I believed once that love was a feeling that came from the heart and spread throughout the entire body to fill you with a feeling of euphoria.

I hav always believed that it lasts forever but recently hav stopped and hav decided to enjoy the few offers a spotty teenager gets from NE girl.

Does anyone disagree with this or hav input. This new belief is scaring me with new possibilities of pre-marital sex and other fairly simple things that most people do.

Input requested PLZ help

any 'feeling' is going to be impermanent- if you define love as a 'feeling', dont expect it to last forever

love as a process, can last a life-time

Only you can define what 'love' is for yourself, there are an infinite variety of types of love on this planet.


What is a 'spotty teenager'?

'NE' girl = any girl?

Please rephrase your question.

Nothing wrong with new belief systems... in fact, I recomend trying on as many as possible (beliefs)!!!  Of course fear and discomfort may occur, but that is only a side effect of pushing your limits.  Push gently, and push often! (no pun intended )

I would however, advise that you protect yourself, and be honest and up-front- WHATEVER it is you decide to do relationship/sex wise.  Your young- take things light and easy while you still can.

love is pain.. and true love is the ability to overcome that pain

Love is only pain when it is required to fill a need.

i personally think that love is a strong feeling that can combine between tow hearts !!
and the one who understands the essence of love must share his/her inner feeling with his lover !

True love is the essence of the universe. It resides in all things all actions and thoughts. IT is unconditional.
Human love has conditions relative to programs. What one person thinks is imprtant another could care less about.
Ideally as human beings or within the thought of being mortal flesh we desire to have our thoughts and dreams fulfilled. When the nature of things seem to go against the way we desire then we separate ourselves from the world and others to protect ourselves within our own limited world of expectations and beliefs.
Human feeling love is codependant. Without the things that will make us feel good we get angy, depressed lethargic even aggressive. We try to change the outside world to match our personal desires so that we may find stabilization where we cannot find it within ourselves. We as humans succumb to feelings and let them control our actions all too often.
Life is not complex only as humans do we try to be complex and find ways to justify our own confusion by creating more confusion.
Love is within.
There is a saying," to get more love, give more love."
Ever notice when you are in love the whole world is wonderful? You could stub your toe and think nothing of it.
However, Break up with your boy/girlfriend and life sucks and its not worth living.
The feeling of love drives the vision deeper into the beauty around you, without that vision the world becomes complex, empty and ugly.
No one makes you feel anything. No one can crawl inside you and flip the switches that make you feel what you feel. Impulses to the brain activate chemicals and hormones which create bodily sensations and each impulse is filtered thru the nervous system and its likes, dislikes, habits, memories desires and so forth.
If you believe in the human condition that is reliant on the stimuli that is necessary to make you feel what you need to feel then you are a victim to the world and your surroundings.
There is a wonderful Italian Film called "LIFE IS BEAUTIFUL" with Roberto Benigni. IT is the story of a man who marries a jewish woman just before WWII. They have a child and when the German occupation forces all the Jews into concentration camps he goes with his family even though he is not Jewish and plays a Game with his 5 year old son. The Game he plays is that the Germans are stupid and they must outwit the gemans to prove it. He hides his son in the barracks of the camp and each day brings him food and stories of how he made fools of the Nazis. Keeping his sons spirits up with his constant Joy of life and love for his son he survives the occupation until the very end giving selflessly to his son and his family to keep them alive and hopeful.

Life is simple and it is what you make of it. What you focus on grows. Make believe it is complex and it is that. Make believe you are a victim and you are that. Find the joy of life within you and you will draw others like a moth to a flame with the Love that is within you. Love that cannot be destroyed, love that is eternal and timeless, love that knows no boundaries.

Love does come from the heart. But let the head get in the way and the heart becomes shrouded in thoughts and ideas of limitation and fear. The head with all of its beliefs creates a barrier to the true heart within.

Joe, I still think you are shaping your view of the totality of existence from a very human perspective.

love and sex are too different things mate. if you talking about love, then by accepting the offers from any female and getting laid with them is not making love to them but just having sex as it doesnt involve your heart in between. its just fucking around.
love is something in which you are expected to give and not expect anything in return.
it will be really fun when you get into fucking any female but then when it will come to the final decsion of getting along with one single female then you would stand no where. just think about it....gud luck

hedonist...

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Joe, I still think you are shaping your view of the totality of existence from a very human perspective.

You think you are human therefore you equate all interpretations to your interpretation of human nature.
The totality of existence cannot be contained. Why do I give a description of it?
Why not?

To enliven that which is beyond boundaries is not with the words but with what is behind the words.

 How would you recognise that?
 By knowing That.

Someone once said, "those with the eyes to see and the ears to hear will see and hear."
It's never about the words, they are only subject to interpretation never the force behind them and the creation that springs forth from that.
Perhaps if you stop looking for the meaning you will find the answer to the ultimate question and stop seeing limitation from human perspective.

I would neither try, nor could I contain the entire essence of the universe in any single form but that does not stop me from integrating this reality into that or speak of that. Why would I need to limit myself to anything? Why would you? What form if any does not contain everything that the universe is?

Joe,

A preachy sing song message is Ok to sing to the heavens if that is what your soul demands.  It may have done you a lot of good for your path.  Don't you think that other people have different agendas then you?  What is your background that made you retreat into this one note song?  Now don't you recoil from me, I know I disturb you and make you think that you must maintain your cool to keep your established beach head.  Don't let me torture you in your contempation of the heavens.  If God is with you He will allow you to master this intrusion on your peaceful self centered diatribe.  Maybe He will lift you from these devils that need your inspiration.  If you could only come away with one prize......   But, I volunteered to join you and you wanted me to pay for lunch, what kind of saving is that?   Now don't put on the hair shirt or sit in the cave, I am demon enough for you and if not me there is always Dan.  We will spur you on, you do not need to apply the instruments of torture to yourself anymore.

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Joe, A preachy sing song message is Ok to sing to the heavens if that is what your soul demands.  It may have done you a lot of good for your path.  Don't you think that other people have different agendas then you?  What is your background that made you retreat into this one note song?  Now don't you recoil from me, I know I disturb you and make you think that you must maintain your cool to keep your established beach head.  Don't let me torture you in your contempation of the heavens.  If God is with you He will allow you to master this intrusion on your peaceful self centered diatribe.  Maybe He will lift you from these devils that need your inspiration.  If you could only come away with one prize......   But, I volunteered to join you and you wanted me to pay for lunch, what kind of saving is that?   Now don't put on the hair shirt or sit in the cave, I am demon enough for you and if not me there is always Dan.  We will spur you on, you do not need to apply the instruments of torture to yourself anymore.

Is there something specific you are wanting to understand about your interpretations of me and your ideas about the relationship between us or do you always project useless thoughts onto others regarding your personal feelings?

I am most willing to maintain any relationship you desire. I am your best friend or your worst enemy, it is only your choice.

the magic of Joe's religion is the necessity of proselytization.  When he says "why should I be limited in what I say?" what he means is "I am an eternal blowhard, and if you don't like it then that's your problem!".  

Joe projects himself relentlessly, that is the substance of his salvation

Dan and Joe,

I don't like being told or shamed or guilted into what I should do  I expect reasonableness and clarity and good conversation.  That is pursuasion enough for me.  If your argument is better, more logical or even more musical than mine I will see and change my own mind.  There are too many people with too many schemes in this world that all tell me what I should do.  That is my decision, no one else's.
I like this approach better (lifted from another site):

"Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament,
but afterwards they laugh.

Life leads the thoughtful man on a path of many
windings.

Now the course is checked, now it runs straight
again.

Here winged thoughts may pour freely forth in
words,

There the heavy burden of knowledge must be
shut away in silence,

But when two people are at one in their inmost
hearts,

They shatter even the strength of iron or of
bronze.

And when two people understand each other in
their inmost hearts,

Their words are sweet and strong, like the fra-
grance of orchids."

...commentary on the hexagram, Fellowship ;

...I Ching Wilhelm/ Baynes trans.

Ta Chuan/ The Great Treatise

pgs. 305,306

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the magic of Joe's religion is the necessity of proselytization.  When he says "why should I be limited in what I say?" what he means is "I am an eternal blowhard, and if you don't like it then that's your problem!".   Joe projects himself relentlessly, that is the substance of his salvation

Jeez loweez. Thems pretty harsh words there pard, hope you got a possy to back you up.

I am what I am to who takes time to look.
I can be a blowhard if that's what you want, and do a damn good job of it too!

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Jeez loweez. Thems pretty harsh words there pard, hope you got a possy to back you up.

that's an interesting thing for you to say.  why would I need a posse?  :P

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I am what I am to who takes time to look.

according to your philosophy, how can anybody really know 'what you are'?  ???

QUOTE

I can be a blowhard if that's what you want, and do a damn good job of it too!

the problem is you can be a blowhard even when I don't want it!  :P


8)

QUOTE

that's an interesting thing for you to say.  why would I need a posse?

I was giving you an opportunity to bring backup in so that I might have a reason to give your stress some serious concern. But if it is just your stress then I may not need to give it any concern.

QUOTE

according to your philosophy, how can anybody really know 'what you are'?

According to my philosphy you seem to have a pretty good Idea who and what I am and seem to be pretty sure about it.
e.g. the magic of Joe's religion is the necessity of proselytization.  When he says "why should I be limited in what I say?" what he means is "I am an eternal blowhard, and if you don't like it then that's your problem!".  

Joe projects himself relentlessly, that is the substance of his salvation.

QUOTE

the problem is you can be a blowhard even when I don't want it!

 Sucks to be you? Well I'd say you really have a problem there. I'll try to be more cognizant of when, you are prepared and willing to accept blowhard moments.

QUOTE

I was giving you an opportunity to bring backup in so that I might have a reason to give your stress some serious concern. But if it is just your stress then I may not need to give it any concern.

why would you feel the need to give concern?   ???

QUOTE

according to your philosophy, how can anybody really know 'what you are'?    According to my philosphy you seem to have a pretty good Idea who and what I am and seem to be pretty sure about it. Â

I don't think you understood very well.  I'm not experiencing this knowledge through your philosophy, but through mine.  However, I am still curious how you (implying your philosophy) might explain how anybody else can really know 'what you are'.

QUOTE

Sucks to be you? Well I'd say you really have a problem there. I'll try to be more cognizant of when, you are prepared and willing to accept blowhard moments.

wow, I feel special! thanx  


8)

QUOTE

Dan and Joe, I don't like being told or shamed or guilted into what I should do  I expect reasonableness and clarity and good conversation.

I guess  I should feel sorry for you that you are so easily affected by someones point of reference that it seems to affect you personally. I can only imagine that it must be sheer hell to take a conversation and turn it into an attack. To take anothers point of reference and turn it against you because it isn't yours. Tsk, must be a real bummer when you come across others that have something to say that is not your experience and so easily threatens your experience.
Damn, it is an imperfect world in which we live where free thinking allows us different perspectives in reality.
Where do you suppose it all comes together?

This conversation is about Love. Conditional Love does create so many boundaries and invasions of personal preferences and it does seem to be easily taken away.
Unconditional Love however creates the conditions where all things have some common ground.
It does take an OPEN mind though to allow all things to exist without prejudice and fear.
Who would you allow to show you where you may draw the lines in the sand in limitation and judgment?
God? Some common Joe? Your worst enemy or perhaps your best friend?
I'm sure if there was no limitation or boundary within the scope of your awareness then there would also be no thing that would disturb your creative awareness and everything would be flush with the pure energy of pristine unconditional creativity or pure unconditional Love.
Though the word Love like the word God has many negative connotations to it in the understandings of so many impressionable minds. The words would probably carry impressions of ideas gathered from learned descriptions, books and personal experiences in relationship to those definitions.

It is very difficult to break the paradigms of usual thinking to cross the mundane definitions of usual life and its stresses, relative happiness and sadness, to approach life from someone elses point of view, especially if it doesn't fit into the normal box.

I suppose the most difficult thing of all is to be able to do it without the programmed fear that makes you so susceptible to the presupposed ideas that another is attacking you or forcing your free will into another direction other than your personal desire. To make you FEEL like you are guilty or should be ashamed.
Actually the idea is so fucking ridiculous that anyone should, would or could have the presence of being to overshadow your own, in fact its insane.
Sorry I wasn't trying to shame you or make you feel guilty, I think you do enough of that on your own and without any of my help.

QUOTE

If your argument is better, more logical or even more musical than mine I will see and change my own mind.

I don't know about you but I don't see an argument, only discussions from the perspective of a point of reference. Either from limitation in thinkling feeling and action or from unlimited potential. I don't choose to see limitation but many try to convince me that it is a must and is surely real.

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There are too many people with too many schemes in this world that all tell me what I should do.  That is my decision, no one else's.

Then if it is your decision then why do you continue to perceive others as trying to sway you? Do we live in a universe that is created only to try and change our way of thinking into anothers?
You seem pretty hell bent on insisting that the others with their schemes are a real and constant threat. That is your universe my friend and your own personal hell.
Perhaps you should ask yourself why this is so.

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"Men bound in fellowship first weep and lament,

Gak! those that believe in their own misery look for others to join them in the pit of their own sewer.

QUOTE

but afterwards they laugh

After they realise the fellowship of suffering was born and maintained of ignorance man laughs at the foolishness of their effort to maintain such silliness.

QUOTE

Life leads the thoughtful man on a path of many windings.

Often blinded by their own ignorance they fail to see the forest for the trees, or take the time to see the things that are on the jouney until it is too late. When the seasons of time have extinguished all hope from the constant judgment and fear of the unknown till death is all that is left.

QUOTE

Now the course is checked, now it runs straight again.

When man stops wasting time looking for all the reasons to find and maintain judgment, then the course may run straight and true.

QUOTE

Here winged thoughts may pour freely forth in words,

Once all judgments are dropped then the world may be freely perceived as flowing with the unconditional Love that creates all ideas of contrast to bring forth the One thing that binds all thoughts, feelings and actions together that is the earth and its manifestations in all ideas and perceptions.

QUOTE

There the heavy burden of knowledge must be shut away in silence,

All ideas of the head, surface knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil must be set aside to see the power of the unconditional universal mind that has the ability to manifest and cognise everything imaginable. That universal mind is born of the one pure omniscient silence.

QUOTE

But when two people are at one in their inmost hearts, They shatter even the strength of iron or of   bronze. And when two people understand each other in their inmost hearts, Their words are sweet and strong, like the fra- grance of orchids."

Words of wisdom.
When the two become one, only then can true peace be known. All words then sink back into the oneness of all of creation. Only when one is established in the oneness can the words resonate from the foundation of the infinite rather than the foundation of duality fear and separation.

QUOTE

why would you feel the need to give concern?

It is not a need of mine, I was only referring to your distress in having my blowhardness invade your presence when you were unprepared or unwilling, and  the idea that you might have been trying to say something of importance, rather than just rambling for no apparent reason. But it seems you may be leaning to the rambling without a reason.

QUOTE

I don't think you understood very well.  I'm not experiencing this knowledge through your philosophy, but through mine.

I see, so through your philosophy you come to these conclusions.
 Fascinating.

QUOTE

However, I am still curious how you (implying your philosophy) might explain how anybody else can really know 'what you are'.

That is an interesting Idea.
I Don't think I can sufficiently relieve you of any curiosity about my philosophy when it seems the whole idea is interpreted as my philosophy through your philosphy. That would seem to be the point of this discussion wouldn't it? That all ideas are born of interpretation through the process of the known the knower and the process of knowing. That would mean that nothing can be known from another.
This can only mean we are eternally separate from each other or so intimately connected that we can never be separated other than in illusion.

QUOTE

wow, I feel special! thanx

Don't mention it, this is a topic about love isn't it!?

Joe,
We have gone more than the distance with you.  You arguments are circular.  You do not wish to hear anyone else's opinion and regard it with seriousness.  Your conduct is combative, legalistic and quite boring.  Are you practicing for a debating society and use us for practice?
I have spoken to you about this before.  Now either join in the discussion and stop pontificating or tell me the reason why I should not start eliminating some of your more repetitive posts.

John

Joe,

I have removed your repititious and contentious post.  You are welcome here as long as you stop 'spamming' your religious outlook over and over.  This is a commercial free zone.

QUOTE

why would you feel the need to give concern? It is not a need of mine

well it sure wasn't a need of mine either!  why would you say it for no reason?  was it an accident? was it a 'motive' from god?

QUOTE

I see, so through your philosophy you come to these conclusions.  Fascinating.

'tis a fascinating thought, to think that I am generating my own thought isn't it

QUOTE

However, I am still curious how you (implying your philosophy) might explain how anybody else can really know 'what you are'.   That is an interesting Idea. I Don't think I can sufficiently relieve you of any curiosity about my philosophy when it seems the whole idea is interpreted as my philosophy through your philosphy. That would seem to be the point of this discussion wouldn't it? That all ideas are born of interpretation through the process of the known the knower and the process of knowing. That would mean that nothing can be known from another. This can only mean we are eternally separate from each other or so intimately connected that we can never be separated other than in illusion.

now, let's add some logical analysis and see what we have:

it seems the whole idea is interpreted as my philosophy through your philosphy.

it seems that the above idea is interpreted as my interpretation of your philosophy through my philosophy (see how easy that is? I bet we can do this forever, given enough time and resources....   )



all ideas are born of interpretation through the process of the known the knower and the process of knowing.  That would mean that nothing can be known from another.
This can only mean we are eternally separate from each other or so intimately connected that we can never be separated other than in illusion.

I'm guessing you go with answer #2 so intimately connected that we can never be separated other than in illusion.  I wonder what you mean by in illusion, if we can never be 'really' separate.  If 'illusion' is to be taken as existing, it must be 'real' in some sense.  Thus, if there exists 'separation' in illusion, then 'separation' is real in some sense.  And if it has 'reality' in some sense, then it 'is' in some sense.  And if it 'is' in any sense, then instead of dismissing it is 'illusory' perhaps we should embrace it as 'real'.


when you said
I am what I am to who takes time to look.
you really meant (according to your previous writings) that the idea someone forms through interpreting what they 'receive' from you through their mental constitution and action can be a 'true' image if they try long enough.  What I want to hear is how any 'image' can be 'you' if it is just an interpretation?  And if you are not saying this image can ever be 'you' (only 'illusorally' you), then what does it mean to say that I am what I am to anybody else?  
perhaps we could rephrase what you are trying to say in non-mumbo-jumbo talk, giving us something along the lines of People can maximize the validity of their perceptual image of my actuality if they take the time to receive sufficient information  

which, considering who we are talking about, blows hard

QUOTE

Joe, I have removed your repititious and contentious post.  You are welcome here as long as you stop 'spamming' your religious outlook over and over.  This is a commercial free zone.

Truly predictable