Hi, my name is Kate, and I am a student Mental Health Nurse, and I am investigating the effect of schizophrenia on communication within intimate relationships. I'd be really interested to hear any thoughts/feelings/experiences. Thanks

Hi Kate!

I don't think I have experience with schizophrenia (though this could be a delusion). Could you explain more about what you mean by schizophrenia? Thanks

wowww aiyana.... u rly luk like u can cope wid ure disability...can u tell me wat happens when they say that schizoids go into their own world and escape from reality? ive read this book...veronika decides to die and stuff...and after readin that..i thought that schizoids cannot recognise the disability.

replyy quickk plssss

Maybe this repy is a bit late ... but I've only just found the request for information about schizophrenia and relationships.

In our work, we often have physicians and psychiatrists refer people to us who they call "boderline", which usually means that they cannot decide whether the person is or is not psychotic.

Using systemic (relationship) diagnosis, we continually find that many diagnoses of schizophrenia are relatively simple systemic problems of identity.

Anyway ... I hope this section from an article about it is useful ...

...........................................

We assess behavior in terms of systemic (relationship) benefits and consequences. Systemic terms are not comparable with medical terms as they were created in two different knowledge paradigms. We have coached clients diagnosed with borderline schizophrenia, and sometimes showed that those clients showed one of, or a combination of, the following systemic symptom sets:

Identification - a person identifies with another person
Identity Conflict - a person identifies with two or more other people
Lost Identity - a person loses contact with their sense of "self"
Identity Bonds - a person's behavior is bonded by fear of loss

Systemic Coaching offers solutions for people with these symptom sets. As these people can heal themselves - these are not suffering from schizophrenia. (These symptoms can also be prevented.)

In systemic diagnosis, Identification refers to the unconscious acceptance (under stress) of a dominant personality. Identity Loss refers to chronic highly dissociated behavior (consider a stereotype mathematics professor engaged in solving a complex problem) and Identity Conflict refers to chronic bi-polar behavior or mood swings (think of "split personality").

Identity Bonds or Relationship Bonds (also called schema) refer to deep limiting beliefs that help a person compensate for perceived injustices during childhood. Relationship bonds are presented in more detail at ...


Identifications
Most people act as if they are partially identified to different degrees - and with mixed identifying strategies. (People learn many life skills by identifying with role models.) An identified person may feel normal, just and right, even when expressing emotions with behavior that other people consider abnormal. Identifying with another person is how a person (usually as a child) tries to makes sense of a senseless life.

Are you identified?
If you are identified, you may feel something or somebody in or around or close to you that somehow directs your behavior and may feel protective. You may feel a sense of guidance and protection - or you may sense an invading entity.
Personality identification follows systemic rules, and can be readily recognized with systemic relationship diagnosis.

A victim identified person expresses chronic anger and rage
A dead person identified person expresses chronic sadness and melancholy
A hero identified person expresses chronic fear and anxiety attacks

The symptoms are often easy to perceive – a victim identified person is generally suspicious and may enjoy annoying or tormenting people; a dead person identified person is generally melancholy and may be obsessed with death; and a hero identified person is generally fearful and anxious and may avoid any type of change. Sometimes these basic identifications are mixed - for example, "identification with a dead victim" may occur in a child who is born following an induced abortion.

An identified person feels most intensely when expressing the unexpressed emotions of a role model. These emotional expressions may come as a massive relief, although perhaps with awareness of unpleasant consequences to come. An identified person may describe an inner experience of "rightness in a wrong world".

Reality Check
You said that my symptoms indicated that I might have "identified" with a dead person ... yes, my dead grandpa felt totally "me" - he felt more me than myself. AP

Identity Conflict
Most people act as if they have inner conflict. (People who can follow or perform many tasks simultaneously are praised for this ability.) A person with identity conflict may feel normal, just and right, even when switching between two distinct persona with behavior that other people consider abnormal. Deep conflict is how a person (usually as a child) makes sense of two powerful conflicting influences.

Do you have Identity Conflict?
If you have identity conflict, you may feel that all life is conflict. You prefer to have six or seven simultaneous tasks. If you make decisions or promises in one mood, you may forget, deny or rescind those decisions or promises in another mood. Every decision is complex.

Identity Conflict follows systemic rules, and can be readily recognized with systemic relationship diagnosis.

A person cannot focus on one thing for more than a few minutes
A person shows personality or mood swings between two personalities
A person may deny promises or decisions made in the "other" personality

The symptoms are so common that they may be difficult to perceive. Severe cases of mood swings (between the two "sides" of the conflict) may be diagnosed as bi-polar disorder (manic-depression) or as intermittent anxiety disorders.

Soulwork discriminates between simple and complex conflict. In a simple conflict, two sub-personalities (parts) may simultaneously express different motivations, the most obvious being shown by incongruence between verbal and non-verbal behavior.
Complex conflict refers to conflicts that have three, five or seven simultaneous motivations (but only two motivations (or personalities) may be displayed).

Lost Identity
Have you Lost Identity?
If you have Lost Identity, you may feel empty and devoid of emotion. Your work and family life may feel empty or robotic. You have no real goals, but follow directions of people whom you trust, or your "voice-like" thoughts.

Lost Identity follows systemic rules, and can be readily recognized with systemic relationship diagnosis. There seem to be two main types of Lost Identity - in one people disconnect their connection to their core values (or self); and in the other people disconnect their connection to shared (family) reality. The displayed behaviors are similar:

A person expresses few or no emotions and appears dissociated
A person has little or no internal motivation
A person is unable to define own goals or outcomes
A person describes an "area of emptiness" in or close to the body

These symptoms are usually easy to perceive. You probably know some people who are so preoccupied with their daydreams that they cannot make decisions. Sometimes these basic sy

Okay, this article is all Greek to me, as I fail to see what, if anything, it has to do with intimate ralationships, and the impact that communication has on them. There is nothing to reinforce these findings, as far as I can see.
Please allow me this moment to expressing the problems I have with this article...

I have several problems with this article that concerns me, greatly.

First, let me say a little about myself to help everyone gain a better idea of who I am and what drew me to this topic in the first place, by sharing some of my background with all of you.
1) I do not have a PhD. I am not a psychiatrist, nor practice medicine. I am not a student in medicine nor am I a licensed doctor, nurse and so forth.
2) However, I am a sufferer of mental and emotional illness, and have been in treatment for over 30 years. My treatment began around the age of 7, when I was diagnosed as having Schizophrenia, due to my claims of sexual and physical abuse by my previous foster parents and upon returning home to my natural mother when she received full custody rights. Since then I have attempted suicide well over 20 times, my most recent attempt, just last year.
3) My experience and knowledge of psychiatric treatment and medicinal therapies stem from my having mental illness, and being a patient for such a long time period, as per, 95% of my lifetime.

My illness includes, but are not limited to:
1) Schizo-effective Disorder/Multiple Bi-Polar disorders with psychotic tendencies
(NOT Multiple personality disorder as this article would seem to confuse with systemic behaviors and Schizophrenia)
2) Severe Clinical Depression 3) PTSD 4) Adult ADHD 5) Borderline Personality Disorder 6) Psychosocial Disorder 7) Night Terrors 8) Emotional Disturbancy

On many occasions, I am quite paranoid, mostly of being left or rejected, of not being able to trust people, for fear of getting hurt. I have many strong opinions on life, and I tend to obsess over my own death, am often depressed and tend to cater to fantasies of suicide, and I feel the world is a very cruel place to be. I want no part of it or my life. I often misinterpret the meanings or intentions of others, and feel that I am being attacked emotionally, as I am extremely hyper-sensitive, but to understand where that comes from, within me, such as whether or not these fears are justified, and not solely based upon my illness, one would have to know the environment and conditions in which I was brought up, my drives and determination to righting a wrong that I deem is, ultimately, me.
I have been severely traumatized throughout my entire life, with the exception of the past 7 years, in which I am in a strong and healthy relationship, the first, ever, in my lifetime. Abuse has played a significant role toward many of my fears, and I have recently lost all of my children to death, and the person responsible, charged and convicted of their murders and the attempt on my life, and arson, was my ex husband, and he was executed in August. While all of the traumas I have suffered and endured, does not explain certain behaviors that are obviously due to my illness, many of the emotions that plague me, are justified, in some of the things I mentioned above. I go to therapy, each and every week, and I take 5 different medications every day, for a variety of symptoms of my mental illness, alone.

systemic
SYLLABICATION: sys·tem·ic
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: s-stmk, -stmk KEY
ADJECTIVE: 1. Of or relating to systems or a system.
2a. Relating to or affecting the entire body or an entire organism: systemic symptoms; a systemic poison. b. Relating to or affecting a particular body system, especially the nervous system: a systemic lesion. c. Physiology Of or relating to systemic circulation.
OTHER FORMS: sys·temi·cal·ly —ADVERB

systemic circulation
NOUN: The general circulation of the blood through the body, as opposed to the circulation of the blood from the heart to the lungs and back to the heart.

Systemic coaching and patterns are nothing more than a catalyst, a sham, or rather, a reference (used to lure in susceptible people into believing that through the shapings of the body, and nervous system, that the mind will be healed, therefore claiming a false cure through catering to the ideals of the mentally and emotionally unstable person/s) to the degree of symptoms one may present, and is neither a cause or actual symptom of mental disease at all, but a guideline set up for outside coaching of people with more, like, Borderline personality disorders and is basically the teachings of appropriate behavior, and positive coping skills courses, and is not, nor, should be accepted as a diagnosis nor cure, for such severe mental illness' such as severe depression, Scizophrenia, to name a few.

The primary symptoms of this diagnosis (Schizophrenia/Bi-Polar) are as follows, but not limited to: Paranoia, hearing voices, OCD, isolation, erratic mood swings, sudden bouts of hyperactivity or energy, depression, change in eating and sleeping habits, grandeur thinking and beliefs, violent outbursts and disassociation with reality, anxiety, panic attacks, and even drug or alcohol abuse.

The primary course of action is psyche medications, counseling, and/or group therapies that involve workshops such as art, and to teaching them focusing skills, and other skills such as crafts, coping and appropriate behavior skills, in a controlled enviroment, to help divert their attentions way from certain behaviors brought about by the illness, itself, and to aid in ones adjustments to society by becoming more self-sufficient/confident and self-reliant.

As one can plainly see, if an actual study was done, that there is a big difference between multiple personality, Bi-Polar and Borderline Personality Disorders, and just because there lacks an identity of self, that does not mean that the person has a different or multiple personality, and therefore (according to this article), is often unaware of what the other personality is doing. On the contrary, one usually perceives their behavior as normal, and if one does get treatment, then generally once the treatment/s begin to take affect, the sufferer is then convinced that he/she has been cured due to peoples praises of their changes, or just feeling better. This article, obviously misconstrues one disorder for another, describing a number of illness' combined, and claiming it to be based on schizophrenia, when it fact, the article barely even touches on the realities of schizophrenia, and offsets any truth behind its so-called findings. And I resent its implications. The only reference to relationships is in accordance to how the disease manifests itself within the compounds of this study, which is not even accurate in its information. The mentally ill and emotionally disturbed individuals have enough to contend with, without this kind of labeling and poor fact analysis, and is offensive, and promotes ignorance within an already ‘in-the-dark’ society and lends reasons for why many do not seek out help for fear that they will be deemed insufficient, crazy, and not worth helping or worst, receiving poor, inadequate, and possibly harmful treatment, through misdiagnosis.

The only reasons for me to attack the validity of such an article is due to my personal experience of living with Bi-Polar disorders, and due to the false, biased, and assuming nature of it. I am one who strives everyday to just being normal, as it were, to making some contribution in life, toward myself and others, and to getting better and/or establishing healthy ways to cope with the many health issues I have. I argue its validity, because I see it as a hindrance to those wishing and working towards the same goals, as I. I find it hard to believe that this article was written by a psychiatric professional, and if so, then I greatly fear its message.

I apologize for this being so long, but felt compelled to share my two cents worth; the need to correct the very thing I have been fighting against all of my life; misinterpretations of an incurable, and uncomfortable disease, and from treatments that are already uncomfortably probing and envasive, at best, especially damning when the diagnosis or discription of said illness' are taken out of context and often leading to the patient feeling misplaced. Who can we turn to for help, if we can't even trust those in place as so-called psychiatric professionals to get it at least half right.
And to think that who ever wrote this article, probably went to school and had gotten their PhD's in sorting out anothers mental state.

It is hard enough for many to admit something is wrong, especially in reference to the mind, as the label of mentally ill, automatically disassociates the sufferer from the non sufferers, just in context, alone.

Well enough said about this already.
Thank you for hearing me out on this.
Aiyana

As far as relationships and communication goes; for me, I have seen my illness' first hand takes it toll on my husband and it has impacted him greatly. Being with someone like me, with all of these disorders, being sick all the time, physically, as well as emotionally, is new to him, even after 7 years. He is proud, and though he has expressed his need to hear from outside forces, everything I share with him about my illness, my day, my life, and so forth, he has yet to go to counseling with me, and to hear and learn through others and workshops, positive ways to cope.

Coping skills, anger management and communication is essential, and can benefit the other person in a relationship that involves taking care of, and being there for someone, who has a mental illness or defect.
We do not have the best relationship, always, but I know that I am safe, and that he will never leave me, and that encourages me to getting better, and growing beyond all the setbacks.

However, when he hides his resentment for my being sick all the time, it develops trust issues, that can effectively put a crimp in the intimacy aspect of any relationship. Without communication in honest terms, anger and resentment can build, causing one or the other or both parties to blow up, throw things, hit, scream, and or just plain intimidate the other partner until his/her unrealistic needs are fulfilled. This happens frequently in my relationship, but the love is there.

I have always initiated communication with my husband, and for awhile there, he began to deject the idea, through committing the above mentioned behaviors, that has hurt my self confidence and any confidence I may have had left, regarding my marriage. Needing for him to understand how much that pains me, I began to be more honest, more persistent and more publicly outspoken regarding his treatments of me, in sharing with him, the development of my depression becoming more and more severe and constant. But it wasn't until his best friend and his mom came up to him, and told him that his treatment of me was not only wrong but damaging, and that he does treat me differently, talks down to me as if I were a child, and that his dumping all of his responsibility on me was unacceptible, that something within him clicked, and after 7 years of my trying to get him involved, in one night his friend and his mom was able to stir some changes in his behaviors.

Mental illness can have a severe impact on another, because they can feel as though they were thrown into this unwitting role of caretaker, thus the resentments and anger for the disease itself can be misdirected at the person who suffers from Schizophrenia, bringing about more turmoil and painful feelings, thus killing the sex drive, all together.

However, even if sex is not the forte of the season, actively communicating your fears, dreams, anxieties, letting go the petty ideals of how life should be, and pushing forward the effort not to remain in fantasy of how a relationship and partner should act and so forth with your loved one, can build up the intimacy to a higher level, as from that point forward, the two has shared a part of themselves to the other, that most, if none at all, ever get to see.
The real intimacy of a relationship, comes from the trust to divulge ones most innermost fears, allowing the unrealistic expectations to free themselves from the relationship, and the people involved.

But, before healthy communication can begin, knowing what one is up against, when dealing with a partner who is mentally and emotionally ill, getting actively involved with thier treatment, and letting them know they are an intrigal part of ones life, and tolerance of the disease, not the behaviors, is always the best place to begin in developing a strong and healthy relationship, thus bond. Also a great lead to a more passionate intimacy and sexual drive in the bedroom, as all inhibitions slip away, when the mind and heart is free from all the other unnecessary complications, as mentioned earlier.

Hope that has answered your question, Kate.

BFN (bye for now)
Aiyana

I also have quite a few problems with this article Kahekill. And with your reply to the above.

It appears obvious that the writer of the article lacks knowledge about the psychiatric conditions that he/she is reporting on. There are confused terms, explanations, descriptions, and definitions that do not match the terms. There are confused links between diagnoses that should not be linked. It minimizes the experience of the symptoms to "simple" issues without acknowledging many of the defining symptoms that result in a diagnosis being given. This can only lead me to believe that they are also not treated in this coaching system. One aspect of borderline personality disorder can involve relationship disturbance and issues of identity of which I can imagine some benefit is obtained from focussing on how one relates to others and how ones identity is formed as part of a treatment plan offered to someone with this diagnosis. As for "healing themselves" and evaporating conditions ... meaning that the person never had the condition? It means that they recovered, which is - based on longitudinal studies likely for 47-70% of people diagnosed with major mental health diagnoses.

Schizophrenia is a very different diagnosis form Borderline Personality disorder as is BiPolar, Anxiety Disorder. A "schema" is a cognitive psychology term for cognitive structures that consist of our fundamental beliefs and assumptions and should not be used as a term to define a process idiosyncratic to a therapy system as if it belongs only to that system.

There are many loose associations and tangential thinking in this article as well as poor examples. I could go from paragraph to paragraph pointing out the issues and wondered where the research is to back up this modality as a cure all for the diagnoses listed.

Your reply to poetsn2ition was surprisingly rude for a support professional in the face of someone who had taken the risk to disclose some very personal critical life events. I personally found this appalling.

I do not doubt that some people could benefit from this type of focus along their pathway so long as it was well planned and honestly offered as focussing on only an aspect of life disturbance that had occurred through trauma from people that quite naturally disturbs trust with certain types of people. Perhaps some people could get some personal growth insights into aspects of themselves, how they relate to others, how their way of relating was learnt in early life from this system as they would in many coaching and personal growth type course. If this was done alongside professional treatment from clinically trained professionals who fully understand the diagnosis, have respect for the experience of people with the diagnosis, and offer well researched treatment, this would be how it could be used without concern of causing harm to the person. I would be very concerned if someone with a clinical diagnosis of Axis 1 type used this coaching system described above on it's own and without such support or a history of such support to draw from as required.

And Aiyana, thank you for your post, I particularly liked the way you directly answered the question being asked and cited very relevant personal experiences. You offered some very useful experiences and insights with compassion for others and self respect. Recovery is tough and I am really happy to hear that you are in a supportive relationship. It sounds like you have worked steadily through a recovery process and are winning with it.

First forum post.

Linus Pauling cured many patients with vitamin B3(niacin), I recommend googling it.

Subjective / anecdotal evidence:

PT is 23 year old male, long history of drug abuse. Marijuana to opiates (hydro then methadone then suboxone), to marijuana, to alcohol.

Common thoughts: Many peoples main hobby was murdering other people. This came to include family members, long time friends, people on the phone, etc. Extremely isolation and chronic exercise.

Classic paranoid schizo, even though i considered myself intelligent I could not stop these thoughts. Another common symptom would be hearing voices of people I had spent alot of time around, for example - my niece. I would have full blown conversations with her in my head while trying to fall asleep. Her voice sounded pitch perfect. Also, my grandmother is a great example. I would have full conversations with her, without actually "trying", when I wanted to sleep.

Ok, cutting to the chase.

Its only been a few months since I've started niacin (along with other nootroos) and already the schizo thoughts have disappeared. I quit all illegal drugs (8/15/05) but now take stacks of 'legal' supplements, none
which give any sort of buzz.

Niacin is recommended to everyone, I believe the reason it works is because niacin is converted to NAD and/or NADH in the brain, which is the first step of energy production. Niacin also affects the GABA system, so a side effect is a kind of mellowness, which isn't all too pleasant. I don't find it productive for learning though.

mattmattchuATyahoo.com

About niacin, you shouldn't exceed 2 grams in any given day. Niacin comes in two forms; immediate release and delayed release. The immediate release niacin oftentimes causes your skin and face to flush and itch for upwards of twenty minutes, and usually kicks in anywhere from 5 mins to 30 mins after taking the supplement. The delayed release niacin can prevent the flushing and itching, but it is harder on your liver than the immediate release. My suggestion, if you're going to supplement with niacin, is to take the immediate release and do not exceed 1 gram per day. Long term supplementation with high doses of niacin can cause liver problems. Taking ALCAR (acetyl-l-carnitine) may offset the negative effects of niacin on the liver. On the good side, niacin supplementation causes vasodilation of peripheral blood vessels (hence the flushing effect) and lowers bad cholesteral and blood triglycerides. And also, as was noted in the previous post, may have additional benefits that have not been well documented.

I would stick with the immediate release - the flushing variety - because more if it is likely to convert to NAD+ in your brain. Or you can buy inisitol and have no flushes at all.