de la vega and ordoñez.
10) ibid., vol. i, pg.71, cf. ordoñez.
11) ibid.
12) ibid., vol. i, pg.73, cf. ordoñez, ms fragments.
13) ibid., vol. i, pg. 68, cf. ordoñez.
14) ibid.
15) ibid., vol. i, pg.69, cf. ordoñez.
16) ibid., vol. i, pg. 69. n.4.
17) ibid., vol. i, pg. 70. cf. ordoñez.
18) ibid. + pg. 78.
19) ibid. + 71.
20) ibid.
21) ibid., pg.71.
22) ibid.
23) ibid., pgs. 71-72.
24) ibid., pg. 72, nunez de la vega, too.
25) ibid., no nunez. –
26) ibid.
27) ibid., pg. 73.
28) ibid., ms fragments.
29) ibid, cf. nunez de la vega.
30) ibid., pgs. 73-5.
31) ibid.
32) ibid.
33) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 334-337.

w:

1) 'peru before the incas', op. cit., pgs. 120-125.
2) 'celtic mysteries', op. cit., pg.82.
3) ibid., pgs. 82-86.
4) 'rule by secrecy', op. cit., pgs. 90-96.

x:

1) see, for example, miller and taube. 'the gods and symbols of ancient mexico and the maya', s. v. 'quetzalcoatl', pp.141; mackenzie, 'myths of pre-colombian america', pg. 260.
2) brasseur de bourbourg, op. cit. on central america, pg.151.
3) prescott, i, pg.52. 'history of the conquest of mexico'.
4) davies, 'the aztecs', pg.258.
5) see, for example, quetzalcoatl atop a pyramid in the codex telleriamo-remensis, sixteenth century, aztec in miller and taube, s.v., 'quetzalcoatl pp.141-2; "spence, 'the myths of mexico and peru', pg.8l;carrasco, 'quetzalcoatl and the irony of empire myths and prophecies in the aztec tradition', pgs. 56-58.
7) see, for example 'pohl, 'prince henry sinclair: his expedition to the new world in 1398.
8) sinclair, 'the sword and the grail', pg.134.
9) see for example, ibid pg. 134.
10) http://www.boston.com/business/technology/...power_computing
11) 'gateway to atlantis', op. cit., pgs. 208-210.
12) ibid, page 210.

y:

1) 'peoples of the sea', op. cit., pgs.61-68.
2) 'the yeast connection', by william g. crook, m.d., 1983, 1985 edition, professional books, pgs. 11-13.
3) ibid., pg.253.
4) 'ancient american', issue #39, by dr. masaaki kimura, 'sunken citadel off yonaguni: has lemuria been found?', pgs. 2-4, aug. 2001.

z:

1) 'the five houses of zen', by thomas cleary, shambhala, boston, 1997, pg.95.
2) 'tesla/the modern sorcerer', by daniel blair stewart, frog ltd., berkeley, pgs. 336-338.
Dan
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 30, 09:57 PM)
One is in this very thread - fool.

where?

and it's nice to see that you are willing to offer sources, but it would be nicer if you could link them with your claims as you make the claims. What would be really really nice is if you could organize a website that clearly identifies all of your claims individually and supplies with each claim all sources relevant to those claims. Just throwing a jazillion random sources for god-knows-what doesn't do much for me
Robert the Bruce
Dear Dan

I tell you what - you can organize a website or you can go to World-Mysteries.com where a real physicist and astronomer has done so who features me - heck why would I want to provide all the stuff in my books for free? Get real. If you give it away people will not value it.
Dan
I didn't realize you were doing this for mone