Is this just one person typing to themselves?

Unknown, as in "Who is responding to this forum topic?" Unknown!

a self-referential system behind it all

lol

Which unknown were you?

peel back the onion

Am I in a scitzophrenic nightmare?

peel back the onion for a big surprise

Peel back your own onions!

Expanding consciousness is of Ego.

Is not!

Is of ascertaining the nature of all, not oneself, although one does acquire that knowledge along the way.

I Am?

or

I Be (e)?

I am rhymer.
Am I an ominous person?
I could be "unknown", yet I am not, yet I am.

Hook, line and sinker, for I too, am a fisher of men.

What ever happened to the id and the superego? They are a part of expanding consciousness too, aren't they?

Enlightenment is the issue - not the propagandized BS from Machiavellian 'appeals to base human urges' or the Hobbesian pundits that insist man is basically a 'chest-beating' egotist or the C. S. Lewis religious backed 'best with red-cheeks'. Man was once egalitarian and far more nurturing and ENLIGHTENED. That was before he sold his mother and sister into soulful slavery and would not challenge himself to know his own soul anymore.

Yes, man has become materialistic and more aggressively wasteful and harmful to all around him under the leadership of these cretins - but it need not be the case. Those who know the BLESSINGS of Enlightenment know 'he who dies with the most toys' will have to come back to this hell and do it over and over again until he gets it right.

So are you a knower or the known?

Is not! I'll see you on the monkeybars in 5 minutes! Ha! Ha!

Does:

Knower = Ego = Objective?
Known = Perceptions = Subjective?
Knowing = Relativity = Enligthenment?

And that:

All = Expansion of consciousness!

The distance between two points (of view?) and the interval of time between two events are not absolute quantities, but have different values for differnet observers.

Observer vs. Observed?

Absolutely!

You will also like Bucky Fuller's The Observer of the Observed.

Check out The Shining Ones by Philip Gardiner - he seems open to working with me and onto the same things.

www.gardinerosborn.com

Well thought.

It is historical plus contemporary verbal vernacular that is the essence of pure knowledge, for language is the objective of which self-conscious thoughts are the subjective. Possibly, there are at present, no words that adequately objectively describe what our subjectively cognizant minds are observing of objective realities.

Even this present reality that you are imersed in in thought.

That is why I'm a visual artist and present my cognizant processes and discoveries in the medium of multi-dimensional painting (tacit vs. explicit).

Thoughts that have no existing descriptive vocabulary.

Concepts without words.

Quoting Unknown


QUANTUM PHYSICS IN NEUROSCIENCE AND PSYCHOLOGY: A NEUROPHYSICAL MODEL OF MIND/BRAIN INTERACTION


"The advantages for neuroscience and neuropsychology of utilizing the conceptual framework of contemporary physics, as opposed to that of classical physics, stem from five basic facts. First, terms such as "feeling," "knowing" and "effort," because they are intrinsically mentalistic and experiential, cannot be described exclusively in terms of material structure. Second, in order to explain the observable properties of large physical systems that depend sensitively upon the behaviors of their atomic constituents the founders of contemporary physical theory were led to introduce explicitly into the basic causal structure of physics certain important choices made by human beings about how they will act. Third, within this altered conceptual framework these choices are described in mentalistic (i.e., psychological) language. Fourth, terminology of precisely this kind is critically necessary for the design and execution of the experiments in which the data demonstrating the core phenomena of self-directed neuroplasticity are acquired and described. Fifth, the injection of psychologically described choices on the part of human agents into the causal theoretical structure can be achieved for experiments in neuroscience by applying the same mathematical rules that were developed to account for the structure of phenomena in the realm of atomic science.

The consequence of these facts is that twentieth century physics, in contrast to classical physics, provides a rationally coherent pragmatic framework in which the psychologically and neurophysiologically described aspects of the neuroscience experiments mentioned above are causally related to each other in mathematically specified ways. Thus contemporary physics allows the data from the rapidly emerging field of self-directed neuroplasticity to be described and understood in a way that is more rationally coherent, scientific, and useful than what is permitted by theories in which all causation is required to be fundamentally mechanical."

Basically, what I previously posted.

Our inadequate container schemas have boxed us in.

How we carve up our world depends on what's out there - and on the analogies we bring to bear.

For example, when I metaphorically speak of the electrons orbiting the atomic nucleus as being like planets orbitting the sun, I am implying that the geometry bears some resemblence.

The power of metaphors, poetic similes, Aesop's parables, analogies, and maps.

If you can predict simple human emotional activity, then you can control it and utilise it for your own powerful ends. If you could create a war at the peak of the emotional warring high, then you would have the advantage. Need to reduce the population of a nation, then depress the atmosphere and increase the suicide rate every 3.86 years. Of course, the real manipulation of populations is much more subtle.



From the greatest and most powerful Shining One of the sun to the stars, the myriad shining ones, which also have an effect on us.



Although astrology is seen as a crank belief, Michel Gauquelin, a French psychologist, placed the hypothesis that we are affected by the position of the planets at our time of birth firmly on the doorstep of science.



He showed that the position of the stars had some indication as to what line of work one may enter later in life. This was not related to the practice of astrology or the horoscopes in the daily newspapers, but a serious, scientific data analysis. The psychologist, Hans Eysenck said, 'How ever much it may go against the grain, I think we must admit that there is something here that requires explanation'. His results, however, only seemed to work within the members of the higher professionals, the same response not being achievable with unskilled workers.



The study of the stars goes back thousands of years. Some say 4,000 BC Sumeria was the first to do so. Others put this even earlier and say that ancient man was studying the stars 32,000 years ago. Their evidence is an engraved antler from Abri Blanchard, France, with a strange pattern of notches or calendrical phases of the moon.



With all the evidence on patterns, rhythms and electromagnetism that affect our bodies, it is no wonder that modern science has taken another look at the ancient art of astrology, which has been neglected due to the widespread misuse of generic horoscopes.



It may be that ancient man was using both his 'hidden powers' of cyclical understanding, and the tools of the earth around him.



As long ago as 3000BC, the Indian sage, Parasar, used Natal Astrology in his work. Megalithic structures have many astrological and Earth alignments. The Pyramids map the stars, obeying the Hermetic lore of 'as above so below'. Ziggurats, temples, floor paintings, carvings and forty-mile long lines etched into the ground all convey the ancient and global belief in astrological predictions.



The very earliest almanacs contained weather forecasts based upon astrological predictions. In the countries of Arabia, the position of the stars was consistent with the weather. The ancient priesthood would have appeared to be in the know all the time, and therefore would appear holy and godlike; it was little wonder that they became incorporated into the symbolic format and titles of the stars.



The Babylonians, and especially people in the Middle East, studied the stars mathematically and attempted, even as long as 5,000 years ago, to scientifically log the reactions and effects of the stars. They produced a calendar and perfect measures of time, essential for a people without clocks.



The patterns and rhythms of the stars, with their gravitational and radiation activity have enormous effects upon our universe. But could they also affect us individually and collectively? The cosmic radiation hitting and passing through our planet is millions of years old. It comes in cycles, as does the solar wind. The cycles increase and decrease, but nevertheless there is a pattern.



Our species has been on this planet, and life has been part of the vast universe long enough for there to be some marked and observable effect.



The Buddhist Wheel of Life reflects the understanding the ancients had of this cyclic life of ours. It depicts, amongst others, creatures of passion, stupidity and hatred, and shows how we endlessly repeat the same things, it also reveals that the ancient Buddhist, religious leaders, understood the cyclic nature of man and the universe. The Wheel culminates in the twelve links in the chain of causation on the search for truth - is this where man will also end up?



We should be on the look out for common threads; links between civilisations and time. The web that man has spread across the many thousands of years is complex and cluttered. Historians would have us believe that various human achievements sprang up spontaneously and simultaneously across the continents. Mathematically, this is in error.



There are too many coincidences, too many simultaneous eruptions of human culture and achievement, from the buildings that share a common purpose as solar and astral temples to the emergence of the ancient cross as a symbol.



The reasons for the links, which are not separate accidents, will become clear later on.



In 1957, Tom Lethbridge wrote a book called 'Gogmagog'. He claimed that Druidism and Brahmanism were linked and shared a common origin. We will show just how close this was to the truth. Lethbridge believed that their ancient religion was somehow related to and existed for the Earth Goddess, also associated with the Moon Goddess and often cross-linked. This is true in that She was one of the deities worshipped by the ancient priesthood, to whom the Brahmins and Druids were related. The Earth/Moon Goddess, or Mother, had many names, Gaia or Ge, Isis, Astarte and eventually culminating in the Virgin Mary or even Mary Magdalene.



There are many belief systems in the world, but they all come from one basic and undeniable core, invented and evolved separately by the Shining Ones. A secret ancient group who utilised the subtle cyclic energies and patterns of the globe against the masses, for their own personal power and for the greater good of a singular religious organisation. This religious organisation evolved its power base over vast periods of time. Individuals who recognised and understood the power of the mind and held the power for themselves in a growing group of religious leaders.

This could be a forward to my book Diverse Druids don't you think?

There are alot of parallelable material here and there.

Was there an influence in either direction?

Are you working collaberatively or just along similar lines and modes of thought?

Are the Red-Heads that you type of a simile of the red clay talked about by the Shining Ones, or the Shining Ones themselves, on the www.gardinerosborn.com site?

Here are some of what I think were and are some of the socially propagated norms that helped and help steer the mileau of the herd and accepted thought.

Earth-centred cosmos vs. sun-centered cosmos.
Flat earth vs. round earth.

Maybe the earth is a Euclidean flat disk and we are all just microbes on the petrie dish of life? I wonder what the shape of that dish would be like? Mathematical and geometrical I would think.

Relative consciousness vs. quantum consciousness.
Religion. Heaven vs Hell.
Marriage. Reproduction.
Materialism (as I type on My laptop, I don't think Socrates had a computer).
Time.
The fact that we even exist and have history.
Space - maybe it doesn't even exist, and it is all just one big conspiracy propagated by an extensive number of collaberators.

Maybe that you are one of these collaberators, at a certain level, and are conspiring and are a revisionist yorself, maybe even unknowingly.

You know, how you perpetually perpetrate your metaphysical theories about this and about that, AND ARE MAKING the present era of disbelief in the system a reality, where no one believes what the truth is any more.

Maybe that's the propagation thats being propagated.

After all, someone has to lead, someone has to know.

For the "better of mankind.'

etc. ect.

I had read a review of their book about two and a half years ago - I made a conscious effort not to let what they had to say influence my writing until now. Yes, we have traveled similar paths in terms of the sun and moon or earth based perspectives but I have not even read everything on their site and I have not read one of their books.

The collaboration might develop and he offerred that I might be in a documentary they are doing but he is busy on his way to Cyprus for a tomb opening of a king there on Wednesday. We shall see what transpires but I am developing a reputation as a serious factual researcher that will grow.

Rock 'n' Roll.
Do you know whom the tomb encloses?
What Epoch does it date from?
Is it of historical relevance.

Well, i would say that any such antiquital findings could prove to be very valuable indead.

It's probably some clandestine mission, that only a few are on the need to know list.
At least until they discover what their findings entail.

The superego strives for perfection. It may also be relentless and cruel in its insistence on perfection. It’s demands may resemble those of the id in their intensity, blindness, and irrationality. In a well-adjusted personality, the ego is the primary executor. It controls and governs both the id and the superego and mediates between their demands and the external world.

The ego ends up harassed by two harsh masters.

The superego is overseer of the mind and acts as judge and (executioner) punisher.
The superego arises out of a child's resolution with the Oedipus complex. The child identifies with the opposite sex parent and adopts the parents rule of behaviour.
The id lurkes below and is the source of all desire and instincts and supplies the energy for the unconscious. It contains repressed material, but not everything in the id is repressed. Between the id and superego is the reality manager, 'the ego.'

Art & Physics – Parallel Visions in Space, Time, and Light (1991) – Leonard Shlain

· The artist employs illusion and metaphor.
· The physicist uses number and equation.
· Revolutionary art and visionary physics are both investigations into the nature of reality.
· Metaphor – is a mental innovation arising out of a unique combination of feeling states and images. It allows a leap across a chasm from one thought to the next. They have several different levels of meaning simultaneously perceived and supply a plasticity to language without which communication would be less interesting. They’re cousins are similes, analogies, allegories, proverbs, and parables and each in their own way allow multiple simultaneous means of interpreting one single set of words.
· The most compelling combination of metaphor and image is art. The artist frequently uses visual metaphor to transport a viewer from a neutral affective state to complex feeling state, for example, awe.
· When art is successful in metaphorically bearing us across and above, there are no transitions. It is an all at once quantum jump. When this happens, we somehow know we are in the presence of great art.
· The artist often juxtaposes different features of reality and synthesizes them.
· Art illuminates, imitates, and interprets reality.
· Some artists create a language of symbols for things, which there are yet to be words.
· Radical innovators in art embody the preverbal stages of new concepts that will eventually change a civilization.
· Begins with the assimilation of unfamiliar images.
· Abstract ideas give rise to a descriptive language.
· The brains highest function is thinking.
· To affix a name to something is the beginning of control over it.
· Revolutionary art is the preverbal stage of a civilization first contending with a major change in its perception of the world.
· Visionary art alerts the other members that a conceptual shift is about to occur in the thought system used to perceive the world.
· Volume, space, mass, force, light, colour, tension, relationship, and density.
· Artists often choose signs, symbols, and allegories.
· Art offers perceptions of reality that erases linguistic and national boundaries.
· The inner eye of imagination and the external world of things.
· Objective reality is seen through the filter of each person’s temperament.
· Opinion – inner spectral vision unique to each individual of how the world works.
· Consensus – when a critical mass of people agrees on one viewpoint.
· Paradigm – when an entire civilization reaches a consensus about how the world works (Priori Postulates). 2 + 2 will always equal 4, all right angles are equal.
· Euclidean space and Aristotelian time have formed a paradigm that has been remarkably enduring.
· When the time comes to change a paradigm the artist is most likely to be in the forefront.
· Subjectivity is the creative wellspring of all art.
· Begin with wonder and end in wisdom.
· Art generally anticipates scientific revisions of reality.

Stephen Pinker:

Thesis is that the puzzle of Mind has been downgraded from mysteries to mere problems. We may not know the solutions but we know where to look.

From: Laurent
Message 1 in Discussion

Light, vision and human consciousness


Photons bring us the past. Information from the past is locked
into photons. We can even look at what the universe was billions
of years ago. Our capacity to see is closely related to
consciousness and consciousness is closely related to light (or
to the information contained within it).

What role does light (EMR) plays in determining Schrodinger's cat
state (dead or alive)? Is it light itself the only important factor
closing the loop, or, is it the observer's conscious acknowledgement
which causes the final determination of the cat's fate? In other
words, is the wave packet collapse a function defined by the
structures of matter, a result from the interactions and relationships
of its parts, independent from human observers, or, is state vector
reduction a function of mind?

The answer is 'yes' to both questions, there is no contradiction, it
is the function of self-observation and organization intrinsic to any
self-organized system. Take neutrons for example, how can a neutron
maintain its geometrical configuration during millions of years
without flying apart? How does syntropy come about?

The medium in which any given self-organized system is developing is
full of information which the system will use to maintain itself.
Matter is not different, it can be defined as a self-organized system,
and the medium in which it develops is full of information in the form
of EMR. Any given neutron will need to extract from hyperspace only
that information which it needs to support its structure. The fact
that this information comes from hyperspace allows it to be a
non-local function which has been defined by Bohm's quantum potential
as a holistic awareness function of matter, as he explained EPR type
phenomena.

Now, after billions of years, this information exchange between matter
and the environment in which it evolves has produced ever more complex
(information engenders information) self-organized systems, like human
beings, for example, who have evolved to take full advantage of these
holistic awareness function of Nature, which is what enables them to
think. So thought is the same holistic awareness function with which
matter started organizing itself billions of years ago.

Is this proof, however, that there exists in Nature some syntropic
force, an energy analogous to information which will try at any
opportunity to beat entropy, constantly creating order out of chaos?

Evolution is a very slow ratchet-like motion, where nature selects and
locks-in any advantageous randomly occurring changes. These are
property based selections where the favored properties are usually the
ones which will lead to increased thermal efficiency, and that is
going against entropy already.

More important than backaction I think would be the ability of a given
system to perceive itself all at once, that's when quantum
communication and computation come into play. Quantum consciousness
came later, with brains.

Awareness is a secondary function of matter which enabled Nature to
evolve. Consciousness, thanks to this function, is what enables us to
think and exist in 4D, in a continuum unbounded from causality (or
linear time). And that makes Bohm correct when he says state vector
reduction occurs thanks to this 'wholeness in space' function of
matter, consciousness is 'wholeness in time'.

There is a spherical, inwardly collapsing, standing wave caused by our
brains, but why call it God, or even Cosmic Consciousness? Why not
just call it for what it is - human consciousness?

The Universe exists because of active information contained in all
kinds of interacting waves, and if it wasn't for wave superposition,
there would be no Universe. Thanks to the parallel and non-linear
information processing mechanisms inherent to waves there can be
information growth.

Human consciousness is the ultimate product of a natural, energy
balancing mechanism, determined and regulated by the laws of
thermodynamics. Each object's energetic requirements has to be
measured before entering any given spacetime metric, before going
from its subtle quantum matter state, or wave state, to its objective
material state, or particle state. These information requirements are
met through wave interactions, and the mechanisms governing wave
superposition as described by the science of wave harmonics. Timothy
Boyer termed this energy balancing radiation 'equilibrium spectrum',
others call it Unruh-Davies radiation.

EMR was and still is the main means of information propagation and
natural communication between spacially separated objects, and within
objects. Already existing information leads to the creation of more
information. Information can only exist in a material form. Biological
organisms evolved to use light to their benefit very slowly. As we
already know, it took them billions of years (pre-Cambrian to
Cambrian) just to develop eyesight.

Brains are these little bio-mechanical tools that emerged with
evolution for the only purpose of enabling us to interpret and
interface with reality. Since what happens is really governed by the
laws of thermodynamics, as spacetime tends towards equilibrium,
through a process of natural selection, matter improved its ability
to observe and perceive the environment and evolved into brains
that could take advantage of the properties of spacetime. Brains
exists only because there is spacetime.

Nature would still be able to exist and observe itself even without
the human observer, it would just be a more primitive process. Our
brains are Nature's best developed self-observational tool.

Experience is fundamental to existence, but it is not reality
(Berkeley was wrong). Reality is the process through which Nature is
constantly becoming. Our consciousness (as it manifests in our human
existence) is an extension of the same holistic awareness function
that self-organized matter always utilized to observe itself, therefore
human consciousness is still - Nature observing itself.

As Roger Penrose explained quasicrystal development in his book "The
Emperor's New Mind" (p. 564), he writes that it appears as if the
whole crystal is 'observing' itself (each present atom configuration
pattern is embedded into its pilot-wave) and choosing from qualia,
using some holistic awareness mechanism by which they can compare
present qualia to past qualia and all the possible rock-like outcomes,
all at once, and which are limited by the system's tendencies or
potentialities, until the right atom configurations are found while
constructing their "randomly forbidden, very complex, icosahedral
symmetries".

Experience plays an important role in the correct development of the
crystals (as well as in all self-organized systems). The crystals
accomplish their self-observation by following information contained
in their pilot-wave (Bohm-de Broglie), which contains past (and even
future) information about the crystal, as a whole. Proto-qualia for a
quasicrystal would be how all the possible atom configurations would
'feel like' as they remain in superposition until a good one is selected,
and only then could the collapse of the wave packet finally occur.

From the moment the first self-organizing systems appeared in Nature
to the moment the first human brain appeared it's being a few billion
years, but in both occasions the objective has been the same; to
experience existence. Penrose's quasicrystals don't have a brain, but
they follow their state wave function as the measure by which they
must exist, and if by any reason they were to stop following their
state wave function as they add new atoms to their body, they would
end up becoming a totally different type of material. The objective
state a human being follows (or should I say - the measure by which
a human being exists) is defined by its brain state wave function.

----------------------------------------------

Superradiance within the brain I think is a very promising concept
when trying to understand consciousness.


This is from Hameroff's website:

" Another candidate for the Cambrian emergence of Orch OR
consciousness involves the evolution of visual photoreceptors.
Amoeba respond to light by diffuse sol-gel alteration of their actin
cytoskeleton (Cronly-Dillon and Gregory, 1991). Euglena and other
single cell organisms have localized "eye spots" e.g. regions at the
root of the microtubule-based flagellum. Cytoplasm may focus
incident light toward the eye spots and pigment material shields
certain angles to provide directional light detection (e.g. Insinna,
this volume). Euglena swim either toward or away from light by
flagellar motion. Having no neurons or synapses, the single cell
euglena's photic response (sensory, perceptive and motor
components) depend on MT-cytoskeletal structures.

Mammalian cells including our own can respond to light.
Albrecht-Buehler (e.g. 1994) showed that single fibroblast cells
move toward red/infra-red light by utilizing their MT-based centrioles
for directional detection and guidance ("cellular vision"); he also
points out that centrioles are ideally designed photodetectors. "


" Jibu et al (1994; 1996) have predicted that cellular vision depends
on a quantum state of ordered water in MT inner cores.

They postulate a nonlinear quantum optical effect termed
"superradiance" conveying evanescent photons by a process of
"self-induced transparency" (the optical analogue of
superconductivity).

Hagan (1995) has observed that cellular vision provided an
evolutionary advantage for single cell organisms with cilia,
centrioles or flagella capable of quantum coherence.

In simple multicellular organisms, eyes and visual systems began
with groups of differentiated light-sensitive ciliated cells which
formed primitive "eye cups" (up to 100 photoreceptor cells) in many
phyla including flatworms, annelid worms, molluscs, crustacea,
echinoderms and chordates (our original evolutionary branch
Cronly-Dillon and Gregory, 1991). The retinas in our eyes today
include over 108 rod and cone photoreceptors each comprised of an
inner and outer segment connected by a ciliated stalk. As each
cilium is comprised of about 300,000 tubulins, our retinas contain
about 3 x 1013 tubulins per eye. (Retinal rods, cones and glia are
interconnected by gap junctions - Leibovic, 1990.) Conventional
vision science assumes the cilium is purely structural, but the
centriole/cilium/flagella MT structure which Albrecht-Buehler has
analyzed as an ideal directional photoreceptor may detect or guide
photons in eye spots of single cells, primitive eye cups in early
multicellular organisms, and rods and cones in our retinas. Quantum
coherence leading to consciousness could have emerged in sheets of
gap junction-connected ciliated cells in eye cups of early Cambrian
worms. "


http://cyberdyno1.tripod.com/