Full Version: Silicon Brain Implants?
is this possible, to link computer chips and brains in this way? It would be a combination of wetware and hardware. I'm not talking about virtual reality but of actually linking computer chips and silicon to the brain.
I'm confident we'll get there eventually, although I do not think current technology is sufficiently advanced for much more than rudimentary connectivity. Eventually we'll get there, though, and will likely fully eliminate biological materials that presently constitute the brain through replacement with synthetic materials
Its such a great idea, although i'm not sure silicon would be the circiutry of choice, probably constructs will be chemical in nature and maybe built from brain material that is grown into circuits.
If you have ever read any Peter F Hamilton you'll be familiar with Neural Nanonics and like me you'll be desperate to get yourself a set
Here's what he has to say about them in his Confederation handbook:
Nanonic technology is widespread in Adamist culture. It is a broad-ranging term covering both artificial neural circuits and cellular-replacement systems, as well as medical packages. The most common are as follows.
Neural nanonics, a web of neural-amplification circuits that are meshed directly with the brain, providing a datavise link with electronic circuitry. Most Confederation processors have a datavise facility, enabling an operator to interface directly with equipment, spacesuits, vehicles, etc.; this also provides a link with local communication nets. Other principal functions include neuroiconic displays, imprinting data directly into the brain; enhanced memory capacity; control over implants; and physiological and medical monitoring. Neural nanonics also receive entertainment shows in the form of sensevises, and can play sensenviron memories immersing the recipient in a total artificial environment that has video, audio, tactile and olfactory components, allowing complete immersion in fantasy worlds. The most popular flek recordings are mood fantasy albums produced by artists such as Jezzibella, which can also be used through direct optical interfaces, although these lack the full impact of a direct sensevise. Inevitably there is always a big market for bluesense fleks everywhere in the Confederation.
This technology is extremely prevalent, with something like 75-80 percent of Confederation Adamist adults on developed planets fitted with neural nanonics. They are implanted only when the brain has stopped growing, i.e. at sixteen to eighteen years old. For anyone involved in up-to-date aspects of modern society they are essential: fewer and fewer technological systems are being built with manual interfaces, and professions such as medicine or starship crewing cannot be conducted without them.
The distaff side of neural nanonics is sequestration nanonics, which can be used to infiltrate a person's cortex and puppet the entire body. These systems are highly illegal, and on most worlds their possession or use entails high penalties.
Government Intelligence agencies and the police forces of more authoritarian planets also use debrief nanonics, which can probe the brain's memory centers, extracting information directly...
If you have ever read any Peter F Hamilton you'll be familiar with Neural Nanonics and like me you'll be desperate to get yourself a set
Here's what he has to say about them in his Confederation handbook:
Nanonic technology is widespread in Adamist culture. It is a broad-ranging term covering both artificial neural circuits and cellular-replacement systems, as well as medical packages. The most common are as follows.
Neural nanonics, a web of neural-amplification circuits that are meshed directly with the brain, providing a datavise link with electronic circuitry. Most Confederation processors have a datavise facility, enabling an operator to interface directly with equipment, spacesuits, vehicles, etc.; this also provides a link with local communication nets. Other principal functions include neuroiconic displays, imprinting data directly into the brain; enhanced memory capacity; control over implants; and physiological and medical monitoring. Neural nanonics also receive entertainment shows in the form of sensevises, and can play sensenviron memories immersing the recipient in a total artificial environment that has video, audio, tactile and olfactory components, allowing complete immersion in fantasy worlds. The most popular flek recordings are mood fantasy albums produced by artists such as Jezzibella, which can also be used through direct optical interfaces, although these lack the full impact of a direct sensevise. Inevitably there is always a big market for bluesense fleks everywhere in the Confederation.
This technology is extremely prevalent, with something like 75-80 percent of Confederation Adamist adults on developed planets fitted with neural nanonics. They are implanted only when the brain has stopped growing, i.e. at sixteen to eighteen years old. For anyone involved in up-to-date aspects of modern society they are essential: fewer and fewer technological systems are being built with manual interfaces, and professions such as medicine or starship crewing cannot be conducted without them.
The distaff side of neural nanonics is sequestration nanonics, which can be used to infiltrate a person's cortex and puppet the entire body. These systems are highly illegal, and on most worlds their possession or use entails high penalties.
Government Intelligence agencies and the police forces of more authoritarian planets also use debrief nanonics, which can probe the brain's memory centers, extracting information directly...
very interesting. One of the major obstacles would be the interface. Another would be deciding on the exact design of the chip, or silicon- or VLSI-based network. How would you design the chip? It would probably have to be something that replicates (or can be appended to) brain circuitry and function. Interesting ideas.
actually id like to back out of my statement about silicon electronics not interfacing with brain cells as i've just read this in another thread:
A recent experiment at San Diego's Institute for Nonlinear Science demonstrates the potential for electronic neurons to precisely emulate biological ones. Neurons (biological or otherwise) are a prime example of what is often called "chaotic computing." Each neuron acts in an essentially unpredictable fashion. When an entire network of neurons receives input (from the outside world or from other networks of neurons), the signaling amongst them appears at first to be frenzied and random. Over time, typically a fraction of a second or so, the chaotic interplay of the neurons dies down, and a stable pattern emerges. This pattern represents the "decision" of the neural network. If the neural network is performing a pattern recognition task (which, incidentally, comprises the bulk of the activity in the human brain), then the emergent pattern represents the appropriate recognition.
So the question addressed by the San Diego researchers was whether electronic neurons could engage in this chaotic dance alongside biological ones. They hooked up their artificial neurons with those from spiney lobsters in a single network, and their hybrid biological-nonbiological network performed in the same way (i.e., chaotic interplay followed by a stable emergent pattern) and with the same type of results as an all biological net of neurons. Essentially, the biological neurons accepted their electronic peers. It indicates that their mathematical model of these neurons was reasonably accurate.
I'm not sure what is meant by "accepted" but it sounds promising.
A recent experiment at San Diego's Institute for Nonlinear Science demonstrates the potential for electronic neurons to precisely emulate biological ones. Neurons (biological or otherwise) are a prime example of what is often called "chaotic computing." Each neuron acts in an essentially unpredictable fashion. When an entire network of neurons receives input (from the outside world or from other networks of neurons), the signaling amongst them appears at first to be frenzied and random. Over time, typically a fraction of a second or so, the chaotic interplay of the neurons dies down, and a stable pattern emerges. This pattern represents the "decision" of the neural network. If the neural network is performing a pattern recognition task (which, incidentally, comprises the bulk of the activity in the human brain), then the emergent pattern represents the appropriate recognition.
So the question addressed by the San Diego researchers was whether electronic neurons could engage in this chaotic dance alongside biological ones. They hooked up their artificial neurons with those from spiney lobsters in a single network, and their hybrid biological-nonbiological network performed in the same way (i.e., chaotic interplay followed by a stable emergent pattern) and with the same type of results as an all biological net of neurons. Essentially, the biological neurons accepted their electronic peers. It indicates that their mathematical model of these neurons was reasonably accurate.
I'm not sure what is meant by "accepted" but it sounds promising.
Monkey Brain Operates Machine
Wednesday, 15 November, 2000, 19:37 GMT
Scientists have used the brain signals from a monkey to drive a robotic arm. As the animal stuck out its hand to pick up some food off a tray, an artificial neural system linked into the animal's head mimicked the activity in the mechanical limb.
It was an amazing sight to see the robot in my lab move, knowing that it was being driven by signals from a monkey brain Mandayam Srinivasan, MIT The system was even used to remotely control another robot arm 950 kilometres (600 miles) away in a different lab.
This is not the first time that a device has been operated by "brain power" alone, but the experiment marks a significant step forward in sophistication.
It holds out the prospect that, one day, paralysed patients might be able to command the movement of prosthetic limbs that have been "wired" into their brains.
Commenting on the research, Sandro Mussa-Ivaldi, of the Northwestern University Medical School, and the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, Illinois, US, said: "The idea of driving robotic limbs with what effectively amounts to the mere power of thought was once in the realm of science fiction. But this goal is edging closer to reality."
Net connection
Miguel Nicolelis, of Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, US, and colleagues, implanted an array of electrodes in several areas of a monkey's brain known to be involved in motor function.
Miguel Nicolelis, his monkey and the robotic arm The electrodes were used to record brain activity as the animal learned reaching tasks, including reaching for small pieces of food placed randomly at four locations on a tray.
The mass of neural signal data generated during many repetitions of these tasks was fed into a computer, which analysed the information and matched it to the trajectory of the monkey's hand.
Every time the monkey then moved its hand to grab the food, the computer was able to process the brain signals to make similar, real-time, three-dimensional movements in a robotic arm. The signals were even sent over a standard internet connection to control another arm in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's "Touch Lab".
"It was an amazing sight to see the robot in my lab move, knowing that it was being driven by signals from a monkey brain at Duke," said Touch Lab director and co-researcher Mandayam Srinivasan. "It was as if the monkey had a 600-mile- (950-km-) long virtual arm."
Brain study
In previous research, it has been shown that a rat wired into an artificial neural system can make a robotic water feeder move just by willing it.
The idea of driving robotic limbs with what effectively amounts to the mere power of thought was once in the realm of science fiction Sandro Mussa-Ivaldi, Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago But the latest work sets new benchmarks because it shows how to process more neural information at a faster speed to produce more sophisticated robotic movements. That the system can be made to work using a primate is also an important proof of principle.
Miguel Nicolelis told BBC News Online that people would obviously focus on possible future applications for quadriplegics but he said the system also offered a new way to probe the workings of the brain.
"We have designed a new paradigm to study how the brain processes information," he said.
"Until fairly recently, we tried to understand the brain by looking at one neuron at a time, but we all know the brain works in a parallel mode requiring the activation of huge numbers of cells to produce any behaviour.
"So the implementation of this technique for recording up to a 100 neurons in primates is a big deal for science."
Monkey Mind Over Matter
We've come a long way from Penfield.
Sol
Wednesday, 15 November, 2000, 19:37 GMT
Scientists have used the brain signals from a monkey to drive a robotic arm. As the animal stuck out its hand to pick up some food off a tray, an artificial neural system linked into the animal's head mimicked the activity in the mechanical limb.
It was an amazing sight to see the robot in my lab move, knowing that it was being driven by signals from a monkey brain Mandayam Srinivasan, MIT The system was even used to remotely control another robot arm 950 kilometres (600 miles) away in a different lab.
This is not the first time that a device has been operated by "brain power" alone, but the experiment marks a significant step forward in sophistication.
It holds out the prospect that, one day, paralysed patients might be able to command the movement of prosthetic limbs that have been "wired" into their brains.
Commenting on the research, Sandro Mussa-Ivaldi, of the Northwestern University Medical School, and the Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago, Illinois, US, said: "The idea of driving robotic limbs with what effectively amounts to the mere power of thought was once in the realm of science fiction. But this goal is edging closer to reality."
Net connection
Miguel Nicolelis, of Duke University, Durham, North Carolina, US, and colleagues, implanted an array of electrodes in several areas of a monkey's brain known to be involved in motor function.
Miguel Nicolelis, his monkey and the robotic arm The electrodes were used to record brain activity as the animal learned reaching tasks, including reaching for small pieces of food placed randomly at four locations on a tray.
The mass of neural signal data generated during many repetitions of these tasks was fed into a computer, which analysed the information and matched it to the trajectory of the monkey's hand.
Every time the monkey then moved its hand to grab the food, the computer was able to process the brain signals to make similar, real-time, three-dimensional movements in a robotic arm. The signals were even sent over a standard internet connection to control another arm in the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's "Touch Lab".
"It was an amazing sight to see the robot in my lab move, knowing that it was being driven by signals from a monkey brain at Duke," said Touch Lab director and co-researcher Mandayam Srinivasan. "It was as if the monkey had a 600-mile- (950-km-) long virtual arm."
Brain study
In previous research, it has been shown that a rat wired into an artificial neural system can make a robotic water feeder move just by willing it.
The idea of driving robotic limbs with what effectively amounts to the mere power of thought was once in the realm of science fiction Sandro Mussa-Ivaldi, Rehabilitation Institute of Chicago But the latest work sets new benchmarks because it shows how to process more neural information at a faster speed to produce more sophisticated robotic movements. That the system can be made to work using a primate is also an important proof of principle.
Miguel Nicolelis told BBC News Online that people would obviously focus on possible future applications for quadriplegics but he said the system also offered a new way to probe the workings of the brain.
"We have designed a new paradigm to study how the brain processes information," he said.
"Until fairly recently, we tried to understand the brain by looking at one neuron at a time, but we all know the brain works in a parallel mode requiring the activation of huge numbers of cells to produce any behaviour.
"So the implementation of this technique for recording up to a 100 neurons in primates is a big deal for science."
Monkey Mind Over Matter
We've come a long way from Penfield.
Sol
I remember reading the original article about 'Monkey Brain Operates Machine' in "Nature Neuroscience" or some journal like that. Fascinating stuff, though it's still quite a ways off from being used in humans. There are other technical problems, too, like being limited by the number of 'channels' you have for recording the neural activity that's used for controlling the robotic arm.
with our brains being amazing as they are, I would think that before controversial external additions were made, there would be some sort of device that would stimulate what we already have first. It seems like a logical first step. Rather than introducing a man made (imperfect) device, with an infinity of unknown side effects, efforts should be made to "activate" our present brain to the fullest capacity.... as is... if we were able to implant something that would cause stimulation to the process of neurological conductivity ....
enhancing the brain should not be the quest, but instead understanding more fully, and using it more to it's capability....
enhancing the brain should not be the quest, but instead understanding more fully, and using it more to it's capability....
| QUOTE |
| I would think that before controversial external additions were made, there would be some sort of device that would stimulate what we already have first. |
Excellent point, though all we have nowadays are stimulating electrodes, transcranial magnetic stimulation, and entheogens/pharmacology.
I kind of like the idea of having stimulating electrodes throughout my brain, assuming the process didn't induce any brain damage. Maybe a multi-electrode interface involving some chip or circuit could be devised for the intricate and well-controlled stimulation of the brain.
At this point I begin to see a big red arrow pointing to other parts of the board. It is indicating that we maybe don't need science to further develop our brains only some quiet time for personal reflection and experimentation 
"Be vewy vewy qwiet, i'm hunting; myself heheheh"
"Be vewy vewy qwiet, i'm hunting; myself heheheh"
This Is Your Brain on God
Michael Persinger has a vision - the Almighty isn't dead, he's an energy field. And your mind is an electromagnetic map to your soul.
Does this run in contradiction to how Damasio sees?
Damasio's First Law
The body precedes the mind.
Damasio's Second Law
Emotions precede feelings.
Damasio's Third Law
Concepts precede words.
What is Your Law?
What if the condensaition of the human brain was the reverse of Damasio's First Law. I mean we can train the neuron pathways to be reconstructed, by establishing the movements previously damaged by stroke.
What is the evolution of the human brain, that mind is not leading its shape?
Michael Persinger has a vision - the Almighty isn't dead, he's an energy field. And your mind is an electromagnetic map to your soul.
Does this run in contradiction to how Damasio sees?
Damasio's First Law
The body precedes the mind.
Damasio's Second Law
Emotions precede feelings.
Damasio's Third Law
Concepts precede words.
What is Your Law?
What if the condensaition of the human brain was the reverse of Damasio's First Law. I mean we can train the neuron pathways to be reconstructed, by establishing the movements previously damaged by stroke.
What is the evolution of the human brain, that mind is not leading its shape?
Theodore Berger at USC has been creating hippocampal implants that can accept synaptic inputs. I saw him speak last year, and unfortunately I can't remember if he used silicon or not. He did manage to create surfaces that would accept inputs and surfaces that would not, so that the neurons wouldn't just pile up in a tangles mess.
His work is actually really interesting. His neural network models have led to great improvements in both implant technology and voice recognition. Anyone who is interested can go to:
http://www.usc.edu/programs/pibbs/site/faculty/berger_t.htm
His work is actually really interesting. His neural network models have led to great improvements in both implant technology and voice recognition. Anyone who is interested can go to:
http://www.usc.edu/programs/pibbs/site/faculty/berger_t.htm
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