Has anyone else seen this movie. Any comments!?

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=...481422995115331

Spotted several issues with this (e.g. calendar changes over the centuries mean the 25th Dec is problematic. Also, recent changes to the astrological calendar are not accounted for. Having said that, they aren't taken into account by most astrologers, but then, they aren't the brightest group of people!). However, the video is more believable than the Bible! Certainly engaging rather than boring. Can we expect sequels for Islam, Hinduism etc etc?

I liked it but the idea that Jesus never existed is a speculation based on incomplete information. There are some other important factors that have been left out in the relationship of the Astrological significance of our solar system to the central Sun or the corresponding galaxies and the suns that make up the constellations and life in these systems.

Jesus once said,"It is good that one can recognize God in me but when one worships me as a God outside of themselves then they do not recognize God but some ideal or an imaginary image, and this is idolatry."

The rest is a relative mirror of fear which is being generated and nurtured by the ego. We (humanity) are well entertained, and it is the ego that believes this is the meaning of life to elevate and glorify individuality and all of the senses that exemplify the individual. The duality or separation of greatness in our union with each other is sacrificed by the beliefs we create and we are willing to sacrifice freedom at the cost of that greatness simply because we believe it is in the hands of fate or some other authority outside of ourselves, thus perpetuating individuality and separation.

you are an infinitesimal speck in a vast cosmos, and subscribe to the delusion that the part is equal to the whole. Sounds like someone here is suffering from a God-complex.

I subscribe to the fact that there are no parts that make a whole. The idea that there are parts, is created from imagination.
Suffering and the beliefs that create suffering are created from the whole by mentally manipulating it into imagined realities.

You can close your eyes and daydream any experience you wish but when you come back to yourself whatever is most strong in the impressions of who you are remain.
Consciousness has no qualities that are static other than those that are projected upon it.

If you stand aside of the identification with your minuscule speck-ness, there is an experience of the Self that has no limits or boundaries.

The ones mentioned in the movie who easily manipulate the worlds economy and education know this and have done a great job in helping others believe in their ineffectual self power. They don't believe it tho, and have enjoyed the power that comes from their own infinite potential, twisted as it is.

Cancel your subscription. You were sucked in by the marketing! There are none.

None what?
No connection that exists between one human and another, or humanity and nature, or self empowerment above and beyond the prescribed inevitability that you are destined to die and that is the end of it?

Been there, done that.

This movie consolodated a lot of feelings and thoughts I'd had on my own. Awesome, frightening, enlightening, what else do you want from your entertainment?

Joesus, you need to relinquish your attitude to religion for once. God is really in everyone, in everything, it is a term to collectively name the Universe. The son is the sun, its there in history to see if you open your enlightened eyes and take a look for once. Sun worship was THE worship, nothing changed except the establishments aims and the terminology.

It is even more than that. So why should I relinquish something that you believe in?


I hope you didn't just bend over and accept an idea in a 40 minute excerpt out of a two hour movie that Egyptian philosophy and the entire bible is based solely on Astrology and Sun worship.

More than the Universe? The container of the Universe or maybe the Multiverse? Infinity to the power of Infinity? How can it be more than that when it is the void? Riddle me this...mwahahaha.



I actually did my own research into the history of religion and what possible environmental factors would shape consciousness to believe in duality. Funnily enough it was NIGHT AND DAY! I was also well aware of the presented evidence before I watched this, I was just pleased it had been put together so nicely that the average numpty could understand. I dont think the movie even said the entire bible was based on Astrology and the Sun.

I guess its pointless argueing about the authority of the Bible with someone whose screen name is Joesus and who confuses every arguement with Zen like BS.

What can be put into words yet is beyond all words and experience? (your riddle)


They did suggest that the bible was written about Astrology, the 12 disciples were really the 12 signs of the zodiac and that there wasn't any real evidence that Jesus ever existed even tho they compared his birth to several other names of similar birth.
I think it was you who said Christianity is based on sun worship rather than the "Christ" in Man as was described in Jesus relationship with God as the Son of God. The Bible actually refers to the Christ in all Men which was Jesus' message.
Tho sun worship was a pagan ritual, the Egyptians actually had a deeper understanding of the Suns relationship with the universe. The symbol of the Sun was not only a celestial symbol representing the sun in the sky but God as described in Christian and Eastern Hindu Texts. The Circle with all its rays represents totality and its radiance into the manifest.
They also failed in their comparisons to mention Melchizedek who was born not of a womb or of a mother but who manifested as a fully grown adult and was not crucified but left the same way he came.

So how did you come up with "Sun worship was THE worship, nothing changed except the establishments aims and the terminology."? How does religion trace itself to sun worship if duality in conscious awareness being separation of man with all things is exemplified throughout the bible and in the Eastern Traditions?

Then there is Egyptian Philosophy Which can be traced to the Science of God, levels of celestial life of spirit in manifestation similar to Hindu Sciences....

There is a lot to take in.

Why narrow it all down to Sun worship?


It would be pointless to argue for limitations and ignore the Truth, but its never pointless to live, grow and understand the meaning of Life. Truth can be Zen like, but B.S. is all in the perception of how you create and interpret your own reality. Duality is created in the separation of God in Man. If you cannot See God in me and in all things then it may just be B.S. if that is as far as you are willing to go with it while you hang onto your own images of personal value.

The infinite is beyond all words and measure, if you can only measure the nature of spirituality by its images of superstition then you haven't really seen into the heart of man or understood the nature of religion.

Without imagery there would be no reality, and then understanding is impossible. The point I was making is the original beliefs that began the whole religious line of thought, regardless of what the doctrines state now, is our understanding that the Sun is the bringer of light. Its so obvious its completely overlooked.

you said:

"How does religion trace itself to sun worship if duality in conscious awareness being separation of man with all things is exemplified throughout the bible and in the Eastern Traditions?"

I'm hard pressed to work out what your saying here to be honest. Why should the duality present in our culture, our biology, our science and therefore our minds, be the separation of of man with all things??

Zen statements are designed to stop the mind in its tracks, to make you realise that some things are innapropriate for words. Therefore these statements should be left out of all discussions, especially forum posts.

My understanding of duality in a physical sense is simple. No value can be given to anything without first having a scale. Whether that is a measuring stick or a love/hate perception. Polarity is duality, and although I think this I don't believe the positive or negative is actual polarity/God. Only by accepting both as aspects of the same phenonema can you describe it. Both are necessary.

But evolving conscious and learning that the Sun brings light, warmth and food to the world is a deep intuitive knowledge that has been cradled by the environment. The environment which places the Sun as the creator.

Light has manifested into different vehicles of biological energy, this is as deep as you need to go to understand the real teachings behind religion. We should respect the Sun as the original deity in history, and update religions now consciousness has risen to the point where it doesnt need these sunday-school stories.

I still find little information from your post on your actual beliefs and background Joesus, simply verbal smoke and mirrors.

Keep your eye on the ball - facts.

You mean those iconic statements made by someone other than yourself and your own personal experience in the matter of a subject.
Personally I'd rather dive into a subject heart mind body and soul rather than assume the experience of another as my own.



No it has not been overlooked unless you reduce all thoughts of the universe and its existence to the support of the sun.
Man used to think the sun revolved around the earth and that the earth was the central point and beginning of all life.
I don't think your statement of the obvious is relative to the reality of religions or their beliefs so it may not be so obvious to everyone. It may be relative to your personal beliefs tho.

You would be hard pressed only because you don't understand duality as it is described in scripture?


Well you are the one who calls them Zen statements and believe they are designed to take mind out of the picture.
I would think that Zen Buddhists would expand mental images to include that which cannot be contained in words. This would eliminate any potential to take the unknown and simply reducing it to what someone assumes is a finite understanding of the infinite. Spirituality is the essence of religion, all religions actually. Even the religion of measurements.


Do you consider any value in searching beyond the present values to make discoveries of that which has yet to be included in experiences of self measure?
If you ignore what has not been discovered and exclude that potential from what has been considered real, then you would reduce the infinite to a finite reality? This would limit God to a level of understanding, rather than all potential understanding inclusive of everyones experiences and understandings.
Who or what system of past present or future measurement then would you suggest be The Authority?


What then is the creator of the Sun and the Suns relative to the 400 billion galaxies? Why reduce the knowledge of man to those few examples of speculation that man has never been as intelligent as the best minds of today and the relative acceptance of its totality of assumptions about the universe and mans relationship to it?


Too late, Ive gone beyond this reduction of infinite potential or to reduce the unknown to the imaginings of the known. I see no point to believe all that is measured is all that will be measured and all that will exist.


Reduce the philosophy and science of spirituality today to the beliefs of pagan sun worship? That's hilarious.
But seriously what would we gain by turning all religions toward worshiping the sun? And more importantly how would you structure the actual worship?


My post doesn't delve into my beliefs and background, which is probably why it eludes you.

Even though you subscribe to them:

I wouldn't subscribe to something if it wasn't my own personal experience, that is a fact.

Fair enough.

I don't subscribe to scripture Joesus. I view it as art and insight, then I link it to reality using what I hope is rational thought.



Whether someone says something simple or amazingly profound, its worth nothing if people are unable to grasp the meaning. Your posts are full of these comments, one line brain teasers.


This is taking my post out of context. I was giving an example of how conscious thought has to include this duality to give value to things. Your assuming I'm saying that the unperceivable reality of "God" can be measured as long as we have a long enough stick




Its a fractal system, we know this and we shouldn't make the Sun the central entity in any religious thought. I merely pointed out that the worship of the Sun is actually a more direct and appropriate worship. Of course there are systems above the level of the Sun that are even nearer the concept of deity, but the Sun is the node of the fractal web that has spawned our solar system, therefore it is our link to this process.

What is hilarious is your twisting of what I'm putting across. Granted I'm not the most elegant of posters, but I never attempt to twist anyone elses words but merely understand them.

In answer: I would create a worship that was based on honesty and what we know so far! There is plenty of spirituality in actually understanding the workings on the Universe, plenty food for thought for philosophers. You seem terrified of stripping away the scriptures to reveal their true mystery, hanging on to archaic ideas. Yes there are valid ideas within them, but no I dont subscribe to them. The real information should be laid bare for all to see, then your religions grip begins to falter and people break free.



You've gone beyond any discussion in this thread now, you've jumped the gun and gone back to your ever-so-enlightening statements. Joesus is the enlightened one, /worship.



It eludes me because of the content. I quite aware you've studied a lot of scripture of different religions, and from your screename I assume you allign yourself with catholic/christian religion. However your post does not elude me because of this, it eludes me because its full of misdirection, smoke and mirrors.

Well said. You can't grasp the meaning of anything if you don't understand it. What happens when someone doesn't grasp the meaning of something? They get emotional or ignore it or project a best guess.
Scripture is simply text written by those who have had an experience and one that can be reached by anyone. The main theme of all scripture is the power that lay within the individual beyond the ego's programming of being separate from God and each other. Granted you cannot describe the reality of that in a few sentences but if you don't look into it you won't understand it, and if you aren't interested in it because your interest lay somewhere else you will be ignorant of it.
I don't know anything about brain surgery so I'm ignorant of brain surgery. I know of it but have no interest in it and have not pursued the subject. Thing is I have no superstitions about it and its existence doesn't threaten me.

There exists in the majority of humanity a fear of the unknown and that fear creates illusions and superstitious reactions about certain subjects especially if something threatens their way of thinking and living. One of the most controversial subjects on this planet is God.
Like yourself most people lean on what they understand and know, and try to fit all unknowns into the known box.


My posts address reality and I've responded appropriately to your beliefs that I should give up what I know and join you in what you know.


No I wasn't taking it out of context. You make the same comment many do that reality is what you understand and can touch feel and see. Knowledge as it exists in your mind is limited only by what you focus on as reality. You stated:
The only measuring stick you have is your own experience. what you lean on in knowledge and experience can only be that which is similar to yours or that which sounds similar to yours. You will then discard all others that you do not resonate with or understand.
Obviously there are millions of people with different beliefs and experiences of life than yours and they may contest your beliefs if you confront them with yours.
You meet me here with your best understanding of life and then reject automatically what you refuse to accept as anything that can be measured by your understandings and accepted knowledge of reality.
As you continue to assimilate experiences and knowledge your reality will change. It may be that it only changes a little or it may change alot, that only depends on how rigid you are in your beliefs and how open you are to change in perception and experience.


Ok lets work with that.
In some scripture it says that the Sun spawned the outer planets first. Each time the sun gave birth to another planet it displaced the orbital path of the previous planet bumping it out into an orbit further from the sun. The same scripture goes on to say that the Planet created from the Sun is of the same substance as the Sun and contains all properties that the sun has even tho the appearance of its cooled surface makes it appear to be different. What takes place on the surface as creation continues is in relationship to its position relative to its source.
This description goes on to say that light and heat doesn't travel through thousands of miles of cold space to heat the planets surface but as the surface turns towards the sun heat and energy that is within the planet itself in a sort of stasis arises to reach outward towards its origin.
This relationship of the Sun to its offspring which you have somewhat touched on with the idea of the sun spawning its planets and the bigger picture of the spawning of solar systems within Galaxies has in your own words a deity-like appearance.
Scripture takes this a bit further to describe the relationship of man not at the surface appearance but the level of energy that exists within the Creator having its presence in the Son of God or man itself which is why the bible speaks of both the Son of Man and the Son of God.
There are thousands of texts written about that energy and the unlimited ability of the creator within all man.
Tho people won't always believe that the things described within these texts are possible without proof, they don't always believe they are possible even if they witness it with their own eyes if they don't understand it and they believe beyond a doubt that they cannot do what they see.
This creates conflict within the mind of man and the further away they turn from the source within the further they distance themselves from their own abilities to create limitations and separation from reality.


Who is this we and how much do you really know of the understandings of the workings of the universe?
Have you accessed all there is to know in this planet that exists here and now? Is all knowledge plain to see and out in the open?
In my own experience if you are looking for something specific you will walk right by anything that doesn't fit the idea you wish to entertain.


You've only seen what you want to see in what I have written. Rather than stripping away everything that doesn't fit to leave only what you want to see, open your mind to see further without leaving what you understand out, expanding your mind beyond its present level of reality and perception.


Well there you go, if you make an assumption and go no further you take a position and without opening yourself to another possibility only see so far.
I originally came here as "Joe." I then got into some similar discussions with Dan, a member and moderator of this board who told me I should change my name to Joesus and I obliged him. BTW he accused me of being a Hindu fanatic. He later met an Indian girl whom he married and her father is a Hindu Mystic, you gotta love the irony since he was marrying into a family that represented everything he criticized in me.
I align myself with the Truth that exists in all religions. Christianity only became known as Christianity after it was tied to Jesus the Christed man or "anointed one" and the teachings of Jesus regarding the Christ in Man. The lineage of his Teaching goes back as far as history can provide written information of humanity.

Its seems we've almost reached an informal agreement that the Deity perceived in religions is THE deity, but also only a ghost of the Deity. I definately have the potential to understand a lot more about our position in the cosmos, but equally I believe you could relent a little more and agree with more of the things posted here in this thread.

Jesus is really the "Sun". God is beyond knowledge but his image is present in the spiralling movements of our reality. I'm glad we've had this head to head, and although our opinions differ, our truths lie on the same path.

Beliefs change and I'm not required to agree with you, only find the common point that allows you to have a belief even if it differs from any I might have.


If the sun were to have a point of reference as described in Christianity such as the Father Son and Holy Spirit, the Sun would be closer to the Father. That which is referenced as the originator of the offspring.
Jesus represents all of man, the offspring of God and the manifestation of active intelligent thinking force.
Which is why he is called the Son of God. Because he's is the same as God in the sense that he is built of God or the essence of God, he is said to be God.
When Jesus said, "I and my Father are One" he was making a statement to his conscious awareness of his Father and all that the Father is in the manifest or Union with God.
In the Teachings of Jesus the central message is that Humans can find and consciously join God in all thought feeling and action.

Clear intent creates. There are many types of feelings and as such they are mostly reactive to perceptions of duality. I've seen many try to make things happen by dramatizing their beliefs and creating feelings, (sort of like straining during a bowel movement) but it mostly makes one feel like they are doing more than if they weren't trying to push it out.
Personally I haven't needed to get a feeling to make manifest that which is already available to me, nor do I need to have a feeling to influence Truth or to make it come forth.
I don't detect much feeling in your belief either Dianah but I don't judge someones sincerity or perceptions by their level of feeling and so I don't look to measure feelings to find sincerity or conviction.
That might be the measuring stick Trojan mentions to support a perception of reality; comparing feelings to measure who has the greatest manifestation ability.

the million dollar question: what is your intent and what do you create? And while I'm here: Do you feel desire to create? What are the roles of creativity, creation, intent, and desire in your worldview? Would you take the blue pill or the red?

The Trinity to me is the Father/Sun, The Son/Earth and the Holy Spirit/Light manifesting. Taking the idea as a metaphorical family, The Father is the Sun, the Mother is the Earth and the Holy Spirit is again light manifesting. This is repeated on all levels though as Dianah wrote:



Reality is like a flower constantly in bloom and dying at the same time, like the Hindu creator-destroyer Shiva and his Nataraja Dance. The big bang is still happening.

The Sun is singing, its magnetic fields are resonating low level sound, the planets have their own songs (see Saturns Hexagon and Cymatics). Reality is built from resonating sound waves.

Sound is all there is, and we love to make a noise as we go through life.

My intention is Gods intention, what I create is what God creates, growth and expansion of conscious activity.
The desire to create comes in waves of impressions. As one becomes more in tune with the nature of reality and the desires of the ego, one can makes choices that are inclusive of humanity rather than exclusive to the ego.

As one becomes more consciously aware of their role in humanity one automatically thinks and acts in accord with the upward expansion of conscious evolution in terms of human development and growth of the planet.

The red pill.

like I said, a God-complex!

In some established religious traditions, everyone is god. When someone finally realizes he is god, the others say "what took you so long?"

Conversely, in those traditions, those who do not yet realize they are god are looked upon as somewhat backward or slow.

Rick, BrainMeta are very shrewd in this respect. Hence we and it recognized ourselves as Gods many postings ago.

No, Self realization, nothing complex about it.

what if your Self realization is a delusion, a pleasant lie? You claim identity with God but you don't know this for certain. This is a pleasant belief of yours, but by no means valid. Have you considered, what if your ideas about identity with God are incorrect? What then, would your world come tumbling down because you can't accept that you are not identical to God? Does enlightenment mean the loss of a critical, questioning mind and the acceptance of fantasy notions? If you believe to be identical to God, then so is the lowest life form, the earth slug. Are you comparable to an earth slug? Do you worship the earth slug as identical to God? Clearly we need to differentiate the parts from the whole, and you cannot admit to yourself that you are an infinitesimal speck of dust in an overwhelming Kosmos. The notion of separation from God scares you inside. You fear living your life in vain. Hopefully the self realization was worth it, eh? And not just some pleasant delusion. Reminds me of belief in the afterlife. People cling to these beliefs so vigorously, and the harder they cling and more staunchly they defend their beliefs, the further down the cul-de-sac they go, not admitting to themselves and definitely not to anyone else that the road they're on leads to a dead end.

What if it isn't?


You don't know that I don't know this for certain.
If I tell you I do know for certain you won't believe me anyway.


I don't have any ideas about an identity with God. God doesn't have an identity.
But it sounds like you have plenty of ideas about God and those who have an affection for God.


You would only know if you are enlightened what it means to be enlightened. Everything else is subject to projection from an awareness of not being enlightened.
Do you believe in enlightenment?


You could compare me to an earth slug, you could compare me to you (which is most likely more accurate at the moment).


It seemed clear to those in the past that the universe circled the earth until they became enlightened to the reality of things. When one becomes aware of themselves above and beyond the outward appearances of the body then one finds themselves in all things.
"Split a piece of wood and I am there! Lift a stone and you will find me" ...-Gospel of Thomas


This fear you resonate with is usually what prompts people to attack religion because they do not want to entertain the idea that living a life of compromise,( doing what they think they should do rather that what the really want to do) will lead to an empty life. Generally speaking there are countless individuals in retirement homes that wish they followed their heart rather than the sense of duty and pressure from the world and its judgments that push people away from their intuitive sense of reality and the dreams they have.


People cling to beliefs of all kinds. In fact they cling to the beliefs they have about their own experiences because they don't want to believe that someone could have a different experience than their own.

I don't follow beliefs nor do I allow my own experiences to define who I am or what God is. But the experiences I have had do not influence the Truth, only the surface ideas I may project on top of the truth as relative truths or truths that change with belief.

I tend to believe in an animistic view of the world, where everything has the essence of life within. This is the closest approximation of my beliefs I can find, although all religions have valid ideas within them.

In some ways I'm actually on Joesus' side, but I dont like to confuse an already complex discussion with difficult to read comments.

The real mystery is how consciousness has came into being from the process which includes galaxy formations, plate tectonics and biological bodies.

I am a bit of a pagan really I like to know where the big lumps of stuff (planets, suns, earth etc) are at. The knowledge that I get from that is an understanding of where i am at. The stories of how they got there never seem to change but the words used differ from person to person, I try to listen to the stuff that doesn't talk much as it seems to speak with a quiet clarity.

I'm sure if this jesus et alii fella were alive he would probably turn in his graves at the religious squabbling and funny hats.

Consciousness is not a result of the physical, it is the other way around. Consciousness always has existed and always will exist. If you believe the essence of life is within then you have a head start on finding it and experiencing it. That is the part of life that is immortal and has a direct affect on the creation of the physical and its mortality.

The after life is also the before life, and is more of an absolute life.

Thats just semantics. I know about the idea that all that exists in reality is pure consciousness, creating form etc. (Gods consciousness or similar). But really, your human consciousness is not the same as the ever present void your talking about, so therefore I believe my statement is valid. I'll rephrase:

The real mystery is how human consciousness has came into being from the process which includes galaxy formations, plate tectonics and biological bodies.

A biological being that is created from the ever present void, being built from millions of years of harmonic resonance with the Universe, then pondering its own existence and its creator is the biggest recursive process I've ever witnessed. To deny the recursion within our lives is just silly.

An example:
Man has power to bring his mind into subjection to the principle of mathematics but he does not have the will to make the principle act. The principle acts of itself and is a single center of control within its sphere. Man may bring his will up to the point of the activity of the principle but from then on the principle is the motivating force and through this subjection of his will--to be more accurate--he finds the secret of his mathematical power.
The principal of the human will is that it is to be brought into subjectivity to some higher authority and thus man becomes the embodiment of it and is possessed of the power of this higher authority.
Man's weakness is brought about through making himself subject to that which in reality has no power (False beliefs in separation from the principal) and this should be proof to him of the immense power which is possible to him. He must now learn to apply this principle of his own will and recognize power as existing only in the one principle.

The relationship of the un-manifest with the manifest is something that has always been. Same as human consciousness in relationship to the sense orientation of the physical body is a natural function. Human consciousness didn't grow or develop out of the cosmos because of a random act or happening. It's closer to the idea that it was intentionally created.

If you set a mathematical fractal pattern away to do its thing for 1 million years, is the final pattern a product of the fractals intention? I dont think it is. However I also don't think the outcome is a random event. This is kind of like the free will arguement, one that will never be solved. I see truth in both sides.

To be honest though, the religious ideas in the movie are actually one of the movies strongest points. Whether all facts are relevant or even accurate, the doctrine of religion is stripped bare and the origin is plain to see.

The 9/11 part is a better material to discuss. I find it strange no ones brought this up yet.

I was working for my first IT company when I heard the first plane had hit. I thought it was possibly an accident although I could not get near a TV to see it for myself. When I heard the second plane hit... well, its difficult to put into words what I felt. I knew the USA would go to war. I had doubts about the attack being put down to "terrorism". I was pretty sure there was some agenda being delivered, and this was in the few minutes after the second plane hit, not after I'd read any conspiracy theories about it.

The amount of media coverage world wide was astounding, and since then a huge proportion of politics has been leveraging the attacks to describe the threat we're all under. I personally thought the attack was down to the countries with oil retaliating because of western occupation of their lands. Saddam setting fire to all the oil wells hasn't been forgotten already has it?

This was posted on a world of warcraft forum by a guild friend:

"i live at Cyprus half of the island is been held by Turkey after they invaded the island at 1974
that was one more conspiracy its a big story behind it (divide and conquer been one,US bases another,UK bases another and that actually happend 2 big part of land are held by UK for bases(acting as a ''piece keepers'') but all they want(with the help of US is to monitor the middle east by the huge radars and antennas that have settled here)

i belive this is a small part of the big picture that this movie was. not to mention that Turkey acted based on an act that was signed by CYprus Greece UK and Turkey that the 3 countries were ''piece keepers'' of the island and they could act freely if they thought something was wrong on the island !!!(the stupides ever deal signed by a Nation leader) so some people from greece(the other ''piece keeper'')(helped by the US) organized a putsch on the goverment and Turkey invaded the island to ''protect'' the turkish-cypriot people that they were living on the island atm. and by protecting they took hold of the 33% of the island and still keep it and settle an army there.

so im having(living) a personal experience on the conspiracy-war-money-control-fear-terror subject which is more that enough eye opener.(i have to say that Cyprus has a major strategic place on the map since is in the middle of 3 continents europe-asia-africa which is the main reason for all these that are happening here, but we are lucky NOT to have oils...u know what could happened if we had oils...)
there's more to this story but ill need many pages to tell it all. "

His english isn't great, but obviously the issue is closer to home than to us in our "safe" western lives.

If you take away your illusions of time then any final solution exists as soon as you pose the problem. The idea is that you can't imagine it without first finding where it is. The time it takes you to come into accord with the reality of the answer is the time you spend in your own domain trying to control something you have no real mastery of. The only way you can reach the solution is to surrender your own inadequacy to the point of supremacy which is the answer within the question. If you want to put it into your own terms of fractals you would be facing away from the source seeking to find where you came trying to imagine what that source is. In seeking the answer you move further outward comparing those other images that are away from the source rather than returning to where it all begins to find the common point of reference within the potential that all exists.


The movies strongest point of religion is that there are truths and there are lies and unless you know the supreme Truth any truth is going to be relative to the beliefs you entertain as truth.
When they discussed the dumbing up of humanity through the programmed negligence in the educational system it points to the mindless approach to the acceptance of the popular current authority for the support of all truth. If humans cannot discern illusions from Truth then they can easily be misled.
The idea that religion altogether is wrong or that Jesus never existed is not being offered as truth with any proof but as another Idea to stimulate one to find Truth rather than assuming truth by majority.
One would actually have to find a way to prove to themselves what is real rather than taking someones word for it without having their own experience.
In that respect what you seem to believe is plain to see is your interpretation of reality. You now seem to believe everyone can or should be able to see it as you do or will.
That is hardly the reality. The diversity of God will always produce a diverse way to see and worship because there will never be one way to see and understand God. The failure of the movie to come to this conclusion eventually leads to the statement at the end of the movie about the potential within Humans to rise above being a victim because of the power within ones own Self. This is the basis of all True religion and one can find that if they look in all of the major established religions in the world.

supreme Truth? What's that?? Or rather, what are you peddling, and how much moolah does it cost?

As the late Terrence McKenna said, we humans go through life like we're driving a car, using the rear view mirror. This is pretty much what we do instinctively, looking at past events and making our minds up about the course we'll take.



I don't really need an opinion on whether a real person named Jesus existed. I don't even need to say religions are wrong, quite the opposite. The questions about our reality and the process we like to make into deities were there long before Jesus. I believe religion has been diluted over time - a fairly straight forward statement. I also feel there can be no other conclusion than the sun, moon and stars were the source of all ancient religion. Doesnt that mean that all future beliefs were bound to be based on this?

I still feel like im stuck in a verbal whirlpool when you reply Joesus...

I understand why you would see it that way, however many atheists are good living people.
Doing what you should is not a mind-set reserved for the religious. What is strange is that
a few (note: a few) religious are predominantly motivated by "you must not or else"
which is disturbing for naturally well intended people.

Richard Dawkins goes into this quite a bit Culture. In the God Delusion he gives the argument that morality has nothing to do with religion and its laws. I dont actually like Dawkins, he has some strong arguments for things like memes, but he tears down religious institutes and leaves a hole. He fails to put anything in this hole despite him seeing a repeating pattern in memes and DNA and then he goes on to describe the path of culture as the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times).

Contradictory? I think so.

This is fear and habit not necessarily natural to the being of humanity.


I had a feeling once.


Only if you believe this is the absolute truth.
But your belief of sun worship is based on the twisting of the relationship of all things with the absolute, into iconic representations of the absolute and its offspring. It is one idea of many not the original idea or greatest idea as you suppose.


I said something to that effect pointing to the idea that religion is not strictly about God but about human relationship with absolute belief. Like your whittling down all ideas to the supreme idea of sun worship. You seem to want to surrender all latent aspects of religion to this supreme source. That is a religious motive for you current thought and action.


It doesn't cost anything and it is what is left after you strip away all transitory beliefs.

/yawn. Sorry Joesus, but I just like to believe in whats there, not what might have been or you would like to be. Circles everywhere i tell ye!

C'est la vie

Sounds kinda boring. Life is transitory and is in continuous flux. That's part of what makes it exciting. Your golden eternal sounds like incredible monotony. Just thinking about it makes me wanna.. *yawn*

That's what its like for the ego. If you know nothing else then trying to imagine something else only strains the limited mind.

In the Upanishads, those ancient texts of Unity, there is an interesting passage describing the bliss of full human realization:
This is the inquiry concerning bliss.
Let there be a youth, a good youth, well read, prompt in action, steady in mind and strong in body. Let this whole earth be full of wealth for him. That is one human bliss.
That which is a hundred times the human bliss, that is one bliss of the human angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the human angels, that is one bliss of the divine angels, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

That which is a hundred times the bliss of the divine angels, that is one bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, that is one bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, that is one bliss of the gods by work, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods by work, that is one bliss of the gods, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods, that is one bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, that is one bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, that is one bliss of God the Creator, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of God the Creator, that is one bliss of God the Father, and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

Despite the poetic power of the Upanishads, why you spouting out scripture in a discussion?

Why do you ask?

A bit like homeopathy then. And we all know what rubbish that is.

Actually not so much dilution, but adulteration.