Does it not seem like as far as we have come (opening up our minds, getting in touch with others, ourselves, nature, or any other enegry/force) that we are just relearning things. When we are kids we already are in touch with everything and we can even see auras. We have to relearn these things once we become older. Back when the founders of our knowledge, the shamians (probably not spelled right), were doing their thing, they were deeply intouch with nature and just about every sort of enegry...and guess what man kind has to relearn what man learned so many years ago. Even dealing with our minds, they knew alot of things about the power of our minds then but over the years and events that have taken place, man has forgotten it...and has to relearn it. It is good that we are learning to open up to these things but it is sad that we could have already been there years ago,....and we were.

of course a big set back was the muders of these wise people of our times because of the fear some men held for what they did not know.

we new these things in the youth of the human race or the youth of ourselvs?

both, all depending on which way you want to look at it. In the youth of the human race we knew alot of things that pertain to what i was talking about. Mostly, because we didnt question things, they just were. Just like when you are a child, you're too naive to question. I think maybe we have replaced all of the old knowledge we had then with our new worries as we grew as people and as a person. slowly but surely...

Well i can answer this in 2 ways. First with the human race being young. The reason,  i believe, we dont keep this kind of knowledge/abilities as our race aged is we pushed nature farther and farther away until we were out of touch with it. Some of the people i know still have a sudo relationship with nature (was that used right?). Some of my friends see ghosts, I can always tell when it will rain just by a fealing i get. If we were to revert back to a more primative way of living we would probably become more intouch with nature ounce again and not have to relearn all of these things, they would be natural.

As far as us growing up and being able to do these things as children. I myself cant remember that far back, I can hardly remember what i had for lunch last Monday, if I even ate lol. If we do alredy have these abilities as children then I would say its the way we are raised that makes us forget these things and the ideas put into our heads by society.

The fact that we can relearn these things proves to me that at one time or another we, as a race or as individuals, were able to do these things and if we try hard enough we can do it again.

I completely agree. You should get a cookie... ;D you can put your thoughts in words much better than i. I can only write poetry, to get my thoughts out well.

I write good! But not in a structured maner, and i suck at poetry. My friend practices shamanism, i can ask him to post some of his beliefs here if you want to know more.

I still dont know the answers to those questions and i probably never will.

Ignore the above post, wrong forum.

*smile*

Hey Ailin, great thread. About children: I don´t know if this makes sense to you  but I don´t think that the brain can un-learn. If you could see auras as a child, the brain has the capacity and knows how to do it. You can not un-learn to be musical or psychic or artistic. The trouble is that the child gets alot of judgement and fear from grown-ups and alot of "you are crazy and weird, there are no funny colours around Auntie Margies head...." Some kids get too frightened to use these skills but they are always there. Love, PJ

Piratjenny, I do have to agree with you, but I do believe that the brain can forget.  Yes, the knowledge is somewhere in the mesh of our brain, but not all know it's there.  Children who have been taught not to see auras or other special things learn that they aren't real and won't see them anymore.  They are taught to forget the imaginary world.  
Do children really see imaginary friends, or are they really just lost spirits that need a friend?

I agree with both, depending on which way you want to look at it. I think the mind can forget in the way of supression. Sort of like forgettiing you have a dollar in an old wallet. Also, If the mind had fully forgotten then there would be no releaning, Technically, because everything you learn is not always new and everything found is not always new. I think is may just be reopening apart of the mind that has been supressed.

i have read/heard that if you stop useing a skill you forget it. The knowledge is still there but the synaptic pathways that alowed you to do so have degenerated so it is almost imposible for you to do it again unless you relearn it. Sapose we could do all these things but society and the way our parents raised us told us not to do these things so the pathways have degenerated. Just a thought.

Blessed be

QUOTE

Piratjenny, I do have to agree with you, but I do believe that the brain can forget.  Yes, the knowledge is somewhere in the mesh of our brain, but not all know it's there.  Children who have been taught not to see auras or other special things learn that they aren't real and won't see them anymore.  They are taught to forget the imaginary world.   Do children really see imaginary friends, or are they really just lost spirits that need a friend?

With seing auras we speak about an inherent skill. Not all children do it and I assume it is partly genetic. People can be conditioned/hypnotized not to use a skill, but the talent for it remains. Can anybody share his/her experience? Like seing auras as a child and loosing it? Or hearing voices, etc?

Interesting what you say about imaginary friends. I was wondering about them before. Did you have them?
LOve, PJ

I never really had imaginary friends but I do know some children that did.  

A word on nostalgia (in regard to the youth of the human race). It's a natural human tendency to glamourise the past. To assume that people used to be better or more in touch with nature or more balanced is a fairy-tale.

"We are what we always were. But naked now."

The Crucible by Arthur Miller.

Seanf, this is a great point. I am glad you brought it up.

There is also a Jungian scholar, Marie Luise von Franz, who wrote a book about this. She says that everything good and peaceful is projected in the past, and everything scary and destructive is projected in the future : paradise and apocalypse.

I can imagine that people were closer to nature, just because they were totally depending on it: Animals for food, weather for survival, water to drink aso. But I agree with you that our popular assumptions, like that they were treating these animals with greater respect or even that everybody was spiritual, are shere speculations. It is most likely that Neanderthalers were partly cannibals...
LOve, PJ

In my case it's opposite. I think the future is bright and the past is ugly.

Excuse my assumption, but isn´t that a belief we have about our personal life, when we move from an unhappy childhood in a more autonomous and happy adult life?

The paradise-apocalypse archetype is collective and unconcious, according to von Franz. I have seen it raise its ugly head many times; think of the fear of 1984, the fear of the Millenium, the apocalyptic cults in the 90-ties, Y2K, phantasies about the apocalypse, also discussed on this forum...

And the same goes for projecting the golden age back into the past. We believe that people lived in perfect unity with nature, war and crime was unknown and everybody was dancing happily around the campfire at night...

I will try to find the english title of the publication, I found it helpful and interesting.

How are you doing these days? I guess it must be raining in Aachen too...
LOve
Piratjenny

The rain has ceased two days ago, and today the sun was visible for the first time almost in weeks. According to the prognostics we're going to have a warm and sunny time coming in...

Yes, it might have personal reasons to believe the future is better than the past, but it's not so much the childhood. Apart from my father, who wasn't there most of the time, my childhood was really protected. It was in the countryside, and I had a great love for animals and nature. And when people were disturbing me it was easy to hide in a secluded part of the garden or go to the forest. At least in summer. And there was food and free housing always, and the food was better than here in the city. And the housing also, if we take into account the two houses and the giant garden we had. (Although they were old.)

But I think I have this vison from watching mankind in general. The past was indeed horrendous, if we look at how they were living in the Middle Ages, of which traces still are there in people's minds. (Easily to notice on the countryside, my father was greedy from habit, because he came from a farmer's family in the mountains. And he stayed greedy although he became rich from his business. Not to mention the Catholic stuff.)

And I don't see much of a golden past remaining. I guess that's just a projection. Perhaps there were great times for some of mankind, like kings and priests, but most of us were suffering, from hunger and wars. Even the Stone Age was not so nice as they always say, it must have been pretty cold with all this ice then.

I mean, the wonderful thing happens when I think what mankind can achieve. It's truly possible that we have no worries about our basic needs, that we live in luxury, that there's only little work, and much time left for our self-realization, and all of us are fine people. That's certainly possible for all of us. Perhaps not in five years, but if we don't do it in five thousand years then we're more stupid than expected. And after that there's still some five billion years left to enjoy this way of living, so no need to get into a hurry.

But the main thing certainly is the power of my spiritual development. I have made so many astounding discoveries the last years, and I know when this goes on, which it will, then the future will be so great that I don't even dare to dream it.

I agree very much.
Life in stone and bronce age must have been nightmarish compared with what we have now. Just think of dental treatments without anaesthesia... I also have my doubts about spirituality in these times - spirituality becomes possible when we have a certain degree of safety and luxury, when certain survival issues are resolved, when we can afford to meditate... Running through the mud for days behind a herd of mammuts is probably not the ideal environment for that.

On a personal level I feel that the past and particulary childhood were hell. I cannot understand people idealizing their childhood as a careless and golden time. About the future: I am open to it  . I don´t believe in apocalypse, I don´t believe in the end of the world. I feel we have great possibilities and more than a few problems.

In the course of this discussion it became clear to me that I am not interested to return to Rosseaux´ paradise. I am curious about the spirituality of the future and want to see where the worlds meet.

Here still some rain. Close to my house a swan built a nest close to the river, too close, the water is raising with all the rain and we hope all will go well. A few more days and the chicks will come out.
LOve
PJ

Niminoso,

The recounting of your personal experiences was in beautiful lockstep with the past.

PJ,  I know of von Franz,  I have most of her material.
Her work on fairy tales is a work of genius.
As any evolutionary historian will tell, this life is a Paradise turned Apocalypse on a continuing basis.  There is much scientific evidence to support this.  It is not a collective myth.  Volcanic eruption disturbing the entire world for years, ice age, magnetic moment disturbances indicating the world slips off its axis perodically.  The bulk of our legends and myths indicate this pursuasion.  The latest was about a flood that science estimates to be ~1700 BCE.  About the time of the arrival of ego dominance, in my opinion.
In her estimation, in a personal comment to one of my teachers, she indicated her work on "Number and Time" to be the work most remembered.  She got up to the number four in her analusis in this book.  I would like to share this information.  I think what she and Jung worked on to be seminal in origin.  We must build on this foundation in order to move ahead.
I also believe them to be both complexed, too oriented toward the intuitive thinking stance.  My complex makes me believe they can be surpassed in their discoveries while being honored at the same time.