I'm asking seriously-- is NewAge babble useful or is it just a bunch of nonsense? If it's just a bunch of nonsense then how come people are so gullible and lacking with regard to intellectual standards?

What percentage of NewAgists believe in Santa? In the easter bunny??

that's a good question. new-age babble clearly carries a therapeutic value in the short term, however it is not clear to me whether or not it remains valuable in the long term

I'm not sure quite what you mean by "new-age babble". I've been a practicing pagan for more than 30 years, and during that time, I've looked at most of the trendy activities, accepting some, rejecting others.
The use of herbal remedies, for example, in conjuction with conventional medicine if needed, does seem to have an effect on physical well-being, whereas I am doubtful if the use of crystals has any effect whatsoever - though I know people who are convinced that it does. Concern for the ecology, the environment , is very much a part of new-age thinking and one to which I heartily subscribe; one only has to see the spread of salinity in this state, which is making much of the land unusable to realise that farming practices of the last 175 years (since colonisation) have done enormous damage.
Both Wicca and Druidry (though I do not wholly subscibe to either) have care for the family, the tribe and the land as core beliefs. Is this wrong, or a return to core values?
If you can be more specific, perhaps we can discuss this further.

When I think new-age babble, I think of tree-hugging wiccans and crystal-loving astrologers. There is nothing respectable about these things and I have no idea why people would believe in them except that maybe they have very low intellectual standards.

Judgment is the usual intellectual approach that is acceptable to the desire to change anything and make it new.
Evolution is the spiritual drive that draws us forward to find something greater than the intellect can conceive of.
With the combination of the two sprouts the cliques and raves of the New Age.
Each generation hopes to find a "new" way of life that does not reflect the whining and mistakes of the generation of the past.
But every generation perpetuates the whine and the actions of the past will be judged by the future generations regardless.
Few will learn to rise above the effects they feel from anothers thoughts, ideas and actions to actually live a life that does not drag the past along, with a non-dualistic approach to thinking and living.

This day was a long time in its coming and for sure another new day will arise and carry a new label.

so you see nothing new in the new-age movement, Joesus? I agree with Guest that it's much nonsense. Do you see any hidden diamonds in all the filth and mud called the "new-age movement"?

You will always fine what you look for whether it be filth and mud or diamonds. Your choice, your will be done.

You will always fine what you look for whether it be filth and mud or diamonds. Your choice, your will be done.

That's about as useful as Seek, and ye shall find. Come on Joesus, you can do better.

Hello guest,

You need to read what you find in the new-age words and make up your own mind regarding the sensibility of any claims made there.

You may not always find what you seek.
If you are biassed in your search, then your search will end when you find that which you are looking for to reinforce your pre-existing convivtion.
The search for 'only true' statements is difficult. It is far easier to believe what somebody else says and accept that, without satisfying yourself of its truth.

What is meant by some of the statements in other posts, is I think, 'If you like what you read and accept it - that's fine for you'. Of course that does not mean that what you have read or accepted is truthful. That is why it is called Faith!

At least assuming makes an a*s out of you, as well as me.

The particulars of what you believe are, in fact, quite relevant. You poke holes in the logic (or lack thereof) of other beliefs. I'm quite sure (speaking from experience with religions and beliefs, not from a desire to be angry or rude) that it could just as easily be poked. I don't believe in crystals, nor am I a wicca (though I've been known to hug trees) but your denouncement of other beliefs is still grating. I'm not one to only b*tch if you insult MY beliefs.

I suppose "close-minded" was ironic, if you want to consider the beliefs you despise close-minded. At any rate, new-age beliefs aren't the only ones that sound pathetically hollow.

Just in case people haven't figured this out yet, Joesus is perfect by default (he is an 'ascended master', capable only of perfection). If ever there appears to be a problem between Joesus and anything/anyone non-Joesus, we can rest assured that fault does not lie with Joesus as Joesus is utterly incapable of error. Thus, it goes without saying that Joesus needn't do better and that any person who cannot gain useful information from the sayings of Joesus must be asking wrong questions (although, according to Joesus, there is no such thing as 'wrong').

ganji, your comments about "tree-hugging wiccans and crystal-loving astrologers" have little to do with intellectual rigour; rather they smack of bigoted sweeping generalisations. As for there being "nothing respectable" about them, I urge you to look at some highly scientific work on the necessity to preserve old growth forests and wetlands, not merely to ensure the preservation of rare and/or endangered flora and fauna, but for the health of the planet itself.
Your comments have added little to this debate, merely demonstrated that "you know not whereof you speak".

Don't need to do better.
It may be better to ask the right question.

Joesus, is your requirement to ask better questions or the right questions reflective of a lack of foresight and creativity on your part, or is it rather due to closed-mindedness?

Ganji, we're talking about standards? I cast doubt upon yours, since you offer nothing to make them seem higher than any others. I'm ever so glad you think my opinion is worth no weight. As long as you understand that I feel pretty much the same way about you. We both have that right. I call you close-minded because your statements seem to me to be bigoted, derogatory, and rude. But I could be very wrong, and you are more than welcome to believe the way you do. Just try a little harder to let others believe differently, without compartmentalising them ignorantly.

ganji,

That was no 'baby step' from ExodusNights in my opinion.
It takes a mature and wise adult to honestly admit that they may be holding a false opinion!

Now, general statement, hopefully for the benefit of us all.

IMHO the web is probably the least effective way for us to convey our thoughts, feelings, knowledge and beliefs. We have to state our thoughts as clearly and precisely as possible if we are to stand any chance of useful co-operation.
I don't believe any of us take the time to come to Mind Brain, pretend to be typists [some of us using one finger for tens of minutes] for the purpose of flaming other people.
We must all try to presume that each others motives are to seek the truth, state the truth as we each see it, ask questions, make statements to test others beliefs, and above all else pull back when it comes to attacking other peoples beliefs - they are living with the help of their beliefs most of the time and despite them at other times.

these are just my thoughts and an attempt to maintain the high standards of which we are capable! [YES I make mistakes too, and I suspect this may be seen as one of them by some people, but I hope not].
Bill.

It is ironic that a topic such as 'new-age' philosophy should be the cause of me leaving Mind Brain.
In truth, I suppose it is not.
However, in view of ganji's response to my PM to him, pointing out that there is no need to identify people with beliefs different to his own as 'stupid' and his replied statement that he ****prefers to 'walk on egg-shells' ******I am now a past member.

I do wish everyone a better experience and better understanding and tolerance for the future.
I don't like egg-shells, for they signify emptiness for me!
Farewell!

PS *****My error*********
'prefers not to walk on egg-shells'.

I wonder if you feel that I have honourable motivations? Probably not - but then, neither do I most of the time.

Anyway, I would like to point out that astrology and tarot are not really proper "new age". Astrology has a history even longer than the reading of entrails, and tarot holds an ancient place in fortune-reading. I don't particularly hold with either, but I wanted to make the statement that they are old beliefs rising again, rather than anything truly new age. Wicca IS new-age - a twisting of the older, Pagan beliefs. I'm an old-school pagan, a purist, I suppose. It's unfortunate, how many of our beliefs are being twisted now by black-wearing, teenage girls trying to cast spells to find the true love of their high school life. I have utmost respect for real wiccans, but the overuse of the term "wicca" to refer to smoke-waving jackassery offends me.

I digress. I practice massage therapy. Would one construe that as "new-age", simply because it's seeing a resurgance? Hippocrates advocated the practice of the laying on of hands. He isn't really all THAT modern.

Incidentally, I do not currently practice reiki, reflexology, or energy healing. I work only with that which is physically and scientifically measurable. But my practice still comes under attack for being "flighty" and "fake". My point is, not all things considered "new-age" can be completely dismissed. Some of them don't even deserve to be categorised that way.

My mistake ganji; I have edited the post.

let's get a little common sense, for crissake!@

I'm sorry to see you leave Bill, your voice will be missed.

It's a pity that *stardust*, who began this thread, did not reply to my original post asking that the topic be more clearly defined. Had this happened, we might have had a rational debate, instead of suffering the bigotry and small-mindedness of one person in particular. I can only assume that the rudeness, arrogance and egocentric rantings are the product of immaturity and one day balance and objectivity will surface - when that individual has grown up.
Until then, ganji, I suggest you shut up and read, rather than subjecting us to your puerile ravings on topics where you display your ignorance for all to see.
ExodusNights, an excellent exposition of the differences between paganism and wicca. I can only add that Margot Adler, in "Drawing Down the Moon", defines it as a matter of a zero: she states that any commodity which is for sale by both parties will have that additional zero at the end of the price-tag by New Age vendors.
Bill, although I've not been a member for long, I have enjoyed your posts and respected the voice of wisdom and moderation which you have shared with us. Please don't deprive us of this; there are others amongst us whose voices would be far less missed.

Rune, find Ganji in the cyber-archetypes link that Dan provided and recognise what he is doing, what you are doing and hey, what i'm doing too

No, this board is not my real world but is a piece of the real world. The real world is all around us and is what we all participate in communally.

I'll take that as a retraction then

I would hazzard a guess that your world is significantly different to my own, which is in turn different to everybody elses. In fact there is no such thing as the "real world", thre are just lots of real islands that people inhabit. Occasionally the waters recede and a land bridge is formed from one to the other.

What would it take to form a bridge between you and Rune?

Tiny yapper, ganji? No, much more of a Toxic Granny. While you, of course, are L'Enfant Provocateur.........

Okay, so there is common ground between everyone in your "real world"
The bulletin board is not such a place, because it is an island of its own.

If you were to meet any of us in the "real world" you would have different opinions of us, to those you have here. You would be more courtious to us, and us you, there would be a level of respect that is missing here. For example I would find it much more difficult to tell you to f_u_c_k off in the real world than I would do here.

If you wish this bulletin board to be a "real world" then you must extend your views of what a bulletin board is to that which matches your real world view. Otherwise it will just be a toy you use to burn people, and while it is fun, you will not learn anything and quickly get bored.

More specifics about the bridge... it's the common ground that you know you already share with us, you just have to want to use it, and that applies to both you and Rune.

If you want me to go into how i think science works, i'd be glad to but i don't think you will want to here?

I would put you as a troglodyte, ganji.

Everybody has an opinion.
Point of reference is not always universal. Mostly personal and somewhat colored with a few judgments

That's very true, but the issue here isn't having differences, it's accepting them.

Well, actually the issue is new-age babble. But I think we've all somewhat lost sight of that.

Not to say that I'm not enjoying the fray.

True, ExodusNights, and I'm always open to alternative viewpoints when they're presented with courtesy, clarity and at least some sort of rationale behind them; the way in which I try to present mine. And although I found the inintial topic interesting, I won't be posting further on this thread; I refuse to continue a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.

Doh!!!!!!

Hey Ganji, on a personal note, what brings you to Mind-Brain? what is it that you are looking for?