Dear Dan
I would agree with these thoughts of yours.
it is a waste to 'kill' a state of being if that state of being is survivable and can act positively in the universe. It would be a disappointment to see a valuable state of being self-destruct.
Except that I know I can help just as much from the non-corporeal and get on to the next stage - and yet at this juncture I am glad I did not exit - because I have done all I wanted to do in terms of putting history straight and some other expressions that still need a little refining - but I can now leave with no sense of regret is all that means.
Full Version: Hallowed be thy name
well, I am not so sure about the non-corporeal hypothesis although I admit that I cannot discount it and in fact do have ideas in which it makes some degree of sense. I do wonder how you can feel certain of it, though, as anything less than total certainty implies the risk of wasting any remaining positive potential of your relatively rare 'state of being' upon undertaking such an 'exit'
Dear Dan
I am a skeptic by inclination - nothing is possible to be totally, certainly and absolutely true - and as each day goes by I am more certain there is nothing that is for sure.
That beng said - I can make decisions based on probabilities and those probabilities are the thing that makes me excited about what lays ahead rather than continuing to do nothing more than the same old same old - successful though I was.
I was fortunate to do almost all the things people strive to achieve very early in life and I enjoyed the time that most people call middle age more than any man has a right to expect. As I sometimes say - my epitaph should read 'been there done that'.
The one thing that I felt I would not have the time to do -and the ability to complete - I have also now pretty much finished. It took a very total committment of energy on all levels of existence for the last five years. I still am learning and growing but not all that much. I can grow more elsewhere - and the purpose of my life will be carried on by others to whom the torch is passed regardless of whether or not I get any credit.
So why should a person (soul) continue if all they will achieve is recognition for something that really is little more than setting history straight?
That said there is one thing I would like to see - if it is correct - and that is my idea about the manna machine. But thanks to you I have laid out my thoughts on it too.
I am a skeptic by inclination - nothing is possible to be totally, certainly and absolutely true - and as each day goes by I am more certain there is nothing that is for sure.
That beng said - I can make decisions based on probabilities and those probabilities are the thing that makes me excited about what lays ahead rather than continuing to do nothing more than the same old same old - successful though I was.
I was fortunate to do almost all the things people strive to achieve very early in life and I enjoyed the time that most people call middle age more than any man has a right to expect. As I sometimes say - my epitaph should read 'been there done that'.
The one thing that I felt I would not have the time to do -and the ability to complete - I have also now pretty much finished. It took a very total committment of energy on all levels of existence for the last five years. I still am learning and growing but not all that much. I can grow more elsewhere - and the purpose of my life will be carried on by others to whom the torch is passed regardless of whether or not I get any credit.
So why should a person (soul) continue if all they will achieve is recognition for something that really is little more than setting history straight?
That said there is one thing I would like to see - if it is correct - and that is my idea about the manna machine. But thanks to you I have laid out my thoughts on it too.
| QUOTE |
| So why should a person (soul) continue if all they will achieve is recognition for something that really is little more than setting history straight? |
Indeed
however, this statement assumes that in fact there is no other positive contribution that can be made under continuation of corporeality. Conversely, if one is certain of the existence and value of 'non-corporeal' existence and is certain that more good can be done in this state of non-corporeality, then in fact every second spent continuing corporeal existence is itself a waste and a disappointment.
The key is knowledge. Do you really know what is the best action? And if you are not sure and must then gamble, can you honestly say that your gamble is born of the purest intent?
RTB, your talk of souls sounds a bit contaminated by christian concepts, which i guess is not surprising since you're in all likelihood a westerner. Am i right? I know i am. You westerners read a little krishna and henceforth become inclined to think you're enlightened since you've now united the east with the west, the male with the female, the ying and the yang. Such buffoonery and misguidedness can be amusing at times, but alas, I weary of it. If only they could do the same.
One line in your essay caught my attention: "What value is there in an education where 'do-gooders' are diminished by egoists who don't even observe that humanity has higher aspirations than mere selfish recognition in the mode of such arcane and abstruse ideologues and pedagogues as Hegel?" Indeed, you begin to touch the surface of it: What value is there is repeating what has been done by countless others before us? What value is there in life when our experiences are so fleeting and our stay on this earth so short? Do you think you'll mean anything 1000 years from now, much less be remembered? Do you think the span of 1000 years will mean anything when compared to the 10 billion years of the known universe? Do you think we little humans here on earth mean anything in the vastness of the universe? Reflect on those vast silent spaces, as did Pascal. Let us consider how little we are in the face of nature and of how meaningless this whole charade called 'normal human life' really is. How many of you think it acceptable to be a little cog in a big machine? Think I'm talking about being in a big corporation? No, I mean even people who think they are free spirits.
Let us reflect long and hard on the seeming meaninglessness of it all, for the ego fears the contemplation of such meaninglessness and will do everything it can to rationalize this meaninglessness, this nihilism, away. Only in the vast arid deserts of Nihilism do we find true meaning, not as belief in something external to us, as some christian/jewish God, but in something else. Only in the vast deserts of meaninglessness do we realize a meaningfulness that transcends the individual and the personal. Those who run from the desert into a false oasis are fools. They only seek to satisfy their personal needs. They are pigs at bottom. But those who remain in the desert, who give all of themselves, not because they expect reward, and not because they desire stroking of their ego, but because they have the strength for it, a strength that is not their own, and because they would rather die out in the desert than huddle over filthy waters beside pigs in false oases.
Nihilism: go ye therefore. Mind you, I am no nihilist.
One line in your essay caught my attention: "What value is there in an education where 'do-gooders' are diminished by egoists who don't even observe that humanity has higher aspirations than mere selfish recognition in the mode of such arcane and abstruse ideologues and pedagogues as Hegel?" Indeed, you begin to touch the surface of it: What value is there is repeating what has been done by countless others before us? What value is there in life when our experiences are so fleeting and our stay on this earth so short? Do you think you'll mean anything 1000 years from now, much less be remembered? Do you think the span of 1000 years will mean anything when compared to the 10 billion years of the known universe? Do you think we little humans here on earth mean anything in the vastness of the universe? Reflect on those vast silent spaces, as did Pascal. Let us consider how little we are in the face of nature and of how meaningless this whole charade called 'normal human life' really is. How many of you think it acceptable to be a little cog in a big machine? Think I'm talking about being in a big corporation? No, I mean even people who think they are free spirits.
Let us reflect long and hard on the seeming meaninglessness of it all, for the ego fears the contemplation of such meaninglessness and will do everything it can to rationalize this meaninglessness, this nihilism, away. Only in the vast arid deserts of Nihilism do we find true meaning, not as belief in something external to us, as some christian/jewish God, but in something else. Only in the vast deserts of meaninglessness do we realize a meaningfulness that transcends the individual and the personal. Those who run from the desert into a false oasis are fools. They only seek to satisfy their personal needs. They are pigs at bottom. But those who remain in the desert, who give all of themselves, not because they expect reward, and not because they desire stroking of their ego, but because they have the strength for it, a strength that is not their own, and because they would rather die out in the desert than huddle over filthy waters beside pigs in false oases.
Nihilism: go ye therefore. Mind you, I am no nihilist.
| QUOTE (Unknown @ Sep 19, 09:46 PM) |
| Let us reflect long and hard on the seeming meaninglessness of it all, for the ego fears the contemplation of such meaninglessness and will do everything it can to rationalize this meaninglessness, this nihilism, away. Only in the vast arid deserts of Nihilism do we find true meaning, not as belief in something external to us, as some christian/jewish God, but in something else. Only in the vast deserts of meaninglessness do we realize a meaningfulness that transcends the individual and the personal. Those who run from the desert into a false oasis are fools. They only seek to satisfy their personal needs. They are pigs at bottom. But those who remain in the desert, who give all of themselves, not because they expect reward, and not because they desire stroking of their ego, but because they have the strength for it, a strength that is not their own, and because they would rather die out in the desert than huddle over filthy waters beside pigs in false oases. Nihilism: go ye therefore. Mind you, I am no nihilist. |
There are no Answers.
There are only Choices.
| QUOTE (Unknown @ Sep 19, 06:46 PM) |
| ... the ego fears the contemplation of such meaninglessness and will do everything it can to rationalize this meaninglessness, this nihilism, away. Only in the vast arid deserts of Nihilism do we find true meaning.... only in the vast deserts of meaninglessness do we realize a meaningfulness that transcends the individual and the personal. ... those who remain in the desert, who give all of themselves, not because they expect reward, and not because they desire stroking of their ego, but because they have the strength for it, a strength that is not their own, and because they would rather die out in the desert than huddle over filthy waters beside pigs in false oases. Mind you, I am no nihilist. |
there is a bit of doubletalk here, in that to start with 'nihilism'/meaninglessness in order to arrive at true meaning is a contradiction. If, in fact, there is no meaning, then no appeal to this vast desert of meaninglessness will ever reveal any 'true' meaning as, by definition, no such meaning exists. Any person who has interest in continuing to engage such a meaningless state of being is truly a naked masochist and noone to be revered.
perhaps this is why you are not a 'nihilist'?
Dear Unknown
Proclamations about something with no evidence sounds Christian and Western to me - sure you aren't looking in the mirror. That mindset that sees what Prof Lynn White de-constructed and saw as the Euro-centric need to be at some mythical zenith of civilization is largely what I have writte 22 history books to demonstrate was and is bunk.
My concept of soul - that you think is Western is simply beyond your conception I suspect. But since you passed judgment on it - please define what it is.
Proclamations about something with no evidence sounds Christian and Western to me - sure you aren't looking in the mirror. That mindset that sees what Prof Lynn White de-constructed and saw as the Euro-centric need to be at some mythical zenith of civilization is largely what I have writte 22 history books to demonstrate was and is bunk.
My concept of soul - that you think is Western is simply beyond your conception I suspect. But since you passed judgment on it - please define what it is.
Dear Dan
I see this as a repetition of what I already partially agreed with and went on to say - I know nothing for certain but have experience to guide me. I suspect most people who have been unable to witness or be taken to other dimensions (such as I was up until it happened to me through the acts of adepts - and I am not talking mere astral travel) would not be able to be as certain or as knowledgeable. And I really do not wish to encourage others to travel that path anyway. It is part of the Stele I spoke about too - and Carlos addresses why that stele was a dimensional travel thing too as I covered in the radio interviews (have you listened?).
I see this as a repetition of what I already partially agreed with and went on to say - I know nothing for certain but have experience to guide me. I suspect most people who have been unable to witness or be taken to other dimensions (such as I was up until it happened to me through the acts of adepts - and I am not talking mere astral travel) would not be able to be as certain or as knowledgeable. And I really do not wish to encourage others to travel that path anyway. It is part of the Stele I spoke about too - and Carlos addresses why that stele was a dimensional travel thing too as I covered in the radio interviews (have you listened?).
| QUOTE (Dan @ Sep 19, 06:07 PM) | ||
there is a bit of doubletalk here, in that to start with 'nihilism'/meaningless in order to arrive at true meaning is a contradiction. If, in fact, there is no meaning, then no appeal to this vast desert of meaninglessness will ever reveal any 'true' meaning as, by definition, no such meaning exists. Any person who has interest in continuing to engage such a meaningless state of being is truly a naked masochist and nothing to be revered. perhaps this is why you are not a 'nihilist'? |
" there is a bit of doubletalk here, in that to start with 'nihilism'/meaningless in order to arrive at true meaning is a contradiction. "
Dan, how often does a seeming contradiction belie a profound truth.
"If, in fact, there is no meaning, then no appeal to this vast desert ..."
unless falseness and weakness is despised more than a possibly impending or apparent meaninglessness. Despised so much, in fact, that one would rather sacrifice oneself for the mere possibility of attaining something higher and worthier than to accept the certainty of falseness.
"Any person who has interest in continuing to engage such a meaningless state of being is truly a naked masochist and nothing to be revered."
Dan, your sexual fantasies are beside the point. Try to keep them to yourself or share them with someone who can reciprocate.
| QUOTE (Dan @ Sep 19, 12:11 PM) |
| don't worry Enki, some of us can see our enemies clearly no matter the propaganda and b.s. thrown in the way |
In matters related with RCT I am not speaking about imaginary terror and I am not speaking about combined resistance against fantastic forces. I am speaking about simple worldly terrorism without any serious incorporation of ANY fantastic conspiracy theory. Please not mix the all in one pot.
I am talking about very simple matters where synergy is needed.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 06:19 PM) |
| My concept of soul - that you think is Western is simply beyond your conception I suspect. But since you passed judgment on it - please define what it is. |
RTB, there are many ways to interpret your concept of soul. Your western lineage and indoctrination and upbringing into western culture may have biological ramifications for your understanding and experience of eastern concepts. That was my only point. That our biology, our genes and upbringing, probably plays a role in our consciousness and our understanding of other ppl's concepts, particularly when those people have very different biologies. I wasn't really passing judgment; just sharing thoughts, reactions, to your post.
Dear Enki
Yes, you are talking about a very simple code - nothing more.
Yes, you are talking about a very simple code - nothing more.
| QUOTE |
| ...as I covered in the radio interviews (have you listened?). |
I haven't listened. Where can I find the interviews?
| QUOTE |
| "If, in fact, there is no meaning, then no appeal to this vast desert of meaninglessness will ever reveal any 'true' meaning as, by definition, no such meaning exists.." unless falseness and weakness is despised more than a possibly impending or apparent meaninglessness. Despised so much, in fact, that one would rather sacrifice oneself for the mere possibility of attaining something higher and worthier than to accept the certainty of falseness. |
My comment regards the hypothetical case where existence is known to be utterly and totally meaningless, not a 'possibly impending or apparent meaninglessness'. In the case that the question of meaninglessness of corporeal existence is not answered, then the question of choosing whether or not to exist corporeally remains open. The only reason to gamble one's existence in the face of this open question is if one is not strong enough to withstand the weight of suffering in uncertainty.
| QUOTE |
| Dan, your sexual fantasies are beside the point. Try to keep them to yourself or share them with someone who can reciprocate. |
c'mon, dude, I know you've got some gayness in there somewhere
Dear Unknown
If as you now say - there are many ways to interpret my conception of the soul - how pray tell can you comment on it - if you are not able to say what it is - and Western or Eastern or anything else at all.
I think my amalgam of historical insights shows the whole idea of so-called Western and (!) Eastern actually have the same source. There is no difference really. All religions and myths come from a worldwide culture and I demonstrate it with the increasing amount of artifacts that people like Campbell did not have though he did a great job of it.
Then there is the matter of creativity and physics that plays an important role in my perception of what the soul is - thus I wrote a book called Integrating Soul and Science which I shared with Shawn here.
Other books that address the subject collaterally are Hitler vs. Frabato and The Charm of Making, Death Has Much to Teach Us, Demonology as used by Synarchists and probably a few others that are related including a more historical book called Hitler and the Occult.
Then there are many books of a more fictional and biographical sort like The Nos Feratu, The Red Headed Legue and People on the Path (which is my Gurdjieffian Meetings WIth Remarkable Men).
If as you now say - there are many ways to interpret my conception of the soul - how pray tell can you comment on it - if you are not able to say what it is - and Western or Eastern or anything else at all.
I think my amalgam of historical insights shows the whole idea of so-called Western and (!) Eastern actually have the same source. There is no difference really. All religions and myths come from a worldwide culture and I demonstrate it with the increasing amount of artifacts that people like Campbell did not have though he did a great job of it.
Then there is the matter of creativity and physics that plays an important role in my perception of what the soul is - thus I wrote a book called Integrating Soul and Science which I shared with Shawn here.
Other books that address the subject collaterally are Hitler vs. Frabato and The Charm of Making, Death Has Much to Teach Us, Demonology as used by Synarchists and probably a few others that are related including a more historical book called Hitler and the Occult.
Then there are many books of a more fictional and biographical sort like The Nos Feratu, The Red Headed Legue and People on the Path (which is my Gurdjieffian Meetings WIth Remarkable Men).
Dear Dan
The first interview with Jack Landman is best listened to from World-Mysteries.com where it is cut down to just my part of his four hour show. Click on my guest writer icon or name and it will be at the top of the page.
The first interview with Jack Landman is best listened to from World-Mysteries.com where it is cut down to just my part of his four hour show. Click on my guest writer icon or name and it will be at the top of the page.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 06:43 PM) |
| If as you now say - there are many ways to interpret my conception of the soul - how pray tell can you comment on it - if you are not able to say what it is - and Western or Eastern or anything else at all. I think my amalgam of historical insights shows the whole idea of so-called Western and (!) Eastern actually have the same source. |
and this is coming from someone who publicly proclaims that only fools claim to be wise, and only the wise claim to be fools and to know nothing. Pray tell what role you're playing now and whether there's a special place in your worldly scheme for hypocrites?
Nothing hypocritical about calling liars out for the liars they are is there. The fact is this - Western and Eastern thought comes from the same source and the worldwide managers of culture have been with us a very long time. So you also are exposed as a liar who pontificates upon something you do not know (my conception of a soul) and then use ad hominems to proceed when exposed. But I will play that game to - liar that you are.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 07:46 PM) |
| Dear Dan The first interview with Jack Landman is best listened to from World-Mysteries.com where it is cut down to just my part of his four hour show. Click on my guest writer icon or name and it will be at the top of the page. |
I now recall having listened to that one already and offering a knee-jerk diagnosis of assburgler's syndrome for you and your dad (just a little 'dynamic' investigation, no offense intended). I actually am asking if I can get access to your latest interview, although I gather from your response that I cannot.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 06:57 PM) |
| Nothing hypocritical about calling liars out for the liars they are is there. The fact is this - Western and Eastern thought comes from the same source and the worldwide managers of culture have been with us a very long time. So you also are exposed as a liar who pontificates upon something you do not know (my conception of a soul) and then use ad hominems to proceed when exposed. But I will play that game to - liar that you are. |
RTB, your logic is awesome. I prostrate myself before it.
BTW
You quoted that saying or understanding thereof with the same kind of nonsense that a person using the name Vorle used on me a while ago - I do not say I know Nothing. I say I know that nothing is absolutely certain and the more I do know the more I know there is to learn.
So if you are that same ego driven fool - up yours - again!
You quoted that saying or understanding thereof with the same kind of nonsense that a person using the name Vorle used on me a while ago - I do not say I know Nothing. I say I know that nothing is absolutely certain and the more I do know the more I know there is to learn.
So if you are that same ego driven fool - up yours - again!
Dear Dan
Yes, it may take a week or two.
And I remember that diagnoses and how it was far more accurate than any that all the psyche-out artists engaged in.
I thought it led to some good growth, even though it does not apply to me or my father. If there was a Syndrome I would like to have -that would be it.
Yes, it may take a week or two.
And I remember that diagnoses and how it was far more accurate than any that all the psyche-out artists engaged in.
I thought it led to some good growth, even though it does not apply to me or my father. If there was a Syndrome I would like to have -that would be it.
| QUOTE (Unknown @ Sep 19, 07:54 PM) |
| and this is coming from someone... |
If unknowns would restrain themselves from ad hominem arguments the tone of these discussions might remain at a higher level.
Wouldn't that be nice?
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 06:34 PM) |
| Dear Enki Yes, you are talking about a very simple code - nothing more. |
Dear Robert,
Certainly I am speaking about very simple code.
Do you think Arab terrorists have university degrees to percept complex Words Matrixes?
Their manual diminished to level of Words Matrix have to be simple so they be able to understand it.
Besides the substance is also extremely important, it is one of the key factor of "success," where simplicity is combined with other knowledges, e.g. engineering, electronics, pneumatics, aeronautics and many, many others you have no idea about.
Like bread and salt.
Simplicity is the key factor of success of any proactive deadly virus.
But as you are peaceful man eating ambrosias you cannot understand that.
Besides I do not call it code, and from my point of view it can be considered as simple Words Matrix. But you do not understand full power of that complex approach as you are grammarian-philosopher.
Dear Enki
It is also a form of terrorism to hound a person and pursue them on threads that are not designed for the inputs you are making (and former personal messages that you have used). Again - you are enthralled with your ego and your thought that is an obvious and simple thing though.
It is also a form of terrorism to hound a person and pursue them on threads that are not designed for the inputs you are making (and former personal messages that you have used). Again - you are enthralled with your ego and your thought that is an obvious and simple thing though.
I do not see any reason to dispute with you, as your comments do not add anything substantial for me.
For me the criterion of truth is the experiment.
Your words are just useless for me, if you think that you discredit something in the eyes of the beholders by your useless comments and self-assured declarations, then I have to disappoint you.
I read very interesting and useful comments from other members of the forum and your resistance by itself is a very good indicative. You just do not understand that. I think it i your tragedy.
For me the criterion of truth is the experiment.
Your words are just useless for me, if you think that you discredit something in the eyes of the beholders by your useless comments and self-assured declarations, then I have to disappoint you.
I read very interesting and useful comments from other members of the forum and your resistance by itself is a very good indicative. You just do not understand that. I think it i your tragedy.
Yes, Enki and it is my tradgedy that I cannot reaad all your Holy books or whatever it is that makes you so very special.
By the way Robert,
Does your family have any connection with Sir Robert Bruce Cotton?
What I am most interested is his Library.
Have not your Father kept some specific old hand written book-diary ever?
Does your family have any connection with Sir Robert Bruce Cotton?
What I am most interested is his Library.
Have not your Father kept some specific old hand written book-diary ever?
| QUOTE (Enki @ Sep 18, 02:03 PM) |
| Human faces are the most dangerous things. They can destroy any concept. Their dinamic image (even grasped by an artist) contains so much, that sometimes it has much power than words. Human face has horrific power. Some religions do not permit to protray human image. And unfortunatly I know why. |
Why?
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Sep 19, 07:33 AM) |
| We do not need a new Messiah to mess up our ability to think for ourselves. |
Sounds like great advice.
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