You men are all the same, you turn everything into a macho battle of wills, you're pathetic.
I'm not surprised the Jenny is thinking of leaving, she needs some strong female voices to back her up.
Learn to love and you won't need to fight all the time.
evening_starr
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Full Version: Why do we seek enlightenment?
Starr, (I remember the Comic) Are you speaking of unconditional Love or attached love? One has a lot of expectation and judgment wrapped around it and the other does not know judgment.
Your perspective seems to come from judgment and anger and possibly some of the feminist ideas of oppression and victimization.
Shawn:
I haven't the desire to write one. The world seems full of people that are writing books about this same topic, using the same words and different words, and they are all speaking of the same reality.
The world is interconnected and waking up to a new perspective of what spirituality means to them.
In my eyes It Is God Uniting at every level, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.
People argue about their interpretation of it, rejoice in it, join together over it.
Regardless of the opinions and ideas it is evident that the wave of spirituality has grown and is continuing.
I was just reading an article in the "What is Enlightenment Magazine," and a question was posed to 12 teachers of enlightenment about the expanding pace of growth, time and change in the world. They described an exponential growth pattern both in technology and spirituality that kind of reminded me of your topic on the singularity.
They all met the question with the same answer, but with a slight variation in terms.
The interesting thing is that the Self evidence of spiritual growth may be obvious to some but it doesn't appear a reality to others. Different levels of interpretation always appear as the mirror to growing states of conscious awareness. IT causes one to constantly realign with their inner desires.
It's like pouring water through a funnel, with all the desires mixed together they are related to the one desire everyone has to find perfection, truth, peace and fulfillment.
The emotional stability that comes with all the stuff that people place outside of themselves like money, relationships, personal posessions and the need to feel right about themselves and the world are being narrowed into a deeper point of focus.
This one pointed focus is much more effective than dispersing so many conflicting desire streams.
Like concentrating light in a laser, one can place a dot on the moon where the same 40 watt light bulb might travel a mile or so, this focus of desire is similar in effectiveness.
Spirituality is refining the focus of the Self into its essential nature, and awareness is creating from that point of reference.
Your perspective seems to come from judgment and anger and possibly some of the feminist ideas of oppression and victimization.
Shawn:
I haven't the desire to write one. The world seems full of people that are writing books about this same topic, using the same words and different words, and they are all speaking of the same reality.
The world is interconnected and waking up to a new perspective of what spirituality means to them.
In my eyes It Is God Uniting at every level, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually.
People argue about their interpretation of it, rejoice in it, join together over it.
Regardless of the opinions and ideas it is evident that the wave of spirituality has grown and is continuing.
I was just reading an article in the "What is Enlightenment Magazine," and a question was posed to 12 teachers of enlightenment about the expanding pace of growth, time and change in the world. They described an exponential growth pattern both in technology and spirituality that kind of reminded me of your topic on the singularity.
They all met the question with the same answer, but with a slight variation in terms.
The interesting thing is that the Self evidence of spiritual growth may be obvious to some but it doesn't appear a reality to others. Different levels of interpretation always appear as the mirror to growing states of conscious awareness. IT causes one to constantly realign with their inner desires.
It's like pouring water through a funnel, with all the desires mixed together they are related to the one desire everyone has to find perfection, truth, peace and fulfillment.
The emotional stability that comes with all the stuff that people place outside of themselves like money, relationships, personal posessions and the need to feel right about themselves and the world are being narrowed into a deeper point of focus.
This one pointed focus is much more effective than dispersing so many conflicting desire streams.
Like concentrating light in a laser, one can place a dot on the moon where the same 40 watt light bulb might travel a mile or so, this focus of desire is similar in effectiveness.
Spirituality is refining the focus of the Self into its essential nature, and awareness is creating from that point of reference.
| QUOTE |
Joe should write a book......Seriously! Â How about it, Joe, is this something you'd consider doing? |
| QUOTE |
| Shawn: I haven't the desire to write one. Â |
I'd say that Joey has been writing his book the whole time. Â What is needed is a focused 'editor' to fit it together into a single coherent tome. Â I would title it Reality According to Joey
Joe, I really liked what you had to say in your first big post on enlightenment, it really struck a chord with me, one of those feelings like i knew there was definate truth in it.
I was confused by the duality concept, that seems like a slippery fish to me, i'll have to look it up.
As for Rtam Bhara Prajna, I went hunting and found all sorts of stuff on Yoga and Patanjalli and his Sutras i will be reading up on that asap.
As for your second Huge post on The Ascendant, i'll have a read of it later.
Cheers
I was confused by the duality concept, that seems like a slippery fish to me, i'll have to look it up.
As for Rtam Bhara Prajna, I went hunting and found all sorts of stuff on Yoga and Patanjalli and his Sutras i will be reading up on that asap.
As for your second Huge post on The Ascendant, i'll have a read of it later.
Cheers
I've just read your Ascendant post Joe, excellent.
This is what i've been looking for, this all fits into place, in my head. It confirms a good number of feelings and experiences i have had.
I am having a littel trouble tracking down this MSI guy, I can't find out what the initials stand for?
Found an excellent quote about teachers of ascension
This is what i've been looking for, this all fits into place, in my head. It confirms a good number of feelings and experiences i have had.
I am having a littel trouble tracking down this MSI guy, I can't find out what the initials stand for?
Found an excellent quote about teachers of ascension
| QUOTE |
| I am divine, you are divine - let's go have fun remembering how divine we are |
Ah ha! found out who MSI is; Maharishi Sadashiva Isham
I want enlightentment because I want to evolve in the direction of divinity.... In other words you might say that I'm power hungry.
You are evolving towards that automatically, doing it consciously aware is a greate way to speed up the process.
The heart is always yearning to rediscover the power of the Self within. There are no boundaries other than what we self impose.
The heart is always yearning to rediscover the power of the Self within. There are no boundaries other than what we self impose.
To Piratejenny:
"I don´t care for enlightenment. It is a strategy to postpone aliveness and happiness, a dualistic mental construct. If the ultimate truth you are looking for is not here and now, it´s nowhere.... What about finding instead of searching?"
Enlightenment is being in the moment, in being in the here and now. it's becoming aware of what already is. and besides, nowhere, now here... it's the same thing.
"I don´t care for enlightenment. It is a strategy to postpone aliveness and happiness, a dualistic mental construct. If the ultimate truth you are looking for is not here and now, it´s nowhere.... What about finding instead of searching?"
Enlightenment is being in the moment, in being in the here and now. it's becoming aware of what already is. and besides, nowhere, now here... it's the same thing.
Dear Joe, (or is it Jai?), this post is regarding your lengthy post on July 3rd. I found it very inspirational. I connected with and understood the ideas expressed in it. Earlier someone complained that there was nothing original in your posts. I'm aware that the ideas expressed in your posts are largely derived from Eastern philosophies but nevertheless the post I'm referring to was good in a practical sense in the way it described desires being tainted/distorted/shot down by the Ego. I felt encouraged to pursue the goal of enhanced conciousness (I'm inclined to agree with Shawn that Enlightenment is relative).
It was disappointing to find that many people use this forum to involve themselves in petty arguments instead of useful comments on their own perspectives. The thread began with the question of why we are so keen to acheive Enlightenment so I will make a contribution to that. I think use of the word 'we' is mistaken. Obviously the majority of people aren't interested in it. Personally I think my interest in Enlightenment and conciousness generally stemmed from the problem of the meaning of life. People could live a fantastic life or a very miserable one, but in the end, so what? It seems to me that nothing really matters and as such no cause is worthy of pursuit. The most auspicious achievement that a person could attain still seems shallow to me. So the concept of Enlightenment appealed to me as a way to be free of mundane existence.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone else that has a view on why they are interested in/ currently on the path to an enhanced conciousness.
Tim.
It was disappointing to find that many people use this forum to involve themselves in petty arguments instead of useful comments on their own perspectives. The thread began with the question of why we are so keen to acheive Enlightenment so I will make a contribution to that. I think use of the word 'we' is mistaken. Obviously the majority of people aren't interested in it. Personally I think my interest in Enlightenment and conciousness generally stemmed from the problem of the meaning of life. People could live a fantastic life or a very miserable one, but in the end, so what? It seems to me that nothing really matters and as such no cause is worthy of pursuit. The most auspicious achievement that a person could attain still seems shallow to me. So the concept of Enlightenment appealed to me as a way to be free of mundane existence.
I would be very interested to hear from anyone else that has a view on why they are interested in/ currently on the path to an enhanced conciousness.
Tim.
| QUOTE (Unknown @ Jun 16, 02:26 AM) |
| It seems to me that nothing really matters and as such no cause is worthy of pursuit. The most auspicious achievement that a person could attain still seems shallow to me. |
The realization of the apparent futility of life is a key step.
Sounds Pessimistic!
Life is not futile, it apparently is a gradual evolutionary climb towards ultimate singular consciousness, so that when this universe grows old, decays and eventually dies, the human race can live on via escaping (in the form of atoms) through microscopic wormholes into another part of the universe, or even into the multiverse. Once on the other side, atoms will reform (coleecting electrons as they exit the wormhole) into molecules and matter and subsequently intelligent life will be reborn.
As our universe expands to an eventual big freeze, life as we know it (infomation processing) will slow down to an incredibly slow rate where quantum events occur and are observed rather frequently.
Life is not futile, it apparently is a gradual evolutionary climb towards ultimate singular consciousness, so that when this universe grows old, decays and eventually dies, the human race can live on via escaping (in the form of atoms) through microscopic wormholes into another part of the universe, or even into the multiverse. Once on the other side, atoms will reform (coleecting electrons as they exit the wormhole) into molecules and matter and subsequently intelligent life will be reborn.
As our universe expands to an eventual big freeze, life as we know it (infomation processing) will slow down to an incredibly slow rate where quantum events occur and are observed rather frequently.
No, just realistic, in my opinion.
I, too enjoy science fiction, but the best always has just the hint of possibility contained therein.
For instance, when the BIGFREEZE comes, what will humans observe quantum events with?
I, too enjoy science fiction, but the best always has just the hint of possibility contained therein.
For instance, when the BIGFREEZE comes, what will humans observe quantum events with?
What may seem like science fiction today, with today's conscious capabilities, will become reality for a far more advanced cognitively operating society in the vast distance of the future (millions to billions of years of development from now).
Very good question, let me go have a coffee and comtemplate on that thought.
Very good question, let me go have a coffee and comtemplate on that thought.
"Parallel Worlds" Michio Kaku, pgs 338 - 340 (a must read!!!!!)
Step Ten: Wait for Quantum Transitions
....intelligent life facing the gradual cooling of their universe may have to cognitively operate at a slower rate and hibernate for long periods of time....
....the slowing of cognitive processes could continue for trillions upon trillions of years, where enough time would elapse for quantum events to occur....
....during this timeframe of intelligence in the universe, intelligent beings may think so slowly that such quantum events (a wormhole opening up) could become relatively commonplace....
....in their own subjective time, their rate of thinking might appear to them to be perfectly normal, even though the actual time scale would be so long that quantum events become a normal occurance....
....such beings, would simply have to wait until wormholes appear and quantum transitions occur in order to escape into a parallel universe....
....assume that the only stable wormholes discovered by future thought are microscopic to subatomic in size....
....in nature, when living organisms are faced with a hostile environment, they sometimes devise ingenious methods of survival....
....some mammals hibernate. Some fish and frogs have antifreeze-like chemicals circulating in their bodily fluids that allow them to be frozen alive. Fungi evade extinction by transforming into spores....
....similarly, human beings might have to find a way to alter their physical existence to survive a trip to anther universe....
....think of an oak tree, which scatters its tiny seeds in all directions. The seeds are (a) small, resilient, and compact; (
they contain the entire DNA content of the tree; © they are designed to travel a certain distance away from the mother tree; (d) they contain enough food to begin the process of 'regeneration' in a distant land; (e) they take root by consuming nutrients and energy from the soil and living off the new land....
....similarly, a civilazation may try mimicing nature by sending its seed (a 'Cosmic Egg') through a wormhole, using the most advanced nanotechnology available billions of years from now....
...."It seems...that quantum theory allows time travel on a microscopic level (quantum jumps)....
....reduce consciousness down to pure information using advanced DNA engineering nanotechnology, and robotics....
....future scientists would have to devise a way to send nuclei across the wormhole that would grab electrons on the other side and reconstruct themselves into atoms and molecules....
....laser beems could also be sent through microscopic wormholes carrying sophisticated codes that give instructions on how to reconstruct civilization on the other side....
Step Ten: Wait for Quantum Transitions
....intelligent life facing the gradual cooling of their universe may have to cognitively operate at a slower rate and hibernate for long periods of time....
....the slowing of cognitive processes could continue for trillions upon trillions of years, where enough time would elapse for quantum events to occur....
....during this timeframe of intelligence in the universe, intelligent beings may think so slowly that such quantum events (a wormhole opening up) could become relatively commonplace....
....in their own subjective time, their rate of thinking might appear to them to be perfectly normal, even though the actual time scale would be so long that quantum events become a normal occurance....
....such beings, would simply have to wait until wormholes appear and quantum transitions occur in order to escape into a parallel universe....
....assume that the only stable wormholes discovered by future thought are microscopic to subatomic in size....
....in nature, when living organisms are faced with a hostile environment, they sometimes devise ingenious methods of survival....
....some mammals hibernate. Some fish and frogs have antifreeze-like chemicals circulating in their bodily fluids that allow them to be frozen alive. Fungi evade extinction by transforming into spores....
....similarly, human beings might have to find a way to alter their physical existence to survive a trip to anther universe....
....think of an oak tree, which scatters its tiny seeds in all directions. The seeds are (a) small, resilient, and compact; (
they contain the entire DNA content of the tree; © they are designed to travel a certain distance away from the mother tree; (d) they contain enough food to begin the process of 'regeneration' in a distant land; (e) they take root by consuming nutrients and energy from the soil and living off the new land........similarly, a civilazation may try mimicing nature by sending its seed (a 'Cosmic Egg') through a wormhole, using the most advanced nanotechnology available billions of years from now....
...."It seems...that quantum theory allows time travel on a microscopic level (quantum jumps)....
....reduce consciousness down to pure information using advanced DNA engineering nanotechnology, and robotics....
....future scientists would have to devise a way to send nuclei across the wormhole that would grab electrons on the other side and reconstruct themselves into atoms and molecules....
....laser beems could also be sent through microscopic wormholes carrying sophisticated codes that give instructions on how to reconstruct civilization on the other side....
Oak trees don't have tiny seeds. Acorns are rather large, as seeds go.
don't acorns come from an acorn tree?
Acorns are the seeds of the oak.
States of consciousness are all relative.
Our very being mimics our state of consciousness.
By expanding our state of consciousness, we expand what we are, we expand our being.
Our very being mimics our state of consciousness.
By expanding our state of consciousness, we expand what we are, we expand our being.
Philosophy
If we really are the universe conscious of itself (individuality and the ego being an illusion), and if the universe is infinite (an infinite multi-verse of universes within universes add infinitum), then what does that say about cosciousness and the true identity of "I"?
Each philosophy reflects the life and temperament of the philosopher who created it.
Perhaps, all philosphy is autobiographical and is rooted in the personality of it's creator.
Only personal experiences can validate the truths contained in various different philosophies.
"Can we synthesize the disparate strands of man's thought into a coherent whole?" Albert Einstein
If we really are the universe conscious of itself (individuality and the ego being an illusion), and if the universe is infinite (an infinite multi-verse of universes within universes add infinitum), then what does that say about cosciousness and the true identity of "I"?
Each philosophy reflects the life and temperament of the philosopher who created it.
Perhaps, all philosphy is autobiographical and is rooted in the personality of it's creator.
Only personal experiences can validate the truths contained in various different philosophies.
"Can we synthesize the disparate strands of man's thought into a coherent whole?" Albert Einstein
"A human being is part of the whole, called by us "universe," a part limited in time and space. He experiences his thoughts and feeling as something separate from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal decisions and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty." Albert Einstein
Parallel Worlds was nominated for the prestigious Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction 2005, the UK's most important prize for non-fiction.
The book was also recently honored with Library Journal's "Best Sci-Tech Book of 2004".
The book was also recently honored with Library Journal's "Best Sci-Tech Book of 2004".
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