This is a poem about the Iraq conflict. As you can see, i have vented my oppinions here, and I would be greatful to hear your oppinions on it.
Not In My Name
Free the world from terrorists
- your cure is to terrorize
Freedom of speech you say
- but put blinders on our eyes
Free them from the tyrrant
- so you can take control
"Heil!" to the new leader
- I'm sure you'll fill the role
You gave them all Democracy
- but did they have a choice?
You "knew" that's what they wanted
- but never heared one voice
It was "For the good of Man"
- but it was only for yourself
An evil greed fuelled plot
- to bring your country wealth
The people are content at home
- whilst Iraqi blood does boil
Just strangers in their country
- You come and steal their oil
We see the shallow excuse
- the reasons for the war
Just like we see you're callouss
don't know what your heart's for
Im appalled that you are leaders
- You may have set them "free"
But your motives were apparent
for anyone to see.
So declare your wars
and play your game
Say what you want
but not in my name.
Full Version: Some oppinions on my Political Poem Please..
Nor in my name, Meklo, nor in mine.
I agree with you completely. Please have a look at my sonnets, should you have an idle moment; I deal with this same subject rather often in them, much to the consternation of a few.
Welcome among us, Meklo; welcome to Mind-Brain in general, and to our poetry board in particular. I am Poet in Residence here, and I am glad to welcome you and to have you with us. Thank you for joining us, and for coming to be among us here.
I first welcomed you in a reply to a poem of my wife, Silke, which you will find there. She is terribly ill with cancer at the moment, and we are having a hard time. I am so proud of her that she writes and posts her poetry, written as is it in her third language, accompanied as it is by her own beautiful images, which she creates. I am so proud of her, especially in light of what she has suffered in her life. She is a survivor of the most unspeakable tortures imaginable, but remains a beautiful and gifted and inspiring young woman of twenty-four, the brightest and the best I've ever known.
I am in unbreakable solidarity with you, my fellow poet, always.
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
I agree with you completely. Please have a look at my sonnets, should you have an idle moment; I deal with this same subject rather often in them, much to the consternation of a few.
Welcome among us, Meklo; welcome to Mind-Brain in general, and to our poetry board in particular. I am Poet in Residence here, and I am glad to welcome you and to have you with us. Thank you for joining us, and for coming to be among us here.
I first welcomed you in a reply to a poem of my wife, Silke, which you will find there. She is terribly ill with cancer at the moment, and we are having a hard time. I am so proud of her that she writes and posts her poetry, written as is it in her third language, accompanied as it is by her own beautiful images, which she creates. I am so proud of her, especially in light of what she has suffered in her life. She is a survivor of the most unspeakable tortures imaginable, but remains a beautiful and gifted and inspiring young woman of twenty-four, the brightest and the best I've ever known.
I am in unbreakable solidarity with you, my fellow poet, always.
AD ASTRA PER ASPERA
Meklo,I agree with you.
Good poem.Well written.
Good poem.Well written.
Dare I perceive your accusations to be at the throat of the US and England? As for the U.S. Our oil prices have sky-rocketed attesting to the fact that we have not stolen any oil, in fact the re-vitalization of that country is based on the profit received by that country and for that country instead of one Iraqi Hitler that was quite the role model while he tethered his own innocent citizens to rooftops as shields. To the contrary, we are much deeper in debt because of our stand on this. We have spent well over 100 billion dollars to facilitate an Iraq governed by its own people and to extricate an evil force. This Sadam that you suggest is a victim offered monetary rewards for the heads of innocent American men, woman, and children and celebrated the attack skillfully administered by Osama Bin Laden. I suppose we should live in fear and become a collective doormat while Sadam did the very thing that you accuse the allies of doing? Sadam occupied, TOOK, controlled, oppressed, STOLE from, and enslaved an entire nation in 1990 (Kuwait). In 1991, we liberated it and never asked for one cent back. Throughout history we have come to the aid of many nations (we gave France back twice) and have given trillions of dollars away never enforcing repayment (paid willingly by the citizens of our great nation). Calling it goodwill. Never asking for financial support for our own country from other nations, just a thank you. Our ideals are the same as yours. We want to live free and eradicate terror and oppression from our midst. However, having said that, to secure peace is to prepare for war, like it or not. Life as a doormat is not the answer. Pride has a price as hefty as freedom. I have served around the globe in the United States Marine Corps in defense of people like you without taking a second glance. I am also descended from Wales. My last name is Reese (taken from Reisch). We came here in the 1700's and my G/G/G/G/G/G fought for our independence from the oppressing forces of England under Lord Cornwallis' command at the Battle of King's Mountain. I suppose we should have been a doormat then, too? Perhaps we should still be England II.
As a poem I appreciated it for what it is, art. It's content was mature, well-crafted, and it flowed. The imagery was as clear as the message. Your are a very gifted writer. However, I simply do not subscribe to the ideology or accusations contained in the message. If you would be so kind as to offer factual information to support your accusation I would be obliged to rethink my position. As a poet I, like my friend +Goofball, am in solidarity with you.
It's okay to be friends and not agree with everything. Take +Goofball for example, we don't always agree with each other or our opinions but stand in unbreakable solidarity as friends and poets and I owe much of my publishing success and inspiration to my old friend.
Warm regards to you as well. Your opinion is accepted and appreciated but not inline with mine. Again, I say to you. This does not mean we can't be friends. To the contrary it should mean that we are.
Your poetic friend,
Kevin
As a poem I appreciated it for what it is, art. It's content was mature, well-crafted, and it flowed. The imagery was as clear as the message. Your are a very gifted writer. However, I simply do not subscribe to the ideology or accusations contained in the message. If you would be so kind as to offer factual information to support your accusation I would be obliged to rethink my position. As a poet I, like my friend +Goofball, am in solidarity with you.
It's okay to be friends and not agree with everything. Take +Goofball for example, we don't always agree with each other or our opinions but stand in unbreakable solidarity as friends and poets and I owe much of my publishing success and inspiration to my old friend.
Warm regards to you as well. Your opinion is accepted and appreciated but not inline with mine. Again, I say to you. This does not mean we can't be friends. To the contrary it should mean that we are.
Your poetic friend,
Kevin
I'm glad we live in a part of the world where one can say what they want. I have always been fond of the line that goes, "while I may not agree with you, I'll die to support your right to speak". Or something like that. I would just ask that you respond to Kevin's request for some facts.
I enjoy reading everyone's poems and I mean no disrepect. I am just proud of my country, but also willing to listen to any evidence of our abuses. I know my country is not perfect, but I still love her.
I enjoy reading everyone's poems and I mean no disrepect. I am just proud of my country, but also willing to listen to any evidence of our abuses. I know my country is not perfect, but I still love her.
Ok, I think the poem wasn't quite percieved as I expected it would be. I will try and explain the best I can my oppinions I have embedded here.
The first verse is referring to the Abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Though we may have the freedom of speech, things like this are hidden from us.
The next few verses are a matter of oppinion. I am of the oppinion that the Iraq conflict had a side task of having more controll on their oil - however in reality this plan has backfired drastically. I'm sure we wouldnt have gone to war if we'd have known that these increases in terrorist attacks and indeed fuel prices would have happened. The only other thing I refer to here, are the leaders not listening to their countries (and the Iraqi) peoples oppinions before they acted. Over half the UK were against the Iraq war, and Im sure it was a fairly large number in the US too.
The word "steal" was probably misplaced there, but it was what had best effect.
It is just my oppinion, and it is probably very wrong, but that's all I can say.
The first verse is referring to the Abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Though we may have the freedom of speech, things like this are hidden from us.
The next few verses are a matter of oppinion. I am of the oppinion that the Iraq conflict had a side task of having more controll on their oil - however in reality this plan has backfired drastically. I'm sure we wouldnt have gone to war if we'd have known that these increases in terrorist attacks and indeed fuel prices would have happened. The only other thing I refer to here, are the leaders not listening to their countries (and the Iraqi) peoples oppinions before they acted. Over half the UK were against the Iraq war, and Im sure it was a fairly large number in the US too.
The word "steal" was probably misplaced there, but it was what had best effect.
It is just my oppinion, and it is probably very wrong, but that's all I can say.
Meklo,
I sincerely appreciate your ability to step back and see a little deeper into things. This typically means that you are receptive to other peoples opinions and are not closed off to reasoning. To that end, I thank you. On the matter of prisoners. Our own journalists, news reports, etc. have done a great job spreading anti-war propaganda. It's incredible to me how a few lame pictures of naked prisoners on leashes (not that I'm condoning it - war can bring out the worst in anybody) and it's ALL OVER the damn news! Forget the idea that they were being housed and fed. Forget that they were extremists, terrorists, Saddam loyalist militia, and government officials. Then Nick Berg (an innocent civilian trying to rebuild Iraq - not a government official, a militia member, soldier, terrorist, or an extremist - just an ordinary American civilian) gets beheaded on video by Saddam loyalist that held him as a prisoner of war (same as we are holding theirs and taking pictures of them) and that story barely makes the news for about a day and barely makes the front page. It just makes me sick. We took pictures and everyone's talking about it. They behead a poor guy on video and everyone forgets about it because it did not receive the same air time as the goddamn pictures did. How sickening is that? Journalists have no business in warfare, in my opinion. So, we have enemies in our own backyard. You have to understand that this is a nation (Iraq) found in contempt of our liberty, our way of life. They are followers of a present day Hitler guilty of genocide, oppression, and crimes against humanity. Again, he tethered women and children to rooftops as human shields. I don't know how old you are but I was in the Marines during Desert Shield in 1990 and Desert Storm in 1991. I remember well what he did to his civilians and worse, what he did to his own soldiers...starved them. They gave up by the hundreds...thousands. All they wanted was to eat for God's sake. We treated them incredibly humanely. This last conflict saw more of the same. We have uncovered mass graves of what Saddam considered unpure races of people (sounds like Hitler and Jews). He killed anyone with a different opinion than him. He stole an entire nation and enslaved and oppressed them. He issued a bounty...a cash reward, on the head of ANY American (man, WOMAN, or CHILD - military or CIVILIAN). He celebrated the death of nearly 3,000 American civilians in the name of a Jihad and allied with Osama Bin Laden. This attack was worse than that of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor at least was an attack on military troops, ships, and installations in Hawaii. All this after we helped and armed him against a country trying to oppress his country in the 1980's. That was Iran and the Ayatollah Kohmeine, and hostage crisis that started with Jimmy Carters administration and ended with Reagan's administration. We were nothing but friendly with them until they invaded and took over Kuwait. They were there to steal everything, including oil, fromKuwait. Worse than what you accuse American of doing. They stole the oil for Saddam and his buddies in Tikrit. Of all the oil in Iraq and Kuwait, Iraqi commoners NEVER saw a dime. In fact, it got so bad they began starving to death while Saddam and his cohorts increased wealth, built giant palaces, and built and painted giant shrines, sculptures, paintings of guess who? Yep, Saddam Hussein. As far as support, I can't vouch for England or the other allied countries, (France never knows what the Hell it want's - They tend to sit and think about it until they are overrun by their enemies then we liberate them - It's happened twice - we've liberated them and they still hate us - a thank you would have sufficed - but that's okay, I'm enjoying my "Freedom Fries" - and by the way you can have your statue in New York back - I can make my own.) but America had a huge outpour of support for this conflict. At one time the approval rate of 270 Americans topped 73% and still shows the majority of Americans in support of our efforts in Iraq. We have lost an average of 3 people per day in Iraq. We lost an average of 15 people per day in Vietnam, 50 people per day in Korea, 295 people per day in WWII, 114 per day in WWI, and 570 per day in our Civil War. For a cause such as this, 3 per day is a small sacrifice coming from a former Marine's perspective considering our history of sacrifice. I hope I shed some light on this for you. Please notice that I have included myriad facts in my reply. I didn't pull this info out of a hat. I wish this whole thing wasn't happening as do most of us. But, we didn't as for this, either.
Best regards,
Kevin
I sincerely appreciate your ability to step back and see a little deeper into things. This typically means that you are receptive to other peoples opinions and are not closed off to reasoning. To that end, I thank you. On the matter of prisoners. Our own journalists, news reports, etc. have done a great job spreading anti-war propaganda. It's incredible to me how a few lame pictures of naked prisoners on leashes (not that I'm condoning it - war can bring out the worst in anybody) and it's ALL OVER the damn news! Forget the idea that they were being housed and fed. Forget that they were extremists, terrorists, Saddam loyalist militia, and government officials. Then Nick Berg (an innocent civilian trying to rebuild Iraq - not a government official, a militia member, soldier, terrorist, or an extremist - just an ordinary American civilian) gets beheaded on video by Saddam loyalist that held him as a prisoner of war (same as we are holding theirs and taking pictures of them) and that story barely makes the news for about a day and barely makes the front page. It just makes me sick. We took pictures and everyone's talking about it. They behead a poor guy on video and everyone forgets about it because it did not receive the same air time as the goddamn pictures did. How sickening is that? Journalists have no business in warfare, in my opinion. So, we have enemies in our own backyard. You have to understand that this is a nation (Iraq) found in contempt of our liberty, our way of life. They are followers of a present day Hitler guilty of genocide, oppression, and crimes against humanity. Again, he tethered women and children to rooftops as human shields. I don't know how old you are but I was in the Marines during Desert Shield in 1990 and Desert Storm in 1991. I remember well what he did to his civilians and worse, what he did to his own soldiers...starved them. They gave up by the hundreds...thousands. All they wanted was to eat for God's sake. We treated them incredibly humanely. This last conflict saw more of the same. We have uncovered mass graves of what Saddam considered unpure races of people (sounds like Hitler and Jews). He killed anyone with a different opinion than him. He stole an entire nation and enslaved and oppressed them. He issued a bounty...a cash reward, on the head of ANY American (man, WOMAN, or CHILD - military or CIVILIAN). He celebrated the death of nearly 3,000 American civilians in the name of a Jihad and allied with Osama Bin Laden. This attack was worse than that of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. Pearl Harbor at least was an attack on military troops, ships, and installations in Hawaii. All this after we helped and armed him against a country trying to oppress his country in the 1980's. That was Iran and the Ayatollah Kohmeine, and hostage crisis that started with Jimmy Carters administration and ended with Reagan's administration. We were nothing but friendly with them until they invaded and took over Kuwait. They were there to steal everything, including oil, fromKuwait. Worse than what you accuse American of doing. They stole the oil for Saddam and his buddies in Tikrit. Of all the oil in Iraq and Kuwait, Iraqi commoners NEVER saw a dime. In fact, it got so bad they began starving to death while Saddam and his cohorts increased wealth, built giant palaces, and built and painted giant shrines, sculptures, paintings of guess who? Yep, Saddam Hussein. As far as support, I can't vouch for England or the other allied countries, (France never knows what the Hell it want's - They tend to sit and think about it until they are overrun by their enemies then we liberate them - It's happened twice - we've liberated them and they still hate us - a thank you would have sufficed - but that's okay, I'm enjoying my "Freedom Fries" - and by the way you can have your statue in New York back - I can make my own.) but America had a huge outpour of support for this conflict. At one time the approval rate of 270 Americans topped 73% and still shows the majority of Americans in support of our efforts in Iraq. We have lost an average of 3 people per day in Iraq. We lost an average of 15 people per day in Vietnam, 50 people per day in Korea, 295 people per day in WWII, 114 per day in WWI, and 570 per day in our Civil War. For a cause such as this, 3 per day is a small sacrifice coming from a former Marine's perspective considering our history of sacrifice. I hope I shed some light on this for you. Please notice that I have included myriad facts in my reply. I didn't pull this info out of a hat. I wish this whole thing wasn't happening as do most of us. But, we didn't as for this, either.
Best regards,
Kevin
| QUOTE |
| Forget the idea that they were being housed and fed. Forget that they were extremists, terrorists, Saddam loyalist militia, and government officials |
No, Not all of them were these things. Many of the people who suffered these abuses were not guilty, and were later released. Abusing innocent people is wrong - the reason this got more airplay than Nick Berg (as awful and disturbing as it was) was because WE (the countries who supposedly liberated these people and set them free from terror) actually did something we were aiming to stop - hence making us terrorists too.
As for it being " a few lame pictures of people on leashes" I have to disagree again. There were pictures of Iraqis being made to perform sick sectual acts - which brought shame on them from their family and their religion too. INNOCENT people were humiliated and tortured for no reason other than a few dumb a*s Soldiers decided it would be funny...
As for the Nick Berg story - they couldnt show that footage because it was absolutely horrifying. I never once said that Saddam was better than the American and British leaders (I think quite the opposite infact) - My point about the whole Hitler relation was one of power - Hitler took over his country, as I feel the coalition will be doing with Iraq (through the Iraqi government itself).
The third verse is referring to this Iraqi backlash against the coalition and how our countries have had their plans backfiring on them.
I dont know what your point was about Saddam, as I dont condone anything he did, and I know a lot of what he did was absolutely appauling. And no, Im only 18, I dont remember anything from the last gulf war. But, I do know all about his Kurdish chemical bombings etc. I do agree he was a terrible terrible man, which leaves me a little bewildered at why you are arguing the point.
As for the Americans "Liberating" France twice - you are slightly wrong there. The First world war was mostly British and Australian forces - the Americans didnt join in till much later on.
WWII, the Americans helped, but it was no way ONLY them who liberated france. That would be a rather ignorant comment to make, as the main invasion of France started with British forces leading American troops on the Normandy assault.
As for france not knowing what they want - I think thats called considering the consequences - something Americans and British have learned the hard way. If that was a reference to WWII, then the french didnt know hitler would attack them, as did Csecheslovakia, Poland et al. I'm sure if you americans were next to the germany then you would have had your a*s kicked - your arms were fairly pathetic when the war began.
absolutely brilliant, Meklo. There is nothing I'd change about your poem. It is almost like a Mozart composition in it's perfection.
| QUOTE (Unknown @ Jun 15, 05:18 AM) |
| absolutely brilliant, Meklo. There is nothing I'd change about your poem. It is almost like a Mozart composition in it's perfection. |
and your poem was also completely biased and only gets it half-right, but it was still very good.
Well, that's generally what happens when you write based upon oppinion. 
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