Ok it was nothing of what i expected. I am still a little buzzed from what happened.

I did not expirience any hallucinations or i don't remember any. I felt pulled to my right with great strength. It felt like my consciousness stretched out and became a rope that was being sucked in. I was so weird that i resisted and tried to come back into my body. I completely lost the track of time or space and i started hearing a voice mentally telling me something like "come here, follow me, let go" I remember saying ok but then getting freaked out a little and resisting it resulting in me sobering up quickly. It was as if someone female gender was attempting to lead me somewhere playfully. Hmm interesting.

There is talk of Salvia coming across as a female Goddess/spirit. Whether you believe in plants having male/female characteristics I don't know, I've not had an 'encounter' but I've also only sample Salvia once. Since its reverse tolerant I think the same dose again would result in a more pronounced 'trip'. Be careful though, freaking out is not good for your soul

I don't believe in soul : \

Then call is psyche; but then again, I am guessing you don't believe in mythology either As humans we have the capacity to think metaphorically--it is not productive to get caught up on language so long as you understand the concept.

That term is confusing, so I avoid it too. For example, mainstream religionists believe that at the instant of fertilization (when the sperm merges with the egg), a mythical entity called "God" imbues the newly formed zygote with something called a "soul", something that animals don't get imbued with. If that is the case, then there must be some identifiable way in which the "ensouled" zygote is different from the unensouled one. Nobody can provide that definition, so the term "soul" is useless, and because it's confusing, worse than useless. Things that are worse than useless, in my book, are to be avoided.

I think the reason you find the concept of 'soul' confusing, is because you seem to me to be a hyper-logical being. To me the "soul" is our capacity to think metaphorically. In this way, it is not at conception that the soul is imbued in the body, but rather is developed throughout a lifetime. I am sure you use the term "psyche" which is "soul" the only difference is the connotation of the words, which is a bi-product of this metaphoric thinking.

I couldn't disagree more.
Psyche implies knowledge of psychology and perhaps materialist/token identity type person. In this case it would imply doing things in self exploration inside the mind or perhaps psychotherapy or mood elevation.

Soul implies spirituality. The use of the word is often by those who favor Dualism/Qualia type of approach to body/mind problem. The word also implies someone doing it for "spiritual" reasons usually implying survival of "soul" after death or some kind of objective purpouse of his existence or some kind of "evolution of the soul" or reincarnation.

So while objectively soul/psyche might mean the same in terms of what is actually influenced by the drug, subjectively they are radically different. I do not believe in any survival of anything after death, so soul is not a logical word for me to use.

It is like saying that ghost and wind are the same in a case of a door opening in a middle of the night. While objectively it doesn't meter because the door opened, subjectively it is very different to say a ghost opened it then wind opened it.

Like I said, your metaphoric thinking is altering reality. The only difference is your connotation. Your interpretation is the ghost, you are creating two terms, when in reality there is only one.

Eros and Psyche, figures in Greek mythology
Psyche (psychology), the original Greek conception of the self Soul or Self (psychology)

Yes as i said i do accept the fact that reality is the same but the connotations are important nevertheless. You cannot ignore connotations of the word.

You mean if someone has given a word connotations that are meaningless to you, you are forced to acknowledge all attributes linking to the beliefs and ideas of mainstream insanity?

But to give importance to connotation, is to give importance to alternate realities, which invalidates any sort of empirical thinking. Thus you have a contradiction. You can not believe in reason and some mystical realm of connotation.

I don't see it that was at all Flex. Plus i don't label myself as strictly empirical person although i often try to use it as a bullshit protection tool.

Well I think the topics slightly diverged, most posts here would rather split hairs over the term 'soul' than the strange concept of a female Goddess within the Salvia experience! Surely if your going to shoot anything down, or take an interest at all, that would be a more fruitful topic?

Soul, Psyche, Living Essence, State of Mind, Pneuma, Spirit. They are concepts that paint pictures in your mind. I could have just as easily said 'Freaking out can be terrifying, and that is bad for you overall state of mind'.

I wish I saw/heard a female Goddess... I was just a sidewalk From watching youtube videos, I have also gathered that a good number of larger people see snack foods, so I don't think the Goddess has any profound meaning.

Unless its the Goddess of Desire! I'm surprised McDonalds hasn't spiked their food with Salvia lol

I wish my country didn't have one of the most draconian drug schedulings, Salvia sounds like fun

It seems your country is simply ahead of its time, since most others are falling into the same trap of prohibition that never worked at any point in history.

Hopefully the change of government over here will bring about less increase in hysteria than what has been experienced over the last decade.

Thank you.

Religionists seem to have an immortality connotation with regard to the term "soul." What do you make of a statement like "he sold his soul to the Devil"? It would imply that the Devil has a claim to posession of the person's "soul" after he or she dies. You said that "soul" is roughly equivelant to psyche (or mind). Do you believe that a psyche is immortal?

Note to TL: entheogenic use is part of a quest for religious truth, so this splinter topic is relevant to the thread title. The very term entheogen implies religious quest.

"He sold his soul to the Devil"

I think in terms of metaphor, so I do not take it to imply that there is a being "Devil" who literally lays claim to the persons "soul". To me this statement is not in regards to death, it is in regards to life.

i.e.

I think of paying taxes to fund a war as literally selling your soul to the Devil. In my statement, "Devil" implies an entity of which I determine to be of evil (the government), the term "selling" literally means selling (monetary exchange for a good or service), and "soul" is what is being sold (moral, righteous living, in exchange for the comfort provided by the evil entity).

Selling your soul to the Devil does not have to have any religious implications, I am simply alluding to mythology. I think you would be hard pressed to find any real instances of the "Devil" in the Bible. I think your notion of "Devil" and "Hell" are the products of poets, not the religious texts.

Now bringing this back to Salvia--I think the experience from a trip is very similar to what I believe dreams are--metaphoric representations of subconscious. A dream to me is like watching a story, and through the anecdote, observing some greater wisdom. Just as reading mythology or fiction can give one greater insight, so to I believe can dreams. In this sense, psychedelic experiences IMO can be very beneficial in understanding "ego" or lack thereof, depending on the individual experience. Psychedelic experiences may also allow our subconscious to manifest itself, and in doing so help our conscious being to communicate with other levels of consciousness; in this sense, psychedelics may provide a gateway to the soul (subconscious). Who knows, perhaps psychedelic experiences could potentially be used as a means of therapy.

I have tried salvia numerous times with astounding results. I was once a the letter "J" on a pack of juicy fruit....and once I was a dolphin swimming through the ocean. After a while, my trips began to take me to the same place time after time. It is a very difficult place to describe, but it is a happy place. I become a part of some other race and we all seem to be working toward some specific goal.

Also (from my experience) females tend to have a bad experience with salvia. Not sure why though.

I believe that all living things have a soul. It's the universal connector.
It what connects us to each other, the earth, planets, universe and GOD.

I believe the soul is pure energy and part of the purest energy that resides in everything.

I think if you take to time to stop analyzing and just be, you can feel it's presence inside and all around you.

As far as ghost are concerned. They are real. It dosen't matter if you believe in them or not. They seem to be a lesser form of energy. I'm sure in time we will be able to prove their existence for those that need to see the "scientific proof"


peace and love