Idd
Feb 08, 2004, 01:08 PM
I would love some comments on this idea I've had for a while...
Compared to animals, mammals or primates the degree of consciousness in the human experience seems greater there is more of it. The most striking feature of the human brain is the size of the cortex, no? What then, would happen, if the cortex of any healthy person was expanded by say half a centimetre? Would he or she become more conscious (the survival of the patient assumed)?
I think you've all heard about the mice. Half a centimetre of a mouse's spine curgically is removed and replaced with self-disolving tissue, treated with various growth factors, neurothropines or stemcells (whichever you feel most at home with). At the start, the mouse cannot move its hind legs (surprise suprise), but weeks later, due to the plasticity of the brain, completely new neural connections have been formed in the curgically removed area and in the mouse brain, and the mouse can run around again.
The latest thing I've heard about the mice is from New Orleans where researchers have managed to increase the number of neurons in the cortex of mice using yet another growth factor (this time BDNF). I don't know what happened to the mice.
Mice aside. What would happen to us, to humans, if the top of our skull was removed and functional growth factors were applied? Completely novel connections. I've discussed this with one full-time researcher in England. He didn't want to speculate into what the effects of this hypothetical treatment would be, but agreed that the result would not be chaos.
Please please please, comments.
Joesus
Feb 08, 2004, 01:51 PM
John Lorber, a British neurologist, found something of interest in a human patient. His specialty is hydrocephalics -- people with water on the brain. A patient was referred to him with an unusually large head, but no other symptoms. The patient was a gifted college student, majoring in mathematics, with an IQ of 130. Dr. Lorber performed a brain scan on him and found that his cortex was only one millimeter thick! The normal is over 4.5 centimeters! Fluid had replaced over 98% of the neurons used for thinking, and he was still above average!
Shawn
Feb 08, 2004, 03:35 PM
| QUOTE |
| I've discussed this with one full-time researcher in England. He didn't want to speculate into what the effects of this hypothetical treatment would be, but agreed that the result would not be chaos. |
Indeed. This is a fascinating topic, but we're, more or less, completely in the dark precisely because people seem content with speculation and more concerned with 'real-life' matters, or at the very least, more practical matters. Also, as a general rule, people fear the unknown and they fear change, unfortunately.
These experiments should be undertaken, not only in mice, but also in non-human primates, before seriously considering whether such experimentation would be useful or desirable for us. Nature provides us with ample test subjects (of which She willingly produces more), and we have the means and technology, so why aren't more people doing the sorts of experiments you mentioned? Ethics seems to be a major factor here, and also the way we've been conditioned by society, culture, and other factors to react to suggestions such as yours in ways that are not in our best interest. As trite as it sounds, cultivation of the will is the way. When enough people want something to happen, and when it's the right type of people, then sure enough it happens, and it happens as a function of their wills. Similarly, when enough people become more informed and curious about the sorts of experimentation that you mentioned, then the experiments will be done. If you are not in a position to perform the experiments yourself, then cultivate and feed the wills of those who are in such a position.
And so, it is my hope that you are provided with a more satisfactory answer to your question, in the near future.
p.s. There's no reason to think that just an enlargement of cortex is necessary or sufficient for expanding consciousness. At the very least, it seems that you'd also need a concomitant increase in the size of the thalamus, since they are both closely coupled together as the cortico-thalamic system. Though, it still seems simplistic to disregard modulatory subcortical structures, not to mention that simply an increase in size without an increase in functional specialization and complexity seems not very desirable.... though this latter concern can be disregarded if an increase in size invariably results in an increase in functional specialization and complexity, which seems plausible, save for the few exceptional cases involving diseased states, one of which Joesus mentioned.
Idd
Feb 09, 2004, 10:05 AM
You've given me a lot to think about Shawn. How can we reach the thalamus and initiate neurogenesis at its edges without impairing or damaging other regions close by? I don't know. I think what fascinates me about the procedure I described is that I believe it could be performed and the results observed (or experienced) at any time now, or certainly in a few years when I've aquired some necessary craftmanship.
You're right that the result would not be a "pure" expansion of consciousness, but what would it be (assuming the neural plasticity of the brain is as imaginative and intelligent as it appears)? For instance, an expansion of the neural mass (say by 10%) around prefrontal cortex, the neurons of which seem to lack functional specialization and division, could lead simply to more efficient and dyanmic cognitive abilities in a primate.
Moving on to more general hypotheses, what will happen when the brain finds an abundance of completely novel routes to the thalamus and other sensory or emotional relay-stations? Syneasthesia at will? (yes, I enjoy unsubstantiated speculation)
I wonder which ethical/legal issues such research in non-human or human primates would face? And which would be the theoretical/technical problems?
Cunning Linguist
Mar 12, 2004, 09:39 AM
I believe you can stimulate the frontal cortex by imagining yourself holding a feather and tickling your cortex. I heard this from some man on the radio.
Anyone else heard of this?
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