andrew
Feb 06, 2004, 08:03 AM
Hi all - my first post here.
Having read a formidable essay by Shawn dealing with aspects of an "Expanded consciousness", I wonder if there are common physical echoes of distinct experiential states to be found somehow?
I mean can one see similar patterns in brain activity or other during experiences of , say, "vasteness" and "time dilation" etc? If so, what are they?
I have read a book "the awakened mind" by Anna Wise, and she goes on at great length about a typical brainwave pattern commonly seen in people effectively using their minds. This pattern was especially typical of advanced Zen-gurus/Yogis/healers when meditating, presumably being in various (related?) forms of expanded states.
I also do recall interesting work by Persinger using MEG to investigate "altered states", and also some special helmet used to influence the magnetic fields in select areas of the brain, thus inducing vivid experiences of "divine prescence" etc.
Grateful for thoughts on the matter!
Tjohoo/
andrew
sol
Feb 06, 2004, 08:28 PM
Hello Andrew,
This is Your Brain on GodThrough out my work, I came to identify a pattern within my own consciousness that pervades all the topics listed to one degree or another, and this is what attracted my attention.
The mandala presented on the main page came from a book I experienced in dreamtime, that I selected.
I have a interested in how expanded consciosuness can be interpreted as well.
Hopefully having seen some of my work you will understand what the fifth element means from the perspective, of what probabilties could mean, when it comes from a vast ocean of possibilties.
Ideas then, become significant from a creative perspective.
I will look for the book you spoke of.
Sol
Shawn
Feb 07, 2004, 11:44 AM
| QUOTE |
| can one see similar patterns in brain activity or other during experiences of , say, "vasteness" and "time dilation" etc? If so, what are they? |
hello Andrew, and welcome to our forum. Indeed, the questions you ask are the questions we're after. To my knowledge, I am not aware of any research that can provide answers to your questions, but such research should be undertaken. The problem resides in the construction of the protocol. Say you're doing an fMRI experiment... how do you know that your subjects are experiencing 'vastness' and 'time dilation'? Would it be drug-induced or otherwise-induced? How would you quantitatively (or semi-quantitatively) measure 'vastness' and 'time dilation', in order to correlate it with brain activation patterns (or BOLD responses)? All of these questions, and more, must be fully addressed by any protocol before it could be seriously taken under consideration. But if someone were to draft together a protocol without fully addressing these questions, then it would never get approved, and the person suggesting the protocol would probably the butt of jokes for a while. The scientific method for addressing your questions demands quantitative methods and reproducibility... without these, it no longer is science, and cannot get funded or approved. It may be unfortunate, but it's necessary to keep our standards high to prevent pseudo-science or worse. Knowing the rules of the game (of science), we must learn how to utilize these rules to get what we want, which in this case, is coming up with answers to the type of questions that you've proposed. It's not impossible, but it is difficult.... so much so, that it hasn't yet been done by anyone, at least not to my knowledge.
andrew
Feb 12, 2004, 06:15 AM
Hi again,
yes - this is difficult science.
I recall Rob Monroe stating that they (The Monroe Institute, TMI) "used scientific methods, but were not limited by these". There is much to say about that, but clearly, to make progress one perhaps must also allow for and accept "obscure" research. Experiential work that depends on the current state of mind of the subject (and/or researcher) may never be reproducible, but can of course still be very valid.
Anyway - what do you say about the work of Anna Wise (and Maxwell C Cade) on EEG/brainwaves as a measure of "state"? Is there any substance in this kind work, or is it just a lot of wishful thinking?
Clearly, entrainment to patterns is possible, but does it lead to these altered states?
Also, how do you Shawn, go about expanding your consciousness? Do you use any particular method that is effective?
Eager to learn more and EXPAND!
Cheers,
Andrew
Shawn
Feb 13, 2004, 08:12 PM
hello Andrew,
an interesting quote from Rob Monroe. I am not familiar, off the top of my head, with the work of Anna Wise and Maxwell Cade, and though I think EEG is too crude to fully characterize mindstate, I think some good can come from trying.
| QUOTE |
| Also, how do you Shawn, go about expanding your consciousness? Do you use any particular method that is effective? |
I've placed a lot of hints regarding the methods I use and have used. It's difficult to flat-out answer your question, in part because everyone is different and the methods I use are not guaranteed to work for everyone. Also, I hesitate to be open about these things, not only to protect myself, but also to protect other people who might try to replicate what I've done.... I would not want other people to do what I have done, for their own good (they must create their own path).... because what I did and experienced is very difficult, to say the least, to try to integrate back into 'everyday life' and society. I sometimes look back, with the benefit of retrospect, and am utterly amazed that I was able to integrate what I did, but I don't doubt for a moment that there's much that I have not integrated, in part because it's impossible for me to re-experience what these other forms of consciousness that I experienced were like in my current mind-states except in the vaguest terms, where they present themselves as emotionally-charged, albeit dimly-lit, memories.
I will say, however, that pharmacological methods are highly effective. Not alone, but when used in conjunction with proper understanding and responsible use, and which require a certain pre-existent strength of mind in order to be used effectively.
Also what is useful is being able to control and manipulate your attention, at will, ranging from one-pointed meditation involving intense, focused attention, to the other extreme of diffuse attention, where you are aware of your environment and of yourself as a totality without allowing your attention to focus on any one particular thing. Attention takes many different forms. It is useful to explore these different forms, and to be mindful (or aware) of your attention.
One of the most useful things is just learning to see things in different ways. I don't know how well others can do this, since I'm limited to my own experience, but for me, I think of it in terms of Gestalt psychology.... think of the necker cube, which you can perceive in one of two ways.... well, try to generalize that to everything you perceive. If you do this, you'll (hopefully) become convinced that everything that we perceive is merely a construct, but more importantly, that this mental construct can be deconstructed and reconstructed in different ways, to yield different Gestalts. You might think that this says nothing about state-of-mind, since ones mindstate apparently remains the same during these changes in what we perceive, but this is not always the case. Ones mindstate is also a mental construct, and is also able to be transformed in such a manner. It takes practice, and also a certain 'plasticity' and fluidity in ones way of thinking and of perception/conception. It is well known that certain drugs enhance neural plasticity, and this seems to coincide with an increase in 'mental fluidity'.... perhaps this is more than coincidence.
jbramen
Feb 20, 2004, 11:01 AM
Well, I can't provide much incite into the neural correlates of "vastness", however the expansion of time is something currently being researched. A paper will be coming out in Science called: "Time flies when you're having fun" neuranatomy of the attentional modulation of time estimation," by Jennifer Coull et al. It explores a long known aspect of time perception; "a watched pot never boils." This is, in essence, a consistent shortening of perceived time due to inattention. One hypothesis is that there is a ticking clock of some sort that we tune into when we are attending to an event, and that as we attend less, we miss some of the ticks and therefore shorten our experience of time. They find that as the passage of time slows, and our attention to time increases, activity in certain brain areas increases. (See the article for more if you are interested). These areas have been previously correlated with motor function, music perception and attention.
Other studies on the topic of the expansion and contraction of time perception have been done on people under the influence of drugs and on patients with brain lesions effecting time perception. It seems that the dopamine system is strongly connected to our ability to perceive time, as patients with Parkinson’s disease, caused by a lesion in the dopamine producing neurons of the basal ganglia, tend to experience a slowing of time, where drugs that increase dopamine tend to increase the perception time passing.
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