I was wondering what people had to say on the subject on Human Freedoms such as free will, self determination, and individual choice. Are they just an illusion? The issue came up in my college psychology text but I think it is also a philisophical question. The behaviorist B.F. Skinner, in his book Beyond Freedom and Dignity, stated that, "A person does not act upon the world, the world acts upon him." If you view the world as a giant "skinner box" in which from the moment of birth, the environment shapes and determines your behavior through either reinforcing it or punishing it. If this is true then we're no more responsible for the decisions we make then the rat in the skinner box being rewarded with food for pressing a bar. Opinions anyone? :

we were talkin about this here:
http://brainmeta.com/yabbse/index.php?boa...id=2856;start=0

but this is the conclusion i came to:
free will vs. determinism , subjectless universe, objectless universe, meh... its both pointless and fruitless to even think about it this much, or anymore.
remember i mentioned the self refential thing? well godel showed his thing,(the self referential nature of math, ie, you can write formulas that are unprovable) turing came along and showed theres no loigcal/mathmatical/mechanical way to determine which formulas are provable or not.... 'this statement is false' ... 'i have free will'

changing around the definitions doesnt answer anything, theres no way to test or find out, and most importantly in my mind, either way, everything works out the same.

it doesnt matter. when i read, uh i mean my friend, yeah that's it, my friend pinkbear, well when my friend pinkbear reads those trashy romance novels, she gets a kick out of the descritpions of the farmhand's muscles rippling and his bronze skin glistening with sweat in the noonday sun, she heaves right along with the heaving breasts, she's frightened by the danger of the young lovers being discovered by sneaky mcbadguy, she laughs, she cries, even tho the ending is already resolved into a happy one and printed out on the last few pages of the book.
so theres my answer. i decided its really a non question and it doesnt matter.

Hi Ben,

"Human Freedoms such as free will, self determination, and individual choice".

I suspect all three are the same thing, and believe we are free to apply our own will.

However, there are the restrictions of Nature, the limits of 'decency', individual capabilities, and human Law to make it less 'free'. (there are probably other restrictions as well, but you get my point).

By restrictions I include things like having to take account of external events which may well mean we have little choice but to react, unless we want to risk death. But at the end of the day, you can choose to die if you so wish!

Best regards, Bill.

If the body I am given and the world in which I live are not of my own hands...

If freedom is separation, and I am intertwined...

If we became aware of how we make decisions...

Have at it.

-James

skinner is right. if you think about it, of course skinner is right.