“I can’t say why, but I felt certain he was looking or smelling for me; and also I felt certain that I did not want him to discover me. I’ve never seen or felt anything like it in the Shire before.”
Full Version: Delphi Oracle
I think the following passage of one book I slowly start to wonder at is very apt to place here:
“I can’t say why, but I felt certain he was looking or smelling for me; and also I felt certain that I did not want him to discover me. I’ve never seen or felt anything like it in the Shire before.”
“I can’t say why, but I felt certain he was looking or smelling for me; and also I felt certain that I did not want him to discover me. I’ve never seen or felt anything like it in the Shire before.”
Auuuuuuuuu. Peeeeeeeeeople. Where aaaaare youuuuuuuu.
Nobody wants to hunt the Snark?
Then, silence. Some fancied they heard in the air
A weary and wandering sigh
Then sounded like "-jum!" but the others declare
It was only a breeze that went by.
They hunted till darkness came on, but they found
Not a button, or feather, or mark,
By which they could tell that they stood on the ground
Where the Baker had met with the Snark.
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away- -
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
THE END
I wonder even kids from NSA do not want to Hunt the Snark?
Hope they understand there are great differences between the Brotherhood of the Snark and that other imaginary Brotherhood. The commonality only is in the word Brotherhood.
Nobody wants to hunt the Snark?
Then, silence. Some fancied they heard in the air
A weary and wandering sigh
Then sounded like "-jum!" but the others declare
It was only a breeze that went by.
They hunted till darkness came on, but they found
Not a button, or feather, or mark,
By which they could tell that they stood on the ground
Where the Baker had met with the Snark.
In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away- -
For the Snark *was* a Boojum, you see.
THE END
I wonder even kids from NSA do not want to Hunt the Snark?
Hope they understand there are great differences between the Brotherhood of the Snark and that other imaginary Brotherhood. The commonality only is in the word Brotherhood.
When one gate closes the other opens, old proverb says. But the problem is that the other gate opens in too distant "place", so for many people the gates remain closed, that is pity. So to avoid that inconvenience in human life I suppose that the best variant is to open all the gates.
Here is the true Freedom of Choice. Man just should decide which gate to choose.
In this case the Oracle does not need to mention all the Alternatives, as they will be evident for men [because sometimes the Oracle may choose not to mention some alternatives, thus having ability to manipulate and not to help]. The Oracle just will help to make right choice. I think it is much more just.
Here is the true Freedom of Choice. Man just should decide which gate to choose.
In this case the Oracle does not need to mention all the Alternatives, as they will be evident for men [because sometimes the Oracle may choose not to mention some alternatives, thus having ability to manipulate and not to help]. The Oracle just will help to make right choice. I think it is much more just.
| QUOTE (Enki @ Oct 05, 12:20 AM) |
| 1). Does Something Performing Functions of the Delphi Oracle (SPFDO) an imperative element of progress of any civilization? |
It seems to me to be a useful notion to imagine that mind evolves in 'leaps', as if making sudden transitions from one stable state to another stable state. An SPFDO would be an 'idea' that triggers such a transition of individual/social human cognition to a distinctly new stable state. Other such triggers may be environmental, appearing randomly and unintentionally to trigger the transition. An example would be drastic climactic shifts that force a population into a new state of behavior that favors a different state of cognition and associated optimal phenotype.
| QUOTE |
| 2). Does our brain always need to get ‘words’ of that SPFDO [some kind of Neuro Push (perturbation)] to progress in its development and pass to new level of reality perception? |
To imagine that evolution of individual/group cognition makes a continuous smooth transition from 'lower' to 'higher' seems to contradict observed patterns of evolution where such transitions occur in leaps. If we want such a transition of cognition to occur, there is likely a quantifiable element of information that must eventually be introduced into the system in order to catalyze the transition. Whether or not this is a 'word' or is simply an environmental stimulus is unimportant, what is important is that it has informational value that is necessary for the cognitive transition.
| QUOTE |
| 3). What can be considered as the contemporary SPFDO? |
An SPFDO is any informing stimulus that may trigger a transition to a 'higher' cognitive state. In the recent modern era, such ideas as evolution and quantum physics appear to qualify as SPFDOs. Future SPFDO might be the idea of a human's own consciousness as non-local properties of the universe rather than as localized 'emergent' effects. In such a case, an added SPFDO necessary for completion might be an explanation of how a multiplicity of disjoint consciousnesses is consistent with non-localization of consciousness.
| QUOTE |
4). Can the SPFDO to be considered as Source of Correlation (SC)? |
I would say that the SPFDO is an 'idea' (information) while the SC is the platform that manifests the information into sensible data.
| QUOTE |
| 5). Can we say that the society always needs a Source of Correlation [e.g. as the most simple example of SC we can consider Magnificent Gothic temple at the middle of the city which curves does shape mentality of the people of a city. “ ‘First we construct buildings then buildings construct us.” Sir Winston Churchill”]? |
the SPFDO must be 'manifested' and then effectively dispersed to the individuals constituting the society in order for the associated transition to take place. The SC is the nexus of manifestation of the SPFDO and is completely necessary. If there is no SC, then the SPFDO cannot manifest.
Dear Dan
Do you think the Delphi Oracles were responsible for a quantum leap?
Yes, social engineering and a focus on some thought or stable system has cultural impacts as Mumford showed they helped achieve - though the Athenean School and sages where more effective in that regard. But in reality the Intellectual and spiritual systems such as Michael Grant notes were the major influence through the millennium before Christ are (like the oracles) part of a more ancient tradition - so no leap occurred other than the Hellenizing plagiarization that is reflected in our propagandized history.
A more relevant exploration would be the formation that occurred in this period - of all religions now with us. Fukayama calls them 'absolute relgions' and C. S. Lewis or Merton calls them 'higher religions'. The era of the 6th Century BCE and Confucius, Buddha and Zoroaster are all derived from the same people or schools of thought. These schools of thought had been reorganized by Tuthmosis in the millenium before that according to many. This is around the time of Moses/Akhenaten. But long before that these schools helped more people find their true role in soul and with the 'collective'.
Plato observed that the advent of a writing alphabet greatly diminished the disciplined pursuit of knowledge or wisdom. Once people could simply refer to books they did not interiorize this knowledge. That occurred around the same time that Tuthmosis reorganized the Mystery Schools and was part of a Phoenician (Hyksos) plan for society as I see it.
The crux of the Kabbalist or Rabbinical 'twisting' of Qabala has much to do with this in our laws, structures of society and in the ethereal world around us.
Do you think the Delphi Oracles were responsible for a quantum leap?
Yes, social engineering and a focus on some thought or stable system has cultural impacts as Mumford showed they helped achieve - though the Athenean School and sages where more effective in that regard. But in reality the Intellectual and spiritual systems such as Michael Grant notes were the major influence through the millennium before Christ are (like the oracles) part of a more ancient tradition - so no leap occurred other than the Hellenizing plagiarization that is reflected in our propagandized history.
A more relevant exploration would be the formation that occurred in this period - of all religions now with us. Fukayama calls them 'absolute relgions' and C. S. Lewis or Merton calls them 'higher religions'. The era of the 6th Century BCE and Confucius, Buddha and Zoroaster are all derived from the same people or schools of thought. These schools of thought had been reorganized by Tuthmosis in the millenium before that according to many. This is around the time of Moses/Akhenaten. But long before that these schools helped more people find their true role in soul and with the 'collective'.
Plato observed that the advent of a writing alphabet greatly diminished the disciplined pursuit of knowledge or wisdom. Once people could simply refer to books they did not interiorize this knowledge. That occurred around the same time that Tuthmosis reorganized the Mystery Schools and was part of a Phoenician (Hyksos) plan for society as I see it.
The crux of the Kabbalist or Rabbinical 'twisting' of Qabala has much to do with this in our laws, structures of society and in the ethereal world around us.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Oct 05, 06:03 AM) |
| Do you think the Delphi Oracles were responsible for a quantum leap? |
I don't claim to believe in magic or any other such 'hidden variable'. I don't need to think of the 'Delphi oracle' as having secret hidden powers as it is possible to propose a theory homomorphic with Enki's theory that yields the same observables and does not require hidden variables. What I do believe is that cognitive evolution likely occurs in discrete transitions (Kuhn's 'paradigm' shift) that can be triggered by an idea or some other kind of apparently insignificant influence on the system. I am not claiming that some particular transition has occured as a response to some particular input, other then my mention of the likely recent effect of the ideas of evolution and quantum physics on human cognition and social structure.
the rest of what you say sounds like an interesting hypothesis
Dear Dan
The whole concept of magik and what people have thought might be behind it or G-d (Which has often been the same thing) is in fact reality = science. Nothing about the Oracles is first concept - they were taught by the various (Diverse Druids) including Abaris the Druid of the Kapnobatai of Thrace. So many science historians like Kuhn have noted how paradigms shift - and it is a matter of social engineering more than it is a matter of facts as he notes. Have you read Steve Fuller's critique of Kuhn?
Needless to say there is nothing Enki has said which is unique (even if one distillls the fact that he only vaguely understands the language or the symbols behind the language or what is called archetypes by Jung). Gematria is a science or art of its own and the most erudite people in the field are my fellow researchers who see the Set or codes of the Matrix. Have you run into the work of The Fetch? He is now working to make his writing more like my own work that he once called histrionics.
The Francis Bacon types (Rosicrucians or Masons) have used these arts to influence mankind in clear ways that work. Of course, they would like to call it magik or say they are Divinely Inspired in some cases - churchians and rabbis. The Fetch is onto the Noahdist or Jehovian mind phuck in a big way.
The whole concept of magik and what people have thought might be behind it or G-d (Which has often been the same thing) is in fact reality = science. Nothing about the Oracles is first concept - they were taught by the various (Diverse Druids) including Abaris the Druid of the Kapnobatai of Thrace. So many science historians like Kuhn have noted how paradigms shift - and it is a matter of social engineering more than it is a matter of facts as he notes. Have you read Steve Fuller's critique of Kuhn?
Needless to say there is nothing Enki has said which is unique (even if one distillls the fact that he only vaguely understands the language or the symbols behind the language or what is called archetypes by Jung). Gematria is a science or art of its own and the most erudite people in the field are my fellow researchers who see the Set or codes of the Matrix. Have you run into the work of The Fetch? He is now working to make his writing more like my own work that he once called histrionics.
The Francis Bacon types (Rosicrucians or Masons) have used these arts to influence mankind in clear ways that work. Of course, they would like to call it magik or say they are Divinely Inspired in some cases - churchians and rabbis. The Fetch is onto the Noahdist or Jehovian mind phuck in a big way.
Thank you for your comments Dan.
| QUOTE (Enki @ Oct 05, 12:20 AM) |
| 1). Does Something Performing Functions of the Delphi Oracle (SPFDO) an imperative element of progress of any civilization? |
| QUOTE |
| It seems to me to be a useful notion to imagine that mind evolves in 'leaps', as if making sudden transitions from one stable state to another stable state. An SPFDO would be an 'idea' that triggers such a transition of individual/social human cognition to a distinctly new stable state. Other such triggers may be environmental, appearing randomly and unintentionally to trigger the transition. An example would be drastic climactic shifts that force a population into a new state of behavior that favors a different state of cognition and associated optimal phenotype. |
I fully agree with that ‘leaps’ idea. Maybe the Noise triggers the transition? And then the Idea or (SPFDO) forms, to make new state stable. The climatic example is an excellent one. Maybe the cybernetic approach here may help to set the understanding at right furrow?
| QUOTE |
| 2). Does our brain always need to get ‘words’ of that SPFDO [some kind of Neuro Push (perturbation)] to progress in its development and pass to new level of reality perception? |
| QUOTE |
| To imagine that evolution of individual/group cognition makes a continuous smooth transition from 'lower' to 'higher' seems to contradict observed patterns of evolution where such transitions occur in leaps. If we want such a transition of cognition to occur, there is likely a quantifiable element of information that must eventually be introduced into the system in order to catalyze the transition. Whether or not this is a 'word' or is simply an environmental stimulus is unimportant, what is important is that it has informational value that is necessary for the cognitive transition. |
I think that those leaps can be associated with the moment of formation of the Words Plateau, after which the brain passes to new level and starts to form the next (self-congruent, logically self-sufficient) Plateau which I was mentioning in the Words Matrix section. The SPFDO possibly can be considered as Catalyst too. I fully agree with this your sentence “Whether or not this is a 'word' or is simply an environmental stimulus is unimportant, what is important is that it has informational value that is necessary for the cognitive transition.”
”
| QUOTE |
| 3). What can be considered as the contemporary SPFDO? |
| QUOTE |
| An SPFDO is any informing stimulus that may trigger a transition to a 'higher' cognitive state. In the recent modern era, such ideas as evolution and quantum physics appear to qualify as SPFDOs. Future SPFDO might be the idea of a human's own consciousness as non-local properties of the universe rather than as localized 'emergent' effects. In such a case, an added SPFDO necessary for completion might be an explanation of how a multiplicity of disjoint consciousnesses is consistent with non-localization of consciousness. |
So we possibly can part SPFDO on two types: static and dynamic. I agree that such ideas as evolution and quantum physics appear to qualify as SPFDOs. Let me consider them as static like the Gothic Temple at the center of the city or at least quasi-static as ideas have tendency of slow evolution with each new generation of scientists [if to slightly follow Hegel the sides of the concepts evolving one into another slowly passing into condition of transcendence (sorry for such violation of Hegel)].
| QUOTE |
4). Can the SPFDO to be considered as Source of Correlation (SC)? |
| QUOTE |
| I would say that the SPFDO is an 'idea' (information) while the SC is the platform that manifests the information into sensible data. |
Interesting definition. I need time to think about that. My understanding of the SC is different, possibly more practical. I will think about that.
| QUOTE |
| 5). Can we say that the society always needs a Source of Correlation [e.g. as the most simple example of SC we can consider Magnificent Gothic temple at the middle of the city which curves does shape mentality of the people of a city. “ ‘First we construct buildings then buildings construct us.” Sir Winston Churchill”]? |
| QUOTE |
| the SPFDO must be 'manifested' and then effectively dispersed to the individuals constituting the society in order for the associated transition to take place. The SC is the nexus of manifestation of the SPFDO and is completely necessary. If there is no SC, then the SPFDO cannot manifest. |
You know, the mood of your vocabulary is so familiar to me. There have to be some common Source of the Correlation.
Thank you for your excellent comments.
Sorry for mistakes in English.
I think on this we can close this thread. I am thankful to all those who added productive comments to this thread.
Bests,
Bests,
URGENT!
I want to say here to the ADMINISTRATOR of this forum, that when my Postings on this Forum in some way are edited (changed or modified) or COMPLETLLY erased like in the section “MY NEXT BOOK” that will be nice to notify me about that. I PROTEST against such dishonest amoral behavior! I consider that as Double Standard policy and violation of my rights. I insist that my privacy be respected. And that my IP address not be given to suspicious people.
This damages credibility and creates negative feelings.
I want to say here to the ADMINISTRATOR of this forum, that when my Postings on this Forum in some way are edited (changed or modified) or COMPLETLLY erased like in the section “MY NEXT BOOK” that will be nice to notify me about that. I PROTEST against such dishonest amoral behavior! I consider that as Double Standard policy and violation of my rights. I insist that my privacy be respected. And that my IP address not be given to suspicious people.
This damages credibility and creates negative feelings.
I want to mention, that though the below numbered threads were scattered over different forums’ sections due to “supreme will” of moderator or administrator I want to note to side reader that the following threads are strongly interrelated (in case if anyone is interested)
1. Words Matrix as Base Fractal of Complex Concept or Knowledge , present location: Neuroscience -> NeuroTechnologies
2. Delphi Oracle , present location: Philosophy & Science -> Philosophy (General)
3. Words Matrix & Delphi Oracle + Small Secrets (SS), present location: Philosophy & Science -> Philosophy (General)
4. Teaching Methodology and Words Matrix, present location: Neuroscience -> NeuroTechnologies
5. Shakespeare writings as Source of Correlation , present location: Miscellany -> Literature, Books, & Movies
6. Olivian Oracle , present location: Poetry & Art -> Poetry
As further movements of the threads are done without asking my opinion I have no ability to continue further monitoring of those threads, moreover I hardly will be frequent on this forum in future. I am sure that later fact will be pleasant for several interested people.
With best wishes to your good desires,
Enki
1. Words Matrix as Base Fractal of Complex Concept or Knowledge , present location: Neuroscience -> NeuroTechnologies
2. Delphi Oracle , present location: Philosophy & Science -> Philosophy (General)
3. Words Matrix & Delphi Oracle + Small Secrets (SS), present location: Philosophy & Science -> Philosophy (General)
4. Teaching Methodology and Words Matrix, present location: Neuroscience -> NeuroTechnologies
5. Shakespeare writings as Source of Correlation , present location: Miscellany -> Literature, Books, & Movies
6. Olivian Oracle , present location: Poetry & Art -> Poetry
As further movements of the threads are done without asking my opinion I have no ability to continue further monitoring of those threads, moreover I hardly will be frequent on this forum in future. I am sure that later fact will be pleasant for several interested people.
With best wishes to your good desires,
Enki
Enki, I moved some of your threads to other boards because you posted them all on the Neurotechnologies board, even though most had nothing to do with neurotechnologies. I did not think it much of a big deal, as my intent was to ensure that threads are placed on the right boards, so that people visiting particular boards don't get turned off by unfitting or misplaced threads. I even left forwarding links behind so that no-one would think the threads had just disappeared. If you can give me a good reason why you think your "Delphi Oracle" thread belongs on the Neurotechnologies board, then I won't have a problem putting it back there. Otherwise, it seems more aptly placed on the general Philosophy board.
Shawn,
Those 5 topics have DIRECT connection with Neuro-Technologies.
You did what you did.
I have added to each topic, which you scattered through the forum, an appropriate message to show, that these threads are a unified conglomerate.
It will take too much time to explain why the Delphi Oracle thread has relation with the Neuro-Technologies.
I do not know have you personally come to that decision or it was triggered by opinion of some other person(s). But I do not want to know that.
Leave them still please as they are now after your movements. Just do not touch them anymore please.
Those 5 topics have DIRECT connection with Neuro-Technologies.
You did what you did.
I have added to each topic, which you scattered through the forum, an appropriate message to show, that these threads are a unified conglomerate.
It will take too much time to explain why the Delphi Oracle thread has relation with the Neuro-Technologies.
I do not know have you personally come to that decision or it was triggered by opinion of some other person(s). But I do not want to know that.
Leave them still please as they are now after your movements. Just do not touch them anymore please.
Nothing Venture Nothing Gain!
I want to remind to the KIDS from NSA the following:
It is not so easy to detect the main Knots of the Correlation (KtC). It may turn so that the All KtC can be activated and correlated via Ordinary Single M-Knot [M-K] (some sort of ordinary cluster formed from Chaotic distribution of Information having some sort of undetectable [uncontrollable] “Marvel’ation’” [where the true Freedom and the unpredictable whims of the “Providence” do lie]). Let me dare to name that phenomenon as Undetectable “Marvel’ation’” (UM).
With best regards,
And kinds wishes,
Yours in War and Love,
Marvelingly yours,
Enki
October 16, 2004 AD.
It is not so easy to detect the main Knots of the Correlation (KtC). It may turn so that the All KtC can be activated and correlated via Ordinary Single M-Knot [M-K] (some sort of ordinary cluster formed from Chaotic distribution of Information having some sort of undetectable [uncontrollable] “Marvel’ation’” [where the true Freedom and the unpredictable whims of the “Providence” do lie]). Let me dare to name that phenomenon as Undetectable “Marvel’ation’” (UM).
With best regards,
And kinds wishes,
Yours in War and Love,
Marvelingly yours,
Enki
October 16, 2004 AD.
i think that many of the oracals had a great amount of training in their art
with this training they were able to attain a level of skill that surpassed all others that were known at that time.
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