hello everyone,
at the request of some, I've created this board with the intention of informing others and initiating spirited discussion about the possibility and ramifications of an impending Singularity. Â So, just what exactly is the Singularity? Well, hopefully the posts in this thread will go some way in defining what the Singularity is and introducing the subject to newcomers.
take care,
Shawn
Full Version: Introduction to the Singularity
The Singularity is a common matter of discussion in transhumanist circles. There is no clear definition, but usually the Singularity is meant as a future time when societal, scientific and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective, and when humanity will become posthumanity. Another definition of Singularity denotes the singular time when technological development will be at its fastest. Of course, there are some who think the whole idea is just technocalyptic dreaming.
A Song for the Changing Time
Who can understand
The ancient ones?
Who could understand
The ancient ones?
Who can speak
With the ancient ones?
Who could speak
With the ancient ones?
The flute player
Was the messenger
Between the worlds.
I used to hear
The people singing.
Even modern "Indians"
Couldn't understand
Why they hear the sounds
Of people singing.
Songs
Ancient songs,
Coming through the night,
Especially if they lived
Around me for very long.
Nervous people!
Songs of sadness,
Songs of joy,
Songs of life,
and death.
Songs traveling
through the Land and air.
Now I hear the flute player,
And I don't understand
his words.
Words of musical notes
Whisling through
My inner mind.
What does it mean
To walk your sacred land
And see it filled
With cement?
Holy places
Filled with cement?
What does it mean
When a young/old man
Seemingly familiar,
Yet,
A stranger
Runs up to you,
he shows you an object -
And introduces you
To yourself.
You meet an old man
You hope he is wise
He backs away
In recognition
And
In fear.
Repeating,
Endlessly repeating,
Oh!
No!
I've been a good Christian
For thirty nine years!
What does it mean
To lose your children?
You have lost your future.
What does it mean
To have your past erased?
And,
To lose your children?
Mere existance.
What does mere existance mean?
You don't count anymore.
Coyote and Raven
Are drunk!
They are in mourning.
Their way of life is dying.
"I am a traditionalist."
They tell everyone they meet.
They are drunk with pain.
Death is grasping at their cloaks.
Coyote and Raven
Are drunk
they are in mourning.
What does it mean
when you know
You've given a ride
To Coyote and Raven?
While traveling
Nice fat Raven says;
"My cornfields need rain.
We haven't had any rain
In such a long time.
Dance for me.
If it doesn't rain soon -
My cornfields are gonna die!"
And
Coyote,
He says; "Shut up!"
Coyote gets confused
He shakes his head,
He spouts nonsense.
And then,
Shaking his head
With a shiver, he says:
"I wish I could talk sense to you!
He climbs out of the car
And he stands there
Just outside my door,
My window is only partially ajar.
He asks me where I live.
He asks me for my address,
I say I haven't any
And ask him for his.
And then he knows -
Thay I know him.
I shake his hand and say
"Have a good heart.
We bless you."
He slowly backed away
To sit under a tree
With only Raven
For company.
We,
The people of the North
Have a prophecy that says;
"When all the earth smells like roses,
It is the changing time!"
And
Here I am.
Smelling of roses.
My Mother smells roses,
My Husband smells roses,
My children smell roses,
Whenever they're around me.
I smell roses now too.
I used to smell sage
And frankincense.
I wish it were roses,
Real roses,
Wild roses,
Bending in the wind.
~Theresa~
Who can understand
The ancient ones?
Who could understand
The ancient ones?
Who can speak
With the ancient ones?
Who could speak
With the ancient ones?
The flute player
Was the messenger
Between the worlds.
I used to hear
The people singing.
Even modern "Indians"
Couldn't understand
Why they hear the sounds
Of people singing.
Songs
Ancient songs,
Coming through the night,
Especially if they lived
Around me for very long.
Nervous people!
Songs of sadness,
Songs of joy,
Songs of life,
and death.
Songs traveling
through the Land and air.
Now I hear the flute player,
And I don't understand
his words.
Words of musical notes
Whisling through
My inner mind.
What does it mean
To walk your sacred land
And see it filled
With cement?
Holy places
Filled with cement?
What does it mean
When a young/old man
Seemingly familiar,
Yet,
A stranger
Runs up to you,
he shows you an object -
And introduces you
To yourself.
You meet an old man
You hope he is wise
He backs away
In recognition
And
In fear.
Repeating,
Endlessly repeating,
Oh!
No!
I've been a good Christian
For thirty nine years!
What does it mean
To lose your children?
You have lost your future.
What does it mean
To have your past erased?
And,
To lose your children?
Mere existance.
What does mere existance mean?
You don't count anymore.
Coyote and Raven
Are drunk!
They are in mourning.
Their way of life is dying.
"I am a traditionalist."
They tell everyone they meet.
They are drunk with pain.
Death is grasping at their cloaks.
Coyote and Raven
Are drunk
they are in mourning.
What does it mean
when you know
You've given a ride
To Coyote and Raven?
While traveling
Nice fat Raven says;
"My cornfields need rain.
We haven't had any rain
In such a long time.
Dance for me.
If it doesn't rain soon -
My cornfields are gonna die!"
And
Coyote,
He says; "Shut up!"
Coyote gets confused
He shakes his head,
He spouts nonsense.
And then,
Shaking his head
With a shiver, he says:
"I wish I could talk sense to you!
He climbs out of the car
And he stands there
Just outside my door,
My window is only partially ajar.
He asks me where I live.
He asks me for my address,
I say I haven't any
And ask him for his.
And then he knows -
Thay I know him.
I shake his hand and say
"Have a good heart.
We bless you."
He slowly backed away
To sit under a tree
With only Raven
For company.
We,
The people of the North
Have a prophecy that says;
"When all the earth smells like roses,
It is the changing time!"
And
Here I am.
Smelling of roses.
My Mother smells roses,
My Husband smells roses,
My children smell roses,
Whenever they're around me.
I smell roses now too.
I used to smell sage
And frankincense.
I wish it were roses,
Real roses,
Wild roses,
Bending in the wind.
~Theresa~
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the Singularity? Different people mean different things by this term. For me, the Singularity refers to the point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.
My usage of the term "Singularity" is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the consciousness Singularity because it's beyond our cognitive (or imaginative) capabilities.
Imagine, if you will, what a monkey would experience if suddenly it's consciousness became like that of a human. Before the transition, the monkey would be incapable of imagining what it's like to be human simply because it's beyond it's cognitive capabilities. In the same way, I believe our species will undergo such transitions in our consciousness of such magnitude that we cannot even begin to imagine what these new states of consciousness are like.
At the Singularity, history as we know it, will cease. The universe, as we experience it now, will cease. Consider the most transcendent and mystical states of consciousness that have yet been experienced by mankind: these will pale in comparison with what's to come! This is the Singularity. And there won't be just one Singularity, but many, as consciousness overcomes and transcends itself, over and over again.
Our consciousness will be expanded beyond the confines of an egocentric sense of self to include transpersonal experiences and transcendent self-identity. This new existence will be both a form of collective consciousness and a form of expanded individual consciousness. Though sounding like a contradiction, realize that these two descriptions of transcendent consciousness are really two sides of the same coin. The Singularity is so far beyond our experience and knowledge today that we cannot even begin to comprehend it, unless we ourselves experience transcendent states of consciousness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This I find interesting in a Max Steel Extreme Way. Is this Singularity that you speake of going to happen soon? How soon would you say?
I could easily see this happening soon. As time ends not; our progression in science and technology is increasing fast and will not stop until we find what we as human beings cannot help but search for in one way, expression, or another; ourselves. This drive of progression, powered by both fear for survival and, curiosity, will no doubt lead us to this Singularity. This progression is, in fact, to be expected, for we humans are unique in that we are the most advanced product of evolution,that we know of, able to conceptualize far greater things in life than any other creature on earth. What was considered imposible 50 years ago is now common place, we as humans seem to have no boundaries to what we may accomplish, other than those we create. The first creature to be able to choose it's own limitations, i'm more than impressed to be certain.
By what means do you think we will meet the end of this Singularity? Neuroscience? If it's not to much trouble, could you be specific as to how you think we will accomplish this goal as a species? Or is it simply beyond explanation for the moment because of time and change? Do you think that this transition will happen semotaniously throughout diferent areas on earth? Or is this Singularity going to take place because of scientific means and therefor not happen for everyone at the same time? Are you talking about evolution or science? Of corse science is a part of evolution but could you specify on this when you have the time? I would apreciate it very much.
What is the Singularity? Different people mean different things by this term. For me, the Singularity refers to the point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.
My usage of the term "Singularity" is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the consciousness Singularity because it's beyond our cognitive (or imaginative) capabilities.
Imagine, if you will, what a monkey would experience if suddenly it's consciousness became like that of a human. Before the transition, the monkey would be incapable of imagining what it's like to be human simply because it's beyond it's cognitive capabilities. In the same way, I believe our species will undergo such transitions in our consciousness of such magnitude that we cannot even begin to imagine what these new states of consciousness are like.
At the Singularity, history as we know it, will cease. The universe, as we experience it now, will cease. Consider the most transcendent and mystical states of consciousness that have yet been experienced by mankind: these will pale in comparison with what's to come! This is the Singularity. And there won't be just one Singularity, but many, as consciousness overcomes and transcends itself, over and over again.
Our consciousness will be expanded beyond the confines of an egocentric sense of self to include transpersonal experiences and transcendent self-identity. This new existence will be both a form of collective consciousness and a form of expanded individual consciousness. Though sounding like a contradiction, realize that these two descriptions of transcendent consciousness are really two sides of the same coin. The Singularity is so far beyond our experience and knowledge today that we cannot even begin to comprehend it, unless we ourselves experience transcendent states of consciousness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This I find interesting in a Max Steel Extreme Way. Is this Singularity that you speake of going to happen soon? How soon would you say?
I could easily see this happening soon. As time ends not; our progression in science and technology is increasing fast and will not stop until we find what we as human beings cannot help but search for in one way, expression, or another; ourselves. This drive of progression, powered by both fear for survival and, curiosity, will no doubt lead us to this Singularity. This progression is, in fact, to be expected, for we humans are unique in that we are the most advanced product of evolution,that we know of, able to conceptualize far greater things in life than any other creature on earth. What was considered imposible 50 years ago is now common place, we as humans seem to have no boundaries to what we may accomplish, other than those we create. The first creature to be able to choose it's own limitations, i'm more than impressed to be certain.
By what means do you think we will meet the end of this Singularity? Neuroscience? If it's not to much trouble, could you be specific as to how you think we will accomplish this goal as a species? Or is it simply beyond explanation for the moment because of time and change? Do you think that this transition will happen semotaniously throughout diferent areas on earth? Or is this Singularity going to take place because of scientific means and therefor not happen for everyone at the same time? Are you talking about evolution or science? Of corse science is a part of evolution but could you specify on this when you have the time? I would apreciate it very much.
Theresa, I enjoyed that very much, that I did. Thank you for sharing it with me. Do you have any more pieces on this site?
hello Karl,
you have brought up some excellent questions. Let me try my hand at some answers.
The consciousness singularity will happen soon. I would estimate within the next couple of decades, but this is so unpredictable... it could be within the next couple of years, it could be within the next couple of centuries.... all that is known is that it inevitably will be (a few of us will make certain of this).
Neuroscience will provide the key that unlocks the door onto transcendent states of consciousness leading up to the singularity. Our brain is an instrument and our consciousness, as we experience it, is the music that it produces. By learning to play this instrument through the development of neuroscience, we will learn to create such melodies as we cannot currently comprehend or envision.
As to whether the consciousness singularity will be the product of science or evolution, well, I would say it's both, and more. It is the Universe more fully awakening to Itself. Human consciousness is currently but the Universe in a half-sedated, half-asleep state. But the Universe will soon awaken to Itself and realize the next level of consciousness.
I could speculate on how the consciousness singularity will be brought about. It will be a technological feat that will involve the application of neuroscience-derived principles to the manipulation of our human brains. Whether this application will be limited to one, a few, many, or all people, is anyones guess. Probably all that we need is for one individual to experience this consciousness singularity, and then all or many of the answers will be open to that individual, including how to realistically transform and expand other people's consciousness so that they too, will experience and be a part of this consciousness singularity.
This transition will not happen simultaneously across the globe. It will happen to one or a few individuals first, and then it will likely spread like wildfire across the globe to consume this world in its flames. At that point, mostly everyone will be awakened from the illusion that more than 99.9999% of the world is currently unknowingly trapped in, and we will all realize and directly experience truths that we cannot even begin to imagine now.
you have brought up some excellent questions. Let me try my hand at some answers.
The consciousness singularity will happen soon. I would estimate within the next couple of decades, but this is so unpredictable... it could be within the next couple of years, it could be within the next couple of centuries.... all that is known is that it inevitably will be (a few of us will make certain of this).
Neuroscience will provide the key that unlocks the door onto transcendent states of consciousness leading up to the singularity. Our brain is an instrument and our consciousness, as we experience it, is the music that it produces. By learning to play this instrument through the development of neuroscience, we will learn to create such melodies as we cannot currently comprehend or envision.
As to whether the consciousness singularity will be the product of science or evolution, well, I would say it's both, and more. It is the Universe more fully awakening to Itself. Human consciousness is currently but the Universe in a half-sedated, half-asleep state. But the Universe will soon awaken to Itself and realize the next level of consciousness.
I could speculate on how the consciousness singularity will be brought about. It will be a technological feat that will involve the application of neuroscience-derived principles to the manipulation of our human brains. Whether this application will be limited to one, a few, many, or all people, is anyones guess. Probably all that we need is for one individual to experience this consciousness singularity, and then all or many of the answers will be open to that individual, including how to realistically transform and expand other people's consciousness so that they too, will experience and be a part of this consciousness singularity.
This transition will not happen simultaneously across the globe. It will happen to one or a few individuals first, and then it will likely spread like wildfire across the globe to consume this world in its flames. At that point, mostly everyone will be awakened from the illusion that more than 99.9999% of the world is currently unknowingly trapped in, and we will all realize and directly experience truths that we cannot even begin to imagine now.
hey Karl, what does a Max Steel Extreme Way mean?
Thank you, that explains it very clearly, or at least, as clearly as it is going to get for now. So basically the effect of the singularity on a few people spread, not only the "word" but, a bit something more, the actual experience, am I right?
Well then, I will wait for this singularity, wether or not I am alive when it happens. That will be the greatest turning point in history followed by many more, infinately so.
Well then, I will wait for this singularity, wether or not I am alive when it happens. That will be the greatest turning point in history followed by many more, infinately so.
Max Steel is a computer animated cartoon, when Max turnes into a secret agent spy guy he says," GOING TURBO" and, when he need to put in some super powers into the mix he says ," IT'S TIME TO DO THINGS THE MAX STEEL WAY". Max Steel Extrem is just something that sounds like he would say. As to what it means, it just means TOTALLY AWSOME EXTREME!
do you think there will still be humans as we know them now after the sigularity takes place. I mean, will the human race die out like the neolithic cavemen?
The singularity already exists, it is the one God that resides in all of creation.
The newage movement shies away from the word God because of the religious connotations which have many negative emotional beliefs attached.
The One God is the one consciousness. It is part of us so there is no manipulation required only the choice to realize it.
The more we let go of the ideas that keep us separate from it the closer we get to realizing and experiencing it.
Many do in the subtleties of life. Most of us can tell and experience the feelings of the ones closest to us, their joy and their sadness resonates within us.
The subtle isness of the underlying reality that is the essence of all of creation is experienced by everyone but usually ignored due to the direction of thought the mind takes.
Our habits of thinking takes us outward through the gross senses, the only change required is to take the mind inward and to familiarize and stabilize the awareness.
This draws the mind naturally towards the source of everything and to the connection of all of creation.
Evolution is just the time that it takes to grow towards the inevitable goal that is the choice of the human mind, within the relative terms of thought. By this I mean that the mind in its attempts to define the goal of evolution always deludes itself with its best guess by continuing to drag the past along as truth and part of the goal.
Evolution in reality is the return to the source of all of creation.
Choice is what creates the action to create the goal. Action exists because we believe that action is required to make something happen. Action beyond the thought and the desire is ingrained into the minds belief system because we have disasociated ourselves from what is already present and true for all.
Given the idea that some neurotropic process is going to take place might give the illusion that some process is being created by some person or persons to draw humanity towards its true reality, but it is the reality of truth that draws the mind towards it in every moment.
The belief that we have to do something is part of the belief that it is outside of ourselves and part of the habit that keeps us turning away from it or denying that it is already here.
It is everpresent, like the air we breathe and take for granted.
Even the idea that a few will start the process and others follow is not a process of chemical stimulation or physical alteration but the awakening of truth. Like a tuning fork being struck, when the rest of the forks are in atonement, or at one ment, truth becomes realized.
Man has always experienced this Union with reality.
Throughout the history of this planet man has become enlightened and passed on the wisdom of the consciousness that is everpresent and all pervading, but the free will of man is something that is created within the one consciousness, it is this one consciousness that creates diversity or the idea of it.
When one reaches Self realization the world is known, it is simply the projection of the one consciousness. There is only one person in the room, it and all is you.
Knowing what to do then and how to live your life is beyond the normal process of thought and so we project our best guess into our future, or try again out of habit to return ourselves to the thoughts of the many.
Our fear of our individuality being obliterated always leads us to the ultimate idea of union in action and thought so that we can retain our individuality in action and form, so that we can keep our likes and dislikes.
We just want to do this and not be threatened or threaten others, we just want to find peace in the world.
The world changes when you change.
The human will always exist within creation because it can, because it always has. Time is an idea created by the will to experience the creation that is born of desire and belief.
Manifest reality is a product of desire. It is not so much dreamed of as realized within the reality of all things that can be or could be.
In other words no thing is really created from nothing or created from an unknown it is simply realized within the fabric of possibility, which is in itself complete and full of everything that could ever be conceived. This is the reality of the Consciousness that pervades the universe.
It is omnipresent and omnipotent.
We as a species think very small. We embibe our awareness with our limited thoughts of our greatness as a species and our ignorance of the universe.
We don't give much thought to the universe and the life that is in it, the intelligence that may be beyond our earthly thoughts and boundaries.
We think relative to human history and the projections of its relationship to the universe.
We are mutidimensional beings because we are of the one consciousness. Able to experience all realities and all at the same time or one at a time.
Expand your awareness and you can reach beyond any limit.
We in limited thinking believe that this present moment is a stepping stone to some other moment which is greater. The Ego will believe that the ultimate will come, but then what? Will that be a stepping stone to something greater?
To Self realize is not necessarily to move the manifest into a bigger picture or manipulate the physical reality into a more perfect plan. Consciousness which is perfect already created this plan. To the Neanderthal this moment in time would probably be inconceivable and to him as far out and expansive as the dream of the manifestation of the Singularity.
Dreams are of the mind, all manifest reality including Humans is of the One consciousness. They are not separate nor are they meant to think and act the same way.
They are not meant to be anything but the manifestation of conscious will.
That manifestation will change with the awareness and the awareness is not limited to any physical boundary. It is not locked within the mind. The mind is a receiver of the one consciousness, it is capable of experiencing anything but if it is filled with all kinds of beliefs in reality then its limitless abilities are limited only by the filters that are placed there in the beleifs that are accumulated from the past and our limited perceptions.
Any drug may bypass the internal programs for a moment but the mind will ultimately need to be purged of the subtle programs that anchor limited thought in place, in order for it to be free to do what it was designed to do.
To act as the connecting link to our unlimited Self.
There, once realized would you change your self or your human reality?
Maybe, maybe not.
Possibly the human form is the ultimate form to experience the diversity of the free will and the unlimited potential.
Consciousness of itself is still and without any physical boundaries. It creates a vehicle to experience and why not the human form, to experience the idea of evolution in whatever bizarre from it takes, and why not in many forms and on many worlds and in many universes?
Perhaps the human civilization will always be what it is because it never existed in the first place as anything other than an idea and the idea was the experience, and the past and future are but memories of those thoughts.
Now here you are and within your beliefs who are you and what are you?
Can you be changed by any external manipulation? You the consciousness that you are? Would any expereince really change you or would the experience just be the change due to the thoughts that you might entertain.
Think about it. Why would you limit yourself to some process of physical reality and limit yourself to being affected by what you have created in the first place.
The newage movement shies away from the word God because of the religious connotations which have many negative emotional beliefs attached.
The One God is the one consciousness. It is part of us so there is no manipulation required only the choice to realize it.
The more we let go of the ideas that keep us separate from it the closer we get to realizing and experiencing it.
Many do in the subtleties of life. Most of us can tell and experience the feelings of the ones closest to us, their joy and their sadness resonates within us.
The subtle isness of the underlying reality that is the essence of all of creation is experienced by everyone but usually ignored due to the direction of thought the mind takes.
Our habits of thinking takes us outward through the gross senses, the only change required is to take the mind inward and to familiarize and stabilize the awareness.
This draws the mind naturally towards the source of everything and to the connection of all of creation.
Evolution is just the time that it takes to grow towards the inevitable goal that is the choice of the human mind, within the relative terms of thought. By this I mean that the mind in its attempts to define the goal of evolution always deludes itself with its best guess by continuing to drag the past along as truth and part of the goal.
Evolution in reality is the return to the source of all of creation.
Choice is what creates the action to create the goal. Action exists because we believe that action is required to make something happen. Action beyond the thought and the desire is ingrained into the minds belief system because we have disasociated ourselves from what is already present and true for all.
Given the idea that some neurotropic process is going to take place might give the illusion that some process is being created by some person or persons to draw humanity towards its true reality, but it is the reality of truth that draws the mind towards it in every moment.
The belief that we have to do something is part of the belief that it is outside of ourselves and part of the habit that keeps us turning away from it or denying that it is already here.
It is everpresent, like the air we breathe and take for granted.
Even the idea that a few will start the process and others follow is not a process of chemical stimulation or physical alteration but the awakening of truth. Like a tuning fork being struck, when the rest of the forks are in atonement, or at one ment, truth becomes realized.
Man has always experienced this Union with reality.
Throughout the history of this planet man has become enlightened and passed on the wisdom of the consciousness that is everpresent and all pervading, but the free will of man is something that is created within the one consciousness, it is this one consciousness that creates diversity or the idea of it.
When one reaches Self realization the world is known, it is simply the projection of the one consciousness. There is only one person in the room, it and all is you.
Knowing what to do then and how to live your life is beyond the normal process of thought and so we project our best guess into our future, or try again out of habit to return ourselves to the thoughts of the many.
Our fear of our individuality being obliterated always leads us to the ultimate idea of union in action and thought so that we can retain our individuality in action and form, so that we can keep our likes and dislikes.
We just want to do this and not be threatened or threaten others, we just want to find peace in the world.
The world changes when you change.
The human will always exist within creation because it can, because it always has. Time is an idea created by the will to experience the creation that is born of desire and belief.
Manifest reality is a product of desire. It is not so much dreamed of as realized within the reality of all things that can be or could be.
In other words no thing is really created from nothing or created from an unknown it is simply realized within the fabric of possibility, which is in itself complete and full of everything that could ever be conceived. This is the reality of the Consciousness that pervades the universe.
It is omnipresent and omnipotent.
We as a species think very small. We embibe our awareness with our limited thoughts of our greatness as a species and our ignorance of the universe.
We don't give much thought to the universe and the life that is in it, the intelligence that may be beyond our earthly thoughts and boundaries.
We think relative to human history and the projections of its relationship to the universe.
We are mutidimensional beings because we are of the one consciousness. Able to experience all realities and all at the same time or one at a time.
Expand your awareness and you can reach beyond any limit.
We in limited thinking believe that this present moment is a stepping stone to some other moment which is greater. The Ego will believe that the ultimate will come, but then what? Will that be a stepping stone to something greater?
To Self realize is not necessarily to move the manifest into a bigger picture or manipulate the physical reality into a more perfect plan. Consciousness which is perfect already created this plan. To the Neanderthal this moment in time would probably be inconceivable and to him as far out and expansive as the dream of the manifestation of the Singularity.
Dreams are of the mind, all manifest reality including Humans is of the One consciousness. They are not separate nor are they meant to think and act the same way.
They are not meant to be anything but the manifestation of conscious will.
That manifestation will change with the awareness and the awareness is not limited to any physical boundary. It is not locked within the mind. The mind is a receiver of the one consciousness, it is capable of experiencing anything but if it is filled with all kinds of beliefs in reality then its limitless abilities are limited only by the filters that are placed there in the beleifs that are accumulated from the past and our limited perceptions.
Any drug may bypass the internal programs for a moment but the mind will ultimately need to be purged of the subtle programs that anchor limited thought in place, in order for it to be free to do what it was designed to do.
To act as the connecting link to our unlimited Self.
There, once realized would you change your self or your human reality?
Maybe, maybe not.
Possibly the human form is the ultimate form to experience the diversity of the free will and the unlimited potential.
Consciousness of itself is still and without any physical boundaries. It creates a vehicle to experience and why not the human form, to experience the idea of evolution in whatever bizarre from it takes, and why not in many forms and on many worlds and in many universes?
Perhaps the human civilization will always be what it is because it never existed in the first place as anything other than an idea and the idea was the experience, and the past and future are but memories of those thoughts.
Now here you are and within your beliefs who are you and what are you?
Can you be changed by any external manipulation? You the consciousness that you are? Would any expereince really change you or would the experience just be the change due to the thoughts that you might entertain.
Think about it. Why would you limit yourself to some process of physical reality and limit yourself to being affected by what you have created in the first place.
| QUOTE (Joesus @ Feb 20, 10:23 AM) |
| The singularity already exists, it is the one God that resides in all of creation. |
First Cause: The Singularity or God?
( Is there really any difference?)
If we list the attributes we ascribe to both, they really do look pretty much alike. Both are considered to be Infinite, unbound, eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent. The only bone of contention may be over "Omniscient," but depending on how you perceive ‘All-Knowing' The Singularity may be entitled also.
Omnipresent is pretty much self-explanatory, as both God and The Singularity are the First Cause and therefore must be the only "Things" in existence. For anything at all to exist there must be a First Cause, and we are left with no recourse but to accept there is one or the other.
From what I can fathom The Singularity and God are one and the same, the only difference is how we perceive them.
I think we must also grant The Singularity to be Omnipotent also, since all energy and everything that exists must be part of The Singularity. No energy and no-thing can exist ‘in' The Singularity because by definition The Singularity is ‘Singular,' therefore it can be the only ‘Thing' and all energy and all matter must be part of The Singularity. All matter and all energy ‘are' The Singularity.
If we perceive God as First Cause, then all of Creation must issue from God. We would not be created ‘in' the likeness of God, but created ‘from' the likeness of God. So just as all matter and energy are The Singularity, all matter and energy must also ‘be' God.
The difference is when we come to Omniscience, but if all matter and energy ‘is' The Singularity, then all knowledge must also be part of The Singularity. The Singularity would therefore be omniscient because it contains all knowledge.
The bone of contention is not over omniscience, but over Sentience.
Science, Skeptics and most Atheist; and I use these terms very generally, would have us believe the Universe manifesting within The Singularity was just an accident that happened. There was not, and is not, any intellect as the driving force. The Singularity is there, and for no good reason at all, there was a disturbance in its ‘fabric' and all the matter and energy in our Universe was generated. After billions of years of even more accidents Life spontaneously evolved from inanimate matter. It then seems but a very short few million years for Consciousness and Awareness to evolve by yet more accidents of nature. As for a Spirit or Soul, well they cannot be measured, so they can not exist.
The only problem I have with this scenario is it lacks a ‘catalyst.' "Accidents just don't happen." For anything to happen at all, there must be a catalyst to initiate a change. Something must have caused the disturbance.
On the other extreme is the concept of an Omniscient and Sentient God. Religious dogma would have us believe an All-Knowing deity created the Universe and then created us to serve, worship and glorify his existence. Then, just to make the game more sporting, he threw in Free Will so we can have a choice to Serve, Worship, and Idolize him or not, but if we don't then we are condemned to Eternal Damnation! I have several problems with this.
The first is a Omniscient God would already know the outcome before the fact. Even with Free Will thrown into the mix the outcome would already be predestined because of pre-knowledge. If a God was already certain of the outcome, there would be no need for the gesture. Omniscience turns Creation into a Charade.
Another problem I have with being created only to worship and glorify God's existence is it demeans the concept of a Devine Creator and turns him into a being who seeks idolizing to assuage his own ego. Sorry, but that just does not fit the image I envision for a Devine Creator.
Besides, if we are created from God, and are a part of God, then it would be the same as God worshiping himself.
The argument is not on whether there is a Creator or not, but whether our God is a mindless Singularity or a Sentient Divinity?
The Devout perceive a Sentient Omni-God. The Mindless Singularity is the god of Choice for the Heathens.
Neither a mindless Singularity nor a Devine Creator quite fit the bill from my perspective. I believe both sit at the extreme ends, and the truth lies between them.
http://www.geocities.com/cckeiser/42d.htm
Of course we have the same problem with both ‘existing' at all since both are considered to be Infinite, with no beginning or ending, and thus cannot wholly exist as an "Is." Since an Infinity cannot have a beginning or end, an Infinity is never finished existing. It is forever in the process of potential existence, but can never actually get there.
So if we grant an Infinite existence to both The Singularity and to God, neither can actually wholly exist, but are continually evolving to a potential existence neither will ever wholly achieve.
| QUOTE (Shawn @ Feb 20, 11:25 AM) |
| The Singularity is a common matter of discussion in transhumanist circles. There is no clear definition, but usually the Singularity is meant as a future time when societal, scientific and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective, and when humanity will become posthumanity. Another definition of Singularity denotes the singular time when technological development will be at its fastest. Of course, there are some who think the whole idea is just technocalyptic dreaming. |
The Singularity already ‘exist.' We are The Singularity, but right now we are fragmented. From other philosophies and beliefs I have been reading the past few years 2012 is the year. Do a web search on 2012.
How to get from ‘We Exist' to The Singularity, and what We Exist tells us about The Singularity.
( And why The Singularity is the answer to both the Fundamental Question and First Cause.)
(BTW, the Fundamental Question is: "Why does ‘Something' exist and not ‘Nothing'?")
We Exist!
In order for anything to exist, it must exist in something. What do we exist in?
We can start by saying we exist on this planet, in this solar system, this galaxy, and in this Universe.
But what does The Universe exist in?
It doesn't really matter what your Religion or Belief is, sooner or latter you must arrive at the Last Container that contains everything else, but that is not itself contained in anything.
If the Last Container is not ‘contained,' it has no boundaries. No Boundaries means it has no beginning and no ending. Therefore, it must be Infinite, Unbound, and Eternal. If it is Infinite it must be a Singularity.
An Infinite Unbound and Eternal Singularity must then be the answer to First Cause, and because The Singularity is ‘Something' it answers the Fundamental Question why is there ‘Something' and not ‘Nothing'!
The reason is there has always been The Singularity, and there never was a time there was a absolute ‘Nothingness.' There is No-Thing in Nothing. We cannot get Something out of Nothing because there isn't anything in it to begin with.
If Nothingness had ever been the case, by its very unnature, Nothingness would always be the case.
I must point out the absence of e=mc^2 energy that makes up our Reality is not ‘Nothingness.' Quantum Physics tells us all our energy emanates from the UnReality of the Quantum Universe. So if all our e=mc^2 energy reverted back into quantum energy, there would be ‘No-Physical-Thing' in our Universe, but it would not be absolute Nothingness. There would still be The Singularity.
So what is The Singularity?
All we know about The Singularity is what is in it, but because it is a Singularity, no-thing can be "in" it, all things must be woven from it. So everything that exists must be a part of The Singularity. There cannot be anything that is not The Singularity, so Everything ‘is' The Singularity.
We Exist! We do not exist in The Singularity, we are a part of The Singularity. We are The Singularity.
Since we exist as The Singularity anything we can ascribe to ourselves must by default be an attribute of The Singularity.
The only thing we know for certain is we are conscious. Consciousness must then be an attribute of The Singularity.
This is where Occam's Razor comes into play.
If we do not try to complicate anything more than necessary, then We Exist and Consciousness as The Singularity is all that is necessary. Anything we attempt to add is only an unnecessary complication. The Singularity is our Consciousness.
C.C.Keiser
4/15/04
I am removing my off-topic posts.
The 40Hz post does not belong in this topic.
My apologizes to the administrator.
Chuck
The 40Hz post does not belong in this topic.
My apologizes to the administrator.
Chuck
| QUOTE |
| quantum role in consciousness. |
this is doubtful. CC, you've said you're interested in how the One gives rise to the many. Quantum explanations will not tell you. It comes down to interactions between neurons. There are over 100 billion neurons in the brain. The form and structure of consciousness will be determined by the structure of neural interactions. There is no need to postulate a quantum role.
| QUOTE |
| The resonance frequency of consciousness is around 40Hz. |
This is not true. There is a wide spectrum of frequencies characterizing EEG and physiological recordings. Some studies have found correlations between attentional processes and the 40 Hz gamma frequency, but this a far cry from labeling it the "resonance frequency of consciousness". There is absolutely nothing special about 40 Hz. Even in the absense of 40 Hz brain activity, you can still have consciousness. Thus, it is not the resonance frequency of consciousness.
| QUOTE |
| Nancy Woolf at UCLA who, among others, does consider quantum processes relevant to consciousness noticed the work in its other context. Thanks again Nancy! |
Nancy Woolf is a quack
| QUOTE |
| The demonstration of quantum coherence in active brain regions does not prove that quantum effects are necessarily involved in consciousness, and in fact the demonstrated quantum coherence involves nuclear spin couplings which are induced by the magnet and excitatory pulses, and not expected to be present in a normal physiological state, being essentially exogenous, induced artifacts. |
Precisely! The quantum coherence is an artifact induced by the strong external magnetic fields of the MRI, which are several orders of magnitude stronger than magnetic fields produced by the brain.
Thus, at best, quantum coherence is merely an artifact produced by strong external magnetic fields and has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness. If it had anything to do with consciousness, then you might expect people getting MRI scans to experience alterations in their consciousness, but this doesn't happen. Hence, quantum coherence is irrelevant for consciousness.
even though Nancy Woolf is a quack, she has some pretty pictures on her website at http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~nwoolf/
the picture above shows cholinergic innervation of the mouse brain in sagittal view (anterior is left, dorsal is up)
Dear CCK
You might look into the University of Illinois study that worked with Hank Wesselmann and various mystics and psychic healers. The 40HZ brainwavelength seems most effective and Hank (through shamanic studies with his wife) was able to get there and stay there longer than any others. It is suggested that Indigo Children or some kind of genetic evolutionary leap may be involved.
You might look into the University of Illinois study that worked with Hank Wesselmann and various mystics and psychic healers. The 40HZ brainwavelength seems most effective and Hank (through shamanic studies with his wife) was able to get there and stay there longer than any others. It is suggested that Indigo Children or some kind of genetic evolutionary leap may be involved.
| QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 22, 12:16 PM) |
| The CSF-containing ventricles are seen in the quantum coherence image |
yeah, like the CSF-containing ventricles are known to be real important for consciousness. Give me a break.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 22, 01:56 PM) |
| You might look into the University of Illinois study that worked with Hank Wesselmann |
Hank Wesselmann the bus driver? That's the only Hank Wesselmann I could find by searching online.
Nevermind, I found the correct Hank Wesselmann: author of SPIRIT MEDICINE: A Guide to Healing in the Sacred Garden. Maybe he's a bus-driver in his spare time.
About 40 Hz, it's barking up the wrong tree. Yeah, you have some neuroscientists go gaga over 40 Hz and consciousness, but the connection is weak, and like I said before, you can have consciousness without 40 Hz. And also, simply correlating attentional processes or parts of consciousness with 40 Hz says nothing about the structure of the underlying neural activity giving rise to the 40 Hz or what's so special about it that it gives rise to some aspects of consciousness or attentional processes.
About 40 Hz, it's barking up the wrong tree. Yeah, you have some neuroscientists go gaga over 40 Hz and consciousness, but the connection is weak, and like I said before, you can have consciousness without 40 Hz. And also, simply correlating attentional processes or parts of consciousness with 40 Hz says nothing about the structure of the underlying neural activity giving rise to the 40 Hz or what's so special about it that it gives rise to some aspects of consciousness or attentional processes.
sorry people, but consciousness and the structure of consciousness is more complicated than 40 Hz! That's a cop-out. That's a sissy-mans way out. Only the unimaginative and self-deluded opt for the 40 Hz solution.
thanks for the links CC!
Hank Wesselman has a Ph. D. and much field experience in things which you will never understand or even attempt to understand because your ego is all caught up in yourself. He was part of the team that discovered Lucy in the Olduvai Gorge which would have been around the time you were born (or before).
They fear being themself - I can understand that - their self is not connected.
| QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 22, 07:57 PM) |
| I know there is a great sense of freedom by being anonymous and not being held accountable for your words or actions, but is that really being ethical? What is it you fear that you must hide who you are? |
Usually only people who enjoy engaging in personal attacks like to know the personal identity of a poster and will mask such desires under alternative rationalizations like "wanting posters to take accountability". But the meaning of a post should not bear any relation to the name of the poster. If we are all one and the same what purpose does it serve to obscure that with illusions of separateness and individuality?
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 22, 07:31 PM) |
| Hank Wesselman has a Ph. D. and much field experience in things which you will never understand or even attempt to understand because your ego is all caught up in yourself. |
sounds like you worship him. Maybe if you had a Ph.D., you wouldn't. Ever think about that?
| QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 22, 08:09 PM) |
| The micro-tubulars in the brain are the suspects of choice for this theorized quantum connection. Is 40 Hz their optimum operating frequency? |
First off, microtubules are structural proteins that are found in many places besides just the brain. Secondly, they are confined to cells, which means they do not form an intercellulular network. Thus, they cannot be involved in any significant extent in neural network computations. And no, 40 Hz is not their operating frequency. 40 Hz is probably induced by intracortical connections between neurons and has nothing to do with microtubules.
Dear CCK
The recent discovery of design intelligence in many parts of nature includes the nanotubes which grow. I think I posted something here ion Mt. Yamato and manganese nodules that grow too. I believe their are lattice that connect the similar or affinite structures in a gaian net that are at work and defy our bebunker types here to explain the growth and appearance of these things in any other way.
The origin of life at a biological level was aided by minerals lattice structures according to one scientific theory of evolution. All of this was contemplated in the Dictum of Hermes or the Law of the Magi before him - it is the third of three such laws. As Above, SO Below. There is an excellent book by that title.
The recent discovery of design intelligence in many parts of nature includes the nanotubes which grow. I think I posted something here ion Mt. Yamato and manganese nodules that grow too. I believe their are lattice that connect the similar or affinite structures in a gaian net that are at work and defy our bebunker types here to explain the growth and appearance of these things in any other way.
The origin of life at a biological level was aided by minerals lattice structures according to one scientific theory of evolution. All of this was contemplated in the Dictum of Hermes or the Law of the Magi before him - it is the third of three such laws. As Above, SO Below. There is an excellent book by that title.
I have met or been involved intimately with Hank's superiors. He gave up the pursuit of the educational processes common to the uninformed schools that engage mind control after he had his Ph. D. I did it before that - But I tested out of University and have succeeded in all areas of endeavour beyond your wildest dreams.
| QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 23, 06:34 AM) |
| But I tested out of University and have succeeded in all areas of endeavour beyond your wildest dreams. |
oh I highly doubt that
| QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 23, 06:29 PM) |
| I googled him a while back. If I didn't like him so much I would hate him!! |
I certainly don't hate him. I am just sceptical of many of his claims. What did you google and how trustworthy are the sources of your information? I tried googling him but couldn't find anything very informative or useful under "Robert the Bruce" or "Robert Baird" or "Robert Bruce Baird"
| QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 23, 06:52 PM) |
| Without more research to provide a definitive answer either way, there is no sense in arguing the subject any further. We will just have to agree to disagree, and move on. There are no answer. There are only choices. |
excellent point. We will have to work out the choices sometime. Thank you for your reply too.
Over a year ago I was called to a Paranormal Magazine group as an expert through some kind of search they did. I told them nothing is 'para' - normal and challenged them to give any mystery science could not answer. They chose ghosts.
I don't think google has much of what I do or have done yet - the site World-mysteries has much that I have done and will do an interview soon.
Of course you can read the reviews of people who have read the one book already published and get a great deal of insight but you would not know how much they know or have checked.
I think a person who writes what has happened in their life is eminently more honest than a person who has an agenda or is employed to toe some line but then you might just think I am writing fiction.
As it happens CCK has been part of a site where people have known me personally or have known me on the web as well for over a year.
I don't think google has much of what I do or have done yet - the site World-mysteries has much that I have done and will do an interview soon.
Of course you can read the reviews of people who have read the one book already published and get a great deal of insight but you would not know how much they know or have checked.
I think a person who writes what has happened in their life is eminently more honest than a person who has an agenda or is employed to toe some line but then you might just think I am writing fiction.
As it happens CCK has been part of a site where people have known me personally or have known me on the web as well for over a year.
| QUOTE (Guest @ Apr 23, 05:07 AM) | ||
Usually only people who enjoy engaging in personal attacks like to know the personal identity of a poster and will mask such desires under alternative rationalizations like "wanting posters to take accountability". But the meaning of a post should not bear any relation to the name of the poster. If we are all one and the same what purpose does it serve to obscure that with illusions of separateness and individuality? |
Anonymity allows both the sender & receiver to focus on the message content, without undue concern over the resume of the sender.
| QUOTE (Shawn @ Feb 20, 11:23 AM) |
| hello everyone, at the request of some, I've created this board with the intention of informing others and initiating spirited discussion about the possibility and ramifications of an impending Singularity. Â So, just what exactly is the Singularity? Â Well, hopefully the posts in this thread will go some way in defining what the Singularity is and introducing the subject to newcomers. take care, Shawn |
Upon reaching singularity, will the consciouness of semi-sentient beings become absorbed and transformed into part of the singular entity? Example: Singularity meets cow in field and the worms underneath it. Seriously, I do not intend to be cute or confrontational with this question.
| QUOTE (First Timer 20040529 @ May 29, 07:55 AM) |
| Upon reaching singularity, will the consciouness of semi-sentient beings become absorbed and transformed into part of the singular entity? Example: Singularity meets cow in field and the worms underneath it. Seriously, I do not intend to be cute or confrontational with this question. |
This is the first time I've ever come across this question (which is an excellent question, btw). You can envision different answers, different possibilities, though I don't think we're in a position yet to really answer your question with anything approaching certainty.
I like the idea of a singularity in respects to human conciousness and in it's defence, human conciousness is qualitively not just quantitively different than other animals. It's a difference of kind and not degree that we humans share apart from other life. Yet as I think of the connotations a singularity has for me, it evokes a different idea: Could conciousness become infinitely dense in that what we are capiable of now is possiably a proto-conciousness ( a basic irreduciable emergent property ). Nothing in life is as perplexing as this growing topic (conciousness), yet the language that is needed to explore it is only now starting to develope. I find that we are not yet articulating the issue well and yet your belief is that we may be on the verge of descovery. Science proceeds without refrence to philosophy's clarification; Might we already have possession of this ability to transend the proto-conciousness?
Yes, my thoughts precisely.
The predicated coming Singularity is not the ‘creation' of a Singularity of Mind, it is the recognition that it already exists, and has always existed. It is the recognition of our own abilities.
We are The Singularity.
The predicated coming Singularity is not the ‘creation' of a Singularity of Mind, it is the recognition that it already exists, and has always existed. It is the recognition of our own abilities.
We are The Singularity.
| QUOTE (Theresa @ May 15, 04:23 AM) |
| Who can understand The ancient ones? Who could understand The ancient ones? Who can speak With the ancient ones? |
Hello Theresa!
Nice poem. Shamanism was explained to me as the "responsibility to bring forth the knowledge of the ancients". We also get ancients as spirit guides or teachers.
As for the Coyote and Raven mourning the loss of their ways, there's a faint hope that these can be resurrected again. I'm currently in a shamanic vision quest with two others, an owl and a coyote. Damned right its hard to get a coyote to understand, it seems that's part of the test of the quest - to bring understanding to the coyote to compliment his abilities.
Have fun!
Red Dragon
Raven shaman
My dear attempting to Pile higher and Deeper quack:
| QUOTE (Shawn) |
| Neuroscience will provide the key that unlocks the door onto transcendent states of consciousness leading up to the singularity. |
And just how long have you had this delusion? Anytime you find this psychosis unacceptable just see a shrinkwrap who will substitute it for another, more acceptable psychosis.
| QUOTE (Shawn) |
| we will learn to create such melodies as we cannot currently comprehend or envision. ...and we will all realize and directly experience truths that we cannot even begin to imagine now. |
Speak for yourself.
I'd like to watch neuroscience's experiments in this area, I get a kick out of monkeys' heads exploding, dissolving or combusting.
Its extremely doubtful that neuroscience will determine all the sufficient and necessary functionality to do this.
When you think you're ready to try, please invite me over to watch, with one proviso: I get to punch/strike you in a certain part of the head before you begin. As a result, you just might survive the experience.
Hmmm.... was that "pre event" even in your list of "to dos" or considerations? Its definitely one of many required and some vary with individuality.
There's an art to doing this, as well as science. Too much of an imbalance between these two "sensi"-bilities (grin) will produce disasterous effects.
Here's an artistic expression from (guessing) the renaissance era, of an activated pineal gland (not guessing) looking out towards the pituitary gland and eyes. Do you understand this? Save this to file and inverse or negative effect the colours to see the subliminals a little better.
Or this? Here's another artistic impression of the opening of the crown chakra or pineal gland. This is from an artistic friend of mine. He's currently recovering from his 2nd and 3rd brain surgeries.
This is a portrait of my going into the 11th dimension in 1995. Do you understand this? Rotate it to the right or left horizontal to see how I "viewed" the experience vs. how it was "viewed" by my friend.
Yeah, fun... Wow! Assuming one survives.
Have fun!
Red Dragon
Raven shaman
| QUOTE (Unknown @ May 31, 09:09 PM) |
| Science proceeds without refrence to philosophy's clarification; Might we already have possession of this ability to transend the proto-conciousness? |
In a word: Yes.
In two words: Have fun!
Red Dragon
Raven shaman
RD,
Bearing in mind that quotes taken out of context can appear overly simplistic if not outright ridiculous, I would still maintain the validity of the notion that neuroscience will be the most important factor for the purposes of enhancing and expanding our consciousness in ways we cannot even begin to imagine now. Our states of consciousness have their basis in our brain's structure and function. By manipulating our brain's structure and function, we thereby manipulate our states of consciousness. Thus, the path through neuroscience and neurotechnology would seem the most conducive and promising for the purposes of expanding and enhancing our own consciousness. Neuroscience is at a point where we know a great deal about brain organization and function, but the neurotechnologies are lacking to the extent that we cannot manipulate brain structure and function as we would like. Thus, we have a lot of knowledge, but are in a position of not knowing quite how to use it yet. I'm sure this situation is temporary and that in the near future (it could be weeks, months, or years), you will start seeing neurotechnologies that parallel and make use of the currently highly developed neuroscience. The potentials for neuroscience and neurotech for enhancing and expanding consciousness are literally limiteless.
The second half of your post I won't comment on. I appreciated the renaissance picture, but I guess you could say we have "artistic differences", or at any rate, differences in how and whether we choose to use certain terms, and I would rather not open up that can of worms.
Your pretention is amusing though still unwarranted. In any event, I have enjoyed your other posts and hope you will enjoy yourself here as well.
Bearing in mind that quotes taken out of context can appear overly simplistic if not outright ridiculous, I would still maintain the validity of the notion that neuroscience will be the most important factor for the purposes of enhancing and expanding our consciousness in ways we cannot even begin to imagine now. Our states of consciousness have their basis in our brain's structure and function. By manipulating our brain's structure and function, we thereby manipulate our states of consciousness. Thus, the path through neuroscience and neurotechnology would seem the most conducive and promising for the purposes of expanding and enhancing our own consciousness. Neuroscience is at a point where we know a great deal about brain organization and function, but the neurotechnologies are lacking to the extent that we cannot manipulate brain structure and function as we would like. Thus, we have a lot of knowledge, but are in a position of not knowing quite how to use it yet. I'm sure this situation is temporary and that in the near future (it could be weeks, months, or years), you will start seeing neurotechnologies that parallel and make use of the currently highly developed neuroscience. The potentials for neuroscience and neurotech for enhancing and expanding consciousness are literally limiteless.
The second half of your post I won't comment on. I appreciated the renaissance picture, but I guess you could say we have "artistic differences", or at any rate, differences in how and whether we choose to use certain terms, and I would rather not open up that can of worms.
Your pretention is amusing though still unwarranted. In any event, I have enjoyed your other posts and hope you will enjoy yourself here as well.
RD,
I'm not sure whether you deleted your reply to my above post or whether someone else did. Needless to say, I got the chance to read it and there are a few points I'd like to make.
First off, my remark above about finding your pretension amusing, this was meant tongue-in-cheek, and I think you misinterpreted my intent and/or tone of message. I realize we have very different backgrounds and ways of expressing ourselves. I no more want to meet you on "your ground" than you would want to meet me on mine. Regardless of these differences, I have respected your ground and have sought to learn more, whereas you have essentially attempted unsuccessfully to belittle mine. Is it that you feel threatened by a scientific approach to the manipulation and enhancement of consciousness? Perhaps nowadays, manipulating and enhancing consciousness is much more an art than a science, and like you say, the only "manipulation" possible at present is ones own mind set and thought process, plus some additional herbs and spices from old mother earth. But every science was an art in infancy. I regard the scientific manipulation and enhancement of normal human consciousness to be no exception to this. It is developing from an art into a science.
I find it interesting that you admit that the manipulation of consciousness requires more than just mind set and thought processes; you also conceded it requires additional herbs and spices from old mother earth. But why stop there? If you require herbs and spices for manipulating your consciousness, then you must also admit the possibility of other devices, like technological ones perhaps, that would also facilitate the manipulation of consciousness.
About different neurotechnologies, there are several that look promising for further development for the purposes of manipulating and enhancing consciousness:
1) Neuropharmacology - the development or discovery of additional compounds supporting neuronal growth, function, and plasticity, as well as psychoactive compounds (or herbs and spices as you called them).
2) Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) - Magnetically-induced excitation and inhibition of brain areas.
3) Multi-stimulating-electrode arrays - Electrically-induced excitation and inhibition of brain areas, including subcortical areas.
4) Genetic Manipulations - resulting in over-expression or under-expression of certain genes or mRNAs in well-defined populations of neurons.
5) Neural Grafting - which essentially involves integrating additional neural tissue and circuitry into our brains.
Note that, for the sake of simplicity, my list leaves out Brain-Computer Interfacing, though this is also an area that may play an important role in modifying and enhancing our consciousness through the modification and enhancement of neural structure and function.
Finally, I would recommend the study of comparative neurology because this makes it very clear that brains are very different across species, not only in gross appearance, but also in the connectional and functional organization. When I speak of manipulating the brain in order to manipulate consciousness, at one extreme, I am thinking along the lines of comparing human brains to monkey or dog brains, then comparing human consciousness to what monkey or dog consciousness is probably like, and then considering what sort of consciousness would follow if we were to modify the human brain to make it stand in relation to the pre-modified human brain as the pre-modified human brain stands in relation to the monkey or dog brain. That should make it clear that the modifications of consciousness (introduced by modifications of brain structure/function) that I am envisioning as well within the realm of current technologies and neuroscientific information cannot be induced currently by just willing them or by voluntarily inducing changes in mind set.
Perhaps a computer analogy will make it more clear: Our thought processes are analogous to software, and what I'm saying is that our brains are like hardware (or wetware if you prefer), and that it is necessary to upgrade our hardware in order to run better software. If you have some 200 MHz, 64 MB RAM computer from a decade ago, you're never going to be able to run most of today's powerful software on it, simply because the hardware isn't sufficient. It's the same thing with our brains. Our hardware does not support the more powerful types of software. We must modify and enhance our hardware before we can run the more powerful software.
Dear Red Dragon
Might I add to this debate between you and Shawn, by saying I agree with Shawn and I think you are gifted or talented but the use of herbs or other devices in the transfer of information between entity or dimensions is most difficult. I think a thorough study of Castaneda shows the early books used the meacaline in peyote to 'trick' Carlos. Huxley was a researcher whose experiences lead me to say that too.
I found your description of the jumping off the cliff analogy in the description of the thalami and the pineal to pituitary most interesting. Perhaps this is what Nestor and Carlos did at that point. I don't yet think so and you say elsewhere that one can make the jump in ways that are material. I would like further clarification on your position. I assume you have done the Nagual's walk which is the Walk of Power that other tradtions or adepthoods also do. Is this also similar to bi-location which is well-documented in the case of Pythagoras? I know bi-location is more and the book Jack the Bodiless is not all fiction, from personal experience.
In the matter of mind or brain manipulation through modern science I am certain the art is now a science and becoming more so every day. Thought-cloning by the likes of Persinger and the DIA using the Earth Energy Grid (dare I say HAARP) come to mind. As I have said in other postings there are ways that the ego and brain can fool people through mind-fogging and the use of sorcery and I think we need further discourse on these matters which include the use of the tepaphone by the likes of the Borgias with their 'remote poison' and Hitler's FOGC (Freemasonic Order of the Golden Centurion). I am quite certain that this is degraded Lost Chord or harmonic knowledge. In short I wonder when Ingo Swann says shadowy people came alongside the government leaders who were funding his Remote Viewing experiments to end them.
I think they saw he was impinging on their area of expertise and other programs and was too public in his expressions of how this was ESP. I think the government has been using these techniques in secret agencies since the time of Bacon and even Moses if not long before that. Shawn seems quite willing to discuss his scientific research area of expertise too, in these matters. I hope he will allow me to use his list from his post in my books.
Might I add to this debate between you and Shawn, by saying I agree with Shawn and I think you are gifted or talented but the use of herbs or other devices in the transfer of information between entity or dimensions is most difficult. I think a thorough study of Castaneda shows the early books used the meacaline in peyote to 'trick' Carlos. Huxley was a researcher whose experiences lead me to say that too.
I found your description of the jumping off the cliff analogy in the description of the thalami and the pineal to pituitary most interesting. Perhaps this is what Nestor and Carlos did at that point. I don't yet think so and you say elsewhere that one can make the jump in ways that are material. I would like further clarification on your position. I assume you have done the Nagual's walk which is the Walk of Power that other tradtions or adepthoods also do. Is this also similar to bi-location which is well-documented in the case of Pythagoras? I know bi-location is more and the book Jack the Bodiless is not all fiction, from personal experience.
In the matter of mind or brain manipulation through modern science I am certain the art is now a science and becoming more so every day. Thought-cloning by the likes of Persinger and the DIA using the Earth Energy Grid (dare I say HAARP) come to mind. As I have said in other postings there are ways that the ego and brain can fool people through mind-fogging and the use of sorcery and I think we need further discourse on these matters which include the use of the tepaphone by the likes of the Borgias with their 'remote poison' and Hitler's FOGC (Freemasonic Order of the Golden Centurion). I am quite certain that this is degraded Lost Chord or harmonic knowledge. In short I wonder when Ingo Swann says shadowy people came alongside the government leaders who were funding his Remote Viewing experiments to end them.
I think they saw he was impinging on their area of expertise and other programs and was too public in his expressions of how this was ESP. I think the government has been using these techniques in secret agencies since the time of Bacon and even Moses if not long before that. Shawn seems quite willing to discuss his scientific research area of expertise too, in these matters. I hope he will allow me to use his list from his post in my books.
| QUOTE (Shawn @ Jun 06, 06:22 AM) |
| The potentials for neuroscience and neurotech for enhancing and expanding consciousness are literally limiteless. |
Great! When you're ready to manipulate infinite energy from a parallel universe or another dimension, or even dark energy, let me know. When you're ready to fly though walls, I'd also be interested. I won't hold my breath, OK? I've already benchmarked those events, so have others, I'm hardly unique. Factual recitations are not bragging or pretentious. Note your own "observer effect".
Have you done invisibility (bending light) at least yet? Clamidium with a friend? Sprouted a halo effect? Laser? Strings of light? Morphed or shape shifted your body or parts of it, then back? What was mother earth's basic message last year? This year? Can you conceive of the planet being a conscious entity? What if it was?
Do you have any of the 3 eyes of the mysteries functioning? Even partially? Or are you just talk and theories like the spiritual babblers about the infinite potential of the human(e)? It absolutely blows me away when religious and scientific types talk about and try to measure something they've never experienced, or even have the appropriate measuring instruments for. Have you figured out dark energy yet? Its literally the blind leading the blind. This "formula" has been lying around for thousands of years. Just how old is the latin word "clamidium", for example? (Clam = silent, idium = language).
The only "manipulation" required is ones own mind set and thought process. We already have all the equipment and chemicals required "built in". Additional "stuff" that helps is some nourishment, herbs and spices from old mother earth. The only "severity" required is a shot in the head in a certain spot at a certain point in time. I haven't found a non invasive method of "unfolding" an attribute that this does (no I won't tell you what and where, its something I hold back as a reverse test for charlatans - a common shamanic technique). Otherwise, you can blow up or have some other nasty things happen to you.
Can your brain even imagine the concept of infinite energy? Then access and control it? I know of, and have witnessed other people doing, this.
Right now, you don't appear to be aware of just what's also stored in the old noggin. Past lives... crap! Have you conceived of how to access the history of this planet and species that's "built in"? Besides hypnotism and resulting misinterpretations? Seen any of it? Watched your crystals at work while this is happening? Its a show best accompanied by popcorn and a beer, for me anyway.
I'll happily make a friendly wager most scientist types wind up at least like Tesla did, or worse. Science & technology still hasn't caught up to him yet and that's what, about 80 years ago? Just how much time do you think we have left in this environmental paradox of ours, compliments of other tech heads and unreasoning monkeys?
Buddy, we've already built and tested an essential electromechanical circuit prototype and thrown it away! It even worked! It wasn't anywhere near 40Hz or the crown chakra, pineal ELF either. I've got a simple graphic representation that I'm testing that works like a mind expansion algorithm. More importantantly it can work like a compression algorithm, for times when "one's cup runneth over".
Q: What's the first thing to think of once you've activated your, physical, internal "head lights"?
A: "Where's the damned off switch!!?"
Actually there isn't one for the lights, but there is one for "the voices". The "lights" have a "dimmer switch" capability.
I didn't ask if you "liked" the art, I was interested to see if you "understood" it. Did you spot the invisible man, faces in the trees and the UFO or touque-like hat in the colour picture? Did you recognize Ezekiel's wheels within wheels from "Zeke gets a peek"? The many other psi effects and clues in all of them? Where did these folks get their neurotech?
I'm happy you find my "pretension" amusing. I find yours ridiculous. Please let me know when you're going to try any of the above, I love a good fire & will bring marshmallows. Just how many crystals and types are in the old noggin anyway? You think you're going to find some external or invasive means to coordinate their effects? Ever even seen them yet? Live and in action? There's quite a few, how many millions would you guess?
I'm heading for the hills, not to avoid anything, I need space to practise these "new" walking and talking skills and, I'm an old guy. Other folks and youngsters have already gone "into the woods" to do this, I'm a little behind schedule. And you're just listing the possibilities at this stage? Have you added all the abilities that all the saints of different faiths have demonstrated? Ever just try to bring your mind to focus/form a single cohesive picture by just looking though something common, like one diamond's facets? Or one crystal?
Neuroscience is going to develop tech do this? Get real. I'd like to see a list of everything you've contemplated doing with neurotech and I'll happily point out which ones I know are in the realm of normal human abilities. Man, I've spent 10 years researching, documenting the inventory of tested, proven abilities. Now I want to get away and develop an at will capability for a few of my faves. Despite my carping, the inner city is simply an inappropriate environment for some of this.
What, you're still in school? I was teaching at universities 4 years after high school, with a couple of degrees under my belt. I also creamed the sh*t out of people on the football and rugby fields.
Done the following yet? Gee, I wonder where they got their neuroscience technology in ancient Sumeria? Ever wonder why the ancient city states had rulers that were "Gods, fallen angels or cherubim" ? Ever wonder why these folks carped about the "incessant noise" from humans? Just what kind of "incessant noise" would a non machine society of those days make?
"Enki Renki Du!" (grin)
Do you understand the psi effect from "Out, out, damned spot!" in MacBeth by Shakespeare?
Or how about his picture from 1962 and my edited quote from www.aloha.net/~ruth/caduceus . I recommend reading this woman's book and articles on the web. The initial scientific information is from 1996. If you look at this picture upside down for instance, its a representation of the "World Tree" from Norse mythology.
Painted by Mihran K. Serailian, copyrighted to Manly P. Hall (1962). Damned are those that See Raelians!
This painting of the head of Minerva (Athena) shows, in part, the activities of the pineal gland and the pituitary body at the time of the phenomenon commonly termed "the opening of the Third Eye of the Mysteries." The Kundalini fire is seen rising upward through the spinal canal into the pons of the medulla oblongata. The golden light radiating from the base of the brain, at the back (the cerebellum, the 3rd highest crystalline brain organ, the centre of pre pubic thinking), gradually increases in size and intensity until it forms the nimbus, or halo of the saint. The pituitary body (the 2nd highest crystalline organ, aka in asatru "Odin's eye in Mimir's well" and "Land of the Rime Giants") is here shown surrounded by an elliptic rose aura. The pineal gland (the highest crystalline organ, aka. "the mountain")...the Third Eye of the Mysteries...is here depicted as blue in color and surrounded by a radiating blue aura. In reality, however, this aura includes within itself all the colors of the spectrum, but blue decidely predominates. The tiny vibrating finger on the pineal gland (aka. The Bifrost Rainbow Bridge in asatru) points directly toward the pituitary body. This finger, vibrating at a very high rate of speed, is the actual cause of true spiritual illumination, and completes the opening of the pituitary or brow chakra and first 2 eyes of the mysteries. The continued vibration (many months, even a year) is a precursor to the full activation of the pineal or crown chakra.
Do you claim to understand the "mechanics" of the "symptoms" she describes just on the one page from above?
| QUOTE |
| "I know that many times I heard thunder in my head as the Kundalini progressed on its journey. " "Kundalini, when it reaches the third eye, vibrates through the pineal like a waving finger or tail. In 1980, at one stage of the rising Kundalini, I could see and feel this fluctuating finger along with an intense buzzing; I could see both within at the vibrating pointing pineal sending signals to the pituitary, which was like looking through a moving curtain, and I could also see the outside world." "I have clairvoyantly seen my friend with five of these cobras. I understand from my own experience that they have a protective effect. I feel that the more of these hooded cobras are above the head, the more spiritually evolved is the being. " (Re the above picture and quote) "This confirms my own experience, and this picture is the only place I have seen such information revealed. So it is this vibration of the pineal that sets up the waves or frequencies that give human beings access to divine wisdom and knowledge. We join the frequency of the divine, we hear our higher self, and we can participate as cosmic citizens. We become omnipresent, omniscient as well." "Carey believes that the spirit filled human mind will create harmony, unity, cooperation, understanding and "becomes a transformational vortex, a channel through which universal awareness can flow into this physical world"(70). This is what I have also found with my spiritual awakening. The Kundalini snake found in the Caduceus, this ancient symbol, is a small remnant of former full human awareness, and a trigger to our remembering who we truly are and from which we can resurrect our knowledge." |
Here's again some ancient text describing the raising of the kundalini snake - essentialy the "energy" from the ganglia at the base of the spine, rising via the "sacrum" or "sacred bone", never mind doing this in reverse order, too:
Ahem, let me get "biblical" for a moment. Kaneh bosm (Manna from Heaven, or "Mur"-es-salaam) was consumed by the Hebrews during their exodus from Egypt, per the University of Jerusalem paper on the subject in the 1920's. Curiously enough this was around the time the head of Ontario's Orange Order (a Mason) had it banned in Canada...Hmmm. The biblical allegory of the time in the desert referred to them "raising their Kundalini" or "fire serpent". The quotes from the relevant sections of the (Catholic) bible, along with footnotes and misinterpretations is as follows:
| QUOTE |
| John 3:14 And just as Moses lifted up (5) the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, Footnotes: (5) [14] Lifted up: in Numbers 21:9 Moses simply "mounted" a serpent upon a pole. John (The mystic one) here substitutes a verb (why?) implying glorification. Jesus, exalted to glory at his cross and resurrection, represents healing for all. An Old Testament "Kundalini" and "Caduceus" allegory: Numbers 21:6 (4) ... the LORD sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. 7 Then the people came to Moses and said, "We have sinned in complaining against the LORD and you. Pray the LORD to take the serpents from us." So Moses prayed for the people, 8 (5) and the LORD said to Moses, "Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover." 9 (6) Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered. Footnotes: (4) [6] Saraph: the Hebrew name for a certain species of venomous snakes; the word probably signifies "the fiery one," these snakes being so called from the burning effect of their poisonous bite. (Heh, heh, not quite, although they did hedge their bets on the interpretation.) (5) If anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover: "and as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that those who believe in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting" (John 3:14-15). (6) [9] King Hezekiah, in his efforts to abolish idolatry, "smashed the bronze serpent which Moses had made" (2 Kings 18:4). |
Heh, heh, as for myself, I always enjoyed the "snake dance"!
Gee, lemme se, in one post we've touched on aspects from Hinduism, Norse Asatru, Roman/Greek paganism, Judaism and Christianity. Don't forget to look up from your instruments at times in the near future, you might miss the kids flying past the window of the lab.
Scientific endeavour in this area seems like a buyer who won't drive a car unless he/she "thinks they know" exactly how all the details work, were manufactured and every principle behind them. My "opus minimus" approach is to just get into the damn thing and drive! In retrospect, it might be useful to take a few driving lessons along the way as well.
Some things it took me ten years to figure out, other folks are now doing in two or three. I've read of other people's techniques in specific areas that have even a faster progression than this. I'm slow in certain areas by comparison. The only excuse I can offer is that as an older guy, it took a much longer time to mentally "deprogramme" myself in order to test and accept the "reprogramming".
If you want to be a "tech head" about it, simply take JC's advice about "being as little children to enter the kingdom of heaven" and compare the crystalline structures' functioning and environment pre and post puberty. Especially note the "change over" that occurs at puberty when the frontal lobes finish growing. Crap, I've even got zits again! Another type of "Out, out damned spot!"
JC might even prove to be a useful "muse" to have during this endeavour, but that's up to you.If neuroscience wants to be useful, figure out how to naturally grow the "active neural net" or the thinking aspect of the brain functioning into these crystalline structures in order to provide a continual source of thought controllable biochemical energy, electricity. Oh yeah, and without the "zits" effect!!
Have fun!
Red Dragon
Raven shaman
Dear Red Dragon
I am sure there is a great deal in what you say. I am not sure you are directing this posting to me or to Shawn but let me say this. If we are to compare the results of your quest and mine I think we can be quite specific.
For example you mention the success you had at school. I went into post-graduate studies right out of high school and it was the last year you could do that - in Public Accounting. I got the hgiest mark ever on the firm's apptitude test and fininshed the test in less than 15 minutes which was what the time limit was - most people never finished the test. The one question they marked me wrong on was one I debated with them and they agreed my explanation made sense. Anywho I did not stay in public accounting and I was soon an owner of a new and unique medium with eventually made me a millionaire. I was then admitted to a special program where non graduates got the chance to test out of a degree - after ten years successful business experience. I was selected by the students to represent them on the Master's program committee and had to get a far higher GMAT score - not to go into all the details.
You talk about your physical gifts and sports - well not long ago I had a 48 inch chest and wore 30 inch waisted pants. A top boxer and power lifter wanted to take me to Gold's Gym and bet on me against all the usual cretins - I did not do this - that was when I was 35.
You mention such things as de-materialization allows - I know this is true FROM personal experience.
You mention a machine - yours does not sound impressive and that is why you threw it out. I have worked with partners and have developed new technologies which were shelved by the big boys (Alternative ISDN) just as happened with Tesla. I have a design right now that could be said to be a manna machine. Tesla's great-great grand-niece worked for me in 1980 before you even had your first experience with ESP. I have dated the top international research ESPers from the FRNM and Esalen or Ram Dass (before 1975) and was offerred my own radio network show at that time.
I have done battle with those you seem like - and I have NEVER lost. I met Ed Tucker when I was 23 - he was a past president of the Yale Theosophical Society and the only Silva instructor who had not taken their courses as well as a member of the Hartford Institute of Living Panel on Parapsychology or the paranormal. He was only 28 at that time and he had been in charge of 13 covens in the area of New England. He and I did not do battle but we affected the wind and rain one night.
Other Ceremonial Masters who I did do battle with include Karen Getsla who was a top ESPer (one of the top six according to a Glasgow professor at a party she took me to at the head of The Psychical Research Foundation).
Your chest-beating or brow-beating of Shawn at this point is counter-productive and you do need to spend some time on the mountain. Listen intent(!)ly when you are there - try to de-toxify and see why Sai Baba took a whole bag of STP and LSD on his visit to SF in the late 70s or so. Just to show the head-trippers that their drugs were mere child's play. In fact seek out Lydia and Todd who developed a mountain-climbing Sutra and if you get Lydia alone ask her about my energy.
I am sure there is a great deal in what you say. I am not sure you are directing this posting to me or to Shawn but let me say this. If we are to compare the results of your quest and mine I think we can be quite specific.
For example you mention the success you had at school. I went into post-graduate studies right out of high school and it was the last year you could do that - in Public Accounting. I got the hgiest mark ever on the firm's apptitude test and fininshed the test in less than 15 minutes which was what the time limit was - most people never finished the test. The one question they marked me wrong on was one I debated with them and they agreed my explanation made sense. Anywho I did not stay in public accounting and I was soon an owner of a new and unique medium with eventually made me a millionaire. I was then admitted to a special program where non graduates got the chance to test out of a degree - after ten years successful business experience. I was selected by the students to represent them on the Master's program committee and had to get a far higher GMAT score - not to go into all the details.
You talk about your physical gifts and sports - well not long ago I had a 48 inch chest and wore 30 inch waisted pants. A top boxer and power lifter wanted to take me to Gold's Gym and bet on me against all the usual cretins - I did not do this - that was when I was 35.
You mention such things as de-materialization allows - I know this is true FROM personal experience.
You mention a machine - yours does not sound impressive and that is why you threw it out. I have worked with partners and have developed new technologies which were shelved by the big boys (Alternative ISDN) just as happened with Tesla. I have a design right now that could be said to be a manna machine. Tesla's great-great grand-niece worked for me in 1980 before you even had your first experience with ESP. I have dated the top international research ESPers from the FRNM and Esalen or Ram Dass (before 1975) and was offerred my own radio network show at that time.
I have done battle with those you seem like - and I have NEVER lost. I met Ed Tucker when I was 23 - he was a past president of the Yale Theosophical Society and the only Silva instructor who had not taken their courses as well as a member of the Hartford Institute of Living Panel on Parapsychology or the paranormal. He was only 28 at that time and he had been in charge of 13 covens in the area of New England. He and I did not do battle but we affected the wind and rain one night.
Other Ceremonial Masters who I did do battle with include Karen Getsla who was a top ESPer (one of the top six according to a Glasgow professor at a party she took me to at the head of The Psychical Research Foundation).
Your chest-beating or brow-beating of Shawn at this point is counter-productive and you do need to spend some time on the mountain. Listen intent(!)ly when you are there - try to de-toxify and see why Sai Baba took a whole bag of STP and LSD on his visit to SF in the late 70s or so. Just to show the head-trippers that their drugs were mere child's play. In fact seek out Lydia and Todd who developed a mountain-climbing Sutra and if you get Lydia alone ask her about my energy.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.