That's it give up your inner knowing because of co-dependence and superstition.

Perhaps your greatest fear lay in the lies of the Ego.

Disagreement usually follows ignorance and prejudice. Wisdom allows for all ideas but does not reject anothers approach. Choice follows discernment and knowledge.
Knowledge can sometimes be limited.

Understanding of surrender and Free will would be of benefit to your discussion.
Also seeing that any problem is just a point of reference. Not all humans are as paranoid, or as superstitious to believe that Free will can be given up or taken away, or agree that a problem exists.
You might have a problem, but no one is obligated to join you in your problem.

It's an interesting view Dan, is it a personal viewpoint or are you paraphrasing someone else?

I agree with Laz... Dan's is a very interesting view which I subscribe to, more or less, to the extent that words can communicate such truths, even if it be in a partial sense.

But, to be more straightforward, Dan, you've nicely captured the objective of this site, which involves aligning peoples wills precisely to bring about this higher state. To those who would doubt that such a thing is possible, I would say they lack vision, and to think about how before we put a man on the moon, it was inconceivable that it would ever be done, or that before the advent of the computer, it was inconceivable that it would transform our lives in the manner in which it has. All is takes is a vision, and the expression of will for its realization. For great tasks, we need great wills and the alignment of many peoples wills towards a common objective. Mind-Brain.com provides this vision, I believe. It's realization will be dependent on the expression of will, and the alignment of other people's wills towards this objective.

I would not necessarily characterize the 'ground state' as characterized by suffering. We can mean just about anything by 'ground state', but I know what you're getting at, Dan. Nonetheless, I wouldn't characterize it so much in terms of suffering as in terms of 'meaninglessness' and small consciousness, and that
the higher states are characterized by meaning and expanded consciousness. It may be a minor point, but I thought it worthwhile to point out.

I would be interested to hear your answers to Laz's questions, and whether you have any additional thoughts on the matter, Dan.

Maybe you and Joesus are representing flip sides of the same coin, assuming that every deep paradox contains a resolution and synthesis.

"...A man of knowledge chooses a path with heart and follows it;
and then he looks and rejoices and laughs; and then he sees and
knows. He knows that his life will be over altogether too soon; he
knows that he, as well as everybody else, is not going anywhere;
he knows, because he sees, that nothing is more important than
anything else. In other words a man of knowledge has no honour,
no dignity, no family, no name, no country but only life to be lived,
and under these circumstances his only tie to his fellow man is his
controlled folly. Thus a man of knowledge endeavours, and sweat
and puffs, and if one looks at him he is just like any ordinary man,
except that the folly of his life is under control. Nothing being
more important than anything else, a man of knowledge chooses
any act, and acts it out as if it matters to him. His controlled folly
makes him say that what he does matters and makes him act as if
it did, and yet he knows that it doesn't; so when he fulfils his acts
he retreats in peace, and whether his acts were good or bad, or
worked or didn't, is in no way part of his concern." (Carlos
Casteneda, A Separate Reality— Further Conversations with
Don Juan)





I think there are a lot of good ideas in there too. I think what was important about the assemblage point. is the understanding of focus.

If you could shift your attention ,how would this be reflected in the field around you?

This sort of goes with the idea of the Godspot, and how what can be changed in the areas of the brain field , might have found a BEC moment resulting in the idea in the thinking brain.

Many years ago I read something about the Tibetans and posture while sleeping, how it could bring in different perspective because of the positions in which one could sleep. Another idea here is when Carlos would have his perspective change by creating a loud wap! to shift his attention.

Sol

Think i need to sort out my dreaming first

This would be of course a matter of perspective.
From the perspective of Union with the One Consciousness, there could never be any one working against another for they are all part of the whole. Such as the many parts of the body may have different functions, they work together still to maintain each other.
In the eyes of the Ego the individual is supreme, each part is separate and the idea of Unity is that all must conform to the one perspective. (whoever makes the statement "I see this or that" is the point of perspective) From the witnessing aspect of Conscious union all parts play a part to make the whole. Duality suggests that opposites are real, unified experience knows that the two parts make a whole. There is never any coming or going of parts just the vision opening to the whole.

The dualistic mind sees that there is a problem that needs to be fixed when that which is recognized seems out of alignment with ones own purpose/thoughts/reasons etc.
The whole mistaken belief that a unified perspective needs to be realized to bring the whole into a point of working together is only from a limited perspective of understanding.

The Great Teachers of the past have always maintained that there is no unity in a group, only a belief.
The Sage Brahmananda once said, " Let the thieves create an institution and let the Teachers walk amongst the world."
This has many meanings.
1) A thief (The Ego) needs or depends on the actions or wealth of another because he/she cannot or is not willing to do the work to stand on their own. This does not mean independant but to stand as the One, The Christ.
2) "Let the Teachers walk amongst the earth" was to mean that to the enlightened mind there is no attachment to the earthly rules and delusions of right and wrong, or the need to create an ideal, for beyond all earthly projections of duality there is only the one body and the one mind. Always it is a reflection of the self that is binding to duality by its limited perceptions and interpretations. To walk amongst the earth was to be in it but not of it. It also meant that none was dependant on another for the illusions of dependance on something external cannot be maintained in Conscious Union.

Jesus once said, "Behold the Christ." This statement was called in Sanskrit a Shruti or a statement of Truth. He meant see that the Christ is in everyone, In yourself, he did not say, or mean, " Hey Look at me, I am special amongst you and I am the point of focus."

Never in the past have the enlightened needed to work together by the need of diversity and influence. They have always by complete and utter surrender to the one mind naturally worked as One. Service is the hallmark of Union. The Selfish goals of the ego to take and separate are but illusions of interpretation. Only by seeing through the veils of illusion does the conscious awareness see the perfection of all actions.
What appears in diversity and struggle supports the motivation to find Truth and perfection in reality. When one stops looking on the outside through the conditions of the minds beliefs and judgments to the inside of where thought comes, then does one find the connecting link to all thought and action. There one taps into the Universal mind and can know the Self in all human action and thought.
Then through wisdom can one give to each according to their needs as they progress through their evolution towards consciousness.
In the diversity of illusion and Ego no two people will recieve the same truth or the same help. You can never make a single rule of action to heal a diverse belief system, but you can always rely on a single Universal Truth to apply to all.

As long as there is a belief in duality and individuality no group of any kind will ever meet the needs of the whole, for there will always be diverse opinion and belief. Man has to raise the conscious level of awareness beyond the limits of the mind and body to realize what is real beyond birth and death.

For as long as time has existed there has been conflict in beliefs and experiences. Where one set of beliefs and ideals are created a lable of religion and cult is pasted onto the manifestation of the group.
Where one holds to a specific single thought or ideal there is no room for anything else.

God is not dual, only the ego perceives the world and God as separate. Only the Ego believes in its experiences as the only experiences that are real.
One would have to give up their expereinces of personal reality to realize anothers and to join theirs to another in absolute Union, to realize the Universal mind which is in all experiences.
Then can one come from a greater awareness than the single self and the single body and then will the body fail to serve its perpose anymore in its service to push the intellect beyond its fears and illusions of death. Then will the body become immortal as it joins its immortal Self in reality and being.

In the last statement of the quote you said,

This is a given. All individual objectives, group objectives, and all other objectives can only be supported by the whole when they are recognized as the same objective. The desire to know the Self through evolution of conscious awareness, not by recognition of external definitions. To define anything is to separate the whole into its parts.
The application of this thought is endless, for no matter how small it is the universe does not end in either direction other than in the mind, when it is looked at through the eyes and the senses of the material mind. It only seems to end until someone comes up with another idea.
Someone once said early in the 20th century, "The Patent office is closed, there is nothing more that can be invented."
One need only tap into Universal mind and all things are known. For all things are only mirrors of the mind. What can be thought, can be manifest.
Understand this and everything is known.


"A one-eyed person can never hope to visualize depth of perspective. Neither can single-eyed material scientists nor single-eyed spiritual mystics and allegorists correctly visualize and adequately comprehend the true depths of universe reality. All true values of creature experience are concealed in depth of recognition."

Ouch!

Or you could just look beyond the limited perceptions of time through the eyes of your mortal body and dive right now into the awareness of the eternal soul and see that you cannot be parted from any part of creation regardless of the ideas of age and time.
You could even experience all of life in any physical incarnation if you choose to stop believing in the limitations of life and death and any relative point of reference.

Have you ever fried an ant with a magnifying glass in the bright sunlight?
What if God has this giant magnifying glass and he/she's just F**KING with you?

Throw down your crutches and be healed!
God Says

Or, people are addicted to thinking, because the don't understand, but they think they do!

If you think your spiritual part will die with your mortal part consider this.
The Grand Original Designer was becoming board with itself during the very long time before the Big Bang :~ It thought "I know, I'll create a place inside time" IE outside the event horizon. where I can experience joy/sorrow pain/ecstasy etc that would have to be much better than the painful eternal silence around here.
Then after much hard work creating the plan it realized, albeit too late, that on the trip into existence it would no longer be able to observe from afar but would in fact become a part the matter of Life. Ask yourself what you might like to accomplish in the next life, then start about it now. who cares what happens when we die. we all find out soon enough.

favorite saying; I think i am, Therefor I may as well Be! Alexander Reid
favorite site My Website

You seem to suggest that the thought would preface the experience. Would then the thought create the experience?
So what would be the point of reference for the thought that preceded the experience?
Experiences change. Who's experience would you use as your point of reference and if your own, which one?
Also why would the thoughts around the experience be of significance, or more important than the one you had yesterday, (which you probably don't remember)?

I never said that thoughts were bad, you might have given some thought to my post and given your own experience and meaning to its intent.

Really? I would be interested in reading any papers you have written on the subject

It's not difficult to see where your belief comes from, it is touted the world over! References to it are in everything we watch on TV, read in a book, hear in music, and talk about with friends. So whether you're a religious nut or a neuroscientist, you can't escape the onslaught.

As for the nature of your belief, only you can answer that!