Magnetism can be utilized to do some astounding things. If you look up the effect magnetism has on people on the internet you will find articles that state it has little, if any effect at all, but this is light-years from the truth. Magnetism has an enormous influence on every aspect of our lives, including our physical and mental development.
Experiments that were undertaken to determine the effects magnetism has on living organisms failed to show consistent results. There is a good reason that this happened. The researchers considered the North and South poles of a magnet to be essentially the same, but they are not. Albert Roy Davis discovered that the two poles are separate and distinct energies. The North pole effects living organisms in the opposite manner as the South pole. With this law of magnetism established you can use a particular magnetic pole and get exact and precise results each and every time you perform the experiment. Despite the fact that many of the discoveries of Albert Roy Davis have been duplicated thousands of times by scientists around the world, mainstream science still does not acknowledge, accept or use them.
This article has some fascinating information about his discoveries. We can now tap into the amazing potential of the human mind to an extent that has never been possible in recorded history, and here is how you can do it. Type "The Scope of Biomagnetism" on a search engine and you'll find the article on the teslatech website.
Full Version: Increasing Intelligence And ESP With Magnetism
Transcender, is this the site to which you are referring?
http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/report/a...n1art/scope.htm
This is the first time I have been made aware that the difference between the North Pole and the South Pole. Very interesting.
http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/report/a...n1art/scope.htm
This is the first time I have been made aware that the difference between the North Pole and the South Pole. Very interesting.
QUESTIONS
Is the following, from the link I posted, factual? And is this the first such experiment?
I have friend, Dr. Ron B, who, at my age (77) is still active as a chiropractor/naturopath/homeopath. He recently helped me overcome, in record time, a severe ear infection. He is a great advocate of applying magnetic energy, especially to the water we drink. I use magnets in this way. I must ask him about this.
Is the following, from the link I posted, factual? And is this the first such experiment?
I have friend, Dr. Ron B, who, at my age (77) is still active as a chiropractor/naturopath/homeopath. He recently helped me overcome, in record time, a severe ear infection. He is a great advocate of applying magnetic energy, especially to the water we drink. I use magnets in this way. I must ask him about this.
QUOTE
MIND/BODY REASEARCH
==========================
Not only has our research gone into the frequencies of the brain, but it has also encompassed increasing the sensitivity of the mind through application of magnetic energy. Our work began with small animals with a reasonably short life span. Mice were the first animals selected to be used in a series of experiments to determine the effects of magnetism on their brains and bodies.
Twelve mice were placed in a cage to be used as controls (untreated). Another twelve mice were placed in a separate cage with exposure to the South pole field of a 2000 gauss magnet, and the last twelve were put in a cage exposed to the North pole energies of a like magnet. An equal number of males and females were put in each cage. Exposure time was two months.
The untreated control mice behaved and functioned as normal mice. Without exception, the South pole mice slowly became very messy in their housekeeping, their appetites increased, they engaged in sex more, and their offspring were larger than those of the controls. Also, as time passed, they became mentally slow, loosing sensitivity to sound and light changes in the laboratory. Their young were difficult to teach the customary tests; they were lazy, listless, careless and very dirty in appearance.
The North pole mice became very neat and tidy, cleaning themselves frequently. They also became extremely sensitive to any noise or light variations in the laboratory. Their offspring were smaller than those of the controls. They were mentally superior to the controls and out performed the South pole young by several hundred percent in all phases of natural behavior ... (There is more)...
==========================
Not only has our research gone into the frequencies of the brain, but it has also encompassed increasing the sensitivity of the mind through application of magnetic energy. Our work began with small animals with a reasonably short life span. Mice were the first animals selected to be used in a series of experiments to determine the effects of magnetism on their brains and bodies.
Twelve mice were placed in a cage to be used as controls (untreated). Another twelve mice were placed in a separate cage with exposure to the South pole field of a 2000 gauss magnet, and the last twelve were put in a cage exposed to the North pole energies of a like magnet. An equal number of males and females were put in each cage. Exposure time was two months.
The untreated control mice behaved and functioned as normal mice. Without exception, the South pole mice slowly became very messy in their housekeeping, their appetites increased, they engaged in sex more, and their offspring were larger than those of the controls. Also, as time passed, they became mentally slow, loosing sensitivity to sound and light changes in the laboratory. Their young were difficult to teach the customary tests; they were lazy, listless, careless and very dirty in appearance.
The North pole mice became very neat and tidy, cleaning themselves frequently. They also became extremely sensitive to any noise or light variations in the laboratory. Their offspring were smaller than those of the controls. They were mentally superior to the controls and out performed the South pole young by several hundred percent in all phases of natural behavior ... (There is more)...
Yes, that is the correct link, and yes, it is factual information. Not only will magnetic energy affect the development of animals, but plants as well. I have personally experimented with plant seeds, and the different effects of the North and South poles are quite clear. Most plant species will grow best with South pole exposure, but some do better with North pole exposure. It all depends on the species, and even some varieties of the same species show differents effects when they're exposed to the same magnetic pole. It's very complex.
In the first book by Davis and Rawls, Magnetism and Its Effects on the Living System, they describe how Davis made the discovery (accidentally) that the North and South poles are different, detailed results of years of experiments with different species of plants and animals, and how magnetic energy can be used to eliminate many diseases, including cancer. In addition, they proved that magnetic energy does not circle from the South pole of the earth up to the North pole, it circles from the South pole to the equator, where it reverses its polarity, and then circles up to the North pole, and vice-versa, forming a figure eight (as is explained briefly in the article). Davis and Rawls list dozens of doctors and scientists in the book who have duplicated many of their experiments, and after the books were published, thousands more confirmed the discoveries of Davis and Rawls by doing their own experiments.
Dr. B is correct about drinking magnetized water (I drink it too), but make sure it is North pole magnetized water, not bipolar or South pole water. The South pole is dangerous because it will increase growth indiscriminately, so if you have an infection, a virus, or cancer, it will promote its growth and that can be deadly.
In the first book by Davis and Rawls, Magnetism and Its Effects on the Living System, they describe how Davis made the discovery (accidentally) that the North and South poles are different, detailed results of years of experiments with different species of plants and animals, and how magnetic energy can be used to eliminate many diseases, including cancer. In addition, they proved that magnetic energy does not circle from the South pole of the earth up to the North pole, it circles from the South pole to the equator, where it reverses its polarity, and then circles up to the North pole, and vice-versa, forming a figure eight (as is explained briefly in the article). Davis and Rawls list dozens of doctors and scientists in the book who have duplicated many of their experiments, and after the books were published, thousands more confirmed the discoveries of Davis and Rawls by doing their own experiments.
Dr. B is correct about drinking magnetized water (I drink it too), but make sure it is North pole magnetized water, not bipolar or South pole water. The South pole is dangerous because it will increase growth indiscriminately, so if you have an infection, a virus, or cancer, it will promote its growth and that can be deadly.
enough with the pseudoscience already
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 30, 2007, 09:17 PM) 
enough with the pseudoscience already
It does not encourage dialogue.
I have to admit that I as well am quite skeptical of this.
QUOTE(Hudzon @ Dec 31, 2007, 09:11 AM)
I have to admit that I as well am quite skeptical of this.
QUOTE
So am I. But I am willing to dialogue. Wasn't Thomas Edison very skeptical about the ideas of Nicola Tesla? Which one proved to be right?
You misunderstand! My intention wasn't to dismiss the idea, but to instigate a reply that would shed my veil of skepticism;
QUOTE(Hudzon @ Dec 31, 2007, 03:48 PM)
QUOTE
So am I. But I am willing to dialogue. Wasn't Thomas Edison very skeptical about the ideas of Nicola Tesla? Which one proved to be right?
You misunderstand! My intention wasn't to dismiss the idea, but to instigate a reply that would shed my veil of skepticism;
I have many. For example, do we have any experts among us who are willing to guide us in separating science from pseudo-science?
The September 1990 issue of the Journal of the National Medical Association , Volume 82, Number 9, had a study in it that confirmed Davis' discovery that the North and South poles are different. It was titled "Evolving Perspectives on the Exposure Risks from Magnetic Fields". In the study the North pole of a 3.5 kilogauss magnet dramatically slowed the growth of cancer cells over a period of 144 hours, while the South pole increased the growth of the cancer cells.
Morris Tischler, inventor of the first solid-state pacemaker, experimented on his own with magnets after successfully using them for his chronic pain, and ultimately ended up writing a manual titled, "Biomagnetics in Complementary Medicine". Tischler consulted with Walter Rawls (from the Albert Roy Davis lab) while writing the manual. The Science Instruments Company is his company.
The Albert Roy Davis lab developed a technology that uses magnetism in the bioremediation process. Biomagnetic Bioremediation, as it's called, works better than any other technology. You can read about it here at the bottom of the page. worldwideweb(www).unep.or.jp/ietc/Publications/INSIGHT/Sum-95/7.asp
Buckminster Fuller, Hans Selye, Dean Burk, and others have all been supporters of the work of Davis and Rawls. If you don't recognize their names, do a search on google about them.
Pseudoscience? Better spend a bit more time researching before you make such an ignorant statement.
Morris Tischler, inventor of the first solid-state pacemaker, experimented on his own with magnets after successfully using them for his chronic pain, and ultimately ended up writing a manual titled, "Biomagnetics in Complementary Medicine". Tischler consulted with Walter Rawls (from the Albert Roy Davis lab) while writing the manual. The Science Instruments Company is his company.
The Albert Roy Davis lab developed a technology that uses magnetism in the bioremediation process. Biomagnetic Bioremediation, as it's called, works better than any other technology. You can read about it here at the bottom of the page. worldwideweb(www).unep.or.jp/ietc/Publications/INSIGHT/Sum-95/7.asp
Buckminster Fuller, Hans Selye, Dean Burk, and others have all been supporters of the work of Davis and Rawls. If you don't recognize their names, do a search on google about them.
Pseudoscience? Better spend a bit more time researching before you make such an ignorant statement.
The claim that weak magnets exert significant biological effects is false; hence, it's pseudoscience on a par with astrology and phrenology. Where, specifically, does Buckminster Fuller support magnetic effects on biological systems?
Read the endorsements page on the Albert Roy Davis lab website, and read "World Awaits" under the "In The Labs" section of articles while your at it to read about some of their other supporters.
When it comes to magnets and their effects on living organisms you know nothing. You've been listening to and trusting the mainstream media. Big mistake.
When it comes to magnets and their effects on living organisms you know nothing. You've been listening to and trusting the mainstream media. Big mistake.
Magnetism and my health. The one thing I know at this point is this: At 77, my health has benefitted, greatly, from the judicious use of magnetism, especially the use of magnetised water. I have no need to take any prescribed drugs.
Meanwhile, I await with an open mind for more and scientific evidence. If I am wrong, I will gladly stand to be proved wrong. Anyone interested: send me a PM and I will tell you about the kind of magnetised water I use and where I get it.
Meanwhile, I await with an open mind for more and scientific evidence. If I am wrong, I will gladly stand to be proved wrong. Anyone interested: send me a PM and I will tell you about the kind of magnetised water I use and where I get it.
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 31, 2007, 10:08 PM)
The claim that weak magnets exert significant biological effects is false; hence, it's pseudoscience on a par with astrology and phrenology. Where, specifically, does Buckminster Fuller support magnetic effects on biological systems?
Lucid is right, I looked into the effects of electromagnetism on the cellular level some time ago. My findings were that the level of required energy to cause significant changes to the chemical structure of the body and/or any changes in the way in which your body is polarized is far to high to be taken seriously.
The level of required energy is dangerously high to be able to cause system wide changes to the body and/or induce polarization in the human body. We are talking 16 Tesla's just to cause a frogs body to become charged in a positive/negative manner, never mind a humans.
neodymium-iron-boron (NdFeB) has a strength of about 1.25 T. A coin-sized neodymium magnet can lift more than 9 kg.
Do you have any idea how much energy 16 Tesla's is? There is no way you can get that kind of energy out of the earth, the field is to dispersed and much weaker.
Even if you took an electromagnet and put it right up against the human body it is nowhere near strong enough. An MRI has only 1.5 - 3 T in field strength. The size of the electromagnet alone required to achieve such things is staggering.
The claim is ridiculous, the earth does not produce anywhere near a strong enough magnetic field strength to generate those kinds of changes.
Lindsay as far as magnetized water goes, first of all water is diamagnetic so it cant be magnetized. Secondly it depends on the field strength which determines what (if any) changes occur to the chemical structure of the water. It is however true that ionization can purify water. Essentially you are putting an electric current through the water and using that to purify the water - this is the current method of purification at most water bottling facilities.
The mind creates amazing results with objects of interest.
Here is a tiny fraction of the studies that have been done. If you'll take a few minutes to scan the page you'll find that some of these studies used static magnets, the same type used in magnet therapy. Go to consumerhealthreviews dot com, on the articles page, and read the "Effect of Magnetic Therapy on Physical Ailments".
Every book by Davis and Rawls has numerous references in it of previous studies. Gary Null's book, Healing with Magnets, has an entire chapter that is full of studies, and again, some of them were with static magnets. The evidence is overwhelming that magnet therapy works and this evidence is available to those who want it. For those of you who choose to pretend it doesn't exist, your blind bias is obvious. You can say the world is flat, man will never fly, and the sun orbits the earth, but that doesn't make it true. For some people ignorance is bliss, but I'm not one of them.
Every book by Davis and Rawls has numerous references in it of previous studies. Gary Null's book, Healing with Magnets, has an entire chapter that is full of studies, and again, some of them were with static magnets. The evidence is overwhelming that magnet therapy works and this evidence is available to those who want it. For those of you who choose to pretend it doesn't exist, your blind bias is obvious. You can say the world is flat, man will never fly, and the sun orbits the earth, but that doesn't make it true. For some people ignorance is bliss, but I'm not one of them.
Again this is dependent on who is conducting the studies and in what manner. There are many studies which claim to be scientific (parapsychology studies) but are in fact very unscientific.
Just because there are many studies on something does not suddenly make something true.
All of this dependent upon the hypothesis. If they are inducing electromagnetic frequencies at the brain via TMS then obviously certain mental and possibly physical aliments can be alleviated. If you are talking about using electromagnetic waves to change the chemical structure of animal cells then I would say you have been blessed with supreme ignorance of science.
If you are talking about using electromagnetic waves to send signals to individual cells to cause a change in it's current functions then this may or may not be possible. First of all one would need to analyze the threshold required to penetrate 7 layers of skin. Then you would need to put forth a theory as to why an electromagnetic frequency would cause the cells to change. Again you can't just simply say look low power electromagnetic fields cause changes to the body - all these people did studies.
There are tens of thousands of studies conducted on cold fusion yet here is the problem. Cold fusion experiments cannot be reproduced on a consistent basis. Therefore because the experiment does not produce consistent data - it is not accepted by the general scientific community.
I highly doubt that this is a real scientific study, probably some parapsychologists trying to sell more books. The threshold required for a magnetic field to penetrate through the skin and cause significant effects on the cells in your body is vastly higher then what the average magnet produces.
Again you are really the blind one for believing that just because there have been a number of studies conducted on something - that it should instantly make it true. There needs to be consistently reproducible data and a supporting hypothesis. Alls I am seeing is data, which can still be chopped up to the placebo effect, yes I know there are some double blind studies - however, the data received (especially from parapsychologists) is often unreliable.
Just because there are many studies on something does not suddenly make something true.
All of this dependent upon the hypothesis. If they are inducing electromagnetic frequencies at the brain via TMS then obviously certain mental and possibly physical aliments can be alleviated. If you are talking about using electromagnetic waves to change the chemical structure of animal cells then I would say you have been blessed with supreme ignorance of science.
If you are talking about using electromagnetic waves to send signals to individual cells to cause a change in it's current functions then this may or may not be possible. First of all one would need to analyze the threshold required to penetrate 7 layers of skin. Then you would need to put forth a theory as to why an electromagnetic frequency would cause the cells to change. Again you can't just simply say look low power electromagnetic fields cause changes to the body - all these people did studies.
There are tens of thousands of studies conducted on cold fusion yet here is the problem. Cold fusion experiments cannot be reproduced on a consistent basis. Therefore because the experiment does not produce consistent data - it is not accepted by the general scientific community.
I highly doubt that this is a real scientific study, probably some parapsychologists trying to sell more books. The threshold required for a magnetic field to penetrate through the skin and cause significant effects on the cells in your body is vastly higher then what the average magnet produces.
Again you are really the blind one for believing that just because there have been a number of studies conducted on something - that it should instantly make it true. There needs to be consistently reproducible data and a supporting hypothesis. Alls I am seeing is data, which can still be chopped up to the placebo effect, yes I know there are some double blind studies - however, the data received (especially from parapsychologists) is often unreliable.
A number of jurisdictions prohibit the marketing of magnetic therapy products with the claim that they offer any therapeutic effects. In the United States, for example, FDA regulations render it illegal to market a magnet therapy product that claims to treat any "significant" condition such as cancer, HIV, AIDS, asthma, arthritis, or rheumatism.
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_therapy)
This article at QuackWatch is also worth reading, and concludes that there is no scientific basis to conclude that small, static magnets can relieve pain or influence the course of any disease. In fact, many of today's products produce no significant magnetic field at or beneath the skin's surface.
And you want to know about Buckminster Fuller's "endorsement"? Here it is, verbatim:
"It seems reasonable to me that such an electromagnetic field of right tuning and intensity might include an increased proximity of atoms within molecules."
Doesn't sound much like an endorsement, does it? In fact, it's not an endorsement for anything, and certainly not for "magnetic therapy".
Listen Transcender, either you've been duped, or you gain to profit from selling little magnet wristbands to people for "therapy". Are you a magnet therapy reseller, or just a well intentioned idiot? If the latter, then try googling "placebo effect".
(Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_therapy)
This article at QuackWatch is also worth reading, and concludes that there is no scientific basis to conclude that small, static magnets can relieve pain or influence the course of any disease. In fact, many of today's products produce no significant magnetic field at or beneath the skin's surface.
And you want to know about Buckminster Fuller's "endorsement"? Here it is, verbatim:
"It seems reasonable to me that such an electromagnetic field of right tuning and intensity might include an increased proximity of atoms within molecules."
Doesn't sound much like an endorsement, does it? In fact, it's not an endorsement for anything, and certainly not for "magnetic therapy".
Listen Transcender, either you've been duped, or you gain to profit from selling little magnet wristbands to people for "therapy". Are you a magnet therapy reseller, or just a well intentioned idiot? If the latter, then try googling "placebo effect".
The evidence against the claim of magnetic therapy is really overwhelming.
From Wikipedia:
* The typical magnet used produces insufficient magnetic field to have a lasting effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs.
* Researchers in high-energy physics laboratories can work for hours per day with their whole body immersed in magnetic fields far stronger than those from the bracelets, and there is no evidence they are more or less healthy than their peers.[citation needed] This shows that all magnetic fields do not have a noticeable health effect.
* No magnet healing manufacturer has demonstrated scientifically that its products achieve what they claim, and most cannot agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do.
* Some manufacturers claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by interacting with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. However in its ionised form, iron is not ferromagnetic and would not be subject to magnetic attraction[9], save for magnetohydrodynamic forces due to its charge.
* Others claim that the magnets can restore the body's theorised "electromagnetic energy balance". Needless to say, there is no serious scientific theory within which such a thing as the electromagnetic balance of the body would exist.
* There are also claims that the south pole of a magnet acts differently on the body than the north pole. [1].
* Many of the websites that provide information and resources promoting the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
* Water is a diamagnetic material, and thus cannot be magnetized. However magnetic fields have physical effects on all molecules and electrons; in particular, static magnetic fields shift the proton precession frequency of hydrogen nuclei by aligning their spins. However, within the magnetic field of the earth, the relaxation times are on the order of seconds, and thus this effect does not last. Also, magnetic bodies always have two poles and it is unclear how water can be reasonably labeled as magnetized, let alone "north pole" or "south pole" magnetized.
From Wikipedia:
* The typical magnet used produces insufficient magnetic field to have a lasting effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs.
* Researchers in high-energy physics laboratories can work for hours per day with their whole body immersed in magnetic fields far stronger than those from the bracelets, and there is no evidence they are more or less healthy than their peers.[citation needed] This shows that all magnetic fields do not have a noticeable health effect.
* No magnet healing manufacturer has demonstrated scientifically that its products achieve what they claim, and most cannot agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do.
* Some manufacturers claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by interacting with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. However in its ionised form, iron is not ferromagnetic and would not be subject to magnetic attraction[9], save for magnetohydrodynamic forces due to its charge.
* Others claim that the magnets can restore the body's theorised "electromagnetic energy balance". Needless to say, there is no serious scientific theory within which such a thing as the electromagnetic balance of the body would exist.
* There are also claims that the south pole of a magnet acts differently on the body than the north pole. [1].
* Many of the websites that provide information and resources promoting the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
* Water is a diamagnetic material, and thus cannot be magnetized. However magnetic fields have physical effects on all molecules and electrons; in particular, static magnetic fields shift the proton precession frequency of hydrogen nuclei by aligning their spins. However, within the magnetic field of the earth, the relaxation times are on the order of seconds, and thus this effect does not last. Also, magnetic bodies always have two poles and it is unclear how water can be reasonably labeled as magnetized, let alone "north pole" or "south pole" magnetized.
Ultimately I think that if something works for you then you would stick with it. To say however that something works for someone else would be subjective based on the idea that what you believe in works for everyone.
There are lots of claims being made for cures that have taken part in the process of healing, but really the mind plays an integral part in the healing process that assists whatever relative measures are taken towards the goal of changing the symptoms of the body and its health.
I know of someone who has stopped taking insulin for Diabetes after dedicating herself to a process of meditation. Tho this is not so extraordinary it is fascinating that it doesn't work the same for another who will not whole heartedly accept the process as a cure for a symptom or disease.
I tried sleeping on a magnetic bed but didn't notice any difference in my health or in the way I felt. The girl who owned the mattress told me she felt better after sleeping on it when she bought it, but then when it was removed she couldn't make any claims for feeling differently after losing the magnets.
After losing the mattress she sees a possibility that it was her approach to the expectations she had for success
with the product she bought from a rep who was a personal friend and also made claims of miracles from magnetic products.
There are lots of claims being made for cures that have taken part in the process of healing, but really the mind plays an integral part in the healing process that assists whatever relative measures are taken towards the goal of changing the symptoms of the body and its health.
I know of someone who has stopped taking insulin for Diabetes after dedicating herself to a process of meditation. Tho this is not so extraordinary it is fascinating that it doesn't work the same for another who will not whole heartedly accept the process as a cure for a symptom or disease.
I tried sleeping on a magnetic bed but didn't notice any difference in my health or in the way I felt. The girl who owned the mattress told me she felt better after sleeping on it when she bought it, but then when it was removed she couldn't make any claims for feeling differently after losing the magnets.
After losing the mattress she sees a possibility that it was her approach to the expectations she had for success
with the product she bought from a rep who was a personal friend and also made claims of miracles from magnetic products.
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 01, 2008, 12:24 PM)
The evidence against the claim of magnetic therapy is really overwhelming....
... Water is a diamagnetic material, and thus cannot be magnetized. ... However magnetic fields have physical effects on all molecules and electrons; in particular, static magnetic fields shift the proton precession frequency of hydrogen nuclei by aligning their spins. ...
... magnetic bodies always have two poles and it is unclear how water can be reasonably labeled as magnetized, let alone "north pole" or "south pole" magnetized.
BTW, I haven't read all your philosophy stuff, in detail, yet. Have you said anything about your philosophy regarding what is, or is not, a science? If not, what do you suggest is a useful one?
THE PLACEBO EFFECT
Mention has been made that we need to be made aware not to trust all claims that such and such has been proved, scientifically, good for us. For example, it could that good things happen to us when we drink "magnetised water" not because it is actually physically magnetised and, therefore, good for us, but because of the "placebo effect". Who has heard that there is also a nocebo effect?
THE NOCEBO EFFECT
In my library I have the book,
QUOTE
Timeless Healing--The power and biology of belief
(The family gave it to me for Christmas, 1996), by Dr. Herbert Benson, MD. I was invited to be part of a seminar with him at the University of Toronto in the 1980's He was then an associate professor of medicine at Harvard. Check out
http://www.mbmi.org/home/
Dr. Benson's book talks a lot about what he calls "inner knowledge" -- about inner emotions, and how to respect them in a society that encourages us not to.
In Chapter 4--THE BRAIN'S PREROGATIVE (page 87), he mentions the "nocebo effect"
From Dictionary.com
QUOTE
no·ce·bo
Pronunciation: "nO-'sE-(")bO
Function: noun: a harmless substance that when taken by a patient is associated with harmful effects due to negative expectations or the psychological condition of the patient
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Pronunciation: "nO-'sE-(")bO
Function: noun: a harmless substance that when taken by a patient is associated with harmful effects due to negative expectations or the psychological condition of the patient
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
Here is a question: In order to benefit from the placebo effect is it always necessary for some "expert" we trust to trick us into believing? Or, is it possible for us to "trick" ourselves?
I suspect that the latter is true. At least I know that I have benefitted from tricking myself, more than once. And I know I am not unique int this.
Could it be that I have hit upon a way--using what I call the pneumatological factor--to "bottle" the placebo effect so that my mind (psyche) and body (soma) benefit? This means, of course, that I have also learned how do fend off the harmful effect of nocebos and the psyche and soma.
Hey, maybe this is why so many parts of mother earth--including our beloved North America, especially our cities--are in a such a state of crisis: Too many of us have not bothered to try and understand the power of placebos. And, at the same time, we have failed to learn how to avoid the destructive force of nocebos.
Surely by now, there is more than enough evidence, scientifically speaking, to convince anyone with a brain, that stress can kill us, one person at a time, and before our time. Could it be that there is such a thing as social and collective stress, which can destroy whole nations, and even empires. It destroyed the Roman and the Russian empires, didn't it?
Just a thought.
Interestingly, there is quite a dust up in the ScienceAgogo forum over the role magnetism plays in helping us to better health. I am not sure what to make of it. As always, it is wise to take care.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthrea...umber=24583&an=
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthrea...umber=24583&an=
So you going to renounce that magnetised water then Lindsay, or do you feel you get enough of a 'placebo' effect from it to warrant its use?
When I found out that the placebo effect did not give the emperor new clothes, nor does it grow hair on a bald head, I decided to give up the believing in the placebo effect. 
By the way, what are all those doctors of science going do now, now that science has destroyed the placebo effect of all those cough medicines?
Has anyone tried to patent PLACEBO cough drops, made using structured water?
=============================================
SO-CALLED EXPERTS DISAGREE; WHAT ELSE IS NEW?
Let's hear it froom the "cons", first:
CON
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html
=============================
Now, from the "pros"
==================
PRO
http://www.aquatechnology.net/page11.html
ABOUT THE ANTAGONISTS
IS TILLER A FRAUD?
================
....
By the way, what are all those doctors of science going do now, now that science has destroyed the placebo effect of all those cough medicines?
Has anyone tried to patent PLACEBO cough drops, made using structured water?
=============================================
SO-CALLED EXPERTS DISAGREE; WHAT ELSE IS NEW?
Let's hear it froom the "cons", first:
CON
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/clusqk.html
=============================
Now, from the "pros"
==================
PRO
http://www.aquatechnology.net/page11.html
ABOUT THE ANTAGONISTS
QUOTE
A Few Words About the "Naysayers"
Before we begin our discussion it is important to point out that as in virtually every emerging science there are those who take up the mantle of antagonist and dispute the basic characteristics of structured or functional waters, or worse, dispute the very existance of any empirical data which validates the emerging functional water sciences.
We find that most of these antagonists come from the academic world and appear to have some book knowledge but little or no practical or hands-on experience in the sciences they criticize. We cannot find any scientific, peer-reviewed papers or studies by these highly critical individuals and must conclude that they themselves have probably failed in the research or development areas or simply have not been able to succeed in the business marketplace for one reason or another.
They are good candidates for attending anger management courses.
These antagonists most likely have failed to keep up with their peers in scientific discoveries and now take great pride in denouncing advancements in sciences where they themselves have failed to make significant contributions. Bitterness, libel and unending ad-hominem attacks are prevalent throughout their websites.
These antagonists have separated themselves from academia for one reason or another and fortunately are no longer in a position to adversely influence the creative minds of college students who may someday be major contributors to scientific advancement.
Before we begin our discussion it is important to point out that as in virtually every emerging science there are those who take up the mantle of antagonist and dispute the basic characteristics of structured or functional waters, or worse, dispute the very existance of any empirical data which validates the emerging functional water sciences.
We find that most of these antagonists come from the academic world and appear to have some book knowledge but little or no practical or hands-on experience in the sciences they criticize. We cannot find any scientific, peer-reviewed papers or studies by these highly critical individuals and must conclude that they themselves have probably failed in the research or development areas or simply have not been able to succeed in the business marketplace for one reason or another.
They are good candidates for attending anger management courses.
These antagonists most likely have failed to keep up with their peers in scientific discoveries and now take great pride in denouncing advancements in sciences where they themselves have failed to make significant contributions. Bitterness, libel and unending ad-hominem attacks are prevalent throughout their websites.
These antagonists have separated themselves from academia for one reason or another and fortunately are no longer in a position to adversely influence the creative minds of college students who may someday be major contributors to scientific advancement.
IS TILLER A FRAUD?
================
....
QUOTE
"Abundant data now exists to show that water, structured by applied electric and magnetic fields of a variety of configurations and magnitudes, beneficially influences seed germination, plant growth and a human's sense of beverage softness and flavor as well as personal physical well-being.
All the variants of homeopathic processing show that beneficial health benefits for living systems can also be incorporated into the subtle levels of water. Thus, water appears to be an amazing host or solvent for carrying both general as well as specific health enhancements to the end user.
Although we presently have some understanding of how to produce such beneficial structural changes in water, it is still very meager considering the vast potential that seems possible with water.
It is our lack of basic understanding that keeps us from:
(1) preparing water in a highly reproducible fashion for a specific end use;
(2) reliably controlling the lifetime of the unique structure given to water by a given process;
(3) reliably detecting and monitoring the specific structural and informational variants imbedded into a specific water product over time so as to have a quality control capability for that product; and
(4) predicting better pathways for water treatment using old or present processes as well as defining what would produce a superior process.
Now is the time to seriously invest in gaining the required understanding needed for sound commercialization of water products. The storehouse of this vast potential will not be able to be unlocked without careful research directed toward the four points set out in the previous paragraph. It is proposed that funding to support this specific research should be sought now".
Dr. William Tiller - Professor Emeritus, Materials Science, Stanford University (12/1/95)
All the variants of homeopathic processing show that beneficial health benefits for living systems can also be incorporated into the subtle levels of water. Thus, water appears to be an amazing host or solvent for carrying both general as well as specific health enhancements to the end user.
Although we presently have some understanding of how to produce such beneficial structural changes in water, it is still very meager considering the vast potential that seems possible with water.
It is our lack of basic understanding that keeps us from:
(1) preparing water in a highly reproducible fashion for a specific end use;
(2) reliably controlling the lifetime of the unique structure given to water by a given process;
(3) reliably detecting and monitoring the specific structural and informational variants imbedded into a specific water product over time so as to have a quality control capability for that product; and
(4) predicting better pathways for water treatment using old or present processes as well as defining what would produce a superior process.
Now is the time to seriously invest in gaining the required understanding needed for sound commercialization of water products. The storehouse of this vast potential will not be able to be unlocked without careful research directed toward the four points set out in the previous paragraph. It is proposed that funding to support this specific research should be sought now".
Dr. William Tiller - Professor Emeritus, Materials Science, Stanford University (12/1/95)
I've seen dubious articles on people 'sending' happy thoughts and changing the structure of water. The same website also claimed that putting labels with different words on jars of water actually had an effect on its structure. Water is a fantastic substance, it has many strange properties, one of which is supporting life as we know it, but some of the pseudoscientific claims that surround it are completely crazy. I actually enjoy looking for new breakthroughs in our research and technology, and when I see things like water taking on a different molecular shape due to thoughts, it just makes me mad. In a world of fluid online communication, some are doing everything they can to muddy the water of the Truth. **edit, just realised how many water based metaphors I used in that last sentence lol **
But from your last post it seems your still taking the criticism with a pinch of salt, is that your stance on the whole magnetic water thing?
Additionally, I'm pretty sure the 'God Helmet' experiment used magnetic fields to induce the feeling of a presence, which proves it can alter cognitive functions. But this is of course due to the amount of electrical activity in the brain, which is almost certainly higher and more susceptible to minute changes in the environment.
But from your last post it seems your still taking the criticism with a pinch of salt, is that your stance on the whole magnetic water thing?
Additionally, I'm pretty sure the 'God Helmet' experiment used magnetic fields to induce the feeling of a presence, which proves it can alter cognitive functions. But this is of course due to the amount of electrical activity in the brain, which is almost certainly higher and more susceptible to minute changes in the environment.
trojan_libido, I once asked a RC priest, who still is a friend of mine: How do you make Holy Water? He said, "I put ordinary water on the stove and boil hell out of it." 
BTW, I happen to believe that there is no such a thing as "ordinary" anything, including water. If we can get rid of things that divide us from truth, using this very extraordinary brain of ours, I BELIEVE many wonderful things are possible.
Devil. The Greek word is diabolo (hence diabolic). The root meaning is: that which splits; that which divides us. The spirit--I am not talking about a three-dimensiional object--of evil wants us to fight ourselves and one another. Think on it and about it.
QUOTE
But from your last post it seems your still taking the criticism with a pinch of salt, is that your stance on the whole magnetic water thing?
I take all criticisms witih a pinch of salt, which I throw over my shoulder. BTW, I happen to believe that there is no such a thing as "ordinary" anything, including water. If we can get rid of things that divide us from truth, using this very extraordinary brain of ours, I BELIEVE many wonderful things are possible.
Devil. The Greek word is diabolo (hence diabolic). The root meaning is: that which splits; that which divides us. The spirit--I am not talking about a three-dimensiional object--of evil wants us to fight ourselves and one another. Think on it and about it.
Again, you are assuming that you are getting the whole truth from sources like wikipedia (where anyone can post anything about a topic) and the media. The media reports what the owners of the media outlets want reported, and nothing more. And a handful of companies like Disney, Time-Warner, and Viacom own the media.
Did it ever occur to you that the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry would lose billions of dollars if the truth about therapies such as magnet therapy, which is far cheaper and more effective than pharmaceuticals, became widely known to the public? Do you think they just might have a motive to suppress this information, that motive being billions of dollars? There are many people that are more than happy to cheat or lie to someone for a hell of a lot less money than that.
Unfortunately, some of those people are in alternative medicine too. Magnetic mattress pads are not very effective and they never have been. When magnets are used correctly they can give tremendous results. If you want to try magnets, use quality ceramic block magnets, and use only the North pole side of the magnet and you'll see results. The larger and more powerful the magnet is, the less time it needs to be used each day. For the large ones (1/2"x2"x6" or 1/2"x4"x6") that means usually no more than an hour or two a day on the area of the problem.
What about our politicians, they'd never stand for this? Of course not, who ever heard of a corrupt politician? Corruption and politics go hand in hand. I'm not saying all politicians are corrupt, but many of them are.
This is precisely what has been happening. Read the book, Racketeering in Medicine: The Suppression of Alternatives, by James P. Carter, M.D., P.H., or another book on the subject. There is ample information on the internet about the suppression of alternative medicine if you take the time to read it. There is infinitely more money to be made from treating a disease rather than curing it. With all of the billions of dollars spent on research, when was the last time you heard about a cure?
Look up the latest cancer treatment using particle accelerators and you'll find a classic example of what I'm talking about. There is little if any evidence that these particle accelerators are more effective than radiation or chemo, and the treatment will cost twice as much. Yet, many particle accelerators are being built around the country right now for cancer treatment. Each one can cost as much as 100 million dollars to build.
You follow the money trail and you will learn a lot. Dr. Carter does a great job of explaining this in detail in his book. The prime motivator of many people (not all) in positions of authority in medicine is money, not helping people. As bad as all of this sounds, it gets worse. Read about the United Nations plan (with the full support of many nations) to control food and health supplements worldwide. It's called Codex Alimentarius.
Did it ever occur to you that the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry would lose billions of dollars if the truth about therapies such as magnet therapy, which is far cheaper and more effective than pharmaceuticals, became widely known to the public? Do you think they just might have a motive to suppress this information, that motive being billions of dollars? There are many people that are more than happy to cheat or lie to someone for a hell of a lot less money than that.
Unfortunately, some of those people are in alternative medicine too. Magnetic mattress pads are not very effective and they never have been. When magnets are used correctly they can give tremendous results. If you want to try magnets, use quality ceramic block magnets, and use only the North pole side of the magnet and you'll see results. The larger and more powerful the magnet is, the less time it needs to be used each day. For the large ones (1/2"x2"x6" or 1/2"x4"x6") that means usually no more than an hour or two a day on the area of the problem.
What about our politicians, they'd never stand for this? Of course not, who ever heard of a corrupt politician? Corruption and politics go hand in hand. I'm not saying all politicians are corrupt, but many of them are.
This is precisely what has been happening. Read the book, Racketeering in Medicine: The Suppression of Alternatives, by James P. Carter, M.D., P.H., or another book on the subject. There is ample information on the internet about the suppression of alternative medicine if you take the time to read it. There is infinitely more money to be made from treating a disease rather than curing it. With all of the billions of dollars spent on research, when was the last time you heard about a cure?
Look up the latest cancer treatment using particle accelerators and you'll find a classic example of what I'm talking about. There is little if any evidence that these particle accelerators are more effective than radiation or chemo, and the treatment will cost twice as much. Yet, many particle accelerators are being built around the country right now for cancer treatment. Each one can cost as much as 100 million dollars to build.
You follow the money trail and you will learn a lot. Dr. Carter does a great job of explaining this in detail in his book. The prime motivator of many people (not all) in positions of authority in medicine is money, not helping people. As bad as all of this sounds, it gets worse. Read about the United Nations plan (with the full support of many nations) to control food and health supplements worldwide. It's called Codex Alimentarius.
QUOTE(Transcender @ Jan 02, 2008, 01:11 PM)
you are assuming that you are getting the whole truth from sources like wikipedia and the media.
I never made such an assumption. I merely pointed out that myriad reputable sources dispute your claim that magnetic therapy works, and many characterize it as pseudoscience and downright fraud, and that, contrary to your claim, Buckminster Fuller did not "endorse" magnetic therapy.
I suppose, according to you, there's a worldwide conspiracy against "magnetic therapy"? Seriously, you need to pull your head out of your arse. If "magnetic therapy" actually worked, then there would be rigorous studies that conclusively supported it, but this isn't the case at all.
Like I said in my previous post, either you've been duped, or you gain to profit from selling little magnet wristbands to people for "therapy". Are you in the "magnetic therapy" business, or are you just an unwitting and gullible pawn?
HOW TRUSTWORTHY IS MEDICAL SCIENCE, IN GENERAL?
==============================================
In the important book, Second Opinion. What's Wrong with Canada's Health Care System and How to Fix It by Michael Rachlis, MD (an epidemiolgist), Carol Kushner, a writer, point out that over seventy five per cent of medical procedures have never been subjected to double-blind testing. How come?
I interviewed Dr. Rachlis and reviewed his book when it was first published.
In his Prescription for Excellence Dr. Rachlis repeats his ideas, in a popular format.
Check out: Healthcare Quarterly
http://www.longwoods.com/product.php?produ...&cat=330&page=1
===================
Has anyone checked out the work of Dr. Mercola? It looks interesting.
http://www.mercola.com/forms/background.htm
==============================================
In the important book, Second Opinion. What's Wrong with Canada's Health Care System and How to Fix It by Michael Rachlis, MD (an epidemiolgist), Carol Kushner, a writer, point out that over seventy five per cent of medical procedures have never been subjected to double-blind testing. How come?
I interviewed Dr. Rachlis and reviewed his book when it was first published.
In his Prescription for Excellence Dr. Rachlis repeats his ideas, in a popular format.
Check out: Healthcare Quarterly
http://www.longwoods.com/product.php?produ...&cat=330&page=1
===================
Has anyone checked out the work of Dr. Mercola? It looks interesting.
http://www.mercola.com/forms/background.htm
FROM THE QUESTION AREA:
======================
I am a second year medical Student in an Osteopathic institution. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the conventional medical educational system as you see it? What items that I am learning should I put stock in and which should I take with a grain of salt?
A :
Answer (Published April 03, 2007 )
Great question as the answer has very broad implications. Conventional medicine, I really don't think it is at all appropriate to call it traditional medicine as that would imply that the model has been around for centuries and that simply is not the case at all.
Conventional is far more appropriate a term as it is what is typically being practiced today and has been for about the last century when the AMA in the US, with the help of the drug companies, help to squash the true traditional medicine, which today is frequently referred to as alternative medicine.
My favorite term for this type of practice though is natural medicine as it is a system based on thousands of years of empirical data that relies on the assumption that your body has an innate and intrinsic healing ability if it is given what it needs and exposure to toxic influences are minimized.
Getting back to your question, conventional medicine certainly has is place. I believe its most appropriate if restricted to two areas, one is diagnosis and the other is the treatment of acute trauma. The use of blood tests, diagnostic imaging and pathological evaluation can provide a very useful tool to rule out serious illness that can easily be overlooked by well intentioned natural medical practitioners. ... For the complete answer:
http://v.mercola.com/QA/When-Should-You-Us...cine--2732.aspx
======================
I am a second year medical Student in an Osteopathic institution. What are the strengths and weaknesses of the conventional medical educational system as you see it? What items that I am learning should I put stock in and which should I take with a grain of salt?
A :
Answer (Published April 03, 2007 )
Great question as the answer has very broad implications. Conventional medicine, I really don't think it is at all appropriate to call it traditional medicine as that would imply that the model has been around for centuries and that simply is not the case at all.
Conventional is far more appropriate a term as it is what is typically being practiced today and has been for about the last century when the AMA in the US, with the help of the drug companies, help to squash the true traditional medicine, which today is frequently referred to as alternative medicine.
My favorite term for this type of practice though is natural medicine as it is a system based on thousands of years of empirical data that relies on the assumption that your body has an innate and intrinsic healing ability if it is given what it needs and exposure to toxic influences are minimized.
Getting back to your question, conventional medicine certainly has is place. I believe its most appropriate if restricted to two areas, one is diagnosis and the other is the treatment of acute trauma. The use of blood tests, diagnostic imaging and pathological evaluation can provide a very useful tool to rule out serious illness that can easily be overlooked by well intentioned natural medical practitioners. ... For the complete answer:
http://v.mercola.com/QA/When-Should-You-Us...cine--2732.aspx
I just can't take Dr. Joseph Mercola seriously when your link goes to a page with the heading "Why you can trust me" and the metaheading "My Qualifications", which I guess means he made the website himself. Also anyone who says "trust me, I'm a doctor" automatically puts me on the defensive. The Devil/Diablo meaning the splitting of the spirit is a good metaphysical way of self-realisation, but I don't really see how its relevant unless your saying that its the Devil thats created the mistrust of alternative medicine. I don't really need to invoke the Devil to explain inconsistencies in research, so I'm not sure how thinking on this will help me find the Truth in alternative medicines.
I do understand that monopolies on medicine is often the guiding factor in our world, rather than the best or cheapest alternative. For instance to get a prescription medicine costs £6.50 in the UK. But sometimes the medicine on the prescription can be bought over the counter for much less than paying the prescription. Its entirely up to the pharmacist to let you know you can get it cheaper, which I bet doesn't always happen. £0.99p folic acid for £6.50? Slightly extortionate.
So while I can sympathise with the mistrust of the medical arena being ran by profiteers rather than healers, I can not see how magnetic fields can be utilised in such a way to promote specific healing of illness. General well being, possibly, cure for acne/rheumatism/cramp etc. highly unlikely. If this was true, wouldn't we get overwhelming physical response when in the presence of a high strength magnetic field (excluding the mental effects already noted)? Whereas sound has a definite impact on the body and its sensations, but even that has no real medical applications yet, despite some claims to the contrary.
Its true that a lot of medicine in use today has not undergone the double blind trials that new medicines are subjected too. I'm not sure if its a requirement now, but I guess the regulations have become tighter so it probably is. But this doesn't mean older and more conventional medicines are never tested for new uses and new side effects, obviously the budgets are harder to get.
But I'm still waiting for a Yes/No answer on whether you guys will continue with 'magnetised' water and magnetic therapy, and if so, what benefits do you think you are getting from it?
I do understand that monopolies on medicine is often the guiding factor in our world, rather than the best or cheapest alternative. For instance to get a prescription medicine costs £6.50 in the UK. But sometimes the medicine on the prescription can be bought over the counter for much less than paying the prescription. Its entirely up to the pharmacist to let you know you can get it cheaper, which I bet doesn't always happen. £0.99p folic acid for £6.50? Slightly extortionate.
So while I can sympathise with the mistrust of the medical arena being ran by profiteers rather than healers, I can not see how magnetic fields can be utilised in such a way to promote specific healing of illness. General well being, possibly, cure for acne/rheumatism/cramp etc. highly unlikely. If this was true, wouldn't we get overwhelming physical response when in the presence of a high strength magnetic field (excluding the mental effects already noted)? Whereas sound has a definite impact on the body and its sensations, but even that has no real medical applications yet, despite some claims to the contrary.
Its true that a lot of medicine in use today has not undergone the double blind trials that new medicines are subjected too. I'm not sure if its a requirement now, but I guess the regulations have become tighter so it probably is. But this doesn't mean older and more conventional medicines are never tested for new uses and new side effects, obviously the budgets are harder to get.
But I'm still waiting for a Yes/No answer on whether you guys will continue with 'magnetised' water and magnetic therapy, and if so, what benefits do you think you are getting from it?
CBC http://www.cbc.ca The morning news reported that, last year, the big drug companies spent twice as much of their profits ($ 90 billions) on promoting their products than they did on research? Interesting.
T_L
I AM RETIRED WITH A PENSION AND NOT INTO MARKETING
but I have a friend who is. Years ago, he introduced me to enzymes and herbs. His advice helped me avoid major surgery.
I BELIEVE IN PHYSICAL MEDICINE, WHEN CALLED FOR
At the time, I was under the care of my family doctor--trouble with my bowels, gastritis, bloating and hemorhoids. He recommended a well-respected surgeon who I knew. Both were very helpful and they offered no objection when I shared with them what I was told by Rgarden--the company selling the enzymes, herbs, etc.
ABOUT STRUCTURED WATER
Over two years ago, I was still having trouble getting rid of that bloated feeling (uncomfortable bowel movements, gas, etc. One doctor described it as a "lazy" colon). I had to wear a larger and larger belt size. Knowing that my friend mentioned above, is well read in complementary (not alternative) therapies, I told him about it.
He recommended that I look into the claims being made for a gadget just brought on the market by Rgarden.com (the summer ot 2005). I noticed it was quite costly. But, I reasoned, I have spent more with my mechanic just a week ago.
In addition, the "total-money-back guarantee" got my attention. My friend said, "If it does not help you deal with you lazy colon problem, I will personally re-imburse you. Because RG will re-imburse me." Better than my mechanic. So I decided to invest in my health.
Here is what Rgarden claims.
http://www.rgarden.com/vitalize/
Other than how I feel now, I readily admit that I have no other evidence than the claims made by RG.
HOW DO I FEEL? Within a fews days after drinking the structured water, my colon settled down and started to operate, efficiently.
Within short order, my belt size went from 36" to 32". It has been at this point for some time now; and no "love handles" around the waist; no more gas and that bloated feeling. Could this be just the PLACEBO effect?
BTW, my energy improved to the point that I--one who believed that gardening gave me all the exercises I needed--started to look into the benefits of yoga. I was led to discover the FIVE TIBETAN RITES, which I have done, daily, since the summer of 2005: http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm
Excellent!
BTW 2, I still use the gadget.
If it is a placebo, long live the placebo. It is better than the nocebo of negativity.
T_L
QUOTE
But I'm still waiting for a Yes/No answer on whether you guys will continue with 'magnetised' water and magnetic therapy, and if so, what benefits do you think you are getting from it?
. I realize that water does not behave like iron. It cannot be magnetized, like iron. The better term is "structured water" I AM RETIRED WITH A PENSION AND NOT INTO MARKETING
but I have a friend who is. Years ago, he introduced me to enzymes and herbs. His advice helped me avoid major surgery.
I BELIEVE IN PHYSICAL MEDICINE, WHEN CALLED FOR
At the time, I was under the care of my family doctor--trouble with my bowels, gastritis, bloating and hemorhoids. He recommended a well-respected surgeon who I knew. Both were very helpful and they offered no objection when I shared with them what I was told by Rgarden--the company selling the enzymes, herbs, etc.
ABOUT STRUCTURED WATER
Over two years ago, I was still having trouble getting rid of that bloated feeling (uncomfortable bowel movements, gas, etc. One doctor described it as a "lazy" colon). I had to wear a larger and larger belt size. Knowing that my friend mentioned above, is well read in complementary (not alternative) therapies, I told him about it.
He recommended that I look into the claims being made for a gadget just brought on the market by Rgarden.com (the summer ot 2005). I noticed it was quite costly. But, I reasoned, I have spent more with my mechanic just a week ago.
In addition, the "total-money-back guarantee" got my attention. My friend said, "If it does not help you deal with you lazy colon problem, I will personally re-imburse you. Because RG will re-imburse me." Better than my mechanic. So I decided to invest in my health.
Here is what Rgarden claims.
http://www.rgarden.com/vitalize/
Other than how I feel now, I readily admit that I have no other evidence than the claims made by RG.
HOW DO I FEEL? Within a fews days after drinking the structured water, my colon settled down and started to operate, efficiently.
Within short order, my belt size went from 36" to 32". It has been at this point for some time now; and no "love handles" around the waist; no more gas and that bloated feeling. Could this be just the PLACEBO effect?
BTW, my energy improved to the point that I--one who believed that gardening gave me all the exercises I needed--started to look into the benefits of yoga. I was led to discover the FIVE TIBETAN RITES, which I have done, daily, since the summer of 2005: http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm
Excellent!
BTW 2, I still use the gadget.
If it is a placebo, long live the placebo.
It is better than the nocebo of negativity.
Coca Cola spends $1,000,000,000 a year on advertising, what's your point?
Drug companies are like any other type of business, they exist to make money in exchange for goods and services.
Drug companies are like any other type of business, they exist to make money in exchange for goods and services.
Max: Is the sale of health products just about business?
I forgot to mention: Just a few weeks ago, a surgeon told me: "Your colon is squeeky clean. Whatever you are doing, keep it up! You could live to be 100."
Jokingly, I responded: "Are you sure? I want a second opinion...with a signed guarantee"
Jokingly, I responded: "Are you sure? I want a second opinion...with a signed guarantee"
In Buckminster Fuller's quote, he is referring to the discovery by Davis and Rawls that North pole magnetic energy causes matter to contract (while the South pole causes it to expand). That's what Fuller means by "an increased proximity of atoms within molecules."
When water is exposed to the North pole energy the hydrogen ions increase in activity, the nitrogen levels in the water drop and so does the oxygen level (slightly). Plus, there is an increase in the surface tension of the water and this can be measured (as Davis and Rawls did) with a dyne meter. The alkalinity of the water is increased too according to experiments done by Morris Tischler, which he wrote about in his manual. The previous information was taken from the Davis/Rawls books, The Magnetic Effect, and their last book, The Magnetic Blueprint of Life. Since these effects are the result of exposure to a magnetic field, I think magnetized water is a fitting description. Though I have heard of other methods to make structured water, like using sound waves.
I've watered the same species of plant with plain water and magnetized water, and their is no doubt that the plant grew better when watered with the magnetized water. The results are even better if the seeds from the plant were placed on a 1500-2000 gauss magnet for several days and then planted. And if you put magnetized water on your hair each day, it definitely makes your hair softer and smoother.
I have a relative who was told she needed a surgery on her thumb by her doctor, but she decided to try using a small magnet on her thumb for 12 hours a day, six days a week to see if she might be able to avoid the surgery. Within weeks her thumb was completely healed. A friend of hers had the same problem, was also told she needed surgery, and she was given the magnet to use and it worked for her too, again, no surgery was needed. I have more stories like this, and you can call it anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that these two ladies avoided surgery by using a magnet. This anecdote worked better than what these doctors had to offer and it cost next to nothing.
When water is exposed to the North pole energy the hydrogen ions increase in activity, the nitrogen levels in the water drop and so does the oxygen level (slightly). Plus, there is an increase in the surface tension of the water and this can be measured (as Davis and Rawls did) with a dyne meter. The alkalinity of the water is increased too according to experiments done by Morris Tischler, which he wrote about in his manual. The previous information was taken from the Davis/Rawls books, The Magnetic Effect, and their last book, The Magnetic Blueprint of Life. Since these effects are the result of exposure to a magnetic field, I think magnetized water is a fitting description. Though I have heard of other methods to make structured water, like using sound waves.
I've watered the same species of plant with plain water and magnetized water, and their is no doubt that the plant grew better when watered with the magnetized water. The results are even better if the seeds from the plant were placed on a 1500-2000 gauss magnet for several days and then planted. And if you put magnetized water on your hair each day, it definitely makes your hair softer and smoother.
I have a relative who was told she needed a surgery on her thumb by her doctor, but she decided to try using a small magnet on her thumb for 12 hours a day, six days a week to see if she might be able to avoid the surgery. Within weeks her thumb was completely healed. A friend of hers had the same problem, was also told she needed surgery, and she was given the magnet to use and it worked for her too, again, no surgery was needed. I have more stories like this, and you can call it anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that these two ladies avoided surgery by using a magnet. This anecdote worked better than what these doctors had to offer and it cost next to nothing.
My brother was told he'd never walk again by several top surgeons after breaking his back. He walked out of the hospital in 6 months. Just because doctors say something is necessary, isn't always the case.
Say I had a headache and I took a headache pill. Thirty minutes later my headache has gone, was it the pill or just the natural course of the headache? If the pill was a placebo then theres still the question of whether it was the natural course of the headache or simply psychosomatic response to the 'treatment' (ie placebo effect).
My mother is one for old wives tales and remedies. I used to suffer badly from travel sickness and she'd stick a strip of brown paper onto my stomach. She swore it helped when I finally told her I'd do without and there was no reasoning I could come up with for the brown paper stopping sickness. She still puts it on my nephews to this day, and still swears it works. This is a good example of a reverse-placebo, it makes the nurse happier if you take it.
Getting back to water
@Transcender: I can take it on trust that the information you provided is correct to your knowledge. Surface tension increasing etc. But I can't see how the effect would be permanent. I also don't see how the nitrogen levels in the water would drop, or the oxygen levels. Water is H2O and any nitrogen would be a contaminate. Similarly if oxygen levels dropped in the water, then either the water is stagnating and trapped oxygen bubbles are being released, or the water is slowly splitting into oxygen and hydrogen. I'm fairly sure its true you can use electrolysis to extract the hydrogen from oxygen, but I doubt a magnetic field could do this.
@Lindsay: I would love an explanation on how you can structure water. I thought the symbol of H2O was the structure, with each molecule moving freely. The bonds between the molecules of water is changed when its boiled or frozen, but the only time I'd say it has a structure is when its frozen. I'd love clarification on this.
Hexagonal water, obviously better than this Pentagonal water:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penta_Water
Negativity is good when its deserved Lindsay, I'm pretty negative about war and famine, and I'm also negative about this water-structuring because I actually almost walked into this scam through my own beliefs in hexagonal and pentagonal relevance to divine reality.
Say I had a headache and I took a headache pill. Thirty minutes later my headache has gone, was it the pill or just the natural course of the headache? If the pill was a placebo then theres still the question of whether it was the natural course of the headache or simply psychosomatic response to the 'treatment' (ie placebo effect).
My mother is one for old wives tales and remedies. I used to suffer badly from travel sickness and she'd stick a strip of brown paper onto my stomach. She swore it helped when I finally told her I'd do without and there was no reasoning I could come up with for the brown paper stopping sickness. She still puts it on my nephews to this day, and still swears it works. This is a good example of a reverse-placebo, it makes the nurse happier if you take it.
Getting back to water
@Transcender: I can take it on trust that the information you provided is correct to your knowledge. Surface tension increasing etc. But I can't see how the effect would be permanent. I also don't see how the nitrogen levels in the water would drop, or the oxygen levels. Water is H2O and any nitrogen would be a contaminate. Similarly if oxygen levels dropped in the water, then either the water is stagnating and trapped oxygen bubbles are being released, or the water is slowly splitting into oxygen and hydrogen. I'm fairly sure its true you can use electrolysis to extract the hydrogen from oxygen, but I doubt a magnetic field could do this.
@Lindsay: I would love an explanation on how you can structure water. I thought the symbol of H2O was the structure, with each molecule moving freely. The bonds between the molecules of water is changed when its boiled or frozen, but the only time I'd say it has a structure is when its frozen. I'd love clarification on this.
QUOTE
VITALIZER PLUS water is Hexagonal Water
I of all people on Brainmeta understand the metaphysical implications of the hexagonal shape, but I can't and don't understand how you can get hexagonal water... Hexagonal snowflakes are the only reason I can see for this claim, and that is water frozen around a particle of dust or similar.QUOTE
Vitalizer Plus is scientifically documented* to:
1. Structure water – powerful magnetic and infrared forces reduce the size of individual water clusters, creating Hexagonal Water for more rapid penetration into the cells of your body.
2. Increase Oxygen – turbulent forces create a visible vortex, increasing the amount of oxygen in your drinking water – up to 30%.
3. Add minerals – a mineral core within the unit, releases structure-making minerals during the vitalizing process to help structure the water and increase alkalinity.
4. Add energy – the resulting energy in Vitalized water is enough to begin to balance the organs of your body – within minutes after drinking.
1. Structure water – powerful magnetic and infrared forces reduce the size of individual water clusters, creating Hexagonal Water for more rapid penetration into the cells of your body.
2. Increase Oxygen – turbulent forces create a visible vortex, increasing the amount of oxygen in your drinking water – up to 30%.
3. Add minerals – a mineral core within the unit, releases structure-making minerals during the vitalizing process to help structure the water and increase alkalinity.
4. Add energy – the resulting energy in Vitalized water is enough to begin to balance the organs of your body – within minutes after drinking.
Hexagonal water, obviously better than this Pentagonal water:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penta_Water
QUOTE
The various claims made by Penta are classed as pseudoscience by scientists [5], as they have never been scientifically established, and contradict laws of nature. Penta has commissioned studies which they claim validate a few of their claims, but none of these studies was published in mainstream peer-reviewed scientific literature. These studies also suffer from major experimental design flaws...
No longer sold in the United Kingdom
In March 2005 the British Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) ruled on the accuracy of a Penta Water leaflet. The complaint was upheld. Among their findings the ASA wrote that
"The Authority took expert advice and understood that the scientific evidence submitted did not prove that Penta had health benefits over and above those of ordinary water or had been restructured to form stable smaller clusters. It also understood that hydrogen-bonds in ordinary water were a weak type of chemical bonding that allowed the formation and reformation of temporary clusters of water molecules in liquid phase water many times per second. The Authority concluded that the information submitted was not sufficient to prove Penta water had health benefits over and above those of ordinary water or was structured differently from ordinary water."
No longer sold in the United Kingdom
In March 2005 the British Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) ruled on the accuracy of a Penta Water leaflet. The complaint was upheld. Among their findings the ASA wrote that
"The Authority took expert advice and understood that the scientific evidence submitted did not prove that Penta had health benefits over and above those of ordinary water or had been restructured to form stable smaller clusters. It also understood that hydrogen-bonds in ordinary water were a weak type of chemical bonding that allowed the formation and reformation of temporary clusters of water molecules in liquid phase water many times per second. The Authority concluded that the information submitted was not sufficient to prove Penta water had health benefits over and above those of ordinary water or was structured differently from ordinary water."
Negativity is good when its deserved Lindsay, I'm pretty negative about war and famine, and I'm also negative about this water-structuring because I actually almost walked into this scam through my own beliefs in hexagonal and pentagonal relevance to divine reality.
"@Lindsay: I would love an explanation on how you can structure water. I thought the symbol of H2O was the structure, with each molecule moving freely."
I only know what I have been told. I am not a techie.
I am told that when water falls from the sky the molecule is 6 sided. This why snowflakes have six sides. However, when water sits in pipes for any length of time it can become lazy and many of the molecules become five-sided. The spinning magnet--have you looked at the r-garden illustrations?--restores the six-sidedness.
Can I prove this? No.
I only know what I have been told. I am not a techie.
I am told that when water falls from the sky the molecule is 6 sided. This why snowflakes have six sides. However, when water sits in pipes for any length of time it can become lazy and many of the molecules become five-sided. The spinning magnet--have you looked at the r-garden illustrations?--restores the six-sidedness.
Can I prove this? No.
QUOTE(Transcender @ Jan 04, 2008, 12:43 AM)
In Buckminster Fuller's quote, he is referring to the discovery by Davis and Rawls that North pole magnetic energy causes matter to contract (while the South pole causes it to expand). That's what Fuller means by "an increased proximity of atoms within molecules."
When water is exposed to the North pole energy the hydrogen ions increase in activity, the nitrogen levels in the water drop and so does the oxygen level (slightly). Plus, there is an increase in the surface tension of the water and this can be measured (as Davis and Rawls did) with a dyne meter. The alkalinity of the water is increased too according to experiments done by Morris Tischler, which he wrote about in his manual. The previous information was taken from the Davis/Rawls books, The Magnetic Effect, and their last book, The Magnetic Blueprint of Life. Since these effects are the result of exposure to a magnetic field, I think magnetized water is a fitting description. Though I have heard of other methods to make structured water, like using sound waves.
I've watered the same species of plant with plain water and magnetized water, and their is no doubt that the plant grew better when watered with the magnetized water. The results are even better if the seeds from the plant were placed on a 1500-2000 gauss magnet for several days and then planted. And if you put magnetized water on your hair each day, it definitely makes your hair softer and smoother.
I have a relative who was told she needed a surgery on her thumb by her doctor, but she decided to try using a small magnet on her thumb for 12 hours a day, six days a week to see if she might be able to avoid the surgery. Within weeks her thumb was completely healed. A friend of hers had the same problem, was also told she needed surgery, and she was given the magnet to use and it worked for her too, again, no surgery was needed. I have more stories like this, and you can call it anecdotal evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that these two ladies avoided surgery by using a magnet. This anecdote worked better than what these doctors had to offer and it cost next to nothing.
First of all, if your theory is correct - then logically every plant which becomes watered by magnetized water should produce a greater volume of plant growth than those without.
Secondly, how do we know that these plants have been tested in a consistent way? The position of the plants, the type of soil and their exact location all have bearing on the growth of plants. Also the amount of water which the plants receive is very significant.
Was this magnetized water allowed to sit for a while or was it immediately applied to the plants?
Was the water obtained for both sets of plants from the same source and did the water sit for the same length of time? Distillation can have an effect on water as well.
Next, did you measure the amount of magnetized water being poured into plants as opposed to the amount of regular water being used?
Was the soil from the same source and the plants all from the same source - grown from seeds from the same source? Genetic variation can cause massive difference.
Also were the plants placed under controlled artificial lighting or were they in the sunlight? The position of the plants in a green house will have a tremendous impact on their growth. Their position can determine how long (if any) the plants are in the shade, the strength of exposure to sunlight and the time they are exposed.
How long was this experiment tested for and what was the method of measuring the difference in plant growth? Have you documented results with subsequent measurements?
Problem is, this is still pseudoscience, I always keep my mind open but you need a hypothesis to explain why magnetic fields would cause this to happen and then proof of said hypothesis.
I started reading this thread then I got a headache.
Thats all.
Thats all.
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 06, 2008, 12:10 AM)
.... Problem is, this is still pseudoscience, I always keep my mind open but you need a hypothesis to explain why magnetic fields would cause this to happen and then proof of said hypothesis.
Doctor LifeM, go take a placebo, or get thee to a faith healer. I've helped ease many a pain using pneumatherapy--spiritual-based hypnosis. They could work and they will not destroy your kidneys in the process.
Lindsay my definition of a pseudoscience is something which claims to be scientific but does not engage in a truly scientific method of validation.
The problem I have with this little explanation that magnetic fields should cause healing and whatnot is there is no proof. Even if you don't have a theory, there is no hard evidence.
The problem I have with this little explanation that magnetic fields should cause healing and whatnot is there is no proof. Even if you don't have a theory, there is no hard evidence.
I grew sugar baby watermelons a few years ago to experiment with magnetizing the seeds and the water I used to water them with. I measured the amount of water I gave them so each plant received the same quantity, and they were grown in the exact same soil and given the same type and dose of fertilizer. In addition, they were all
exposed to the same amount of sunlight each day.
The North pole plants were by far the biggest, followed by the South pole plants and then the controls. There was no question whether the magnetized plants grew better than the control plants. The North pole exposed plants were twice as large as the controls, and the South pole plants were maybe 30-40% larger.
Davis and Rawls explain in patent #4,020,590 on the USPTO website that often both North and South pole magnetized seeds will exhibit improved growth characteristics over unexposed seeds, and their research was always done under controlled laboratory conditions, unlike my experiment. Nonetheless, I had very compelling results myself.
As I've said, there is solid evidence that magnets can be used with great success in medicine, and in agriculture as well, you're simply choosing to dismiss it.
exposed to the same amount of sunlight each day.
The North pole plants were by far the biggest, followed by the South pole plants and then the controls. There was no question whether the magnetized plants grew better than the control plants. The North pole exposed plants were twice as large as the controls, and the South pole plants were maybe 30-40% larger.
Davis and Rawls explain in patent #4,020,590 on the USPTO website that often both North and South pole magnetized seeds will exhibit improved growth characteristics over unexposed seeds, and their research was always done under controlled laboratory conditions, unlike my experiment. Nonetheless, I had very compelling results myself.
As I've said, there is solid evidence that magnets can be used with great success in medicine, and in agriculture as well, you're simply choosing to dismiss it.
I believe its possible to get patents on things which don't actually work. But if you've done the testing yourself then I applaud your commitment to the Truth. Almost all conversations on Brainmeta are about experiments we've not confirmed with ourselves and research we personally haven't carried out. What you are left with is a kind of faith. I'm interested how exactly you created north/south pole plants, was it a magnetic field?
The problem is transender, there are so many fraudulent claims that any real properties of magentic fields can be easily dismissed because of the sea of lies.
The problem is transender, there are so many fraudulent claims that any real properties of magentic fields can be easily dismissed because of the sea of lies.
Yes its true, the USPO does not verify whether or not a patent claim is accurate. They simply register and file patents, they take no part in evaluating the validity of said claim. There are many, many free energy patents, does this mean it is true? Of course not.
And Transcender, there is a LARGE amount of evidence against it which you have so conveniently disregarded. I am naturally skeptical, you can't expect any reasonable person not to be.
I am not disregarding evidence, however I am not about to jump on the band wagon just because a few new age authors choose to write about it.
These people are not independent third parties. Why have you been unable to show us a third-party independent study in a peer-reviewed journal? There are plenty of parapsychologists which claim to have evidence but it conveniently dissipates when a third-party, non-parapsychologist investigates.
Again I reiterate.
* The typical magnet used produces insufficient magnetic field to have a lasting effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs.
* Researchers in high-energy physics laboratories can work for hours per day with their whole body immersed in magnetic fields far stronger than those from the bracelets, and there is no evidence they are more or less healthy than their peers.[citation needed] This shows that all magnetic fields do not have a noticeable health effect.
* No magnet healing manufacturer has demonstrated scientifically that its products achieve what they claim, and most cannot agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do.
* Some manufacturers claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by interacting with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. However in its ionised form, iron is not ferromagnetic and would not be subject to magnetic attraction[9], save for magnetohydrodynamic forces due to its charge.
* Others claim that the magnets can restore the body's theorised "electromagnetic energy balance". Needless to say, there is no serious scientific theory within which such a thing as the electromagnetic balance of the body would exist.
* There are also claims that the south pole of a magnet acts differently on the body than the north pole. [1].
* Many of the websites that provide information and resources promoting the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
* Water is a diamagnetic material, and thus cannot be magnetized. However magnetic fields have physical effects on all molecules and electrons; in particular, static magnetic fields shift the proton precession frequency of hydrogen nuclei by aligning their spins. However, within the magnetic field of the earth, the relaxation times are on the order of seconds, and thus this effect does not last. Also, magnetic bodies always have two poles and it is unclear how water can be reasonably labeled as magnetized, let alone "north pole" or "south pole" magnetized.
Anyways I am sick to death of this argument, oddly enough Life Mirage, im starting to get a headache from reading this as well.
And Transcender, there is a LARGE amount of evidence against it which you have so conveniently disregarded. I am naturally skeptical, you can't expect any reasonable person not to be.
I am not disregarding evidence, however I am not about to jump on the band wagon just because a few new age authors choose to write about it.
These people are not independent third parties. Why have you been unable to show us a third-party independent study in a peer-reviewed journal? There are plenty of parapsychologists which claim to have evidence but it conveniently dissipates when a third-party, non-parapsychologist investigates.
Again I reiterate.
* The typical magnet used produces insufficient magnetic field to have a lasting effect on muscle tissue, bones, blood vessels, or organs.
* Researchers in high-energy physics laboratories can work for hours per day with their whole body immersed in magnetic fields far stronger than those from the bracelets, and there is no evidence they are more or less healthy than their peers.[citation needed] This shows that all magnetic fields do not have a noticeable health effect.
* No magnet healing manufacturer has demonstrated scientifically that its products achieve what they claim, and most cannot agree on what exactly the magnetic fields do.
* Some manufacturers claim that the magnets help to circulate the blood by interacting with the iron in hemoglobin, a major component of red blood cells. However in its ionised form, iron is not ferromagnetic and would not be subject to magnetic attraction[9], save for magnetohydrodynamic forces due to its charge.
* Others claim that the magnets can restore the body's theorised "electromagnetic energy balance". Needless to say, there is no serious scientific theory within which such a thing as the electromagnetic balance of the body would exist.
* There are also claims that the south pole of a magnet acts differently on the body than the north pole. [1].
* Many of the websites that provide information and resources promoting the benefits of magnetic therapy belong to individuals and companies that profit from the sale of magnetic therapy products.
* Water is a diamagnetic material, and thus cannot be magnetized. However magnetic fields have physical effects on all molecules and electrons; in particular, static magnetic fields shift the proton precession frequency of hydrogen nuclei by aligning their spins. However, within the magnetic field of the earth, the relaxation times are on the order of seconds, and thus this effect does not last. Also, magnetic bodies always have two poles and it is unclear how water can be reasonably labeled as magnetized, let alone "north pole" or "south pole" magnetized.
Anyways I am sick to death of this argument, oddly enough Life Mirage, im starting to get a headache from reading this as well.
QUOTE
Anyways I am sick to death of this argument, oddly enough Life Mirage, im starting to get a headache from reading this as well.
Are you stating a fact, Max? Or are you speaking hyperbolically?
QUOTE(Transcender @ Jan 06, 2008, 10:18 PM)
I grew sugar baby watermelons a few years ago to experiment with magnetizing the seeds and the water I used to water them with. I measured the amount of water I gave them so each plant received the same quantity, and they were grown in the exact same soil and given the same type and dose of fertilizer. In addition, they were all exposed to the same amount of sunlight each day. ...
CONNECTION BETWEEN BRAIN WAVES AND MAGNETISM?
Have you heard about the work of the late Dr. Franklin Loehr? I met him in the 1960's. A very interesting human being.
http://www.plim.org/PrayerDeb.htm He was not just a scientist, who believed strongly in research, he was also a minister.
========================================================
RESEARCH ON RELIGION AND THE POWER OF PRAYER ON PLANTS
========================================================
In a study on germinating seeds done by Dr. Franklin Loehr, a Presbyterian minister and scientist, the objective was to see in a controlled experiment what effect prayer had over living and seemingly non-living matter. In one experiment they took three pans of various types of seeds. One was the control pan. One pan received positive prayer, and the other received negative prayer. Time after time, the results indicated that prayer helped speed germination and produced more vigorous plants. Prayers of negation actually halted germination in some plants and suppressed growth in others.
==========================
Rev. Dr. Franklin Loehr was a scientist and theologian who founded an institute for research into the claims of religion, and served as its director for 36 years. He authored numerous books and articles, including The Power of Prayer on Plants, Diary After Death, and Science, Religion, and the Development of Religion as a Science. (See our catalog.) He was a gifted thinker, speaker, researcher, and musical composer, as well as an author...
MY DAUGHTER'S EXPERIMENT USING TOMATO PLANTS
==============================================
Dr. Loehr challenged all who heard him: "Don't take my word from it; I encourage anyone to do their own research."
When she was in high school, my daughter--her life was literally saved by the things I learned from Loehr, and Wittkofski, below--my daughter did an experiment on tomato plants. The experiment was supervised by several teachers (one was her science teacher), who were curious about the whole thing. I supervised her, also. I have a copy of the results still on file. In the same file I have copy of Dr. Loehr's book.
The results of the several experiments were dramatic. The experiments involved treating all plants, equally, except for the prayers involved. I a prayer-like attitude, she spoke to and imagined the results she desired to get in each of the experiments.
In one experiment--where she offerd negative prayers--the process caused one pot of plants to wither and almost die, while another group thrived. Then she reversed the process and caused the healthy plants to wither and die, while the weakened plants went on to thrive.
In one experiment, I observed her when she put a pot of young tomato plants in our freezer and froze them. They survived. Later, when she finished doing the experiments, I transplanted them and had wonderful tomatoes from them.
================================
I was also inspired by the work of:
The Rev. Canon Joseph P. Wittkofski--a former RC priest who was, when I met him, the Episcopalian minister of a church near Pittsburg, Pa. He had the full approval of the Episcopalian Bishop of Pittsburg.
http://www.durbinhypnosis.com/hypnosis_and...on_volume_2.htm
A GROUP OF US DID STUDIES WITH WITTKOFSKI
Under the tutelage--equivalent, in terms of time and quality, to a university course--of Father Joe, as we called him, we studied how to use hypnosis as a tool in helping prayer be specific and effective.
Later, I gave courses at Wittkofski's THE BRAID INSTITUTE. When I told him about my exploration of the history of pneumatology, and that, based on this, I was now using term I coined, 'pneumatherapy'--to get away from hocus pocus connected with hypnosis--he gave the idea his full approval.
When magnetizing seeds, you need to have a magnet that separates the North and South poles, and unipolar biomagnets are designed in that manner. The North pole is on the opposite side of the magnet as the South pole. So, you can place seeds (or a bottle of water) on either the North or the South pole side of the magnet ( of 1000-4500 gauss for water) to magnetize them. Water only needs to be left on the magnet from 5-20 minutes, depending on how powerful the magnet is. Seeds, on the other hand, need to be left on the magnet (of 1500-2500 gauss) for between 48 and 144 hours according to the research of Davis and Rawls. Each species not only has specific, reproducable effects when seeds are put on a particular pole, but specific time frames for best results. So to get the optimal growth for a certain species, you must experiment with both the North and South poles, and leave seeds on the magnet for different lengths of time and take note of how the plant grows in comparison to other plants in the experiment. The seeds must be planted within a day or two after they've been magnetized. The effects that the magnetic fields have on water only last for 2-3 days after the container has been removed from the magnet.
The studies that conclude that magnets have no therapeutic value are flawed (I'm certain in many cases deliberately). The North and South poles have opposite effects, so any study that uses bipolar magnets (with both poles on one side of the magnet) will not show consistent results, period. Sometimes it will seem to help, other times it won't. Plus, if the magnets used are too weak, or they aren't used for a long enough period of time, the results won't be impressive. Sometimes magnets will show very quick results (particularly with new injuries), but other times it can take weeks, or even a few months to show a big improvement. Still, in many of those cases, the results are better than conventional treatments and much, much less expensive.
Magnetic fields, such as those that are produced by an MRI, do have effects on people, they just aren't reported in the media. Again, a controlled and corrupt media can't be trusted to give accurate information on every topic, and that is the reality of the media today. Until you understand that you'll continue to be misinformed on many issues. I don't mean to say that nothing in the mainstream media is accurate, but there is quite a lot that isn't. Officially, there are no side effects from MRI's, but here are some stories from many people that have had side effects from them. Is this a placebo?
http://trusted.md/blog/tyler24476/2006/01/...ri_side_effects
I did mention a study published in a major medical journal on the discoveries of Davis and Rawls, remember? The Journal of the National Medical Association, Volume 82, Number 9. It was published in 1990.
The studies that conclude that magnets have no therapeutic value are flawed (I'm certain in many cases deliberately). The North and South poles have opposite effects, so any study that uses bipolar magnets (with both poles on one side of the magnet) will not show consistent results, period. Sometimes it will seem to help, other times it won't. Plus, if the magnets used are too weak, or they aren't used for a long enough period of time, the results won't be impressive. Sometimes magnets will show very quick results (particularly with new injuries), but other times it can take weeks, or even a few months to show a big improvement. Still, in many of those cases, the results are better than conventional treatments and much, much less expensive.
Magnetic fields, such as those that are produced by an MRI, do have effects on people, they just aren't reported in the media. Again, a controlled and corrupt media can't be trusted to give accurate information on every topic, and that is the reality of the media today. Until you understand that you'll continue to be misinformed on many issues. I don't mean to say that nothing in the mainstream media is accurate, but there is quite a lot that isn't. Officially, there are no side effects from MRI's, but here are some stories from many people that have had side effects from them. Is this a placebo?
http://trusted.md/blog/tyler24476/2006/01/...ri_side_effects
I did mention a study published in a major medical journal on the discoveries of Davis and Rawls, remember? The Journal of the National Medical Association, Volume 82, Number 9. It was published in 1990.
Well considering MRI's tend to give people panic attacks at the time, its not inconceivable that people worry about the MRI's impact on health afterwards too.
I am not exactly a green-fingered person but next time anyone I know is planting seeds I may attempt a little magnetic experiment of my own. However I can not go with the power of prayer helping plants grow. Since prayer has not been proven to do anything other than put people in different mindsets, a kind of magic ritual, then its far too easy for people to attack research that turns up nothing with the arguement that they just didn't have enough faith or belief in their prayers.
As a side note on placebos, its been found that over half of doctors have dolled out a placebo to patients. This is disgusting to me, not because it was false medicine that any faith healer could administer, but because they have charged £6.50 for the 'medicine'. Medical robbery.
I am not exactly a green-fingered person but next time anyone I know is planting seeds I may attempt a little magnetic experiment of my own. However I can not go with the power of prayer helping plants grow. Since prayer has not been proven to do anything other than put people in different mindsets, a kind of magic ritual, then its far too easy for people to attack research that turns up nothing with the arguement that they just didn't have enough faith or belief in their prayers.
QUOTE
The seeds must be planted within a day or two after they've been magnetized. The effects that the magnetic fields have on water only last for 2-3 days after the container has been removed from the magnet.
This ignores what myself and Max have posted. The hydrogen bonds in water change and any changes in the spin of electrons etc. are lost within 1 second of removing the magnetic field. I also can't see how a seed can hold any polarity at all, its not even close to a system that has bioelectric currents that may be subject to the fields. Lastly I feel if what is being said is true, then we should see some pretty big differences in the north and south regions of Earth.As a side note on placebos, its been found that over half of doctors have dolled out a placebo to patients. This is disgusting to me, not because it was false medicine that any faith healer could administer, but because they have charged £6.50 for the 'medicine'. Medical robbery.
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