I wasnt sure where to post this and i hope i have found the correct section. I want to know if anyone knows anything about brain scans taht can hellp me out with some questions?

I heard that you can see what damage has been done from a scan and also a dyagnostic way of seeing mental illnesses. I really want to have a scan done so I can see how many brain cells i have left and hopefuly get a real diagnosis on my mental health as I am not happy with the ideas that are being suggested to me from phychiatric assessment and i dont want to take any anti depressents anymore as I cant stand the way they desensitive your emotions and numb your ability to express them. I want to see what I actally have been diagnosed with and look at other pills that I can take that will help and start to get this now 18 yr mystery under control.

Are there any clever people on here that know lots about mental health processes and my personal rights to ask for this kind of test. I thi nk I have put it off for long enough and if i dont get some sense from somwhere about how I can do this and I think I really will start going mad as my life is being stopped so much and i want to get sorted out and start to be able to get out of bed and get on with life

I didn't think any sort of current brain scan could reveal mental illness. I suppose it may give signs corresponding with certain illnesses, but I wasn't aware that it could give you any concrete evidence. And the amount of brain cells you have does not necessarily have an effect on your thought process/mental illness. As they say: quality, not quantity.

And don't worry, you're not the only person taking antidepressents who wishes they weren't. I had a friend once who suffered from depression, but she refused to take antidepressents because that's "not how [she] was born."

Well, in the end, she became so depressed that almost all aspects of her life suffered. She was very miserable. As we know, misery likes company. Because she made everyone else feel miserable as well, she grew very distant from most of her friends and family. That, in turn, just caused her to become more depressed. It's a vicious cycle.

Want my advice? See another doctor! Don't search the internet until you find the evidence you seek. You'll just end up with a self-confirmation bias. Even (smart) doctors don't try to diagnose themselves.

I'll say that again, because I really believe...see another doctor. You are, after all, entitled to a second opinion.

But don't give up on meds just because they make you feel different.

5-hydroxytryptophan supplements look promising but are probably only useful if low on serotonin (this should be able to be found out through a blood test somewhere). Be sure to do this in concert with your doctor, there is a risk of serotonin syndrome if combined with anti-depressants.

Also look at fish oil...




An interesting note on brain scans, I went to a seminar where they talked about inserting long needle electrodes deep in certain areas of the brain to turn one area 'off' and the other area 'on' for treatment of depression based on the corresponding abnormalities found in imaging studies.

Really? Interesting. Did it work?

[quote name='Casey' date='Jan 05, 2007, 05:08 AM' post='74887']
[quote name='Orbz' post='74884' date='Jan 04, 2007, 08:37 PM']
An interesting note on brain scans, I went to a seminar where they talked about inserting long needle electrodes deep in certain areas of the brain to turn one area 'off' and the other area 'on' for treatment of depression based on the corresponding abnormalities found in imaging studies.
[/quote]

I dont know that i like the idea of having things stuck into my brain to have it fixed. I heard about having a hole put through your skull i think it was at the front as it was supposed to have a difference, sorry i cant remember the details,

I have been to the health shop looking at some pills called 5-HT (excuse me if i spelt that wrong) it is supposed to be a seratonin carrier and are supposed to do what anti Ds. It is hard to try and weigh up what I could take to try and balance my brain out especially as there isnt enough known about any of the herbal alternative to give it a license and the the info but also I find it hard to know what the many different named remedies are used for treating as it isnt allowed to place much information on the bottles. I have been on so many anti Ds and combinations of anti psychotics and valium sleepers etc and I am so worried about todays phychiatrists placing me into the wrong catagory because of thier lack of knowledge about the subject ( as in making an effort to listen and learn about what i am going through with symptoms etc) not thier knowledge on the subject of mental health. In my experience the phyciatrists whom I have been given an appointment with have not really seemed interested in listening to how im feeling and symptons but how quick they can get onto the next appointment. I am not stating that any one in this line of work isnt interested in thier job, maybe its more the fact they are so busy and underpaid and under such pressure they cannot do the listening and give the amount of time they would personally like to to be able to make a diagnosis. So with the drugs prescribed from the doctor and then the option of herbal supplements and no one knowing the reaction one can have if took with the other I am very confused how to go about understanding what to take or if i have even been given the right diagnoses. It is true that all mental health needs to be reassessed on a regular basis but after so many years being passed from one pill to another there doesnt seem to be much of a success in cure or being able to be normal as i have had that many different normalitys from being on so many different prescriptions I find it hard to know whats what myself anymore. Currently I am not taking any medication as I feel if you shook me I would make a rattling sound from the amount of meds I have eaten and reading all i have about the lack of understanding what these different drugs have on the brain or even about the fact we are still trying to find out how the brain actually works entirely I am feeling really unsure what the next stage forward should be. I asked the herbal advisor is it ok to take thier remedies with the ones a doctor prescribed and was told its hard to say what the effect would be through lack of reserarch into it and i should ask the doctor, I asked the doctor and was told it wasnt thier field and couldnt comment and so to ask the pharmacist, the pharmacist was suprised she was expected to be the answer to the question and didnt know what to suggest so really i need to try them together and see if any side effects happen, i am not sure i would be able to assess that if i was the experimentee, help!

Food for thought:
I did wonder if the meds from the doctor are just meds that have the ability to switch off your ability to show emotion to things and feel numb that it may be a way of switching you off from the realisation of what is going on around us in todays world and the effect it is having on me as a human being and instead of curing me it just stops me realising there is a problem. Just because a med stopped my feeling fed up and the symptons of a certain catagorised mental condition does it mean they found the cure for that condition. Or is the way i am feeling my reaction to my enviroment and current society conditions making me feel this way? and so the cure is a change in society and the way the world is. Someone said to me your reality is what you place around you and a reflection of yourself, well I do feel happy with the people I am surrounded with and I stay away from people who i see as bad and who make a negative impact on society but i cant switch off seeing the evil of peoples ways, the destuction of the planet, etc etc. With meds i can switch off from reacting to that and so simply act as if it is something of no concern and that i dont need to react on or attempt to change.

I know I am expressing how I am seeing things from my point of view and some on here may say its my illusion on whats going on as in my mental illness that is giving me this view but I have a regular mental health worker/occupational therapist who i asked the above question about isnt the worlds current events and attitude having a profound effect on peoples mental health and causing depression problems etc? She told me that there is a certain high rise over the last few years in mental health problems, to the point that they havent got the facility to deal with the amount of people needing appointments and care. And unfortunately yes off the record the effect it is having on people is creating a mental illness in us all.

So am I insane? Is society the one thats gone insane? Or maybe both.

A bit similar to the matrix, what pill do i take?

I really would be interested in other peoples views on the ideas i have expressed above and the experiences i have been through being in contact with various experts of these fields.

Solartrinity

I am sorry I am not very good at my use of english vocabulary and how i put things but i hope you will get a idea of what i am trying to say.

Hi Solartrinity,

Your english is totally adequate to get your message across!

If you are insane then I am too!
You are far too coherent to be going mad, but such a fear is one of the symptoms of depression. I had the same fear until my understanding improved.

You may be suffering fom some sort of depression (I take daily medication).
Have a read at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_depression

This is just one of many websites found by searching on google. It explains depression, its symptoms, all the drug types available and other techniques to try and return to normal brain function.

It took me several years trying different medications before I found one that made my life seem worth living again, and that did not have intolerable side-effects.
There are now seven different modes of working of antidepressant drugs plus the category of 'others' where anti-depression capability can be a side-effect of the drug).
They are
Tricyclic
Tetracyclic
MAOI
SSRI
NRI
SNRI
NASSA
'others'.
All are described at wikipedia.

Although I can't find the paper I was talking about this one is similar...



Small studies, probably because of the invasiveness of the procedure and the selected sample population for use in these trials.

Ah, the age old question: Do I take medication or not?

Well, there's a few common reasons people choose not to take their meds.

Have you ever heard of Depressive Realism? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depressive_realism)
It's not uncommon for the pain of depression (and Bipolar Disorder) to bring about a more realistic interpretation of the world. A lot of peole choose to endure the pain of depression simply for this "side effect". But of course, you don't have to be depressed to be realistic. You simply have to be aware of your surroundings. Anyway, it sounds like this might be something that interests you.

Plus, a lot of bipolar individuals choose to stop taking their medications because they like the manic high so much. A lot of them end up miserable (or in financial ruin) when the depression kicks in though.

Again, I'm no doctor, but I've seen a lot of people's lives ruined due to depression and bipolar disorder.

If I had to make that decision, I'd choose the meds. I've personally been through depression, and it was miserable.

What do you guys think? I'm kind curious now. If you were depressed, would you take meds? Why or why not.

Hmmm...I wonder how long those electro-stimulating effects last. I wonder if they'd need a sort of "brain pacemaker" to provide permanent effects.

Guess I don't know enough about the subject.

If I was depressed the last thing I would try would be meds. Only because in my working model of the body and 'mind', there has to be something wrong somewhere and meds only cover it and don't seek out the root cause. Of course if the depression was bad enough that I couldn't address it at the other levels, then I'd take the meds so that I could address it.

Interesting point about using depression to gain a more realistic perspective of the world. But it seems value laden, how do you know if an optimistic view isn't more realistic?

"Normal" people often feel they have control over uncontrollable things.

Ok, here's a scenario:
I have $100 and a pair of dice. Just for kicks, I will roll the dice. If the roll adds up to 7 I will give you the $100. However, you are free to roll for the $100 instead if you wish. Do you roll or let me? Why?

Most people would rather roll themselves because, deep down, they feel their odds are a little better if they roll the dice. In reality, both people have equal chances of rolling a 7.

It's definitely not a scientific experiment, but it should illustrate the principal. (There have been documented psych studies on this phenomena.) Depressed and highly intelligent individuals are less likely to fall prey to this line of thinking.

The an optimist's view isn't always "correct" because it makes the individual prone to mistakes in logic. Again, keep in mind that we're talking about people of average intelligence. But that's not to say there is anything wrong with an optimistic view. A lot of psychologists regard that "flaw" as a defense mechanism. (That's just theory though.)

I agree, calling an optimistic view delusional is value laden. I'm merely saying these thoughts/errors coincide with optimistic views.


Do you really believe that? Too many people believe the bran (mind) is inherently perfect. I will say one thing with reasonable certainty: each person's brain is not perfect. I mean, evolution is good, but not that good.

That statement is value laden. I suppose I don't believe in mind/body dualism. I believe thoughts are determined by electrochemical impulses.

So, if your brain has a chemical imbalance, are you sure you can just work it out? If you had a bullet wound, could you just talk it into healing? Can you talk Alzheimer's into going away?

Anyone else out there reading this too? I like hearing all of your opinions.

I'm sure there's probably stacks of stuff on the errors attributed to pessimists.



I do for the most part. A lot happens to us through life which can upset our underlying physiology and then consequently upset brain function. While we may have underlying genetic reasons why things may happen, I feel that it is probably rare that these problems can't be at least partially circumvented through better living and an understanding of what it is we either need to do or avoid. Do I need more exercise cause I'm big boned? Do I need to eat food with more iron and protein because I'm feeling tired and lethargic...

For example with depression- If we deplete precursors for certain neurotransmitters, we know that can have profound effects on people, including making them feel depressed.

I don't think talking is necessarily the best option for depression, unless that talking is changing underlying chemistry and circuitry. Which we can just about say for sure that it does, but is probably not the most efficient means of doing so.

You couldn't talk a bullet wound into healing but you could probably make it heal faster. There's research on the effects of beneficial relationships and the speed of healing.
You could probably prevent, to a degree, some aspects of alzheimers by talking and also inhibit the progressive nature. But again this might not be the most efficient way of treating it but it certainly doesn't hurt and most likely aids in whatever treatment the person is getting. Think of the crossword research.


A rejection of mind/body dualism (ie mind/body as the same thing) is in favour of being able to talk people into healing. Even more so than mind/body dualism. If thoughts are electrochemical impulses then those impulses affect other areas of the brain not related to just conscious thought. Take emotion for example, you can think yourself into being angry fairly easily with corresponding changes in body physiology.