ok......so here goes my tid bit on it .....

depression is a proven chemical imbalance in the brain, it is not one's fault nor is it a figment of someones imagination....it can be cured/helped with medication

depression runs very heavily in my family (comming from my Moms side of the family), i have an Aunt that is manic depressive, my great aunt has had shock therapy for it, my mom get's it in bouts here and there....it's kind of a sick joke w/ my Moms family that if you're female your depressive and if you're male you're an alcoholic....it's sick i know, but that is seriously how that side of the family goes.....

so here's my problem,
i no doubt have it-i not only get it in bouts but i can get it for long periods of time also, it can be set off by the littlest thing, or it can just happen and take me over for no apparent reason....
...last summer i was going thru a lot, and my mom found some of my poetry and it scared her-she asked if i wanted to be checked for depression and get meds for it if needed-but i do not like the idea of having to rely on some pill just to make me feel "normal" and happy.

now i have always felt that this was something that i can controll-if i want to be happy i can be, or so i tell myself. i often think that if i had a significant other that i would be happy and no longer depressed b/c i feel a lot of it is due to my immense feeling of loneliness inside-BUT i was w/ someone before and depression still consumed me......

now in the past i have let it get the best of me, i used to cut myself-at the end of this month it will be a year since i have last done it and i DO NOT plan on ever doing it again.....

idk the idea of having to rely on a pill so i can function in my everyday life-seems idk, maybe weak to me, or maybe i'm just scared-i hold nothing against those who do seek help for it and who do takes medication to help-they are the brave ones, i am the coward....

i'm just not sure what to do-i mean i want to just be happy, i have forgotten what happiness feels like.....i want to enjoy my life, lately with everything that's been going on, between this guy playing with my emotions, my Great Aunt being put in a nursing home, and school stressing me out i feel so lost and empty....all i want to do is sleep but when i try i can't b/c i can't stop thinking about everything.

i also think a lot has to do with the fact that i am a very sensative and emotional person however, i don't show my feelings or express myself at all-i hold everything inside as much as i try i cannot seem to change that.  untill not too long ago i couldn't even cry-no that i didn't want to or i wouldn't allow myself to i COULDN'T..i had gone so long with not allowing myself to cry that i physically couldn't do it anymore-that has changed some, but now all i want to do is cry...

there are many times when i am just so sad inside, so filled with darkness and maybe even anger at times and i don't know why-and i hate that b/c my parents will ask what's wrong and i'll say i don't know or nothing and they'll get mad-but i DO NOT KNOW what's wrong, i'm just sad and depressd.  God i can remember crying on Christmas morning once when i was little from being so sad, and i didn't know why, and my mom got mad b/c i was always so sad and she kinda yelled "What is wrong" not yelling b/c she was mad, more or less out of frustration.....i mean wht little kid is sad enough t cry on christmas morning-my parents were always good to us and got us more than what the should have.....when i look at my life and go back to my childhood, i really don't ever see myself as really honestly being happy.


sooo haha, ummm...
anyone have some advise for me-what do you think i should do?.....anyone have the same problem?.......i guess i am just feeling really lost and confused with this, and have been for a while, and am looking for some friendly advise on the subject.

i know that this is really long and i am sorry for that-and i proably just came off as a complete mental case-but any help and/or advise will be much appreciated more than you can possably know

sounds like a good question for Shawn.  What do you (Shawn) know about the effectiveness and long-term effects of medicating for depression?  I've heard some pretty scary stories about stuff like Prozac and Paxil, and I personally feel that the anti-depressent approach is simplistic like trying to fix a wristwatch with a sledgehammer.  

In my opinion, emotional problems like this are a result of emotional trauma (especially during childhood), often passed from generation to generation unintentionally.

My idea, A186, is that you deserve to be with people around whom you feel loved, and that you should demand responsibility and integrity of all those who would like to be a part of your life(especially those who have assumed authority over you, like parents etc...), without compromise.

never lose faith in your own heart, and you will find your way

first off Dan, thank you for reading through all of that  8)

i take it by what you say that Shawn has experience with this maybe?


you kind of said what i have been trying to do-just keep faith in myself and work through this....but it's been 20 years now and i am starting to get scared that maybe i cannot-but giving in to having to take a pill to feel normal is even more scarry to me

Hi Crissy  

I thought I might ask Shawn for his opinion because of his academic specialty, but I suppose a person of his credentials must be extra careful as he could be held accountable for ill advice.  (Sorry, Shawn, I didn't think too hard when I asked)
I am not an expert in this stuff, but my opinion is that anti-depression medication is unlikely to solve problems, and may perhaps create new problems.  I would say that anti-depression medication may be beneficial if used as a short-term solution for acute depressive episodes, but that long term solutions require confronting and resolving the root emotional issues..  I don't want to just shoo you off to a psychiatrist for a quick fix (a real fix is never quick), but you should at least give psychiatrists a try to see if they can offer you some help.  Although pills are popular, psychotherapy has been around awhile and can be highly successful (although it takes lots of time and work).  Don't be afraid to ask questions, or seek more than one psychiatrist's opinions.  Also, don't feel like you have to commit to anything if you don't feel like it.  


as for my take on your situation, I believe that you are fully justified to express any negative feelings toward those who hurt you, until such feelings are resolved.  Those who hurt you owe you back all happiness they took, and you need never feel like you should accept anything less.  

I also believe that the company of friends can lead one to forget pain, because true friends are real family

and I hope for you to become the happiness that you dream of

Hi Chrissy and Dan!

I have a few points to bring out from your conversation here.

First of all, depresion is a chemical imbalance in the brain. If you have depression and medication could fix the impalance, why NOT take the meds. If you have diabetes and need a pill to regulate insulin production, you would not think twice, right? It is society who places a stigma on those of us who need to take anti-depressants. It tok me a LOOOOOOONG time to FINALLY agre to taking anti-depressants. All I can say is that when it gets tot he point that you can NO LONGER function, you may think differently. I could exist feeling crappy and miserable all the time, but when I was visualizing and planning how to end my life, when I could no longer get out of my house, when I was missing work, when I could not get ou to f bed, THAT is whan I finally tried the meds. Hey, it couldn't get worse than that...but, you have to come to your own terms with that decision!

Now, Dan, you said why cant we just take the meds to ward off a "bout" of depression. Well, antidepressants dont work that way. THey take several weeks to a month or even more, to start working. And they must be taken consistantly in order to work. By taking meds, I am not now "fixed" and taking the easy way out. I can now begin to look at the issues in my life and work them out. I can now get out of bed and leave the house to make my therapy appointments. I cna go to work without severe panic attacks stpping me.
And another thing. So even if meds an easy way out, you think being tortured and abused for 18 years was easy? NOPE, not even close my friend! I wish meds cured me, erased my memory and re-programmed my brain, but it isnt that easy. It is just a help to keep me functioning in life.

Ok, so I ranted a bit here, i just wanted to get a few things out. I think medication is a personal decision. If you can manage your depresion without meds, that is fine. When it gets out of control and takes over your life, you may think different. OR maybe it will never get to that point, who knows!

Oh, and Chrissy, I have cut myself since I am 15,  it has been a month now for me since I cut last, congrats on your year!

Hope this post helped clear up a few issues!

Love,
Dara, the not so severely depressed, due t meds!

sorry Dara, didn't mean to put you down or anything  :-/

my reaction is kind of strong because I had to stop my unintelligent stepdad from forcefeeding my 12 year old brother SSRIs.  The usual family disintegration was causing the stress, and my brother was gaining weight, failing in class and making no friends.  My stepdad's solution was drugs, which horrified me.  If my bother missed a dose, my stepdad punished him.  The whole situation sickened me, especially because my stepdad meant well (he's just an idiot). I basically convinced my brother to quit taking them, and he did.  He then began playing team soccer again, lost all the weight, and is earning straight A's in school.  The real problem was emotional, his dad is emotionally weak, intellectually weak and authoritarian (a fundamentalist christian military man) and basically dumped his depression on my brother.  I did the opposite, jazzed things up and talked sh#t, and my brother took.


This is a specific case, though. I believe there is a time and place for SSRIs (or various other antidepressants), as in acute cases where the immediate struggle is overwhelming or where therapy is not fast enough (acute, on the depression timescale, may be months).  I suppose it's easy for me to talk about solving the psychological issues, but in reality psychological issues can be terribly difficult to handle.  That's why I admit it is a good idea to see psychiatrists, they are experts and should be accessed in order to develop a larger gameplan toward finding resolution.

again, I'm sorry if I offed you; I am sort of biased I suppose

ok Fear #1-relying on a pill to feel "normal"

Fear #2-

QUOTE

therapy is not fast enough

seeing a shrink and having them delve into my mind and possably bring up more S**t from my past or something else that is bothering me and give me more crap to obsess over and become more depressed about....i'm 20 years old-i do not want to have my mind dug into and things brought out that i never knew b4 and prob never would have-i don't need anything more to think about....believe me

I hear you

I suppose the best first step is just go talk to a psychiatrist or two, to see what they have to say.  Then you can go from there

yeah i thought about that-well not a psychaitrist but there's a counciling center at my college and i thought about making an appointment-didn't yet.....the year is almost over but i am taking a summer class-not sure as to whether or not it's open durring the summer but it might be-so there is always that .... :-/

i figure if i go there, who knows maybe talking will help-or maybe they can direct me to something else-or ease my fears about all of this at least

Hello Crissy...

I thought you might be interested to know that I suffer from major endogenous depression and free-floating anxiety, quite severe and crippling in both cases, so much so that I am actually regarded by the government as totally disabled.  I find it difficult to leave my house.  I have been taking Zoloft for many years, but it doesn't help.  I took Ativan for the anxiety for many years, but I can't afford it anymore, so I take Valium now; Medicaid covers it.  Medicaid does not cover Zoloft, so I receive it from my physician in a brown bag of physician's samples with my name and a happy face drawn on in magic marker, once a month.  I exercise compulsively; this helps me more than anything else.  I suppose I might as well also tell you that I am anorexic.  I mean, while I'm at it here...  And yes, as you say, it does run in families; I have depression on both sides of my family, right down to the relatives in former times who received electroshock therapy at the county hospital.  The only things which help me are exercise, the love of women, and success as a poet and a composer of a cappella choral motets, that is to say, achievement and success in my field(s).  I certainly wish you all the best, and send you all my love.  I want to thank you for your kind and insightful replies to my poems.  You are a great addition to the site; I wish we had a few more like you here, but you are unique, and I celebrate that.  All my love, respect, and solidarity to you, now and always.  Namaste.

+Steven,

first thank you for not only taking the time to read this and replying, but thank you for sharing your personal information as well

i am dearly sorry to hear that you suffer from so much *hugs to you*

i find that exercise helps a lot too-i often take midnight walks, i play softball all summer also-and my depression became worse after highschool-i was playing basketball in the fall, and softball right after that until the winter-so i had a good outlet.....

QUOTE

I want to thank you for your kind and insightful replies to my poems.  You are a great addition to the site; I wish we had a few more like you here, but you are unique, and I celebrate that.

+Steven, thank you so very much-you are a beautifull person and i am very greatfull to have found this place and all of the people who are here.  You have a kind soul, i can see that, and you do nothing but help others and encourage them, give postive vibes, feelings, words, and emotions....and for that i thank you from my heart-you are an awsome person  8)

Hello,

Seems to be a pervasive symtom of creative, intelligent and good looking people. smile.

I suffered from chronic depression for all my life save the last twelve years.  I usually used some form of always addictive substances to palliate my moods.  Alcohol-always, until I was forced to stop.  Cigarettes, as many as I could stand-3-4 packs a day,  Love addictions and food addictions.  Sometime, wild mood swings, I never knew when the drunk I was on might turn into an unpleasant adventure.  Suicidal thought was an occurance. Work addiction, I was successful throughout most of this, but flat most of the time.  No regular joy, only in short bursts that lasted too short a period.  So, I know and will share what I found out just on a personal level.

Ivan Illich a philosopher says that depression is repressed rage.  It is repressed, so hard to spot at first.

If not a physical desease process (rare), then a result of some insult to the psyche (common, not understood by people whose lives are made easy by the pharmacuetical companies)

Pills, use 'em, if the consequences are  more severe than taking the pills, be practical.  Continue to look for an underlying cause.

I went to six psychiatrists/analysts before I found the guy that could do something about my difficulties.  he was the first one that told me he would not do anything for me, I had to do most of the work myself.  He would just assist.  This technique he used was dream analysis.  He was in the direct oral lineage of Carl Jung.  I became his apprentice as well as his analysand/client and I also attended school to become a dream analyst.  I did not receive my certification.

This was in the early ninties, after having a full career.
I now have a group of people that practice these techniques in their lives, about sixty in all.  I don't charge, since I believe this belongs to all of us.  I have been envolved in this type of study for some time now and will share it, but do not feel compelled to unless desired as I don't have an inclination to write.

There is also a man who claims to have discovered a shortcut to helping.  His name is Griffin, he is in England and has written a book.  Some people in the trade are saying his methods work and are legitimate.  I'll look up the references if anyone would like.

There is a lot more, but I don't want to launch into a flood of words, if this is not desired.  I only offer this on an anecdotal level as I am not a therapist.
John

I like what you said, Synch, about the repressed rage.  My experience with depression is that it is often a consequence of institutionalized emotional rape, usually initiated when we are young and sustained by fear and habit.  It is not so much a case of repressed rage as it is a case of imprisonment.  When one finally escapes such imprisonment, one is employing rage in order to destroy the bondage.

I liken the situation to the vampire archetype.  The source of the drain is the 'head' vampire, who gains access to one's lifeforce by taking advantage of one's kindness, and who maintains ownership through shameless manipulation.   This wounds and weakens, and other 'minor' vampires come and join in.  One is then literally dying to supply life force to many greedy and merciless beings, drained of life and self-esteem because of kindness and/or fear.  One may spend their whole life being abused by one 'minor vampire' after another, never able to find freedom because of the inability to find the strength necessary to resist.  

The only way out is to identify who current and potential vampires are, and to hate and resist them fully and relentlessly until the last one is gone.  Usually, one will find the 'master' vampire or vampires to be especially difficult to remove, because they will always appeal to one's greatest weakness: kindness.  

One must become a warrior if one wishes freedom  >:(

this is the archetypal picture, it describes what is really happening in the intangible yet real realm of feeling

Dan,
OK, Let's do this together, may be this is the gust of wind.......  You have a good grasp of some of these matters. May be others will join us later.
You said:
"I like what you said, Synch, about the repressed rage.  My experience with depression is that it is often a consequence of institutionalized emotional rape, usually initiated when we are young and sustained by fear and habit.  It is not so much a case of repressed rage as it is a case of imprisonment.  When one finally escapes such imprisonment, one is employing rage in order to destroy the bondage. "
Yes, I don't know why you said 'institutionalized' emotioal rape, because most of these traumas occur in the 'average' dysfunctioal family.
Everything else you said was right except the imprisonment occurs within the traumatized child's head.

Next:
I liken the situation to the vampire archetype.  The source of the drain is the 'head' vampire, who gains access to one's lifeforce by taking advantage of one's kindness, and who maintains ownership through shameless manipulation.   This wounds and weakens, and other 'minor' vampires come and join in.  One is then literally dying to supply life force to many greedy and merciless beings, drained of life and self-esteem because of kindness and/or fear.  One may spend their whole life being abused by one 'minor vampire' after another, never able to find freedom because of the inability to gain the necessary strength.  The only way out is to know who the vampires are, to hate them fully and relentlessly, and to fight all the way untill the last one flees.  One must become a warrior to do this, and to become a warrior is a way of that is permanent."

OK, Now I understand you.  You are using the metaphors of the Toltecs as used by Carlos Castaneda.  I am familiar with these symbols as I have done cross cultural studies of a number of cultures to see the similairity of structure in core belief systems, actually  Numinoso is an expert in this field.  Perhaps he will join us.  The vampires are images of underlying energies that exist in our unconscious that the dream I mentioned contains.  Just to re-emphasis, these are images that require interpretation of this complex story that unravels to tell us the situation of our dilemma and how to change it.   Just because we use a certain form of language, the central issue is the child not being loved or recognized for its original personality.  Then a substitution of personalities occurs that initially protects the child from injury, but later stays in place and insulates the child from its own life.  That is the cause of the symtoms we discuss here.

You further said:
this is the archetypal picture, it describes what is really happening in the realm of spirit, which lies just under the illusional surface of everyday appearance."

How did you know this very important fact?  This view is the view of the Toltec Nagual.  A view supplied by the genius within that can be turned on.

And last:
the full price of freedom is to embrace one's dark side, as it is the very denial of one's darkside that makes one vulnerable in the first place"

Again, this is correct.  The missing ingredient is the ego is weaker than the archetypes that reside in the unconscious and must team with the maker of the dream.  This is not a difficult feat, it only sounds strange, but like with everything else in this process there is surprise followed by, "I knew that".
The ego cannot take on this task alone, it however, must cooperate with the genius within the dreamer by willing the dreams to occur and then getting the strange language interpreted, it is like learning a symbolic language.  It is not difficult only taking the will to learn yur own internal language.  I only act as interpreter initially until the language is learned.

I don't know if this interests the others here, if not we could move off and establish another thread.
Best,
John

 

Syn,

your dream alalysis is intersting-i haven't been dreaming much lately though-however when i do-it is likely for me to dream about others dieing, had a dream that i once killed my uncle-that a friend killed herself during a soccer game as i watched on tv-that a stranger, whom i was to busy to talk to earlier, later killed herself......lately-anything i dream usually has to do with a guy that i'm ....well you know how that goes.....


the repressed rage-needing to find the source.....all this is leading me to believe that not matter who i talk to about it and what i do-in then end it will all lead back to my "father", i was hoping that this wouldn't happen.....but if depression is hereditary, isn't there a chance that it is not due to him......or maybe it's a combination of both....

Crissy,
Nice to hear from you.  I was beginning to suspect there was something wrong with me.  (haha)

It is no longer my dreaming, it is yours.  Look at this with me:
"your dream alalysis is intersting-i haven't been dreaming much lately though-however when i do-it is likely for me to dream about others dieing, had a dream that i once killed my uncle-that a friend killed herself during a soccer game as i watched on tv-that a stranger, whom i was to busy to talk to earlier, later killed herself......lately-anything i dream usually has to do with a guy that i'm ....well you know how that goes....."
Everything in this type of dream is about you.
The above images represent underlying events that are occuring in your own psyche-psyche, nothing more than a fancy name for the entire contents of the conscious and unconscious worlds within.
Your associations are the key to unlocking the meanings of the symbols.
What do you associate with your uncle?  Whatever this aspect is, is the part to be killed and is related to your problem.  To kill in dreams is to get out of its place of dominence.
The girl that you watched getting killed was the same thing but a part of you original self that has been isolated in consciousness.  Soccer probably refers to the physical sensate world.  So, what happened to you was some part of your physical world was modified by a part of your femininity getting trampled on as a child (usually the case, but could occur at any time)
A TV is the witness aspect.  Your viewing of this unconscious materiel and your understanding it will lead to the reduction of your problems.
Everything in dreams is metaphor.  Your boyfriend if sex is involved is a part of you that requires integration.  That is what sex in dreams is-integration.  Going to the bathroom is just relief and is very common in the process.  If you are to go through with looking at dreams the first thing to realize you are not responsible for their contents.  A 'healing' program inside you is the responsible agent.
Just consider it at first like an immune system response of the mind.
It is not important that what I say is correct, but your understanding of what is occuring that is the transforming catalyst.  My interpretations are just mirrors for you to decide what is correct and what is not.
This is the way to turn on your inner genius.  Take no advice from anyone else, including me.  Your genius is the only one to listen to.
You need to make no judgements as what to do as the dream process will advise you first.
The first dreams are the toughest as our ego is threatened and advises all sort of negative stuff:  "This doesn't mean anything", etc.
How does that sound?
John

Hey Synch

I'm pretty good at this archetype thing, eh?  

You asked what I meant by 'institutionalized', I meant that the person who starts the 'raping' is also setting the stage such that they can continue the 'rape' indefinitely.  That's the institutionalization, or the bars of the 'imprisonment'. People will set up such 'institutions' as a matter of predatorial instinct, and after many years will consider their claim on the victim as a right.  Literally, the rapist feels entitled to continue the rape, as if it were a moral position.

I like to emphasize that this 'rape' is one of 'spirit/feeling' (for lack of better words), and is not necessarily limited by ordinary physical constraints (the link is best identified in feeling, not in external appearance).  The evidence that one is being 'raped' in this way lies in one's visualizations.  If feelings of violation are accompanied by thougts or visions of a person, then that person is responsible in some way.  Continued visualization can uncover the intentions and methods of the violator, allowing for a decisive action.   These visuals are showing the meaningful connections, and should be trusted above all other evidence.

example:
A parent intentionally crushes the spirit of a child for whatever reason (usually the parent is him/herself a victim of another and requires 'compensation', this is the hereditary nature of such abusive lineages).  The parent then teaches the child to believe that the feeling is 'normal', so that the child will become accustomed.  This enables the parent to maintain the action for the rest of their life.  The child believes such feelings are 'just the way things are', and never fully realizing just how they are being used by the parent.  If, after the child has grown up, (s)he wishes to stop the drain, most likey (s)he will be mislead and not learn the true source, attributing the problem to other sources or causes (such as popular psychological explanations, or maybe simple physiological causes), thus no real cure is ever found.  If the person is able to home in on the feelings for the parent, the 'superego' creates a challenge, where feelings of guilt or wrongdoing accompany the visualizations. (this is the strongest source of security for the parent, they can rely on the myth of 'respecting parents').  If the child is not deterred by pop-myth or superego, a direct insult or attack by the parent is the final barrier.  If the child can withstand all this and eject the parent from their spirit/feeling, they have identified the starting point from which to ground themselves.  This is when a whole new age of learning begins, bucause it is from here that the child must grow up.  





the advantage in such situations always lies with the parent, but the most powerful move lies with the child.   The parent owns the child because of the child's early vulnerability and later feelings of responsibility, but the child can reject as much as desired until no longer owned by anyone.



killers of spirit/feeling are everpresent, always seeking entry through our kindness and fear.  To assume that a parent could never do such a thing is to risk a fatal error

hmmm.....

well......idk-this is all kind of confusing to me....i'm going to try and expand on my dreams here-lol

the Uncle i drempt of-i have a good relationship w/ him, he's married into the family on my Dad's side.....never had a problem with him-...ok so the dream-i had killed him at my grandmother's house on my Mom's side of the family-after i had done it i ran away and took a walk around the block, i remember feeling really sad and afraid for what i had done; i walk back to the house to see my Uncle being taken out of the house coverd in the stretcher-but as i walk up to the house, the uncle i killed was standing there and i said hi to him and felt really confused-that's all that i remember.....

ok the dream w/ my friend killing herself in the soccer field an the stranger killing herself were all in the same dream-so let me try and get al of this out...

ok i was at a party type event, informal...not in a familiar place, close to the outdoors....i remember mingling with some people-and firl had come up to me and we began talking, then i went on and mingled some more, then she came back but i said i couldn;t talk, she said that she wanted me to have her ring and so i took it-....then i remember seeing a friend of mine whom i work with and had gone to school with...when i learned that the girl had killed herself this guy told me, and i remember him beign there and like a security guard-kind of at the bottom of a stair well and i remember upon hearing this that i threw up-then he told me that Danielle was goign to kill herself-so we went up the stairs where there was a room on the roof of the building w/ a tv in it-everyone was watching tv and my guy friend was sittin gkind of infront of me-i was trying to see the tv when i heard everyone gasp-then i saw the tv and saw my friend had shot herself in the middle of the soccer field-that's all i remember


the dreams about this guy (not the same guy as mentiond above-the one above is just a friend) ...this guy is not a "boyfriend" however we are intimate w/ eachother... i think i dream of him a lot b/c i am always thnking of him-we aren't officially together and i want to be, i don;t know how he feels for me really but i Love him....my dreams are usually just me and him together, some are sexual, some are just cuddling and holding eachother, some he's just around, and some we are doing things together


idk if any of this means anything-i'm kind of comfused about all this dream stuff-i have some weird dreams

i once had a dream that i was in prison for prostitution-at the tim ei was still a virgin, and let me tell you i am the least likely person to be a prostitute-but i remember that if i donated blood every hour that i could get out early---i have heard that dreaming of prison means that you feel emotionally trapt, and at the time i was......but lately-i haven't been sleeping enough to dream ....

hey Crissy

I just saw that you posted, I've been 'editing', trying to clear up the idea I'm presenting.  My MO is to post, then spend about 10-15 minutes reading/rereading and editing.  Hope this isn't a problem

I just read your dreams, sounds chaotic.  The key images to pay attention to are the images of who is hurting you.  The images of you hurting others is just a reflection of your need to recover your losses and the inability to hold accountable those who are guilty of putting you in this position.  
I've had some pretty horrifying dreams myself, but they are just dreams.  What matters most is what you do in real life, over time.



p.s., I just changed the middle of the 2nd paragraph.  I said 'bad feelings' accompanied by visualization, I meant those 'bad feelings' as feelings of being violated in some way by the person in the visualization, not feelings of being guilty of violating the person.  I suppose feeling guilty of violating a person in a dream could indicate intentions at some level, but these intentions need not be acted out in real life if one believes they are not justified.

haha not at all Dan...i'll go back and re-read  8)

Interesting.....

by what you said there can be not only one "vampire" but there can be many throughout our lives....and by me being a kind person who ingeneral gives people the benifit of the doubt, puts my feelings on the line often, is always there ready and willing to help-i make myself very voulnerable to the vamipres in the world......

in all reality many of the people i am in contact with can be seen in this way...idk.......i like your interpretation, i guess it doesn't sit well w/ me b/c of the way i am-by being myself, i allow and give everyone the chance to have this power over me

but could that really be the underlying reason and source for my depression?....just by being me..idk-this is all very confusing

it sounds like you are trying to be a good person, and you don't want to stop.  It also sounds like you are having problems identifying sheep from wolves, and you are feeling a bit overwhemed.  I'm not too sure what to do about, either.  
I'm guessing that you are much too kind, and that you probably should cut back on the charity for now.  The best way to help the world is to first become a force in the world, and you can't become a force if you are busy keeping everybody happy.

you're a 100% correct....i worry too much about making others happy-and i forget about myself while doing that....maybe i need to just be a tinsy bit selfish for once and stop trying to make everyone else happy-b/c what good is that if i am not happy inside....so yeah-i guess that maybe i need to concentrait on me a little more

thanks Dan  8)

Dan, fine advice as Crissy indicates.  I think you have a rare and exceptional view of things going on in the psyche.  I am trying to put Crissy in touch with her nagual.

Crissy,  I'm not in competition with anyone.  The ego is intellectual and does not carry the power to transform.  All the advice from anyone is in your best interests.
However, and here is the however, we are going to a place that this program inside you will carry more weight in the transformation process then any outside advice or book could accomplish.  Please take Dan's advice and use it to best advantage or anyone else's for that matter.  Do not put it the same level as your internal instructions.  If you agree, and it is not necessary to agree with me, tell me.  i will continue then to put you in touch with your own genius.
Thanks,
John

I think I should make one more point, the distinction of 'real' life

to me, real life is manifest both in the ordinary 'external' sense and in my feelings.  To do something in real life can include both ordinary action and visualized action, where the importance lies in feeling.  Visualized action would be a representation of action that is occuring at deeper levels, reflecting ongoing 'spiritual' struggle.  Intention is the key, it is the judge of action at all levels.  If one is perceiving an action that one does not intend, then one is not responsible.  One is only responsible for that which one intends.

 
The struggle to achieve freedom involves taking full responsibility for one's intentions (one can change through choice), and trusting what one sees through feeling as more than one's imagination.

8)

Dan i completely understand what you are saying


Syn,
i'd love to keep going with your route and see where that takes me and what i can learn aoubt myself from it-however, i don't think i'm going to be around too often for a while as school is almost out and i am heading home this friday-and seems i have it backwards, i am on the computer more at school than i am at home  :-X i do thank you for the insight though, it is much appreciated  8)

Hello, I'm rather new here, but Depression is a topic I am familiar with, so I thought I'd share my view and story.

I am diagnosed with manic depression type 1, and I can say that the depressive states are probably as close to the meaning of hell as my highs are to the meaning of heaven, and these episodes have lasted for months and months on end..  and I have to say that lithium did give me some balance, and for me it works, And can now live a better quality of life , without fear of what I would do while manic or depressive,  I lost a sister  to suicide at the age of 16 , and there is a good chance she also was a manic depressive ,I can not take any type of anti depressant medication because it sends me into a manic state or a depressive state,

However I would also say that any physciatrist that diagnoses you , gives you meds and then sends you walking , without a type of councelling is not a good doctor.

Considering the genetics, and biological factors, i believe councelling is equally important as the medication.

So I believe depression is not something you should take lightly, and i feel for everyone that has this type of cloud covering effecting their view of life.

What has helped me while in the throws of a depressive state,  ( before  I was medicated)

1)  Identifiying - "knowing" this attack on my brain will pass
2) keep doing my regular routine
3) reach out and do something for someone else , keeping the focus on other , instead of me
4) write and write and write...... hope !


Tis truly a beautiful day is it not?
Upon a breast of dawn
Especially after a dark night
When those clouds were in sight
and the darkness rolled on and on

Good topic , thx for posting it :-)

happy2cu2,
sorry that i just saw this-

thank you for telling your experience-i have decided lately that i am going to go to the counseling center at my College-there i can talk to a professional about the way i feel...see what he/she says and thinks-they won't just hand me pills and send me on my way-their main priority is counseling and talkign things out, getting the person to a point of understanding it all......i just need to get the courage to talk to someone face to face about this

again thank you for sharing your experience-and sorry i didn't catch this sooner

Hi Apathy,

You are not only lonely on the inside - you are seeking too!

And, I for one, wish you all the best as I take my holiday here in Spain!

Best regards, Bill.

you are not alone, reading your original post was like reading about my life. I feel many of the same emotions. It seems I live my life for everyone around me, I don't even know who I am or what I want anymore. I worry beyond belielf, some nights it consumes me. I've not been a happy person for a while now but I fake it almost every day. I strive to find the people or things that will make me happy rather than looking inside to find them in me. I take 2 different types of medication and for the most part they take off the edge. Trying to get my husband to understand that he is not the cause or the reason for my depression is a real job. He can't believe that I just am, something he has no control over.

Hi sneakapeek,

If you don't mind me asking. what meds are you taking just now?
I have endogenous depression, the type that is caused by no known external cause ie., internally caused, and have found antidepressants can get rid of worries, or allow you to cope with them, and reduce anxiety. Not all of them work the same way though, and some can wind you up terribly. I ask the question to see if another med might be better for you!
I tried 6 or so before finding the one that was right for me - it really is more or less experimental, though there are some general rule-of-thumb relationships between relaxant types and stimulatory types.

All the best, Bill.