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Hudzon
It's hard to put it in words, but if I had to phrase the question in a simple way then: what is "happiness"?

And: Are you happy?
Kclo4x
QUOTE(Hudzon @ Dec 19, 2007, 05:25 PM) *

It's hard to put it in words, but if I had to phrase the question in a simple way then: what is "happiness"?

And: Are you happy?



I have been having this same problem.
I know that it is not pleasure, that is for sure, i believe.


My definitions of happiness is like the definition of cold.

Cold is not real, it is simply the lack of energy. I think happiness is the same way, it is not real, it is simply the lack of misery. Absolute happiness, would be zero misery, just like absolute zero, there is movment of particles.

And, i don't have much misery in my life, so yes i am happy
Discordia
QUOTE(Kclo4x @ Dec 19, 2007, 05:15 PM) *

QUOTE(Hudzon @ Dec 19, 2007, 05:25 PM) *

It's hard to put it in words, but if I had to phrase the question in a simple way then: what is "happiness"?

And: Are you happy?



I have been having this same problem.
I know that it is not pleasure, that is for sure, i believe.


My definitions of happiness is like the definition of cold.

Cold is not real, it is simply the lack of energy. I think happiness is the same way, it is not real, it is simply the lack of misery. Absolute happiness, would be zero misery, just like absolute zero, there is movment of particles.

And, i don't have much misery in my life, so yes i am happy



I agree with this guy, Oscar Wilde has this same outlook. Happiness is a lack of misery. I cannot remember the last time I truly felt completely happy. There is always a hint of misery in my life.
maximus242
I dono about that one. I think you can be not miserable yet not entirely happy either. You could be in a state where you are not sad - yet you are not happy either, in a state where you are not feeling much as far as powerful emotions are concerned.

I think happiness is an emotion which you feel euphoric and in a state of bliss - however it is possible to not be miserable yet at the same time not be in a state of bliss.
Discordia
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 19, 2007, 07:00 PM) *

I dono about that one. I think you can be not miserable yet not entirely happy either. You could be in a state where you are not sad - yet you are not happy either, in a state where you are not feeling much as far as powerful emotions are concerned.

I think happiness is an emotion which you feel euphoric and in a state of bliss - however it is possible to not be miserable yet at the same time not be in a state of bliss.


Well here are some results from Wikipedia

1. About 50% of one's happiness depends on one's genes. This is shown by studying identical twins, and learning that their happiness is 50% correlated even when growing up in different houses.
2. 10-15% is a result of various measurable variables. Like socioeconomic status, marital status, health, income, and others.
3. The rest of the variance does not have a discernible cause. Called "unexplained variance", it may actually be attributed to noise.

50% comes from genes, 10-15 comes from different aspects of life, and is rest seems to be unknown. Personally, if all of those variables were true, I would be truly happy. That 10-15 percent seems to effect me personally, more so then anything else.
code buttons
Happiness is also fractal and relative with respect to time. You can have a moment of happiness, but you can live a life of misery. Or vice-versa. In both respects, I can say that I am happy to a certain extent. It's a mind game with me. I find myself looking hard within sometimes for happiness in the face of adversity. Unfortunately, I am the most non-complacent man in the world, and this unrelentent search for perfection keeps a little flame of unhappiness that I can never put out; even in my moments of greatest bliss. It is my life-long battle.
Discordia
QUOTE(code buttons @ Dec 19, 2007, 07:26 PM) *

I am the most non-complacent man in the world, and this unrelentent search for perfection keeps a little flame of unhappiness that I can never put out; even in my moments of greatest bliss. It is my life-long battle.



I can understand this, and no matter what I do I am never content. (Not trying to steal your thoughts.)
Kclo4x
Feeling good, euphoric, pleased, etc is not necessarily happiness. I think it is just types of pleasure.

Could you explain how people can have just moments of happiness?
maximus242
Because people are happiest when their deepest desires are fulfilled, this usually happens only briefly and rarely.

The level of desire that is fulfilled is relative to the level of happiness one feels. Something simple like the craving for chocolate can bring about minor sensation for a minor desire.

Achieving a lifelong goal or something which one has striven for with great difficulty will bring about more happiness because the value of that which is obtained is risen in value via perception. The harder something is to obtain, the more rare or scarce it is - the more valuable it is in our minds. So when we have a desire and endure much difficulty to achieve it, we value it that much more.

This is theoretically the reason why lottery winners lose their money a lot faster than those who have worked for it. To the lottery winner they needed only to select numbers and then receive the money. On the other side of the coin the millionaires who earned their money had to work for it and came to value the money that much more.

Truthfully, money has no value, it is cotton paper. However it is the things which are associated with money which give it value and power. In truth, money itself is quite useless it is only because people accept it in exchange for other things that it has value in the perception of ones mind.

This perception has many ways in which it can increase or decrease the perceived value of something relative to psychology. At the end of the day, desire is relative to perception - and the level of desire fulfilled is relative to the level of happiness one feels.

Therefore, happiness is equal to perception.
Joesus


There's a story about God visiting earth. Walking amongst the people a Yogi who meditates every day and studying scripture every day, recognizes the divine light radiating from God and greets him, asking, "Master how much longer will it be before I realize the bliss of full human consciousness?"
God replies, "At the current rate of your practice and devotion, 7 more lifetimes should do it."
The Yogi, horrified at spending 7 more lifetimes doing the same thing, shouts at God, "Impostor, what could you possibly know of such things. Leave my sight this instant!"
God continuing his journey, comes upon a simple man splashing and singing in the water of a nearby river.
Recognizing the divine light the man in the water asks God, "Master, how many more lifetimes before I reach the ultimate bliss consciousness?"
God replies, "For you only 70 more lifetimes before you reach the ultimate bliss consciousness."
The man exclaims excitedly, "70 more lifetimes of this happiness!!! Oh what a blessing, thank you master, thank you."
The man instantly reached the highest consciousness.
maximus242
Interesting, I wonder if the highest state of consciousness could indeed be summed up as being eternally happy? I mean what are we really searching for anyways?

I think the answer has always been things which we believe will make us happy. In truth, perhaps enlightenment is really about becoming happy?
Joesus
I'd say it's the ability to appreciate everything always, without attaching judgment to any kind of feeling.
If you remove the judgment, emotions are an energetic expression lighting up the nervous system.
Happiness gives way to bliss or the removal of attachments to the nervous system, like dropping a 100lb sack of racks after carrying them for years.
You move through experience and experience rolls off your back like water off of a duck.

Don't know if you've ever heard this before but there is a recording of crickets that is overlapped with a slowed down version of the same recording. The slowed down version sounds like a celestial choir singing praise. http://www.discoverhealingmusic.com/JimWil...rus_JWilson.asp
It is said that nature sings this song of praise to the creator, in a voice that is unique to each form.
When humans find their flow with the nature of the universe then humans become resonant with the universe and sing/vibrate in resonance with the being of everything.

In the Upanishads, those ancient texts of Unity, there is an interesting passage describing the bliss of full human realization:
This is the inquiry concerning bliss.
Let there be a youth, a good youth, well read, prompt in action, steady in mind and strong in body. Let this whole earth be full of wealth for him. That is one human bliss.
That which is a hundred times the human bliss, that is one bliss of the human angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the human angels, that is one bliss of the divine angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

That which is a hundred times the bliss of the divine angels, that is one bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, that is one bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, that is one bliss of the gods by work, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods by work, that is one bliss of the gods, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods, that is one bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, that is one bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded  and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, that is one bliss of God the Creator, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of God the Creator, that is one bliss of God the Father, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

The glory of full human realization is beyond the ability of any words to express. There are no limits to the human condition other than those we artificially impose due to painful past belief in limitation, suffering and loss.
trojan_libido
QUOTE
I think happiness is the same way, it is not real, it is simply the lack of misery.
It could just as easily be said that happiness is the only 'real' thing and misery is the lack of happiness. Both are concepts involving feelings, which are subjective to each of us.

People who have a happy smile on their face constantly, only make those who are not smiling aggressive and resentful. The old cliched smiling airport attendant endlessly repeating 'Welcome to xxxxx' - 'Thank you for your custom' or other such phrases actually creates resentment rather than spreading happiness.

QUOTE
The man exclaims excitedly, "70 more lifetimes of this happiness!!! Oh what a blessing, thank you master, thank you."
The man instantly reached the highest consciousness.
Happy happy joy joy? I'm glad I'm not as simple as the guy in your story, otherwise authorities and corporations would have totally enslaved the human race. Its a nice story for the message of be happy in whatever your do, but unfortunately you can't force happiness, just like you can't fully control the thoughts that come through your mind as you day dream while you do menial tasks.

I do put weight in the old adage ignorance is bliss. The more intelligent we become, the more aware we are of the greater dangers we are placing on our environment, which adds to the possibility of depression and sadness. If we were only aware of our own little environment, then a sunny day is just a sunny day, no worrying or sympathising with tsunami or famine victims.
Joesus
QUOTE
The man exclaims excitedly, "70 more lifetimes of this happiness!!! Oh what a blessing, thank you master, thank you."
The man instantly reached the highest consciousness.
Happy happy joy joy? I'm glad I'm not as simple as the guy in your story, otherwise authorities and corporations would have totally enslaved the human race. Its a nice story for the message of be happy in whatever your do, but unfortunately you can't force happiness, just like you can't fully control the thoughts that come through your mind as you day dream while you do menial tasks.

I do put weight in the old adage ignorance is bliss. The more intelligent we become, the more aware we are of the greater dangers we are placing on our environment, which adds to the possibility of depression and sadness. If we were only aware of our own little environment, then a sunny day is just a sunny day, no worrying or sympathising with tsunami or famine victims.

The story describes the innocence of being in the perpetual moment, rather than ignorance. The man splashing in the river has given all attention to the resonance of creation and the potential now, without giving much thought to the ideas of danger and compounding it with thoughts of how it makes things worse, he is ready to meet any and every situation with full attention and no projections of where it will take him.
With this much free energy to devote to each moment he is not burdened by scenarios created in his mind that there is anything wrong with this moment to compound with ideas of what will come to add to misery.

In the Teachings of enlightened masters, ignorance is the ignoring of pure potential and the awareness that you create your own reality.
If perception of reality is such that you believe it comes at you rather than it being created by you and your perceptions of Self and God, then you live in ignorance.
In that sense ignorance is not bliss but living hell.

Becoming more conscious of potential and stilling the mind so that it does not cycle the 100,000 some odd thoughts we think each day of the past and possible futures containing all the negatives of the past, with hopes of interjecting something new based on past experiences by rearranging scenarios in the mind daydreaming of what isn't being experienced................................leaves the mind energetically free of misery, fear, doubt, and open to possibility.
Meeting any subjective experience with an open mind rather than a closed mind or a mind that assumes an only outcome opens the door to limitless possibilities.
Becoming conscious does not ignore the limitations humanity has placed in front of themselves and the dangers of the repercussions taking place as a result of greed, fear of losing control of any situation and the ignorance of suffering in our selves and our brothers and sisters, it sharpens the intellect and opens the heart to move in a direction that not only benefits ones self but all of humanity.
There is no ignorance in bliss, quite the opposite, there is expanded awareness and sharpness of intellect.

Relative happiness is often plagued by ignorance, and dependent on the association of sensory pleasure and association to feelings. Happiness is easily destroyed by the incoming thought of something opposing the thought of happiness. Those who are educated are often filled with the opposing thoughts to possibility and burdened with memories of what is evil and foreboding in any relatively peaceful situation.

With the education of society as it is, and the consciousness of humanity as it is, the corporations have been painted as cooperative minds seeking to benefit themselves and the earth.
So far they are benefiting themselves at the earths expense and we are a support system feeding off of the industry and its product. Self gratification, lack of self worth, fear of not having enough, etc. etc.
Society projects happiness in our world as drinking the right beer, driving the supreme SUV and saving a few pennies at the gas pump by making it green, being in an ideal relationship, having a nice house, money..etc.etc.
We aren't taught spiritual values in school, connecting ourselves to humanity. We are taught to compete with others and that it's OK to leave our brothers and sisters behind to climb the social ladder. We are taught social values based on material wealth, and the support of industry which destroys the earth, and the support of Government that doesn't support the health of spiritual connectedness in humanity but supports democracy or the rule of the majority that is educated to ignore reality and to live for personal gain and self gratification through competition and separation.
Then if we feel inclined, and if we have some extra, we might feel inclined to do something generous like drop a can of peas or string beans in a box for the less fortunate.

Happiness is an illusion.
Rick
William Burroughs, in his novel Naked Lunch, said that the heroin addicts have a saying, "if God made anything better than heroin, He kept it for Himself." Maybe the heroin addicts are onto something.

(Before you go do anything rash, please note that Burroughs added a section at the end of his book titled "A word to the Wise" in which he disuades the reader from trying heroin.)
Discordia
QUOTE(Rick @ Dec 20, 2007, 11:34 AM) *

William Burroughs, in his novel Naked Lunch, said that the heroin addicts have a saying, "if God made anything better than heroin, He kept it for Himself." Maybe the heroin addicts are onto something.

(Before you go do anything rash, please note that Burroughs added a section at the end of his book titled "A word to the Wise" in which he disuades the reader from trying heroin.)



Yeah tell me about it, two good friends of mine have died from heroin. I have read Naked Lunch, and there was nothing in that book that gave me the urge to try heroin anyways.
Rick
QUOTE(Discordia @ Dec 20, 2007, 11:16 AM) *

QUOTE(Rick @ Dec 20, 2007, 11:34 AM) *

William Burroughs, in his novel Naked Lunch, said that the heroin addicts have a saying, "if God made anything better than heroin, He kept it for Himself." Maybe the heroin addicts are onto something.

(Before you go do anything rash, please note that Burroughs added a section at the end of his book titled "A word to the Wise" in which he disuades the reader from trying heroin.)



Yeah tell me about it, two good friends of mine have died from heroin. I have read Naked Lunch, and there was nothing in that book that gave me the urge to try heroin anyways.

As Neil Young sang, "I've seen the needle and the damage done." A promising singer and band leader I kenw in Sacramento died from heroin.
Kclo4x
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Dec 20, 2007, 02:13 AM) *

QUOTE
I think happiness is the same way, it is not real, it is simply the lack of misery.
It could just as easily be said that happiness is the only 'real' thing and misery is the lack of happiness. Both are concepts involving feelings, which are subjective to each of us.

People who have a happy smile on their face constantly, only make those who are not smiling aggressive and resentful. The old cliched smiling airport attendant endlessly repeating 'Welcome to xxxxx' - 'Thank you for your custom' or other such phrases actually creates resentment rather than spreading happiness.



Well, misery can be measured in a chemical way, detected by MRI scans, etc. However can happiness? i don't think so! Unless happiness is pleasure, but i do not think it is. I don't even think it is real, unless you put it in terms like how coldness is real.
I think that a smile is from being pleasured but not from being "happy"

Does a joke make you happy, or does it give you pleasure?
Joesus
QUOTE
William Burroughs, in his novel Naked Lunch, said that the heroin addicts have a saying, "if God made anything better than heroin, He kept it for Himself."

There's also a saying amongst Bikers that if God made anything better than a Harley he kept it for himself.
I've tasted both Heroin and Harleys, tho I rode a Harley far longer than I did the Heroin.
Truth is, all relatively good things lose their sparkle in large consistent doses.
TaylorS
Happiness is being on the path towards self-actualization, or Eudaimonia as the Greeks called it, being free to express one's potential and thus lead a flourishing existance.
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