have you ever noticed how society has so many ... nicetties..... like.... "how are you" (though you really could care less its just something you say) and then "im fine" (even though you know your not fine and you feel as though your world is about to fall apart you still say you are fine because that is the answer you are automaticly suposed to say) why do you send so much time trying to act like we care about things we don't. and if we do are about how someone is don't ask how are you because you'll just get the answer that tells you nothing......
Anne

hello EyeKandi,

interesting observation, one I've thought about too.  Here are some of my thoughts on the matter.

Nicetties and all sorts of banal, empty pleasantries and phrases enable society to function more smoothly, albeit more machine-like and with less sincerity.

For example, I conclude most of my posts and emails with 'Take care,' but do you think I've really thought about it or have any deep, sincere feelings associated with that phrase, or do you think it's more of a nicettie, or a habit, or something of a tool I use that enables me to conclude my communications more smoothly and something I think the other person might appreciate?  

Of course, whether nicetties are considered meaningless is to some extent dependent on the personality of the person you ask.  Someone who's very outgoing and extraverted will probably tend to find them useful, like tools, or stepping stones, to get to know other people or remain on good terms with them.  However, the more introverted individual will likely find such chit-chat and nicetties altogether meaningless and will keep to themselves, not communicating much with most people since the only way one can communicate with them is thru empty, meaningless phrases.  

So, you're stuck with people either regarding nicetties are useful, and to that extent, meaningful, or people that regard nicetties as meaningless and empty.  And there's a third group of people, too.  These people don't ever think about such questions as the meaningfulness of nicetties, and in general, are a rather thoughtless and dull group, so no further mention of them will be made.

Now, if you fall within the second camp and regard them as meaningless, then what you're dealing with  fundamentally is the question of how to communicate sincerely and meaningfully with other people, and that runs into the problem of faithfully and accurately communicating internal states, desires, and emotions to another person, in which it's implicit that the other person can understand what you're trying to communicate because you both share a common range of experiences and you both understand each other.

In any event, while I certainly sympathize with people that find such nicetties as meaningless, I nonetheless am a pragmatist and regard them as potentially useful tools that should be used as stepping stones, for leverage, or for making interactions flow more smoothly, even though I know that considered in themselves, without consideration for their usefulness, they are indeed meaningless.

Take care,

Shawn

I think nicetties work well in situations where we have to be friendly to others,as in meeting new people, relating to co-workers, or when we don't have time for a detailed conversation. I would rather have a breif conversation of nicetties, than no conversation at all. At least there is an acknowledgment of eachother in a friendly manner.
Tjough, if you are talking to a relative or close friend, there should be more thought into the conversation if that is how the relationship goes. I know some people who are very "surface", and only want to give basic info about themselves, only want to know basic info about others. That works well for them. For me personally, when I am good friends with someone, I try to be more deep in my conversations, to get to the core of the person. I believe it is all relative to the relationship though.
Nicetties can be good to have a conversation with a classmate for example, but if the only conversation you ever have with your mother consists of niceitties, then it feels odd(I speak from personal experience here!).
These are just my opinions on a good topic brought up by Anne, and a good discussion that was continued by Shawn!
Bye now, Dara

Hello to everyone! I was enticed by this topic of debate because I recently wrote a poem about this. I definitely notice in today's society, that we put a smile on to hide our true feelings and emotions sometimes just to get thru the day. We ask another how they are, merely in my opinion, out of habit and sometimes just to step out of ourselves and extend a friendly gesture. I find it a bit annoying at times. We play the social game becuase it has been engrained in us. If we all walked around crying and frowning we probably would be avoided. I believe some of you mentioned that it has a way of keeping the conversation flowing and goin smoothly. It does and I have to remember it's only etiquette to be decent in public and remembering you can't be "real" with everyone. Thank you guys!

Could there be a connexion between these social pleasantries and the social/ritual behaviours displayed by other animals? Birds do it, bees do it, i'm not sure if educated fleas do it... but all the animals i can think of that live in groups seem to have developed sets of behaviours like this.
i always see the same young lady at the grocery store, and we always have the same ritual interaction: she says "How are you?" or some variation, and i say, "Good," no matter how i'm really feeling, "how you doin?" or some variation, and she says "good!" and that's the end of it, unless we talk about the weather.
Horses blow into eachother's nostrils as a ritual greeting, elephants and termites have their little social behaviours.
So i'm suggesting that while each individual interaction by itself seems pretty meaningless, there really is a deeper meaning behind our fake smiles and smalltalk, but you gotta look at the big picture to see it.  isopraxism? i'm not really even sure i know what that means, does it relate?
i just thought of this: smiling and waving at people. Driving around or standing on the street, you can wave "hi!" at total strangers and more often than not they will wave "hi!" right back at you. In and of itself it seems pretty meaningless, but i think what's going on is that you're sayin to eachother "we are connected, we're part of the same group!" and when they smile and wave back it's like a built-in automatic response.
In this context that things like "It's pretty cold out there, eh?" make total sense.
whatcha think?

Interesting, Peta! Thanks for explaining that to us. So, you have done some research in the area of sociology? Can you tell us a bit more? I would love to know!

Love, Dara

Dear Shawn,

Your ideas on pleasantries and other social graces that grease our presence among others has many good points. Writing "Take care" at the end of your emails is a good closing. Yours is neither too cloying nor an undying declaration of love (which would be unbelievable). "Take care" implies you are glad we responded and are interested in continuing the dialogue.

Because I write copy for a living, I have become saturated with the phoney greetings and flotsom and jetsam that clutter up our communications with each other. "How are you?" certainly does NOT mean that I want a blow-by-blow account of your every illness or trials and tribulations down to the last nano-second. Because I seek to avoid these meltdowns into the cheeze-whiz of hypocrisy, I try to think of a statement that will be less difficult for me to live with. I haven't come up with the magic wand to avoid all of these situations, in which I find myself repeating the same old blabberings. Every time I think I've discovered the silver bullet, I run into a werewolf that's impervious to it.
Call Buffy the Vampire Slayer!

Janice

Dear Toneta and Evad,

There is a good book out by Howard Bloom called,
"The Lucifer Principle." It explains why we will never have peace in this world, expounding on the chickens picking on the lowest ranking bird in the henhouse.
There is a particularly telling Chapter III: "Mother Nature, You Bloody Bitch." It's out of print now but if you can find it in a used book store, it's worth having.
There's a lot to be learned from paradigms--maybe in time to save this old world from another war yet.

All the best,
Janice

Dear EyeKandi,

As you can tell from my posts, I've been going around saying some outrageous things to my family and friends
(as I've confessed here) and none of them have been offended...which proves they haven't been listening.

Nuff said,

Janice

I aggree with toneta .

it really is a form of conformity-
it's common, usual... and polite behaviour,
It is how you sell yourself
- or how you want to sell yourself-
it even comes automatic sometimes since we, in our past may have found that it works best for us, or we believe it works best for us.

whats that phrase? -'stroking' someone?
Touch is a physical nessesity for growing mammals.  Without touch during infancy, their nervous systems dont develop like they should -or something to that effect.  BS social interraction boils down to giving others 'strokes' on a symbolic and impersonal level...you basically confirm the other persons existance ('ego') for them.  Have you ever been/felt slighted when someone fails to acknowledge you?  Why?  Really ask yourself 'why?' until you arrive at a solid awnser.

Just my stinky two-cent opinion (really, I have no opinions, only a fragmented collage of things that Ive heard/experienced in the past...I dont seem to have much of a 'me' that is really my own).  Please ignore my rambling, I am only doing this to make my 'self' feel better. ??? :-X

when some one asks if you are ok and you lie than your not being honest.  You should focas on being completely truthful and honest with yourself and every one. Work towards not being ashamed or afraid.
Truthfulness is the key to being in the best situations.
Those who critisize your truthfulness are in confusion.

Dear Franziska, Mr. Monkey and River,

Have you ever wondered if you are presenting yourself in a difficult light that doesn't fully shine on your talents?
I think the social niceties such as "How are you?" can mean different things when asked by different people.
From a best friend, those words may mean, "Tell me all, how you really are." From your boss, it may be a veiled question about the quality (or lack) of your work. From a casual acquaintance, you may be required to give the short form. I may ask if you have heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls in a case where we are meeting for the first time but that doesn't necessarily mean I want you to recite every word of them to me chapter and verse. The Chinese practice a thing called heart mindfulness. Lightly translated, it's being aware of our affect on others whenever we interact. When we reach out from a point of kindness and consideration, no matter what kind of news we are sharing with friend or foe, lover or stranger, we are making the world a better place. Just my thoughts.

(I've had a lot of trouble with my computer and have really missed signing on to share these forums with all of you. Hi Dara, Hi Shawn, hi everybody!)

Peace,
Janice

I agree with you, of course 'how are you?' is going to have different meanings in different contexts.  My point is that even though one may not actually want to hear a direct awnser when they ask such a question, they are still bothering to acknoledge your existance- still giving you a stroke- no matter how shallow and empty.   I used to take offense and refuse to participate in such 'phoneyness' as I used to call it.  Now I see its function, and also understand how inappropriate it would bee to have to perform a long, drawn out greeting ritual with every familiar face I see out on the street.

Nothing wrong with performing hollow social ritual- in fact, its a great opportunity to practice 'loving kindness'  .

ps. I am painfully aware that I will never bee able to express/present myself the way 'I' would like (a way that would show the 'real' me -talents and all).   I have joyfully given up that burden (well, at least I have been striving to bee aware of that behavior when it arrises so as to allow for some deflation/let it go).  

I look forward to looking past the illusion...right here, right now.  As you can see- Im still quite confused and delusional.