Anne, just to throw a twist on the meaningless conversation, I would like to discuss meaningful conversation. What is it? Who participates in it? Is it meaningful for all parties involved??? How can we take steps to make all of our conversations meaningful? Can we work at relationships that involve meaningless conversation, to make it more meaningful?

I will be thinking of some answers and examples for a reply to these questions. Anyone have anything to add? PLease post a reply if you do. I am interested in hearing many points of view on these topics!
Bye now, Dara

hello Dara,

I'd like to take up some of the interesting questions you posed,  though they seem to be difficult questions admitting no simple answer.  

Meaningful conversations seem to come in two varieties: 1) a conversation is meaningful, and its meaning is independent of the person you're having it with, and 2) a conversation is meaningful, and its meaning is crucially dependent on the person you're having it with.

In the first type, the particular content of the conversation holds meaning for you, whereas the person whom you converse with is not important.  This type of meaningful conversation is self-centered.   But in the second type, the particular content of the conversation is not necessarily meaningful, but it's the interaction with the other person, the closeness the conversation induces, or a new awareness of that other person that takes you beyond your self-centered viewpoint that becomes meaningful.

So, in practical terms, if we wish to make conversations more meaningful, we must decide on which of the two types we should try to employ, and hope that the other person whom we converse with will follow suit, otherwise, we may choose to adapt to the situation and to the type of meaningful conversation that your partner is trying to instantiate.

Alrighty, that's all for now.

take care,

Shawn

Shawn, I like your ideas here. I can see that the categories of meaningful conversations you have posted happen all the time while interacting with others.
Did you ever have a conversation going, and you feel the topic is interesting and important, and the other person is barely listening, barely participating? I guess this would be the type of conversation where the content is meaningful, not the person you are conversing with! I find this occurs most often in my Masters program of all places! I feel for my professors, as they get us students after our long work days, and we are all not interested in class! THe profesor has important information to communicate, and it is not dependant on the reciever of the information.  Basically, there could be a lecture with or without the students, and I tell you, even though we are present in body, most of us are NOT present in mind!
I will try to give an example of the 2nd type of commuication you mentioned Shawn, a bit later! Time for bed now!
Alles Gute, Dara

I don't think you can have a meaningful conversation if both parties are not fully engaged in the topic. One person may learn something from a conversation in which the other party is not participating but what he or she usually learns is that the other party is bored.
The most meaningful conversations occur when both parties feel heard and understood by the one receiving
their beliefs, wisdom or values. Often what appears to be meaningful conversation is a distancer for topics that would get to the heart of a matter but are too hot to handle by one or the other participant at that moment in time. Enlightenment can come later, as one rehashes the conversation while driving home or in a quiet moment. The discovery for one individual doesn't make it a meaningful conversation--it becomes inspiration: the right thing said at the right time.
Janice

I got tired of meaningless conversations at family gettogethers that revolved around, "Did you come up I95 or did you take the Merritt Parkway?" I thought there *had* to be more to life than the price of cottage cheese and how tall I'd grown. So, I tried this experiment and use it whenever I want to get out of a conversation that is clearly going nowhere (not even up the Merritt!) I look the talker straight in the eye, give him or her a big smile and say, "That's absolutely fascinating! It's *so* fascinating that I just *can't* listen anymore!" I smile again and leave. To date, no one has realized what I've just said. They smile back and go on to bore the next victim. I've tried this at family reunions, company Christmas parties, people sitting next to me on airplanes and have never yet been called on the carpet. People don't listen and this proves they are not.
Try it sometime and see for yourself.

Sincerely,
Janice

Thanks for the twist, Peta! I now look at this totally different.

Love, Dara

Hi Toneta,

Does conversation prop up society or is it the glue that holds us together? What is the inherent message in: "Go away. I never want to see you again." Is it meant literally by the speaker? Is it believed by the recipient? Is it important to tell the truth every single time? Dare you ask, "Is that a large, dead bass half-cocked on your head or did you buy a simply dreadful, smelly hat?" What is the meaning of life? Don't ask me, I can't even get ice cubes out of a tray.

Delightful to hear from you, as always!

Janice

Shawn has actually captured my behaviour concerning 'conversation',
I find myself showing no interest in any person if I don't find that their/our conversation doesn't 'bear fruits'.
It is the wish to go beyond the usual, every day small talk/general conversation and gaining insight-
- that's why we come here  
to exchange ideas, thoughts-
in order to achieve... a sort of 'meaningful conversation/communication'

the problem with meaningful conversation thru a messageboard or any other written medium is that it's difficult to convey tone.  Sure, there are smileys and all that   , but these often fail to accurately convey one's tone.  And so what are we left with?  We're left with a written message or posting that can be interpreted in multiple different ways, where differences in denotations, connotations, and tone convey entirely different messages.  Can anyone say that they've really captured the meaning of someone's post?  Of course, each post has multiple meanings and interpretations, and so what we're usually interested in is the meaning the author had in mind, and our even having a chance to figure this out is crucially dependent on the author's proficiency of communicating his meaning thru words.  But even if the author's proficient, then we still have the problem of multiple interpretations of the written word.

So what's my tone and meaning behind this message?  Looking over the above paragraph, I see there are many ways to interpret it, but which one's correct?  Hmmm, it's seems that I've forgotten already.  So does that make this post meaningless?  Not if we're not concerned with the meaning that I, as author, was trying to convey, but rather are concerned with the meaning we're able to extract from it.  

So where does that place meaningful conversation on a message board?  Is it possible given that there are so many ways to interpret a post and its tone, and that we can be equally interested in the meaning that the author is trying to convey, as well as the meaning that we're able to personally extract from a post, independent of the author's meaning?  

Or is this post just meaningless?  

Dear Peta,

    Many thanks for the strong points you present in your reply. I am usually exhausted by family dialogues that seem to duck the critical issues and rely on meaningless conversation to make extended contact possible. I agree with you that we must be perceived as harmless, even at family dinners, or we would shortly end up in a food fight. However, I think many hostilities
are stabbed into conversation under the guise of "good manners." The "why did you do that?" question that begs an explanation but is really a criticism of whatever it was one has decided to do. Likewise, gossip about a non-present third party seeks to belittle someone to make the gossiper feel in control or good.
Do you think conversational constructs are all about control? Who has it? Who doesn't? How can all be included in a conversation without it degenerating into total meaninglessness? What are the best ways of expressing ourselves so we can share our values, beliefs, be heard and understood? I look forward to your input. Many thanks for your previous reply.

Janice

In reply to you Peta, I think the key factor for me in any form of communication, especially written forum, would be the ability to get on a level with someone. If you talk of things, that one finds hard to understand, you will lose them. The ability to provoke thought on someone is good, too. I prefer to keep things short and to the point as to avoid dragging the subject out and boring the poor soul listening or reading. Other added ingredients as you mentioned that are helpful would be the grammer, punctuation, spelling etc. All in all, personalization, having a point, and being creative verbally or written are a bonus in my corner. If you the writer or talker are transcribing a message be interested in it yourself. Set the stage.

Dear Shawn, Dara, Lindsey, Fran and Peta,

I have a family that seldom listens. Everybody is interested in telling stories, not about themselves, but about others. To illustrate this point: Every year at Thanksgiving, the immediate 22 members of our family join my father for dinner at his house. Inevitably, like swallows coming back to Capistrano, my father tells the story of how I gave up smoking. He claims he told me it was okay for me to smoke on the porch but I couldn't smoke in the house. The phone kept ringing and I had to keep stubbing out my cigarettes until finally, I got disgusted, and quit smoking. There is only one small problem: I've never smoked. As Bill Clinton says, I never inhaled. I still don't know how to nor do I care to learn. I've told my Dad repeatedly, in front of everyone,
"This never happened." He tells it again as if he never heard me. (He hasn't!)

One year, I couldn't stand it anymore. I set it up with each member at the table to give the same answer when he started his tale of my smoking career.
The first person to interrupt him was my brother, "Why, that's an amazing coincidence! That's how *I* gave up smoking. I was standing on the porch when the phone kept ringing..." My father continued talking through him.
Every person at the table said the same thing..."Why, what a coincidence...I was out on the porch and *my* phone kept ringing and the next thing you know..."
My father finished the whole story and got to the next to last person at the table saying, "Now wait til you hear this, that's how I gave up smoking," when he said, "Hey!" Like he finally heard the last person. But that didn't stop it. He's told that story so many times, he believes it. It's a running joke in my family. It's not funny, not to me anyway. I feel invisible--like there's some kind of veiled hostility that he would continue to tell something that clearly is not true and makes me feel uncomfortable. I have a close relationship with my father so maybe I'm reading too much into this story but it seems to me we could talk about something true and interesting like my Masters Degree Thesis, the price of tea in China, or where I can get cigarettes at a discount! Opinions please?

Janice

Dear Peta,

Thank you for your understanding, compassion and new direction to take in solving this problem. I have confronted my Dad publicly and privately, asking him to drop this story, explaining my feelings. He persists as if he's never heard my request. However, your suggestion that he might feel he has nothing to add to the family talk around the table could very well be a valid one; enabling me to cut him some slack. I also like the idea of everyone abandoning ship to meet out on the porch.
He might get a bigger kick out of talking about that. I will try to draw my Dad out about his life, work and activities more. Perhaps *I* am the one who isn't listening?

Many thanks for your input.
Sincerely,
Janice

I'm new, but I've looked at this site before. I have a research paper to do, but get this; I can't think of anything I really want to do that i can put my passion into. I find it a waste of time to argue my opion on something when it will just be tossed out later. Help or ideas would be great! P.S I often stop talking to people cause it's a waste of time and it feels useless, but then everyone seems to think I'm just pist off. I'm usually a very talkative person, but people don't understand why i don't speak to them sometimes. After a while they don't listen so i just shut up and say screw it. I'm not going to waste my time talking to someone who won't listen. Then other days I"m just annoyed and all I can think is that people talk to much about things that really don't seem to matter as much as they should.......
And Shawn, this is an amazing site! and your intellect rocks!

How about doing a research paper on social interactions, this way it will benefit you and the reader. You can do it on the art of "listening" or being an effective listener. You can study people in resturants, at parks,  in your home, wherever...even on the phone. You can watch sopmrone on the phone and write if they are giving their attention to the phone, doing other things at the same time! I think this would be interesting for you ,as you wrote about not wanting to talk because others are not listening anyhow!

Good luck to you!

Love, Dara