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rhymer
An interesting claim with deep consequences if proven.

Read here....http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070814150630.htm
Enki
On the next step we will admit that clouds are alive and will return to the Druids Epoch.

In the same way one can suppose that all objects structured of atoms can preserve info of any external acoustic vibration and integrate the info, including voice info in some specific way, store that info, code that info, transmit that info etc.

Thus all objects can be considered somehow alive including the planet Earth. Thus we will come to the idea that old people were wiser than we are, because their perception of the reality was more realistic.

Very interesting article, I have quoted it in the theology section too.
http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12...haped-dust.html
(So Galactus can exist laugh.gif http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus )

Viewing hurricanes as living organism is a quite specific approach to the reality perception.
Because if that is so, then we can speak with the wind. Thus science will trigger new era of Magic.

I am waiting the publication of the scientific part in the New Journal of Physics. Let us see what they got.

I am sure that the investigators of the Dust are in tender love with the writings of Philip Pullman.
trojan_libido
QUOTE
He adds that the plasma conditions needed to form these helical structures are common in outer space. However, plasmas can also form under more down to earth conditions such as the point of a lightning strike.


More evidence that the shape of "God" is a dual spiral, to me anyway. Interesting you bring up hurricanes/tornado's, because they also take on this shape. The natural world is full of this self balancing spiralling force: galaxies, solar systems, planetary motions, weather systems, whirlpools, circulatory systems, the distribution of leaves in plant growth.

Its our human categorizing that creates the boundaries between this and that, when in reality the whole thing is a single but multi-faceted process. If we begin to view the Earth as a single system like the extreme of the Gaia Hypothesis, then why stop there? Surely it'd be better to lump the whole Universe into the pot labelled "Life" and have done with it.

As for speaking with the wind; well it'd be nice, but its highly unlikely since most levels/layers of this process seem unaware of the life within the other levels/layers. Lets stick with understanding the other Earth animals before we go off translating the breeze kk? wink.gif
rhymer
What fascinates me most is a question I've been pondering for some time now:- "which comes first, Information for construction of fundamental structures (organised matter), or the Structures of matter themselves"?
Rick
QUOTE(rhymer @ Aug 20, 2007, 02:01 PM) *
"which comes first, Information for construction of fundamental structures (organised matter), or the Structures of matter themselves"?

The information for structures is contained in the matter itself, so it comes first.
Enki
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 20, 2007, 03:41 AM) *

The natural world is full of this self balancing spiralling force: galaxies, solar systems, planetary motions, weather systems, whirlpools, circulatory systems, the distribution of leaves in plant growth.

Its our human categorizing that creates the boundaries between this and that, when in reality the whole thing is a single but multi-faceted process. If we begin to view the Earth as a single system like the extreme of the Gaia Hypothesis, then why stop there? Surely it'd be better to lump the whole Universe into the pot labelled "Life" and have done with it.

As for speaking with the wind; well it'd be nice, but its highly unlikely since most levels/layers of this process seem unaware of the life within the other levels/layers. Lets stick with understanding the other Earth animals before we go off translating the breeze kk? wink.gif


The hurricane case is sited in this article http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12...haped-dust.html ,
I just quote it.
I think science steps onward in accelerated mode and within 1-2 years we will get tremendous results, besides some closed paper will get published after transformation.

QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 20, 2007, 03:41 AM) *

The natural world is full of this self balancing spiralling force: galaxies, solar systems, planetary motions, weather systems, whirlpools, circulatory systems, the distribution of leaves in plant growth.

Its our human categorizing that creates the boundaries between this and that, when in reality the whole thing is a single but multi-faceted process. If we begin to view the Earth as a single system like the extreme of the Gaia Hypothesis, then why stop there? Surely it'd be better to lump the whole Universe into the pot labelled "Life" and have done with it.

As for speaking with the wind; well it'd be nice, but its highly unlikely since most levels/layers of this process seem unaware of the life within the other levels/layers. Lets stick with understanding the other Earth animals before we go off translating the breeze kk? wink.gif


I agree that the reality is a multi-faceted process.

If we consider Gaia Hypothesis seriously then we will not stop at all, we will go further and further. And ... we will come to Brain Meta. wink.gif

"seem unaware" but not 'are unaware', you see smile.gif

Lets study everything. Nullius in Verba!
Enki
Rhymer,

Excellent question indeed.
Enki
QUOTE(Rick @ Aug 20, 2007, 01:11 PM) *

QUOTE(rhymer @ Aug 20, 2007, 02:01 PM) *
"which comes first, Information for construction of fundamental structures (organised matter), or the Structures of matter themselves"?

The information for structures is contained in the matter itself, so it comes first.


How can you be sure Rick that it is so?
I think we cannot disapprove the opposite.
trojan_libido
I guess it depends on how you classify information. In my world view the "sound" from the big bang is still resonating and creating forms. I'd assume then that this sound is creating the helix form and is the "information" carrier.
Enki
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 21, 2007, 12:58 AM) *

I guess it depends on how you classify information. In my world view the "sound" from the big bang is still resonating and creating forms. I'd assume then that this sound is creating the helix form and is the "information" carrier.


Interesting, smart and beautiful definition.
Enki
So first was The Word pronounced on the language of zero perturbations in the utter vacuum by the Lord, which triggered vacuum fluctuation in the total emptiness and the Casmir effect somehow led to the Big Bang! laugh.gif

So the mystery of creation is resolved. wink.gif
trojan_libido
I wouldn't really say resolved Enki, because we still don't know how it was set in motion, or what the motion resides in, or what song is being sung smile.gif

Either way, since energy can't be destroyed, its still amazing that all of the Universe is resonating due to some event billions of years ago! If we knew how to kick off a process like that, our energy needs would be solved.
Enki
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Aug 21, 2007, 06:48 AM) *

I wouldn't really say resolved Enki, because we still don't know how it was set in motion, or what the motion resides in, or what song is being sung smile.gif

Either way, since energy can't be destroyed, its still amazing that all of the Universe is resonating due to some event billions of years ago! If we knew how to kick off a process like that, our energy needs would be solved.


One day we will restore all the words of that song. smile.gif

I do strongly believe that there is a very simple solution of getting energy from 'emptiness'. The same Casimir effect can be very easily used for that purposes. So our energy needs will be definitely solved. Any sandwiched system of thin metallic plates located on nano-scale distances one from each other being exposed under certain frontal acoustic fluctuation of some certain media can exert very serious power from the longitudinal plane due to Casimir effect. The future power generators will be based on that. wink.gif

So we are moving forward.
maximus242
QUOTE(Rick @ Aug 20, 2007, 03:11 PM) *

QUOTE(rhymer @ Aug 20, 2007, 02:01 PM) *
"which comes first, Information for construction of fundamental structures (organised matter), or the Structures of matter themselves"?

The information for structures is contained in the matter itself, so it comes first.


Thats impossible.

How can you create something without having something to first define that which is created. For example, if you want to build a car, you can draw designs for the car. However, you require matter in order to create the designs for the car - otherwise you are theoretically creating a design from nothing.

Therefore, one must have matter. That matter is henceforth changed into such a way that it is used to transfer information for the assimilation and change of more matter. Thus, neither comes first, beginning and end are matters of perception. Rather matter must always exist because nothing is created or destroyed, only changed.

So, what is occuring is the changing of matter into structures via physics.
Rick
It's pretty easy to show that matter contains structure. The simplest structure is number. Hydrogen has one proton, helium has two protons, berylium has three, and so on. So with matter only in existence, we observe number. The numbers contained in atoms define the geometric structures of chemistry.
gordman
I find it hard to believe it...
Enki
Nobody ask to believe. People make research, simulate mathematical models.
Things look like to work. It is a matter of research rather than believe.
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