Robert the Bruce
Aug 24, 2004, 12:00 AM
About the Author: Howard Bloom
biography of Howard Bloom, Visiting Scholar, New York University, author of The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History and Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind ... About the Author: Howard Bloom. " For those who worry that our ingenuity has upset nature's equilibrium, Bloom ... he lives in Brooklyn. …Howard Bloom is next in a lineage of ...
www.bookworld.com/lucifer/author.html
Trip like I do
Aug 24, 2004, 05:46 AM
My local library has both copies in circulation, so I've ordered them.
Global Brain sounds like a great read.
I'm presently reading:
"The Quantum Self: Human Nature and Consciousness Defined by the New Physics"
by Danah Zohar
Robert the Bruce
Aug 24, 2004, 02:48 PM
Current psychological research shows there is indeed a NEED to belong and religion has been USED to address this and empower some through this NEED. I include part of my current book and I will highlight the section dealing with the research.
Howard Bloom chose an interesting title for another of his books. From Bloom's The Lucifer Principle available in an excerpt from the web we have,
NOTE:
"An even broader investigation by James J. Lynch of actuarial and statistical data on victims of cardiovascular disease indicated that an astonishing percentage of the million or so Americans killed by heart problems each year have an underlying difficulty that seems to trigger their sickness: ‘lack of warmth and meaningful relationships with others.’ On the other hand, research in Europe suggested that kissing on a regular basis provides additional oxygen and stimulates the output of antibodies.
Closeness to others can heal. Separation can kill." (8)
END of HIGHLIGHT:
Dr. Ron Podell's work on depression shows that we can CATCH depression. Dr. Gray (Men are from Mars… - not this one but in a later book) says there is a psychic drain in any family or organizational unit. The harmonic balance and mutable brain wavelengths of certain organisms or people are more affected or sensitive if they are not trained via coping skills they gradually imbibe toxic energy build up and behave insanely - much in humans has to do with breathing and oxygen deprivation of a little bit every day. This is my own observation but the above research on kissing does seem to connect. I think SIDS is connected to this as well.
Bloom also addresses the shaping of reality research that is on-going in consciousness and psychological research. Each researcher or discipline has something to add and yet is still seems the mystics were right and what is Above or in other dimensions is here Below as the laws bring forth greater depths. The traditional Jewish ritualists speak about making a Golem and using the alchemical homonunclus or artificial man. They have many uses of power and I know some of them were able to infiltrate or take a role in many elite groups of Rome or Tartessus long before Yeshua or Jesus. In The Rising Roman Empire I documented Antonines and other families with a history of this esoteric knowledge up to and including the alchemists of the Ptolemaic lineage. But average people probably got a little tired of these power games being used against them at various times. Thus the expulsions from many places at different times which we have already seen are not just The Diaspora but there are many Diasporas.
One of my suspicions has to do with the Borgias who married into the De Medicis and include the likes of Pope Alexander VI and founders of the Alumbrados or Illuminati. I believe their ‘remote poison’ was indeed ‘remote’ and operated through psi effects such as action-at-a-distance. In another book I showed Hitler’s Freemasonic Order of the Golden Centurion which he may have become part of long before his public acclaim, had a remote action machine called a tepaphone which I am told I am correct in saying includes copper and quartz just as many Druidic Sceptres and harmonic activators had long ago. There is more to learn about The Lost Chord to be sure. Here is an analysis of the destruction of the Temple and Diaspora myth from the Jewish academics.
“The Rabbis then thought to have Bar Kamsa killed in order that word not be brought back to the Caesar. Rabbi Zacharia ben Avkolus again disagreed, fearing that people may think that one who brings an animal with a blemish can be put to death.
Rabbi Yochanan at this point taught that due to the extreme piety of Rabbi Zacharia ben Avkolus, the Temple was destroyed, the Sanctuary burnt in flames and we were exiled from our land.
This is one of the stories in the Talmud, the rest is history. What we need to do is to analyze this story to understand what the sages were trying to convey in the story.
First, we can note that the combined incidences of the host of the banquet and Bar Kamsa showed a tremendous lack of feelings for the welfare of another. From this we learn the importance of putting other people’s feelings ahead of our desires. Still, this does not compare to the lack of action on the part of the assembled Rabbis at the banquet, who, had they protested the lack of consideration, could have averted a national tragedy. We learn from this the awesome responsibilities of those people who are in positions of leadership and influence. Yet even more so, is the blame on the shoulders of Rabbi Zacharia ben Avkolus, because of his great piety, not only was the Temple and Jerusalem destroyed, but we were exiled through out the nations. Rabbi Zacharia ben Avkolus who was the leader and most influential man in his generation should have seen the results of his actions. National leaders must know when to stand firm and when and how to bend, to avoid disastrous results. He must be able to put his own personal agenda and feelings aside and make proper decisions.
May we all learn from this chilling episode in our Jewish History, that our behavior is of extreme importance. May we, through the good will and cheerful help that we are able to give to another fellow Jew, see the rebuilding of the Temple swiftly in our days.” (9)
These myths have positive aspects and other layers of meaning. It is a common thing among people to think there is a great growth in understanding psychology going on. But however true that might be there was an understanding in days gone by that people needed to be part of the group. Here is a little more from one of the Bloom links we have provided.
NOTE:
“At six, children are obsessed with being accepted by the group and become incredibly sensitive to violations of group norms. They've been gripped by yet another conformity enforcer which structures their perceptions to coincide with those around them.” (10)
END of HIGHLIGHT:
Thus we have meditative rituals using ‘chhi’ and other energy as well as oxygen that affects everyday coping and metabolism that builds in much more sublimated or sub-conscious ways than we might imagine. These awarenesses have been studied and used as well as words and symbols or archetypes to allow some of us to control others. The purely intellectual or written and spoken dogma is only part of it. In medieval times the Jews called Sephardim in Spain were moved to bring back the feminine goddess that they had diminished or expunged from their dogma. They did this in the Zohar through the creation of the Matronit.
I have shown that Tartessus or the Iberians on Spain had a connection with the Semites of Phocaea and others through a long history. The Merovingians who went to Southern France went there because they already had outposts and alliances there. This later led to the Cathar movements and ecumenical belief systems that incorporated Judaism and Sufism. Thus I do not consider the Sephardim diaspora as particularly important or something that should be thought of as poor slaves serving some previous landowners who allowed them to co-habit this region. I say it is another example of lesser Jewish folk being made use of by the elite. Here is a little of the common academic insight on the matter.
“The first settlements appear to have been on the Mediterranean coast, and traces have been found in such cities as Ampurias, {This name indicates a probable connection to Emporia established near Massalia in conjunction with the King of Tartessus in 500 BC by the Phocaeans whose Bee symbol is well known.} Mataró, Tarragon, Adra, Malaga, Cadiz and Merida. One of the earliest archeological finds is the funerary stone of the Samaritan Justin of Merida, dated in the 2nd century. {Referring to AD} This epitaph, along with those of the young girl Salomonula and the rabbi Lasies, allow us to affirm the presence of Jews in the first centuries of the Christian era. The Jews of Roman Spain must have been labourers or even slaves, advancing to prosperity bit by bit in the coastal business cities. The Jewish communities must have been important enough in the 4th century for the Council of Elvira, Granada, to address several rulings to them. This is the first time the Church concerns itself with the possible danger the Jews present for the New Christians, enabled by convivencia to judaize.” (11)
Trip like I do
Aug 24, 2004, 04:58 PM
| QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 24, 05:46 AM) |
"The Quantum Self: Human Nature and Consciousness Defined by the New Physics" by Danah Zohar |
Turning out to be a bit outdated, for it was written in 1990.
It still is a great read, I'd recommend it to anyone trying to catch up to where the latest developments in Quantum research developed and derived from, of course not solely from this source, but I'm sure it was a contributor to the present Quantum phenomena. The author seems to have impressive credentials and valid support, of which includes Erik Erickson, of whom she was a student at Harvard.
This book purports to cover Quantum psychology, Quantum responsibility, Quantum morality, Quantum aesthetics, Quantum immorality, the Quantum worldview, and Quantum theology.
Before, and during reading of any material, one should cognisize the fact of the enclosed informations' relativity, i.e. date published, author (male or female biased), publishers, location, and the current social collective mental paradigm.
And then ask what is this information in front of you trying to propagandize and does it fit into your current schematical structure.
She drew some good analogies.
Wrote about Cartesian doubt and Newtonian classical physics of the 17th century.
Both changed reality and the way 17th century perceptions were formed of individuality and collectiveness. Cartesian philosophy = "I" centered culture dominated by egocentricity with emphasis on the "I" and "mine".
Classical physics - were Newton's vision tore us out from the fabric of the universe itself. It transformed the Greek orientated Cosmos, filled with intelligence and driven by the love of God for the benefit of Man, into a dead clockwork machine.
Human beings and their struggles were irrelevant to the workings of the vast universal machine.
I've posted info on other threads referring to this global mechanization that occurred during these times. Check out the Velikovsky thread and posts on Lewis Mumford.
Marx, Darwin, and the forces of Freuds dark psyche all owe their inspiration to Newtonian physical theory. Throughout history we have drawn our conception of ourselves and our place in the universe from the current physical theory of the day.
Relativity itself is about the physics of high velocities and very great distances. Quantum physics is that tiny micro world within the atom, it describes the inner workings of everything we see and, at least, physically are.
The whole world of matter is made up of atoms and their even smaller components. I.e. a single photon of light affects the sensitivity of the optic nerve.
Quantum leaps (analogies).
Asserts consciousness, like matter, emerges from the world of quantum events.
Our thought patterns may be explained and mirrored (sounds so narcissistic) by the same laws and behaviour patterns that govern the world of electrons and photons.
Does our intellect derive its laws from nature?
I'm eager to read these Bloom books and compare data from a relativisitic point of view. See what kind of analogies he made and can be made.
See if my brain will bloom.
Trip like I do
Aug 24, 2004, 05:21 PM
Some regurgitated regurgitation.
Sorry about the spelling. I tend to type first, post second, edit third.
There is nothing worse than following a great train of thought and stumbling over mis-spelled words.
Words are extremely important don't you think?
Vernacular vocabulary, emphasis, interpretaion.
Verbal vernacular is the essence of knowledge for language is the objective while thoughts are the subjective. Possibly, there are no words, in any vocabulary, that presently describe what our subjectively cognizant minds observe of objective realities.
Repitition.
Trip like I do
Aug 24, 2004, 06:42 PM
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Aug 24, 02:48 PM) |
The Merovingians who went to Southern France went there because they already had outposts and alliances there.
|
Who were these pre-connections in France and where did they settle, do you know?
Fisher Kings. Templars. Freemasonry. Monasticism. Calvinism. Reformation.
Crusades. Philadelphes.
Did they not derive their pedegree from 5th century King Merovee of France?
Prieure de Sion - the secret brotherhood, guardians of the Holy Grail, and bloodline of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
St. Bernard Clairvaux, Merovingian founder of the Cistercian Order.
The Knights Templar - 12th - 14th century warrior monks and protectors of the Holy Land. They were the 1st standing troops to be properly trained and commanded in western Europe since the fall of the Roman Empire. They wore the distinctive white vestiments of Bernard's Cistercian brotherhood with the red cross at the centre of the chest.
De Laude Movae Militiae. Dagobert. Peter the Hermit, one of the chief instigators of the crusades and Godfroide Bouillonn's personal tutor, who in turn disolved the Templars c. 1307 - 1314.
The Prieure de Sion remained unscathed.
The Great Tribulation.
"The Roman Catholic Church will ride the beast 'drunken with the blood of the saints and with the martyrs of Jesus'."
Jaques de Molay - Grand Master of the Knights Templar.
Thomas Plantarde Saint-Calire - current Grand Master of the Prieure de Sion.
"Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "Bloodline of the Holy Grail" are publications of the Prieure de Sion.
Knights Templars preceeded the Rosicucians and Freemasons.
The Stewarts were the 13th Illuminaughty family from which the Anti-Christ will come. Princess Di was of the Stewart lineage.
Prince Michael Stewart of Albany - Head of the European Council of Princes.
Findhorn, Scotland - new age Vatican.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 24, 2004, 08:08 PM
Yes, I have lots of pre-Christian roots for the Merovingians and far more ancient and historically correct than the stuff you list here. That stuff is very new and lots of it is 'smoke and mirrors' or hard to ascertain with any certainty. The BEES - Merovingians and Milesians (House of Mallia on Crete etc) include the Tartessian and Phocaean alliance which I may even mention in DD - which you are reading I think. In any event I have hordes of stuff additional to what is in there - it merely sets the stage for a whole new history of man's cultural evolution.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 24, 2004, 08:14 PM
To illustrate the HIDE THE BALL nature of these members of the 'octopus': you have an interesting observation which I would like references for -
You say 'Holy Blood, Holy Grail' and 'Bloodline of the Grail' are supported or put out by the Priory. I can show the latter is indeed supported by the Dragons and Hibernians like Bernard's lot who are above and older than the Priory. The former - I can imagine some thoughts about Lincoln might head that way - but I tend to think it is not.
You also mention a Thomas Plantard and I seem to recall Pierre Plantard was the head guy but left the Priory or it's top spot - do you have references or links?
Unknown
Aug 25, 2004, 05:12 AM
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/priory-of-sion-more.html.
Pierre Plantard.
Iwill have to do some digging to find that source again. I'll look later today, I have a few things that need to be done first.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 25, 2004, 06:54 AM
Nothing new there - just a list of names. Worth a read though.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 07:13 AM
Try this site:
http://watch.pair.com/priory.html "The current Grand Master of the Prieuré de Sion is Thomas Plantard de Saint-Claire, whose tenure began in
THE HOUSE OF STEWART
It is noteworthy that the late Princess Diana was a member of the Stuart bloodline, fifth removed from Charles II (9) and the Stuarts claim a greater nobility than the reigning House of Windsor, a bloodline that is not mentioned in the Merovingian list of worthies. Moreover, the contribution of the Stuart family is duly acclaimed, along with the glories of Freemasonry:"
Although I do not claim this area as my expertise (your domain), I find the topic quite interesting and am going to look into it further. Please bare with me if my facts don't match yours, I'm sure (hope) you will rectify my unenligtedness in this regard.
There is one more site I want to post regarding the cronological dates of the succesive Grand Masters. I have to go find it first.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 07:17 AM
http://www.geocities.com/lord_visionary/prieure_de_sion.htmOther Grand Masters
In the Dossiers secrets the following individuals are listed as successive grand masters of the Prieure de Sion.
Jean de Gisors 1188 - 1220
Marie de Saint-Clair 1220 - 1266
Guillaume de Gisors 1266 - 1307 who is said to have organized the Prieure de Sion into an "Hermetic Freemasonry"
Edouard de Bar 1307 - 1336
Jeanne de Bar 1336 - 1351
Jean de Saint-Clair 1351 - 1366
Blanche d'Evreux 1366 - 1398
Nicolas Flamel 1398 - 1418
Rene d'Anjou 1418 - 1480
Iolande de Bar 1480 - 1483
Sandro Filipepi 1483 - 1510
Leonardo da Vinci 1510 - 1519
Connetable de Bourbon 1519 - 1527
Ferdinand de Gonzague 1527 - 1575
Louis de Nevers 1575 - 1595
Robert Fludd 1595 - 1637
J. Valentine Andrea 1637 - 1654
Robert Boyle 1654 - 1691
Isaac Newton 1691 - 1727
Charles Radclyffe 1727 - 1746
Charles de Lorraine 1746 - 1780
Maximilian de Lorraine 1780 - 1801
Charles Nodier 1801 - 1844
Victor Hugo 1844 - 1885
Claude Debussy 1885 - 1918
Jean Cocteau 1918 -
There are some interesting Masters, considering how some of them have moulded the minds of their relative times, as well as today's.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 07:27 AM
Coversational Terrorism
Delay Tactics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If, when put on the spot to answer a question or point, you come up blank, then delay tactics can buy time to dream up a response. These tactics are risky, because if you are not able to think of anything clever during the time you buy, you will be pinned even further.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 07:50 AM
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Aug 24, 08:08 PM) |
| Yes, I have lots of pre-Christian roots for the Merovingians and far more ancient and historically correct than the stuff you list here. That stuff is very new and lots of it is 'smoke and mirrors' or hard to ascertain with any certainty. The BEES - Merovingians and Milesians (House of Mallia on Crete etc) include the Tartessian and Phocaean alliance which I may even mention in DD - which you are reading I think. In any event I have hordes of stuff additional to what is in there - it merely sets the stage for a whole new history of man's cultural evolution. |
The Prieure de Sion - Rennes le Chateau
Their main objective is the restoration of the Merovingian dynasty and bloodline. They were one of the most secretive hermetic orders. They were involved in political and esoteric conspiricies. They were founded to protect and aid the sangreal, the Holy Blood. The descendents of Jesus and Mary Magdalene were smuggled to France. Most of society became aware of them in the 1987 book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail."
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 07:54 AM
St. Bernard Clairvaux (Monk?) was the Merovingian founder of the Cistecian Order?
He created the Prieure de Sion - the silent elite - the kings of God.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 25, 2004, 08:09 AM
Sites like that are full of things to start checking on. There is far better information available outside these conspiracy authors and few of them are willing to do the real work.
Mountbatten is a key figure in this re-union of the Stuarts and Hesse-Battenbergs.
For example - the Cistercians are a continuation of the Iona Order of Druidic teaching which is Hibernian and includes Nostradamus who is a Jew just as Columbus was - Gnostic Cathar/Essene.
I have a book on the Jacobins in a series of books on Synarchy - and a Baird is the guardian of the Nova Scotia bank and died for Bonnie Prince Charlie.
I have broken this down in many other books as well. It is no easy task and there is always more to find as one goes into the Johannites and even further back than Melchizedek. It seems you are getting your teeth into this stuff.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 11:15 AM
| QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Aug 24, 04:58 PM) |
Cartesian doubt and Newtonian classical physics of the 17th century. Both changed reality and the way 17th century perceptions were formed of individuality and collectiveness. Cartesian philosophy = "I" centered culture dominated by egocentricity with emphasis on the "I" and "mine". · |
Rene Descartes – 1596-1650 AD
· French philosopher, mathematician and author out of the Baroque period.
· The body of man is nothing but a statue or a machine made of earth.
· Mechanical force of habit.
· I think, therefore I exist.
· I think, therefore I am.
· Invented analytic geometry.
· He proved to his own satisfaction that all manifestations of life could be explained on a purely mechanical basis, and that except in the case of man, organism and mechanism were interchangeable terms.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 11:33 AM
Jean Cocteau (1889-1963)
French artist and writer, who made his name widely known in poetry, fiction, film, ballet, painting, and opera. Jean Cocteau's works reflect the influence of surrealism, psychoanalysis, cubism, Catholic Religion; occasionally they were opium influenced. In his time Cocteau was a promoter of avant-garde styles and fashions. His friends included such prominent figures as Pablo Picasso, the composer Erik Satie, the writer Marcel Proust, and the Russian director Serge Diaghilev.
Jean Cocteau was born in Maisons-Lafitte into a wealthy Parisian family, which also was politically prominent.
He was also a close friend of Victor Hugo's great-grandson, Jean.
In 1915 Cocteau met Picasso and fell under his spell. "I admired his intelligence, and clung to everything he said, for he spoke little; I kept still so as not to miss a word. There were long silences and Varèse could not understand why we stared wordlessly at each other. In talking, Picasso used a visual syntax, and you could immediately see what he was saying. He liked formulas and summoned himself up in his statements as he summoned himself up and sculptured himself in objects that he immediately made tangible." (from Pablo Picasso by Pierre Cabanne, 1977).
In 1926 Coctau designated the set for the opera Pelléas et Mélisande by Claude Debussy. Cocteau also collaborated with Stravinsky on Oedipus-Rex.
Interesting links. Just connecting the dots.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 25, 2004, 12:07 PM
So you are seeing my suggestion about using archetypical or alchemical symbolism is indeed a well worn path. St. Germain was a great artist too and Voltaire never saw him age a dauy. Voltaire and Hugo and all these hermetic alchemists are indeed interesting.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 01:16 PM
I just picked up "Global Brain," by Howard Bloom, and am going to start leafing through his thoughts.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 02:00 PM
http://smithppo.tripod.com/psp/id22.html.
Preliminary Note: Pierre Plantard spent his whole life claiming to be the ‘eminence grise’ of the esoteric world, when in fact he was only a mere "odd-job man" with a Criminal Record – who had spent time in prison during the 1950s – and who had fabricated a ‘connection’ between himself and the bogus Gisors and Rennes-le-Château ‘mysteries’ until 1993, when the perquisition of his house by Judge Thierry Jean-Pierre was responsible for the permanent cessation of his activities relating to his imaginary ‘Priory of Sion’.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 25, 2004, 02:36 PM
The fact that he was persecuted after having spilled beans about them is evidence of what?
Robert the Bruce
Aug 25, 2004, 02:39 PM
You characterize the Gisors as BOGUS!!!
HMMM! Here is one of many evidences that they are very much part of the Continuum I call the 'octopus'.
http://www.casteland.com/puk/castle/hnorma...sors/gisors.htm
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 02:52 PM
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Aug 25, 02:36 PM) |
| The fact that he was persecuted after having spilled beans about them is evidence of what? |
Good point.
Trip like I do
Aug 25, 2004, 03:02 PM
If anybody else, besides RTB, who is reading this thread has any information already accumulated on any of the Grand Masters I've listed above, please, I encourage you to add to the thread. It's not for reason of laziness on my part, it would just be nice to get a broader perspective of just who these guys were. It doesn't have to be an encyclopedia on each person, any notes will do. Thank you in advance if anyone contributes to this compilation.
Trip like I do
Aug 26, 2004, 04:11 PM
RTB,
It's been pretty quite today.
I've read past Chapter 8 of Blooms book.
It's pretty good, however I think he might of used too many analogies. It's difficult to follow at times.
I just picked up the new Scientific American magazine, September 2004 (Beyond Einsein - 100 year aniversary of Relativity).
I'm going to be in cowtown this weekend and will probably explore it on the way there.
Keep busy while I'm gone. I want lots to read when I get back yonder.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 26, 2004, 06:25 PM
Dear T
There are so few people making any inputs - it becomes a seemingly two sided dialogue and little growth is happening.
Unknown
Aug 26, 2004, 06:38 PM
Agreed.
I've been poking my nose into the whole poetry soap opera.
At least there is some dialogue, albeit much more bickering than enlightened growth.
Hopefully there will be some action over the weekend here in the active topics forum.
I look forward to reading the discussions when I get back.
Maybe you should drop Shawn a line about finding ways to liven up this section of the forum.
Unknown
Aug 26, 2004, 06:42 PM
P.S. I do appreciate your input and I am always eager to read your new posts.
Some are a bit long winded, but hey if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
I do find your posts the most insightful on Mind-Brain.com. Please keep it up, rubber ducky.
Quack Quack for know.
Robert the Bruce
Aug 27, 2004, 12:02 AM
Look forward to your return - have a good time.
Dessimat0r
Sep 03, 2004, 07:16 PM
There is no 'conspiracy' at work here, all that needs to happen is for you to see a psychatrist.
Trip like I do
Sep 03, 2004, 07:35 PM
OOOHHHH! Sounds like a New challenge RTB. Are you ganna bite or let the comment dissapate? It's your theory, or a theory that you adhere by.
Robert the Bruce
Sep 03, 2004, 07:49 PM
There is no challenge trying to debate the uninformed who present no argument.
Trip like I do
Sep 03, 2004, 07:58 PM
That's what I thought as well. Oh well, maybe this counter challenge will evoke some thought from intitial challanger. What's his/her reality? I wonder if they need a psychiatrist. Spew forth your thoughts and let all who enter this site decide for themselves.
Robert the Bruce
Sep 03, 2004, 08:00 PM
Not likely. Most people who say there is no plan don't know how to make a plan or think for themself.
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