dean has eradicated death from the universe
yet
you all want to keep death here
is that because you are envious of dean
or have you some death wish-freud did say humans have a death instinct
given a choice between have death and not having death
you all take death -gee some strange psychology going on here

Tell us what death is and what the universe is.

There is no You all, only you, and you are the one who keeps speaking of death.

If all one can think or espouse that is noteworthy is what dean has accomplished I'd say that would be indicative of an identification with Dean.

You believe everything you read?

You are taking this stand, just as you are taking deans stand, where do you stand?

all views end in meaninglessness
even the view that all views end in meaninglessness

So why take a view, observe a view and why are you so interested in bringing Dean here?
Where do you stand?


Tell us what death is, what the universe is and what Dean is.

But more importantly who you are.

I believe that Life is the answer to a question no one knows (maybe we will find out the question when Lifes counterpart enters the equation).

As a human being I do have a death instinct; the only way to answer my speculations on death is to die, so at some point I look foreward to destruction. Why does everyone seek to live longer, and find the fountain of youth? The only purpose in living longer, is to live longer.

Once again I will ask you: if you had a gun in your hands pointed at your head, would you pull the trigger? If not then Dean has accomplished nothing, because you still fear pain and death.

Here is a quote, please pay attention to what is underlined in bold:



Please all pay attention to this very two parts:

1) Collapses into absurdity
2) Absurdities (i.e. self-contradiction, infinite regress, paradox, circularities and dilemmas) exist within a word, image, concept, or anything else as a yet to be discovered statue exists within the block of marble.

Let us concentrate our attention on word CONTRADICTIONS.

A) If to suppose that all what we consider contains CONTRADICTIONS, then we should conclude that the METHOD or the WAY we use to consider something contains ERROR leading to the mentioned CONTRADICTIONS and/or PARADOX.
So we should conclude that the METHOD of the WAY are somehow WRONG.
C) SO if to suppose that we decide to ACCEPT Mr. Dean's studies as correct at first approximation, then we should say that from Mr. Dean's work follows that the METHOD or the WAY we use to consider things in sciences is somehow wrong and that we should start a quest for NEW METHOD.

The point "C" is a healthy core one can draw from Mr. Dean's study. At the same time, the case studies in his work should be extended over considerations of Physical phenomena and over ontology in Physics and if there he will demonstrate that there are serious contradictions, then his conclusions can be taken as a base for initiation of new investigation over scientific methods of research in general.

So Nightrover, are you agree with these statments?

You mean a meaningful opinion?

I'm sorry to correct you Enki, but The Matrix does exist. And it's properties are astoundingly similar to the ones described in the movie by the same name. In fact, the movie was a wake-up call, and a deja-vu of sorts for me. And yes, we humans have the freedom to choose between the red and the blue pill. At least at the present moment:

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/Articles/Es...e%20Matrix.html

and again, a couple of links I posted before, and you may have missed:

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17723&hl=

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/money-masters.html

conclusions being views
will end in meaninglessness as well
as this applies to dean as well
i think of which he is quite aware



so



this conclusion will end in meaninglesness
just as the conclusion that
So we should conclude that the METHOD of the WAY are somehow CORRECT-- end in meaninglesness.

and dean does say logic language themselves end in meaninglessness

Can we please make a rule that if you don't have anything new to contribute, your post will be deleted?

I fear these forums are becoming rather meaningless~

Ha ha! You think this is bad! There once was a troller by the name of Cybert. He makes Rover look like a choir boy! He had to actually be banned from this forum; he was that bad. Rover's actually just an annoyance. High school starts Monday, by the way. So for the time being, I suggest you just ignore his posts and in no time he'll go down into meaninglessness and oblivion.

Post edited by moderator for offensive content. Nightrover, please avoid dogmatic redundance or your posts will be deleted or edited.

Code Buttons

I have mentioned that there is no solid scientific proof commonly accepted in scientific community that the Matrix exists.

Besides if the Matrix really exists, then why it permitted the Brothers Wachovski to screen three chapters, make seminars, earn so much money etc? I think it is a good question. Paracelsus concepts about the parallel worlds sound more interesting than Wachovski brothers’ ideas. They sparked the torch, no doubt that they personally tested those drugs (they both look a little crazy on photos btw ), but it is quite dangerous if all start to take the red pill. What if they jump into rooms of illusions? That is possible. It is very possible.
Though I should agree that demon Lilit’s description in the old texts and the description of the two Angles sent to capture her coincide with the spiderish outlook indeed... But it is not a ground to jump to conclusions. If many people after the red pill see the same things it does not mean that what all see is a part of the reality.

Some see Matrix, some talk with Isis, some travel in Narnia, some fight in the Middle Earth, some find the Oasis in the desert described in Talmud, some enter into the gardens of Osiris, some navigate and meet Sir Isaac Newton in the Invisible College and other interesting gentlemen (there are rumors that some even study there ...), some find Tot’s rooms, some swing and dream on rocking-chair of Benjamin Franklin (instead rotating like a Sufi ...), some look for the Kingdom of Heavens of the John Baptist and/or Jesus, etc some find the gateway to the New Atlantis of Sir Francis and The O’Silvas and many, many, many, many other interesting places...

Anyway, I think that any direct discussion on Matrix subject cannot and should not be conducted in open forum regime. If Shawn opens a hidden forum chamber on Brain Meta for such discussions, then I think that interesting ideas can be exchanged on the subject. Some sort of Brain Meta club.

And thank you for the links, they are interesting. But I have many Buts and Con arguments on the subject.

How can I judge someone as dead while I do not know a meaning of life..??

let me try..

I think I can judge that like many other judgments at many other fields..

For example, the Geometric essence "the line & the point". I can judge all what exists in Eucledian geometry without a settlement about what is the point or what is the line is.
We may have a long debate about "what is matter?" but after all I can deal well with matter at my everyday life.

For me, the question seems like..."How can you say that you are gravid to the earth while you do not know anything about laws of gravity?"
It is not essential to know what life is for the "everyday death"..while it will be essential at the issues likes brainstem death etc.

At last, I would like to say that "thinking benefit is in getting patterns in Randomness not for creating a pattern for randomness"


Wafa

I don't particularly believe in esoteric practices or discussions regarding subjects of such extraordinary importance to humanity in general. People in general live in a voluntary state of bliss anyway; This forum ant the number of active contributors is living testimony of that. But I do realize how much damage can secret information in the wrong hands do. There are a lot of wrong things going on out there, and most of them man-made. We need to have a wake-up call before it's too late. And this place could be a good starting point. But there is that dark side to humanity which understands no rational, which we have to guard against. And in the end, it will be the outcome of that struggle between good and evil within all of us and as indivuduals which will determine the fate of humanity; and of life in general, I believe.

Colin Leslie Dean is not the first nor will he be the last to be coming up with this theory.

Death is a theoretical thing of the human mind involving and related to perception.

You want a definition for death? Alright, I will give you a concrete and real one. We can define death as a change in a collective group of cells (meaning any living thing) that causes this collective to cease it's communication with reality in such a way that this communication cannot be restored by any known means.

So what I am saying is that if a person falls asleep, they can be considered alive because they can be restored to a state where they consciously interact with this world. However, when an individual enters into a state where they cannot be brought back into contact with this reality by any known means - they can be considered dead.

In essence, if a person is in a Coma, they are alive because it is possible to bring them back into contact with this reality. If a person enters into a state, in which medical science is unaware of any way to revive them - they can be thought of as dead.

Death can be seen as the cessation of communication with this reality in such a way that said communication cannot be restored.

I agree with Maximus..

There is a Huge difference between experience(which is perception of an existing something) and the meaning or definition of such experience(which is the very elegant function done by our PFC)

Death is an experienced aspect..it is not a problem to judge someone as dead from this experience, even when I do not have a definite meaning about it.

"Since long time, someone find another on the ground, not talking not communicating not eating, the first left him for some days and then returned to that one on the ground and found him with a bad odor and his body has some strange changes."
The first one termed that state as a dead man..and since that time we use this term to describe such state..

WHAT is the problem with that????!!!!


Wafa

There aint nothing wrong with that, but it, like Nightrover and his vacuous generalities about death are subjective and objective at many levels.
Death of the body and death of the soul are two different things.

Nightrover sorta kinda eludes to higher states of consciousness and the principles behind his understanding of what he calls Dean, but he, in representation of dean uses language that doesn't say anything that lead toward the keys to understanding.
Mostly his language leads to Dean, and he doesn't say much other than what he believes Dean has done thru his weak use the English language.
I say weak because he has taken on the belief that words have no meaning and as such he lacks the commitment and energy to move his ideas or Deans ideas and accomplishments thru words. C'est la Vie (Such is life)

Death to an immortal has less meaning than it does to someone who is attached to their mortality, and in such a case one could say death is meaningless but since everything is connected at all levels there is no absolute reality to meaninglessness other than at a subjective level of meaning.
Same as life. Life in terms of the absolute are that life is, and always will be, and always has been. Understanding and experience of this can't be explained in a book by anyone. So to say Dean has done anything is relative to knowing the subject matter Dean has written of and knowing Dean. Nightrover talks a sales pitch toward the greatness of Dean but it is his measurement of accomplishment and quality and it would be difficult for anyone to meet him at his terms if not impossible being that no two can experience life the same way.

Some in the Eastern traditions have taken the position that life is an illusion but that is a relative statement meaning that everything is created from a platform of the absolute which cannot be contained or defined in any terms or experience, but it does not mean that experience of the absolute doesn't exist in the reflections of experience of definitions, and the contained experiences of life as it is defined or idealized.

Nightrover seems to be throwing out bait to see if anyone will bite on his words, but I'd say he isn't a very good fisher of men.

nightrover,

It is definition of life in ALL its possible aspects which is presently undefined, NOT Human life!
Can you detect no differences between humans which are alive and humans which are dead?
There are obviously major differences, and if you are unable to see them you are brain dead if not dead altogether and getting someone else to write your pre-ordained wishes!
This obviously is my opinion, but it is based on simply obtained information.

I do not trust esoteric practices either and I am a great proponent of the scientific approach. At the same time initial conceptual discussions on the subject should not pass on public.

I am against wake-up call, because you never know who will get up...

The best way is the preservation of the balance, equilibrium and sustainable development of the Civilization in any case, even in case if the Matrix exists. Hardly Mr. Lucas's concept about order # 66 can ever come into existence in a way he presented in the Star Wars.
If nothing serious have happened after 9/11 then nothing serious will happen after that at all. The days of Hitler and Stalin are over. We are living in multi-cultural word which cannot be surprised by anything. Except some tremendous scientific discovery which will entirely change human perception of the self-being. But I think that the governments are wise enough and never will permit such knowledge to come along in the scientific press.

So nothing serious will happen. I am skeptical on these subjects.
Phase transitions are rare. They still can happen, but will not trigger global changes.

Only 'Gods' can cause phase transition.
And as Rick says they do not exist.

Such as:
Someone reaching Consciousness Singularity
E.T. does exist and they comunicate with us

These two are entirely possible scenarios; why should they be kept secret unless for personal gain?

The Governments, hey?! Sounds more like The Matrix gate-keepers.

P.S. We're so off-topic in this thread by now, that it's getting ridiculous!

>P.S. We're so off-topic in this thread by now, that it's getting ridiculous!

There is no off-topic, nigthrover says all is meaningless, so he does not care.

> Such as:Someone reaching Consciousness Singularity

Maybe. I mean something sparking.

>E.T. does exist and they comunicate with us

It is supposed that E.Ts. exist from times of John Dee, so and what?

>These two are entirely possible scenarios; why should they be kept secret unless for personal gain?

Stability. If all become 'magicians' world will collapse.

>The Governments, hey?! Sounds more like The Matrix gate-keepers.

No, no. Just Common Sence.

I have never really been able to grasp the concept behind the consciousness singularity. Is there anyone who could possibly explain it in lamens terms?

Do you mean a sort of flocking instinct, or a form of telepathy?

Since we are way off topic anyways, has anyone read Cell? It does not have any great literary merit, but it is an interesting story and concept nonetheless.

As per Shawn Mikula:

"The '''Consciousness Singularity''' refers to a hypothetical point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a collective state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.

The term "Singularity", as used in this article's context, is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the Consciousness Singularity because it is beyond our cognitive and imaginative capabilities.

The Consciousness Singularity bears no relation to the Technological Singularity, which involves the creation of smarter-than-human machines. Nor is the Consciousness Singularity synonymous with Tielhard de Chardin's Omega Point, which is a nucleus around which the consciousness of the whole humanity will finally crystallize. Rather, the Consciousness Singularity is a distinct concept that refers to a collective transcendence of our human consciousness into the next level.

To get a better intuition for the Consciousness Singularity, imagine, if you will, what a monkey or a rat would experience if suddenly its consciousness became like that of a human. Before the transition, it would be incapable of imagining what it's like to have human consciousness simply because it's beyond its limited cognitive capabilities. In the same manner, our species will undergo such abrupt transitions in consciousness of such magnitude that we cannot even begin to fathom what these new states of consciousness are like.

At the Consciousness Singularity, history as we know it, will cease. The universe, as we experience it now, will cease. Consider the most transcendent and mystical states of consciousness that have yet been experienced by mankind: these will pale in comparison with what's to come.

At the Consciousness Singularity, our consciousness will be expanded beyond the confines of an egocentric sense of self to include transpersonal experiences and transcendent self-identity. This new existence will be both a form of collective consciousness and a form of expanded individual consciousness. Though sounding like a contradiction, these two descriptions of transcendent consciousness are really flip sides of the same coin. The Consciousness Singularity is so far beyond our normal consciousness, that we cannot even begin to comprehend it, much less imagine what it's like to experience directly, unless we ourselves experience or have experienced transcendent states of consciousness."
http://brainmeta.com/index.php?p=consciousness-singularity

Once again I am left in the dark How can you know that there will be a consciousness singularity and what it will be like if it is beyond our current consciousness?

For all we know that higher state of consciousness could be like that of coral (polyps)... Or that higher state of consciousness may have already been reached by every individual who has died and whos energy has been returned to the cosmos.

Who is to say that it would be a "higher" state of consciousness? If our consciousness is just a form of perception, not any truth of reality, who is to say that the singularity will not just be another false perception?

I can imagine many forms of higher consciousness, but all of which involve expanding our senses. I.E. our perception of light is in a very narrow spectrum--maybe in the future we will be able to sense ultraviolet light, radio waves, etc. Or maybe our ears will develop such that we can detect changes in barometric pressure, rather than just sound. Or maybe we will achieve an even greater state of consciousness, like my interpretation of what a Mu Consciousness would be like; similar to that of a tree.

The Consciousness Singularity is really quite simple Flex. It is a giant think tank, where the minds of billions of human beings join together in co-operation like how the cells in your body join together to create something greater than themselves.

You have trillions of cells in your body that are all capable of living as a single, individual entities. Just as how humans are living as individuals. There is a theoretical point in time in which all human minds will join and comminucate with eachother - forming a super consciousness.

This is known as the Consciousness Singularity.

So it is the great coral consciousness that we seek~

We don't know if there will be a CS. We just theorize that there will be. Some of us (me included) actually signed-up to the idea that it is inevitable. We instictually theorize that it will occur as we realize, through science, the seemingly indomitable nature of the Universe as compared to our limited abilities to affect its course. We don't have the remotest idea of what it will be like. But we can speculate about some of its properties:
- It will allow us to attain a state of Oness. With each other and with the Universe which produced us.
- It will give us an ultimate understanding of our nature and the nature of the Universe, and, therefore
- It will allow us to control and manipulate at will the laws that rule our known Universe.

If this was the case, then we'd probably already know this information by now. I just don't think so. That's just my personal opinion.

Who is to say? I don't know. But if (when) we reach a state of consciousness which properties are similar to the ones mentioned above, then, who cares?

[quote name='Flex' post='82239' date='Aug 27, 2007, 09:36 AM']
Who is to say that it would be a "higher" state of consciousness? If our consciousness is just a form of perception, not any truth of reality, who is to say that the singularity will not just be another false perception?
[/quote]
Who is to say? I don't know. But if (when) we reach a state of consciousness which properties are similar to the ones mentioned above, then, who cares?
[/quote]

What is the point of a new consciousness if it does not deliver truth? A relative truth is still not truth.

I.E. 1+1=15 <--- old consciousness 5+7=12 <---- new consciousness. Even though the new consciousness is closer to the truth, it is still false, and thus no better than the old way.

Then you've answer your own question: The C.S. will show us the true nature of reality by definition. Not a refletion of it.

Maybe we have already undergone the CS. Maybe the CS was when we began to use logic and rationalize.

I guess some undergone. Think where from that idea appeared? In true CS is extremely simple concept.

You just should select proper keys (in forms of words and visual patterns), create specific associations for generation of Telepathic Array and it works automatically. But remember that there is a great danger to loose GOD GRANTED FREEDOM OF WILL. While you work over something you plug into the global server and use the global resources via CS effect. It is just the Theory. A hypothesis.

The lost keys of the FM are considered as the main keys of reaching the global CS.

Btw, that is why a clever someone mixed the languages (and the keys) not permitting some gentlemen to near the world to the CS and thus to build the Babylon Tower.

As global key or pattern gateway one can use: Coca-Cola symbol, 911 symbol, CNN symbol, Mona Lisa portrait etc. Or the names of the God.
That is why, possibly in Jewish and Arabic traditions 'God' bans to draw human image. Because sometimes image can live and even speak. Just like the portrait of Dorian Grey.

Now you percept what is CS?

How you can be sure? It can lead to a great danger as well. The spice and the beauty of this world is the variety. CS may lead to very dangerous things Code Buttons. How you can be sure that it will lead to something good?

I should mention, that IF some gentlemen will lead the matter to CS in accelerated mode via visual patterns generation with the help of Hollywood, then eventually, maybe the one who has the Master Keys to everything will interfere as during the Babylon Tower case and will mix all those patterns and keys in a quite simple way. It is just my neutral opinion on the subject.

It is simple and at the same time very dangerous thing Maximus.

They can join together in co-operation but at the same time convert into a Hive controlled by some new creatures in that global think tank.

The idea is a nice one, but the applications are UNPREDICTABLE.

People, let us make this world a peaceful place to live in.
Let us not to make dangerous experiments.
Let us establish such a new world order which
will impart goodness to all human beings.
Let the harmony prevail.

The science is a good thing when it serves for good purposes.
But when science serves ambitions of a closed group of people
things change dramatically and the fires of the Holy Inquisition
may rise from the dust again.
So let us live in peace and not to make experiments of Dr. Faust.

CS is a great idea but at the same time it can turn into a great evil.

Let us all live in peace. OK? Preservation of the Harmony is the key to the peace.

Hffffff. With years it is such a burden to sustain stability of the Matrix.

Hope all points are made clear.

That is why before reaching to CS, security aspects must be considered with utmost scientific care.

Because the Tom Bombadillio will not be able always meet Frodo and make a trick with the ring replacement.

I want you all to understand why I do write in this specific strange mode.
I just see very dangerous developments and I just try somehow to put
my words into the stability. The closed groups of interests dwell in their
vanity and power, they do not understand that all their shiny power
and knowledge is nothing, that by one flick all that can disappear in a day.
The true wisdom knows that the true power is not in money but in true
knowledge. As greater the wisdom so less money is needed to change things in this world. And not necessarily the true wisdom get appear in the rich houses, because the true wisdom may appear in poor houses.
Thus the Last may become the First.

Only people on brain meta can fully percept such specifically complex things.
And I think that is why we all are here.

I believe we have either entered the CS or will enter it very soon. Its a mystery why our species has the brain power it does, and why logic and knowledge of self have appeared in our species. It sounds like this theory expects a sonic boom when this CS happens, but its more likely to be a gradual evolution is it not?

I think the interconnected fluid internet is a very obvious step towards higher forms of communication, freedom and choice, and this alone should make it evidence for the beginning of the CS.

I can appreciate Enki's worry though, whenever a new form of culture control appears, men in dark clothing attempt to subdue it.

When the number of the same patterns humans have in their brains increases, and when the number of those people will increase (and due to Hollywood and MTV that number increases authomatically), the process can have Avalanche Effect. One spark will spark the entire network activating all the sleeping keys. And truly speaking I feel that we are very near to that process. It will be a sudden, uncontrolled jump. Actually we stand at the verge of that leap.

People will start note things, images will percolate from one person to another, it will be a real alchemical nightmare.

People will start to see "demons" in each other and the days of the Holy Inquisition will return.
I wonder how some people do not understand the consequences! All will start to see elves, gnomes and goblins, the Middle Earth will merge with our world. Does anyone understand the gravity of the consequences?!

We have numbered months, even days when that jump may happen! After Harry Potter movies hell knows what can happen. Children have unrestricted imagination, and those children are many. Hope we will not approach to a situation when the Master will decide to push the Global Reset button of our Universal Computer and roll all like a map?

One ring (pattern, key) to bind them all ...

Earthquakes and tsunami in/on Los Angeles/Hollywood are very realistic btw. As well as the Pigs flying over California in Tornado Helllllixes.

Besides the Gods can return, Titans wake up etc.

I think we should look for the Oracle's help.

Maybe to shield the CS effect on oneself one should put on head those hats like our Jewish Brethren use to plug off from the CS-Matrix? Or the Puritanical hats?

http://www.stopabductions.com/

! Great commercial perspective indeed. Hahahah!

It is Revolution!

As I see the proactive proponents of the Consciousness Singularity trembled!

I think reminding comment about the Holy Inquisition worked.

But if to speak without jokes I have no doubts that the Consciousness Singularity is very valid idea, but I am very strongly convinced that security issues must be resolved at first place.
And a special moral codex should be developed.

If it turns not possible to provide firewall for dangerous data percolation, then any practical activities in that direction can be very dangerous.

Hope Code Buttons you will agree with the security issues?

I am very sorry for such an extravagant and sometimes childish mode of ideas expression and representation but there is no other way to explain such a complex point in short terms from far away country especially at the verge of great changes.

I am sorry if I offended anybody. I had no such intention.

Our rambling isn't likely to cause offence im sure

What are you talking about! You are an awesome poster here at BM. Your posts are very welcome here, especially since we lost such great contributor as Hey Hey was. Who's being offended?

To Whomever It May Concern regarding Enki's posting:
If it's too hot, get out of the kitchen; and if it's too loud, you're too old.

P.S. I'm working on an answer to your previous question. Just give me some time.

Hope so.

Really. We lost Hey Hey? What happened with him?
I thought that CS is holy cow and the comparison with the Babylon Tower may cause some discontent.

I will be patiently waiting.

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17813&hl=

Which is why I am against a Technological Singularity, it could cause something worse than the Matrix could ever hope for.

Consciousness Singularity can be thought of in multiple ways, one thing to note is it would result in a persons consciousness becoming theoretically immortal until the last human dies.