i am off valium two years have suicidal thoughts all my waking hours could you tell me what antidressant might suit i am desperate jennifer robinson robbosgirl@aol.com

Hello jennifer,

I'm sorry to hear about your depressed thoughts, but glad that you have managed to get off vallium!

When it comes to the choice of anti-depressant, it is not at all easy. We each respond differently to most of them, so it's a bit hit and miss. I started off on Gamanil but found that didn't suit me as far as side effects went. I subsequently tried about 12 others and ended up on Effexor. But, as I say, you will need to start with whatever your doctor prescribes and keep him'her informed about how you feel in re-acting with it.

We all seem to have different characteristics of chemical makeup [or at least fall into one or another of a set of groups], so it is a good idea to treat the issue as a bit of an experiment.

I read up as much as I could on each tablet type I took [there are about 6 types of action] using the web and the literature, so I had an idea of what I might expect.
One needs to be patient and not expect too much too soon.
Persistence will pay off in the long run, and just take one day at a time.
Ignore those who tell you to pull yourself together - [if only one could]. Peopel don't know what it's like unless they've gone through it. And I repeat, don't give up - if the meds don't work after 3 or 4 weeks [or earlier if side-effects are troublesome] get back to the quack!!!!!

Post again if you want any more info.
I may move this topic and reply to the personal help board shortly; it is more appropriate there.
All the best, Bill.

Know how you feel. check this paper for all antidepressant options:

www.biopsychiatry.com

I know that salvia divinorum fixes depression fast. It does have brief side effects so only use it when at home.

Maybe fixes your depression, whatever category that is, of the multitude. Your comment is far too simplistic, worthless and bad advice especially:

Clinical depression is a SERIOUS condition that requires a clinical assessment and professional treatment.

I agree that Salvia Divinorum shouldn't be used to treat depression. It may have some positive effects when trying for dissolution of Ego, or if you'd like to be an inanimate object for a while, but how does that help depression?

A depressive person on Salvia is more likely to get a traumatic badtrip.................

I suggest you to try Tianeptine wich seems the best anti-depressant to me. But you should still get a look at biopsychiatry.com

May I ask which doctor you see to prescribe an antidepressant on your say? In the UK its unlikely you'd be heard. But I hope you find the right one!

Hey Hey, dark and trojan, may I suggest that you guys comment on things you know something about? I happen to know salvia fixes depression. It works not only for me but for many other people who have tried it for that. If you are not depressed it will not seem to have much effect. It is not neccessary to have a trip to experience the antidepressive benefit. Just a small dose will do it but it must be enough. For me, an amount of less than 1/10 gram of plain leaf does the job. Some people might need more and some might only need a hit or two. It works fast and lasts for from a day to possible a week or more. The effects will be seen within an hour or so. Salvia can produce brief hallucinations if taken to excess so don't use it just before you have to be at work or go driving. One other side effect is that it will cause the person to have a lot more vivid dreams.

I'm not surprised to see the resistance. You want to know the group that resists using salvia the most? Depressed people, that's who. Over 90% will not even try it. They tell you they don't "think" it will work therefore they won't try it. Or they ask their doctor and he says don't do it. The medical profession is extremely conservative towards any novel treatments and towards herbs in particular.

It actually makes sense. Smoking Salvia to me means smoking a powerful extract and actually feel something of it... I've never tried smoking dried leaves.

The extract works as well but it's harder to get the right dose without taking too much. Salvia is not a euphoriant and does little or nothing if the person is just bored or wants to get high. It does work like a miracle on genuine depression.

How do you know if you are depressed? There are a variety of symptoms. The person may have no energy and no interest in doing anything. Things that used to be enjoyable no longer interest them. They may feel worthless and feel as though life is a bore. Small problems may look insurmountable. This does not cover all possible symptoms of depression but hits some of the high spots. Sadness over an unhappy event does not equal depression though depression can make small things look large. Severe depression can lead to suicidal thoughts and make the person unable to work or function. It can interfere with sleep.

Sorry you feel I have no right to speak about such things as salvia and depression. However altering your body chemistry in this way to cope with depression is a little extreme in my opinion. But I guess some people get benefit from it. If that doesnt work, try cocaine, i hear that cheers most people up...

Hello

I´m fairly new here. I am very perplexed by the responses on this thread.
At the risk of offering sensible advice , please seek professional help.

trojan_libido wrote:

"Sorry you feel I have no right to speak about such things as salvia and depression."

I never said that. I suggested people talk about things they know something about.

"However altering your body chemistry in this way to cope with depression is a little extreme in my opinion."

Extreme in what way? Depression is a condition that robs life of enjoyment and makes it not worth living. Taking an herb in that situation is hardly extreme if it works.

"But I guess some people get benefit from it."

Correct.

"If that doesnt work, try cocaine, i hear that cheers most people up..."

Now that is truely idiotic. Cocaine has many terrible side effects and can kill. It also does nothing to help depression.

AdonisBlue wrote:

"Hello

I´m fairly new here. I am very perplexed by the responses on this thread.
At the risk of offering sensible advice , please seek professional help."

That is not bad advice however the person indicated they had been using a prescription drug for years without benefit. This indicates they tried the professional help and it didn't help. Salvia can fix it right away and is much cheaper. Do some reading before using salvia so you know what to expect. With proper use, it has no side effects and works wonderfully.

Depression has many root causes, why should anyone resign to controlling it through chemicals at all? Shouldn't exercise, diet and lifestyle changes be considered, as well as a different kind of prescribed medication, before resorting to a disassociative?

If you can't detect sarcasm from what I posted about coke, then I'm afraid I'm not the idiot. Anyway, arguments by forum are silly. Anyone else that reads my "advice" please dont take it seriously. Sorry!

tro, all posts are sarcastic. No offense taken at anything.

However, I never spoke against diet or excercise which obviously everyone needs to improve. It's hard to stay on the good regimine but it's worth it.

My advice stands on the use of salvia divinorum. Read up on it and use it at home in a careful manner. It's not an extracted chemical, it's an herb. Maybe with the diet and excercise the person will no longer need it but antidepressants are not optional for some folks. I believe it's in many cases physical in that there is a chemical imbalance in the brain which might be due to a physical problem. We treat other physical problems, why not depression? And if that is given then why not a natural herb that has been around a long time?

Do you have any studies or anything that indicate smoking dried Salvia leaves to cure depression?

Professor Andrew Stoll's book The Omega-3 Connection is a fascinating read. I now take molecularly distilled fish oil capsules religiously and it definitely keeps my depression at bay. I am surprised at how content and elevated my mood is with the capsules. After reading the book, I target taking 4 grams of EPA a day. I use the highest concentrated capsules offered at Trader Joes. Seems they are not that expensive compared to other sources.

I've stopped taking them ocassionally and the depression comes right back but after taking them again for a couple days I have been pleasantly surprised at how good I feel. I also find that my memory and general thinking abilities work better though I have other neutraceuticals in my stack too.

4 grams of EPA??? That seems like alot~ I take the standard Nature Made fish oil, and it only contains 432mg EPA and 288mg DHA and that is taking two of the soft gels a serving. I would love to know what brand you are buying if you are able to get 4 grams a day...Even with Life Extensions Super Omega-3 recomending 2 capsuls twice a day you are only getting 1.4g of EPA...

That's right, I take ten capsules a day of Trader Joe's highest concentration molecularly distilled fish oil caps, each of which has 400 mg. of the EPA and about 250 of the DHA. It works for me and I don't smell fishy. That was what was found to be an effective dose by Stoll in his clinical trials.

hmm..10 a day. Maybe I will try to incorporate that into my regiment for a while see how it works (so long as I can afford to )

You know nothing of what I know. But how could you, you do not know who I am or what my qualifications are? A bit like your knowledge of the science/medicine of the matters you comment upon.

Can you please give the scientific references that show proof of your comments. Or else refrain from unsubstantiated anecdotes that serve no useful purpose here.

What exactly entails professional treatment? doping people on SSRIs?

Treatments based on the outcomes of ramdomized trials.

Define your use if the word "doping" in the context of the discussed issue, as I find it a meaningless term in the way you have used it.

I must admit I don't have extensive knowledge of SSRIs but I have heard reports of emotional blunting. This may deter suicidal tendencies but such a state seems hardly worth living for.

My own experience of SSRI's is no increase in emotional blunting.

The same is true for tablets of each ilk (MAOI etc.).

I have been taking AD's for 16 years.
Thank God for AD's.

[that is an expression of gratitude rather than of Faith].

don't you wonder what your personality is like unmedicated?

This is So much more complicated. What about age, sex, health, dosage, combination with other medication, other psychology, etc, etc? And rhymer obviously understands pros and cons.

purerealm,

you ask "don't you wonder what your personality is like unmedicated?"

I know exactly what my personality is like unmedicated.
And, it didn't change when I started taking medication.

You do not seem to realise that there are many aspects to depression.

For me, many body systems, all controlled by the brain, were depressed but this did not affect my personality at all (not even my mood)!

Hey Hey, my words in that post were probably unecessarily blunt and confrontational. I got very annoyed because I know it works and people who have not tried it tell me it can't possibly work. You asked for some documentation and I'm pretty sure I've given it before but here is what I found with a 2 second google search using the terms "salvia divinorum depression"

http://www.maps.org/news-letters/v13n1/13118han.html

Karl R. Hanes, Ph.D. (khanes@rocketmail.com)

In December, 1997, following discussions some months earlier concerning the possible healing potential of various plant substances in psychiatric conditions, a treatment-resistant depressed patient (Ms. G) under the care of the author reported the serendipitous management of her symptoms of depression with use of Salvia divinorum obtained via a mail-order herbal supplier (Hanes, 2001). Despite initial caution, the author has treated several patients with refractory (or treatment-resistant) depression since that time, adapting to varying circumstances and requirements the broad protocol followed by Ms. G in the self-management of her symptoms of depression, namely oral dose of 2-3 Salvia divinorum leaves (1/2 to 3/4 of a gram of leaf material) three times per week. Prior to the prohibition of Salvia divinorum in Australia in June 2002, I had introduced the herb to six additional patients, five of whom have provided valuable feedback regarding their use. I have also had contact with over 20 individuals from around the world who report beneficial effects of this herb in their lives, including relief from depressive symptoms.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:2DxTY...s&ct=clnk&cd=18

Robin Marushia, Dr. Arturo Gomez-Pompa, TA Nisao Ogata

In one case report, a patient was found to have found relief from symptoms of chronic depression after years of conventional treatment. The patient discovered Salvia divinorum independently (on the internet), but found that weekly, low dosage treatment helped her find a “psychospiritual” awakening which alleviated her depression (Hanes 2001). Rovinsky also found that acetone-soluble compounds from Salvia divinorum inhibited the growth of rod-shaped bacteria and decreased the duration of smooth muscle contraction in mice (1998). These findings suggest that Salvia divinorum may have several pharmacological applications that should be further researched.

The TWO(!) patients in cases given are not a clinical trial and the "several" and then 20 individuals referred to in the first article are purely anecdotal. Thus the evidence you have provided is meaningless. If you could provide truly scientific evidence for your assertions I would be pleased to discuss it further. Compare this to the thousands of refereed papers and articles on the efficacy of the various classes of antidepressants. Although you might criticize the involvement of pharmaceutical companies in the very lucrative production of antidepressants, although I think this is often misguided, surely when considering the prescribers of these drugs, the motives must surely be based on compassion and qualified belief in their efficacy. And there is a wealth of professional literature on the side-effects. No-one is saying they are perfect. We are in a state of flux with most pharmaceuticals, but research and development will hopefully provide improved and new chemical configurations and/or gene therapies to treat more precisely these (depression) biochemical irregularities.

Hey Hey, you are now nitpicking and I am not going to argue with you over the definition of proof. You can say it's unproven until the cows come home but it still works.

"Thus the evidence you have provided is meaningless."

Not so. I will agree it's not totally proven and this would not be enough evidence to convince the FDA, for example, that it was safe and effective. However, to say it's meaningless is just being mean spirited and showing you are angry with me. I'm sorry if I made you angry but regardless of that, the stuff does work. I will keep on saying so as long as I'm able. You totally discount the research of doctors and PHD's but you elevate your own opinion as though it meant something more than what they found. You haven't even tried it. I will not discuss it with you further unless you provide some proof of your statements. Saying "yes it is, no it isn't" is unproductive.