While watching LOTR and Star Wars I was trying to figure out why I loved these stories so much. At first I thought it was because the characters and the stories were about something bigger than the everyday life we lead. Saving the world sounds very appealing to many I'm sure. As I thought about it more though I realized that it's not the story that is appealing to me, it is the worlds they live in. I realized my love for these stories came from a hope for this world, that maybe it can be saved. That we could rid the world of evil. Then I realized that sub-consiously I know there was no hope for this world. It is evil along with all of us. The reason I cling to these stories is because I know it is not possible to rid this world of evil, getting lost in others where it is possible is the closest I will get.

Anyone else feel this way?

The names for you Dan...

Evil is the illusion. It is the separation from the conscious Self that creates the illusion of being a victim to outside circumstance.
There is a saying, "Heal the self and you will heal the world"
The appeal to the stories is in the truth that the atira exists. The path of return that was built into the illusion of separation and suffering. It fuels the fires of romantics and the poets.
It creates hope when it seems that there can be none in the stories where the good guy always wins.
The war between the Ego and the holy spirit is real, it is created and supported in the laws of possibility and creation. It can't be won by fighting it and reinforcing its reality but to rise above the illusion of its existence to see a greater reality.
The hearts greatest desire is for Union with the universal principal of life which is without suffering and without boundaries and limitations.
Magic, mysticism, faith, even God are mysteries only to the ego in its illusions of despair and inevitabilty of an unchanging world.
It is the gift that is offered within the illusion to look further than fear and suffering. It is the kick in the pants to do something with your thoughts other than waste time in giving into downward thoughts and realities and to turn towards what is called the survival instinct, which is your inner knowing and faith. It is always stronger than the deepest of despair.
When you are through giving in to the other it is always there.

I like that you have accepted the holy name of 'joesus', but I'll like even more when you register it. >:(

;D

From my conversations with Sol and resulting reading up on m-theory what does anyone (other than dan probably) think to the possibility that we exist in an eleven dimension universe, that science and religion meet at the planck length(a theoretical length where classic physics meets quantum physics 1.6x10[sup]-33[/sup] cm)?

Our pyshical bodies residing as shadows in the 4 dimensions we all know and love, but our spirit resides on another dimension (5th?) and it is that dimension that we can visit through drugs, meditation, etc. and that dimension that we crave to be united with?

Just a quick chime.....

Loved this...

QUOTE

Magic, mysticism, faith, even God are mysteries only to the ego

tis.. ummmm... "quotable'

Brian

I do feel similarly to you. I used to be a huge fan of fantasy literature, specifically all things Tolkien. Traditionally the genre of Fantasy employs fantastical settings and circumstances in order to more accutely depict the epic struggle between good and evil. LoTR, Star Wars, Spiderman, DareDevil, Batman, these are all expirements in the conflict between good and evil. They have such popular appeal, in my opinion, because we all want to believe that good can triumph over evil, that the world can be saved, and that if it is to accomplished, people like you and I must make a difference. It is a fundamentally humanistic message of optimism and hope. Just like religion, it dangles the golden carrot of a better future before us and we embrace these stories with great enthusiasm. But as you have commented, the world is not a simple struggle between good and evil. It is complex and complicated, a multifaceted spectrum of all shades of morality. Reality as a whole is neither good nor evil, it is simply what it is. I think fantasy can be dangerous because it causes so many people to view the world as black and white and to idealize the triumph of good. I consider this a vulgar and ingnorant interpretation of epic fantasy although it is quite often the end for which it was written. Instead I encourage individuals to interpret fantasy not how good can triumph over evil, but as a means by which to understand our definitions of what is good and what is evil.

The question of good vs. evil is a relic of modernity. It's prevalency within our culture is good indication that postmodernism has not entirely depleted its predacessors vitality as many will claim.

PS - JOe's entire life and worldview is a fantasy. Mark that well when you read his comments.

One more thing. If you are inclined to getting lost in a fantasy world where good can triumph over evil, I would suggest virtual fantasy games. Do not take this advice lightly. I am offering you an opiate and if you choose to proceed you will discover that it is a drug in the fullest possible sense.

[quote]PS - JOe's entire life and worldview is a fantasy. Mark that well when you read his comments.[/quote]

Oh Tim, you are an angy man...
The feeling of abandonment is a tough one to deal with.

But it is just a thought....
I had a thought once!

Joesus,

You said

'waste time in giving into downward thoughts and realities '.

Do you really mean that it is a waste of time seeking reality?

Best regards, Bill.

[quote author=rhymer link=board=5;threadid=2628;start=0#msg13585 date=1063240378]
Joesus,

You said

'waste time in giving into downward thoughts and realities '.

Do you really mean that it is a waste of time seeking reality?

Best regards, Bill.
[/quote]

Compromise is a waste of time.
Everything that comes to you is for your growth and if you take it and waste it in compromise then eventually it leads to realization by making another choice, however if one is seeking to enlighten or expand their lives, to compromise and walk away from the goal is a waste of time.

If the person seeking does not know they are seeking a downward path then there is no compromise, just a choice.

If you come to a fork in the road and one path takes you to the goal and the other doesn't and you know this, to choose for the path that leads nowhere is compromise and a waste of time.
If you come to a fork in the road and you have no idea where either lead, then you make a choice and it leads you to wherever it goes and you learn by making choices.

There are ways to train yourself from following downward thoughts in reality and choose for thoughts that bring expansion in reality.
Becoming self aware is this process.

When you say seeking reality I associate seeking what is truth and everpresent, not seeking illusions and fantasy.

Reality depending on the state of consciousness, has its subjective objective experiences.
Sleeping, Dreaming, Waking, Transcendant, Perpetual Transcendant, Exalted, Unified Transcendant, Brahman, Krisna etc.

Joe, why do you spread so much verbal delusion?

You can be every bit as much the anti-joesus as you are the joesus.

No, I just honestly think that you are living in a fantasy world joe. That does not make me an angry person. I also back my statements up with arguments. Most of them are coherent although perhaps a little too condescending and sarcastic. But that is just a characteristic of the debating environment I was weened on. To be effective, you had to argue like that, and I was very effective. You on the other hand, don't supply coherent argument, as so many people on the board have testified to. Consequently you resort to ad hominem to undermine any criticism that you are subjected to. You insinuate that those who disagree with you do so from personal predispositions and not from sound arguments. In my case, you accuse me of hatefulness. Whether or not it is true, it is a personal attack used to to discredit an opposing debaters argument. It is however often effective against those easily sway by emotive appeals. Nontheless, it is considered a horrible and embarrassing debate blunder.

Am I guilty of this too? Some would think so, but I wold respond that any baseless personal attacks I make are strategic provocation, and I would be the first to acknowledge that they have absolutely no relevency to any argument being made.

Not that I expect this to be of any benefit to you. But that's ok, you're probably just schizotypal. How's that for ad hominem?

[quote]From my conversations with Sol and resulting reading up on m-theory what does anyone (other than dan probably) think to the possibility that we exist in an eleven dimension universe, that science and religion meet at the planck length(a theoretical length where classic physics meets quantum physics 1.6x10-33 cm)?

Our pyshical bodies residing as shadows in the 4 dimensions we all know and love, but our spirit resides on another dimension (5th?) and it is that dimension that we can visit through drugs, meditation, etc. and that dimension that we crave to be united with? [/quote]

I am not averse to the idea that there is more to the physical universe than meets the atom-smasher's eye (although Ambient SnowFlake would probably tell me to prove it before suggesting it ). Ultimately, though, any 'structure' that is involved in mind is just a 'brain' even if it is a 10-dimensional brain. The key is, who is the 'subject' that experiences the mind bound by the 'brain'? I see 'mind' as a property of the universe, not an object in it; there is only One. My little twist is that this 'mind' is 'time-division-multiplexed', allowing the One to flit about acting out many roles and thus creating the illusion of Many.
tag, you're It

8)

There see, i knew you were a hippie like the rest of us ;D

For Timmy,
[quote]No, I just honestly think that you are living in a fantasy world joe. That does not make me an angry person.[/quote]
No your anger is not a result of my posts and I never insinuated that.

[quote] I also back my statements up with arguments. Most of them are coherent although perhaps a little too condescending and sarcastic.
[/quote]
You mean like this statement?
[quote]I used to think that you were deluded. Now I just think you're a crackhead. This and rest, but especially this, is pure nonesense. Get off the pipe Joe[/quote]

or this one?
[quote]
Not that I expect this to be of any benefit to you. But that's ok, you're probably just schizotypal.[/quote]

[quote]But that is just a characteristic of the debating environment I was weened on. To be effective, you had to argue like that, and I was very effective.[/quote]

To denigrate the character of another is a defense mechanism. If you were weened on it it was a training to manipulate the surroundings to maintain a superiority
over the other. This is based in fear not in knowledge and union. Your claim represents a training to always maintain your objectivity from superior vantage point.
In a war this is effective and in debating to win this may be effective.

What is it you are trying to win here Tim?

[quote]You on the other hand, don't supply coherent argument, as so many people on the board have testified to. Consequently you resort to ad hominem to undermine any criticism that you are subjected to. You insinuate that those who disagree with you do so from personal predispositions and not from sound arguments.[/quote]

This may be because I'm not trying to create an argument or win any point of view. My truths are Universal and the discussion brings about notice of personal reference points. Your attacks on my character and reason seem to point in the direction of destroying any point of reference I may have in order to leave yours intact. In this case any attack against yourself and your ideas is self inflicted, since I have no interest in what you want to believe in.

[quote] In my case, you accuse me of hatefulness. Whether or not it is true, it is a personal attack used to to discredit an opposing debaters argument. It is however often effective against those easily sway by emotive appeals. Nontheless, it is considered a horrible and embarrassing debate blunder.[/quote]

I am not accusing you of anything, only making reference to your anger that is initiated by your interpretation that I don't play by your rules. Which I don't.

[quote]Am I guilty of this too? Some would think so, but I wold respond that any baseless personal attacks I make are strategic provocation, and I would be the first to acknowledge that they have absolutely no relevency to any argument being made.[/quote]
Again your attacks are a strategy to win something. I have nothing to lose and you have nothing to win. Any frustration would be that you are fighting with yourself.

[quote]Not that I expect this to be of any benefit to you. But that's ok, you're probably just schizotypal. How's that for ad hominem?[/quote]
Well then if it is of no benefit to me lets hope that in retrospect it will be of benefit to you.


For Lazarus who we hope to raise from the dead,
[quote]Posted by: Laz Posted on: Today at 01:08:09am
Joe, why do you spread so much verbal delusion?

You can be every bit as much the anti-joesus as you are the joesus.
[/quote]
Go deeper into your study of the ego and the universal.
There is only one not two!

[quote]Go deeper into your study of the ego and the universal.
There is only one not two! [/quote]

Nice of you to think of me

Whether you admit it or not, you are making an argument and you do have a point of view to advance. Like me, you are trying to prove yourself right, hence your incessant corrections and indoctrination attempts. Obscuring this [b]double standard[/i] in vague and nonsensical language does not wash it away or make it any less apparent to the rest of us.

You accuse me of anger, then deny that you accuse me of anything, then accuse me of anger again, completely oblivious to the fact that you have only your interpretations by which to determine anything about me--a position far short of the universal. But perhaps my reaction to you is a defense mechanism. Perhaps I feel that your kind of thinking is detrimental to society. Anger is not always a symptom of dysfunctionality, although it probably is in your bizzaro world. Anger is a biological development which originated for the benefit of the species. I know that you don't believe in evolution and prefer to think that space aliens planted us on the planet, but alas, you will believe whatever you want to believe and to hell with actual evidence, hmm??

BTW, why did you address me as Timmy? Your choice of words betrays your ego--and it is a big fat one!

Oh my!