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Joesus
QUOTE(Technologist @ May 12, 2007, 05:53 AM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ May 10, 2007, 12:21 PM) *

That would be to surrender to something greater than the individual self.
Being a conduit for Universal Mind.


I suppose, Joesus, that some of our differences are semantical, as I have no problem accepting the fact that I am a finite being existing within an infinite reality, nor do I have any issues with the idea that my being may possibly serve some kind of functional purpose in the grander scheme of things.

One of the reasons that I enjoy visiting a venue such as brainmeta is that the participants here aren’t afraid to let things hang out a little bit. There’s nothing wrong with engaging in speculation so long as one recognizes the activity as such.


Reminds me of the Christians belief in the second coming. The speculative reasoning of what the future is going to look like during the event may preclude the ability to recognise the event when it actually happens.
Actually the first time Jesus came the people figured he was going to wipe out the very people that nailed him to a cross.

In most intellectual circles everything is subject to scientific reasoning even if the reasoning is inadequate to measure the unknown with the known.

I'd say that what you see as our differences is your approach to life and your interpretation of everyone elses approach.
Without a clear experience of Union the Universe is pieced together by different parts that make up a whole.
Actually the universe holds the differences within itself and does not change if they are removed or added.

How another recognises activity is not necessarily important. More often than not it is a distraction to ones own ability to be aware.
Technologist
Being aware that there is a relative level of speculativeness to one's conceptualization isn't necessarily important? I think not. That would open the flood gates for all sorts of irrationalism.

QUOTE
Actually the universe holds the differences within itself and does not change if they are removed or added.


Adding or removing something from reality, which we can conceive of as "all that is logically possible", is an invalid proposition.
Joesus
QUOTE
Being aware that there is a relative level of speculativeness to one's conceptualization isn't necessarily important? I think not. That would open the flood gates for all sorts of irrationalism.

Anything irrational or not of the expected is frightening to the "rational" need to control the unexpected or unknown.

QUOTE
Adding or removing something from reality, which we can conceive of as "all that is logically possible", is an invalid proposition.

Invalid or beyond relative levels of comprehension?
Are you really of the mind that there is nothing beyond current logic that can be known, or that logic is fixed/universal to belief and comprehension?
Rick
QUOTE(code buttons @ May 11, 2007, 07:58 AM) *
Why would you think it (consciousness) is a good thing, Rick?

I can only speak for myself, but I recognize that there is likely something of the universal in me or my experiences. Life without consciousness would be the same as being in a coma, and wouldn't be much like the life I know. If I were a zombie robot I would have no fun that I would know of, so that would be unsatisfactory to me.

I feel a need to know things, and knowing requires consciousness. Because I need to know, I need to be conscious. It's basically a humanist view. I like it because it's what I want, or maybe I want it because it's what I like. Does that mean I have no free will because I always desire what I want? No. As with some Presidents, I get to be a decider. I could choose not to be.

While I'm at it, let me just throw in here that love makes the world go 'round, as has been said many times before. Love really is the answer, and without consciousness, there would be no love.
Rick
QUOTE(Technologist @ May 11, 2007, 11:12 PM) *
Are we conceiving of consciousness as something other than information processesing? Rick, is a philosophical zombie something that your intuitions tell you is logically possible?

I don't think that information processing is consiousness. Consciousness in its pure form is without information content. However, consciousness is usually bound up in structure (information).

Most of the mental processing done by the brain is unconscious, so it's clear that information processing is not equivalent to consciousness. Consciousness is involved in only the tip of the mental iceberg.

Nature is not wasteful, so consciousness must have a necessary role in mental activity. We know that nothing enters memory without first being conscious (generally, there may be some exceptions). We also know that unconscious performance is degraded compared to focused awareness on a task. For example, people can drive while talking on a cell phone, but they don't do it very well.

Therefore, the philosopher's zombie is not logically possible. There is a functional need for there to be something that it is like to be.
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