Full Version: Homosexuality
Interesting article about the animals indeed Hey Hey.
I also liked her statement about Darwin's Theory: “The theory is becoming Ptolemaic.”
What is this
You must make more posts before being allowed to post URL's ?
It comes when I post links. Appeared just today.
Previously there were no problems with posting URLs?
Bugs again?
You must make more posts before being allowed to post URL's ?
It comes when I post links. Appeared just today.
Previously there were no problems with posting URLs?
Bugs again?
QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 05, 2007, 08:31 AM) 
What is this
You must make more posts before being allowed to post URL's ?
It comes when I post links. Appeared just today.
Previously there were no problems with posting URLs?
Bugs again?
Yep! sounds like it. Shawn installed that safety measure to keep spammers off the board. The way it works is, you're not alowed to posts URLs unless you have put up at least ten posts prior. So, itt shouldn't affect you. So, it sounds like a bug. Or you were not properly logged-in.
QUOTE(code buttons @ Jan 05, 2007, 08:48 AM)
QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 05, 2007, 08:31 AM)
What is this
You must make more posts before being allowed to post URL's ?
It comes when I post links. Appeared just today.
Previously there were no problems with posting URLs?
Bugs again?
Yep! sounds like it. Shawn installed that safety measure to keep spammers off the board. The way it works is, you're not alowed to posts URLs unless you have put up at least ten posts prior. So, itt shouldn't affect you. So, it sounds like a bug. Or you were not properly logged-in.
Really? Are you sure?
Test
www.cnn.com
www.cnn.com
Now it works. Strange.
Now again You must make more posts before being allowed to post URL's
It looks like that somebody is playing with Cheshire cat.
Если это еще раз повторится, то вам будет очень, очень плохо.
It looks like that somebody is playing with Cheshire cat.
Если это еще раз повторится, то вам будет очень, очень плохо.
The thing is... there's plenty of biological evidence for homosexuality. The problem is that it's correlational. The sexual dimorphic nucleus is smaller in homosexual males, differences in the hypothalamus, SCN, and some other structures I can't think of off the top of my head.
Also, they have replicated these brain abnormalities in male and female animal models (primarily rats). Given extra testosterone they act have masculine characteristics and try to mate with other male rats. Give estrogen the same in reverse with females. There's also prenatal evidence. Prenatal stress can alter sexual development (again, done in rats). The mothers were confined in tight Plexiglas tubes for ~2 hrs. each day with bright lights. Very stressful for rat mothers. Anyways, the female pups were fine, but the male rats arched their back as female rats normally do for mating. The reasoning: stress releases endorphins which antagonize the effects of testosterone on the hypothalamus. Stress also causes elvated levels of corticosterone which decreases testosterone release. So the male pups are affected both anatomically in the brain and behaviorally.
Also, how do you explain the androgen insensitivity debate? Born XY but appear as a woman. What would you say about their sexual prefrence? Homosexual because genetically XY or homosexual because they appear and act like women and are attracted to other women? What about intersexuals?
Also, they have replicated these brain abnormalities in male and female animal models (primarily rats). Given extra testosterone they act have masculine characteristics and try to mate with other male rats. Give estrogen the same in reverse with females. There's also prenatal evidence. Prenatal stress can alter sexual development (again, done in rats). The mothers were confined in tight Plexiglas tubes for ~2 hrs. each day with bright lights. Very stressful for rat mothers. Anyways, the female pups were fine, but the male rats arched their back as female rats normally do for mating. The reasoning: stress releases endorphins which antagonize the effects of testosterone on the hypothalamus. Stress also causes elvated levels of corticosterone which decreases testosterone release. So the male pups are affected both anatomically in the brain and behaviorally.
Also, how do you explain the androgen insensitivity debate? Born XY but appear as a woman. What would you say about their sexual prefrence? Homosexual because genetically XY or homosexual because they appear and act like women and are attracted to other women? What about intersexuals?
QUOTE(Technologist @ Dec 21, 2006, 11:42 PM)
How does one reconcile the existence of homosexual tendencies with a naturalistic framework?
After I hear from a few of this forum's participants I will provide my perspective - along with why I think this issue reveals something of great significance.
quid pro quo B)
We can see that homosexual is a natural phenomenon during the time of maturity development (=fight, hunt, playmate, nesting behavior.. various from expression from species to species) Questioning them and comparing them create more conflict just treat them its like a helicon once in a season or time ..
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 22, 2006, 01:45 AM)
QUOTE(code buttons @ Dec 21, 2006, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 10:55 AM)
contest this claim. Can you produce any proof that Newton or Da Vinci were homosexual?
It's all over the literature. Just google it.
I did and I couldn't pull anything up over Newton or Da Vinci being homosexual. You may be thinking of John Nash. From my understanding and reading of biographies, Newton was a sexually-inhibited, socially inept, psychopath; Principia Mathematica and Opticks notwithstanding.
Writing and thinking is self-issue. Homo is bipolar issue one who all are self centered they are all homos? .. Mr. Ass Hole 'lucid_dream'
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 22, 2006, 05:38 AM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 05:04 PM)
and humans are just like fruit flies?
Ah Lucid, that is such a good question and thinking about it, yeah I suppose humans are just like fruit flies.
There is so little substance in this world, everything is illusion, so at least create the illusion that you want right?
In the eyes of “nature ultimo” what difference in human and fruit fly ..?
QUOTE(Dinesh @ Feb 10, 2007, 12:11 PM)
Writing and thinking is self-issue. Homo is bipolar issue one who all are self centered they are all homos? .. Mr. Ass Hole 'lucid_dream'
That's terribly rude...name calling will not change our opinions. However, a coherent post would serve you quite well.
c'mon
its genetic.
what a ridiculous "debate" haha
its genetic.
what a ridiculous "debate" haha
QUOTE(bennett @ Dec 23, 2006, 11:49 AM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 11:39 AM)
My own view is that homosexual tendencies serve no function and are irrelevant within the bigger picture. Homosexuals often appear overly-preoccupied with their own sexual and identity issues, are often narcissistic hedonists, and rarely contribute anything of significance to society.
What do you mean by "naturalistic framework"? Everything is in Nature, so technically speaking, everything is naturalistic.
I just came upon this forum after searching the net and just couldn't resist...I've have read this entire thread and find it quite interesting as to the many theories. I am not a scientist, but I am a fascinated by the mind which is how I came upon this website.
What is interesting is none of you are, or at least have admitted that you are homosexual so I figured it was time that someone did. I am a homosexual and while I am totally open to the many theories as to "why" we homos exist in the way that we do, my own philosophy says "who cares why?". If I try to argue my "right" to be homosexual with the genetic theory or behavioral or a mixture of all or something else - it doesn't matter to me because just as you have all proven - everyone will attach themselves to the theory that best fits them and their beliefs. In fact, I get really sick of hearing homosexuals say "It's genetic" in an attempt to make themselves feel better and prove to everyone that they are "natural" and therefore, should be accepted. By arguing the "why", it makes it important. You can't expect ten people in the same room to be alike in all ways let alone the over 6 billion people on the planet. People are going to be different whether by choice, by genes, by environment, whatever. That is natural, that is nature. It will always be that way
And while the "why" homos are homos, isn't important in my philosophy, just for giggles I will say that I know that homosexuality is sometimes caused by genes, sometimes environmental factors, sometimes choice. We can't put even us homos in one box....although someone has done it again with:
"Homosexuals often appear overly-preoccupied with their own sexual and identity issues, are often narcissistic hedonists, and rarely contribute anything of significance to society."
All I can say is who in heck do you know that is gay? This is truly limited thinking for someone who is part of a forum like this. What t.v. shows do you watch to get this idea? Homosexuals are a very diverse crowd my friend. We are everyone and everywhere including your kids, your parents, your teachers, your doctors, your government, your mechanic - everywhere and everyone.
Just like you can use scientific theories to try and determine what a fruit fly is up to and why, you can use sciencific theories to try and figure out what and why a homosexual is what it is. That is the beauty of theory based on scientific research. That part makes talking about the subject interesting and stimulating. However, this comment you expressed in the above quote has no science to back it up - just pure and blatant ingnorance. I would expect much more from people who sound so smart otherwise. It is not stimulating or creative in the least, it is regurgitated prejudice you learned on t.v., church or some other ignorant person.
And I have to throw in....yet another website/forum I come across where heteros are talking about homos...there is some sort of obsession with us homos..any theory on why that is, why heteros are so interested in why homos are the way they are and why some heteros are so terrified...is it purely beliefs, genes, choice, environmental factors or a mixed bag? I say let's accept the diversity factor as part of nature and get on with something more important, but then again I'm a homo.
Your expresion is nice .. why we bother..
Even though I am not homosexual, I don't really know why everyone cares? I mean, the US (where I live) is openly against gay marriage! What the hell? Aren't we supposed to be a country of equality and differences etc... We are one of the only first-class countries that is openly prejudice against the gay community. I mean, what's that all about?
QUOTE(lcsglvr @ Feb 12, 2007, 07:22 AM)
Even though I am not homosexual, I don't really know why everyone cares? I mean, the US (where I live) is openly against gay marriage! What the hell? Aren't we supposed to be a country of equality and differences etc... We are one of the only first-class countries that is openly prejudice against the gay community. I mean, what's that all about?
Agreed. I'd imagine your view mirrors many of the views on here. (mine included)
Someone (sorry, I don't remember who) polled U.S. citizens to discover the most important qualities they consider when choosing a presidential canidate.
Can you guess the findings?
The canidate's stance on gay marriage was a critical determining factor for most individuals. (It was very near the top)
The canidate's intelligence was much lower on the list. It would seem, that "Americans" are more concerned about a canidate's stance on gay marriage than that individual's intelligence. Quite frankly, I'm not even sure what to say to that...
Religion was only moderatly important.
Also, abortion was rather low on the list. It was much lower than the aforementioned qualites/opinions.
I couldn't care less if someone's homosexual. It's quite funny how basically the whole homosexual vs. marriage debate is stemmed from religious purposes. It's funny how American are more concerned about gay marriage and not intelligence! I mean honestly Americans, religion doesn't run the United States, intelligence does! My goodness, people have their priorities screwed up I'd say.
This is my opinion.
This is my opinion.
Lesbian Koala's rock! In fact lesbians rock, or at least in mens fantasies...
I think its a good idea to talk about the different attitudes to homosexual men and women. Women seem to be extremely tolerant to sexuality, whereas men are mostly intolerant. There are many men replying in this thread that are hypocrites. They lap up lesbian imagery and most men have fantasies of sex with lesbians. Their innate masculinity "curing" them of their deviant actions.
Homophobia is a different beast within each gender - and we've yet to discuss why
I think its a good idea to talk about the different attitudes to homosexual men and women. Women seem to be extremely tolerant to sexuality, whereas men are mostly intolerant. There are many men replying in this thread that are hypocrites. They lap up lesbian imagery and most men have fantasies of sex with lesbians. Their innate masculinity "curing" them of their deviant actions.
Homophobia is a different beast within each gender - and we've yet to discuss why
QUOTE(trojan_libido @ Mar 05, 2007, 04:29 AM)
I think its a good idea to talk about the different attitudes to homosexual men and women. Women seem to be extremely tolerant to sexuality, whereas men are mostly intolerant. [...] Homophobia is a different beast within each gender - and we've yet to discuss why
Sociocultural causes? That'd be my guess. I don't think it's an innate gender trait.
Homosexuality challenges masculinity on many levels. Intolerance may be a defense mechanism for those not secure in their masculinity.
First of all I would like to excuse me for my english, becouse I haven't used it for years :-)
Talking about homosexuality I think the main question is not its nature (biological or psychological) but rather what rights do we have to intolerate it. I don't want to fall in long discussions, but if we are tolerating blond people (it doesn't matter born blond or painted) if we tolerate green eyes (born or with linces) if we tolerate millions types of dressings and colours..why shouldn't we tolerate homosexual people..I just want to congratulate diversity..
be tolerant and others will tolerate you..whoever you are..
Talking about homosexuality I think the main question is not its nature (biological or psychological) but rather what rights do we have to intolerate it. I don't want to fall in long discussions, but if we are tolerating blond people (it doesn't matter born blond or painted) if we tolerate green eyes (born or with linces) if we tolerate millions types of dressings and colours..why shouldn't we tolerate homosexual people..I just want to congratulate diversity..
be tolerant and others will tolerate you..whoever you are..
according to your logic, drJOY, we should also tolerate pedophiles and beastiality.
So I guess we can say that we have a duty to be intolerant of unethical behavior. Is there anything else we should be intolerant of?
Then given a well-defined class of intolerables, can we say that the default approach outside that class should be one of tolerance? I think so.
Then given a well-defined class of intolerables, can we say that the default approach outside that class should be one of tolerance? I think so.
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Mar 12, 2007, 02:35 PM)
according to your logic, drJOY, we should also tolerate pedophiles and beastiality.
Yes, I feel we should tolerate them as well.
We are a product of factors beyond our control.
Do you honestly believe anyone woke up one day and decided to be a pedophile?
Even if a person does "choose" to behave as a pedofile, he/she is still being controlled by factors beyond comprehension and understanding. The choices we voluntarily make each day are, in reality, far from true volition. (Disagree with me if it makes you feel better...being a pawn in the game of life doesn't exactly feel wonderful.)
It is one's actions which should concern us. While we should tolerate a pedofile, we should also take measures to ensure that s/he does not actually harm/molest a child. Intolerance of action seems reasonable because a victim party may be irrevokably harmed.
I assumed Lucid was referring to the behaviors, pedophilia and beastiality, that should not be tolerated. Homosexual behavior in general should be tolerated because it is behavior between consenting adults. Children and animals cannot give properly informed consent, and therefore their exploitation is not to be condoned.
I only read the first few pages of this thread, but wante to reply.
My best friend for 16 years now is a lesbian. She was raised to be a girl...her mom dressed her in dresses and bought her dolls, etc...but she always HATED those clothing and girl toys. She was expected to marry a man and have kids, but instead she lives the life of a lesbian. It is not her whole being, she is not pre-occupied with sex, in fact its the OPPOSITE...lol She has relationships at times, and other times she dosent.
I am very partial to someone being homosexual. It dosent bother me at all. As long as they are happy who am I to judge?
My best friend for 16 years now is a lesbian. She was raised to be a girl...her mom dressed her in dresses and bought her dolls, etc...but she always HATED those clothing and girl toys. She was expected to marry a man and have kids, but instead she lives the life of a lesbian. It is not her whole being, she is not pre-occupied with sex, in fact its the OPPOSITE...lol She has relationships at times, and other times she dosent.
I am very partial to someone being homosexual. It dosent bother me at all. As long as they are happy who am I to judge?
Are any differences known between culturally-defined homosexuals and genetic homosexuals? The distinction would be hard to make just off the top of my head...
I wonder if its possible to use animal models to create a 'homosexual culture' (whatever that maybe, any suggestions?) and compare those against the biological results that were presented in a previous posts. My guess is that homosexuals that develop out of culture will have different tendencies than genetic homosexuals...
Also, that idea that a 'homosexual gene' (if it exists) might be able to increase female fecundity is amazing! I have been noticing that many females are bisexual as well. It seems more females are bisexual than just lesbian. I think this supports both the genetic and cultural models because I believe women are more pressured to get married to a man and have children, but they still keep lesbian tendencies. Perhaps they were born genetically lesbian and pressured to like males? This is not conclusive because perhaps just the genes of gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals are different and work in interesting ways, but just speculating...
I wonder if its possible to use animal models to create a 'homosexual culture' (whatever that maybe, any suggestions?) and compare those against the biological results that were presented in a previous posts. My guess is that homosexuals that develop out of culture will have different tendencies than genetic homosexuals...
Also, that idea that a 'homosexual gene' (if it exists) might be able to increase female fecundity is amazing! I have been noticing that many females are bisexual as well. It seems more females are bisexual than just lesbian. I think this supports both the genetic and cultural models because I believe women are more pressured to get married to a man and have children, but they still keep lesbian tendencies. Perhaps they were born genetically lesbian and pressured to like males? This is not conclusive because perhaps just the genes of gay, lesbian and bisexual individuals are different and work in interesting ways, but just speculating...
Explain what you mean by culturally homosexual (vs. genetically homosexual).
the difference is hard to define without knowing any genetic/biological and cultural causes. it probably cannot be done in humans, but im just throwing out ideas. what do you think are possible distinguishing models for say, a rat or primate model?
QUOTE(Casey @ Mar 14, 2007, 07:59 AM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Mar 12, 2007, 02:35 PM)
according to your logic, drJOY, we should also tolerate pedophiles and beastiality.
Yes, I feel we should tolerate them as well.
We are a product of factors beyond our control.
Do you honestly believe anyone woke up one day and decided to be a pedophile?
Even if a person does "choose" to behave as a pedofile, he/she is still being controlled by factors beyond comprehension and understanding. The choices we voluntarily make each day are, in reality, far from true volition. (Disagree with me if it makes you feel better...being a pawn in the game of life doesn't exactly feel wonderful.)
It is one's actions which should concern us. While we should tolerate a pedofile, we should also take measures to ensure that s/he does not actually harm/molest a child. Intolerance of action seems reasonable because a victim party may be irrevokably harmed.
If you're tolerant of pedophiles, then you should be tolerant of the justice meeted out to them by society, right?
QUOTE(Casey @ Mar 14, 2007, 03:59 PM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Mar 12, 2007, 02:35 PM)
according to your logic, drJOY, we should also tolerate pedophiles and beastiality.
Yes, I feel we should tolerate them as well. We are a product of factors beyond our control.
Do you honestly believe anyone woke up one day and decided to be a pedophile?
Even if a person does "choose" to behave as a pedofile, he/she is still being controlled by factors beyond comprehension and understanding. The choices we voluntarily make each day are, in reality, far from true volition. (Disagree with me if it makes you feel better...being a pawn in the game of life doesn't exactly feel wonderful.)
It is one's actions which should concern us. While we should tolerate a pedofile, we should also take measures to ensure that s/he does not actually harm/molest a child. Intolerance of action seems reasonable because a victim party may be irrevokably harmed.
.
"Stupid is as stupid does"
-Forrest Gump
In other words, a pedophile is as a pedophile does. If he doesn't act on it what proof is there that he's a pedophile?
-Forrest Gump
In other words, a pedophile is as a pedophile does. If he doesn't act on it what proof is there that he's a pedophile?
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Jul 10, 2007, 03:08 AM)
"Stupid is as stupid does"
-Forrest Gump
In other words, a pedophile is as a pedophile does. If he doesn't act on it what proof is there that he's a pedophile?
Yes, proof is all. But are you ignoring the previous statement: -Forrest Gump
In other words, a pedophile is as a pedophile does. If he doesn't act on it what proof is there that he's a pedophile?
QUOTE(Casey @ Mar 14, 2007, 03:59 PM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Mar 12, 2007, 02:35 PM)
according to your logic, drJOY, we should also tolerate pedophiles and beastiality.
Yes, I feel we should tolerate them as well. QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 04:15 PM)
QUOTE(code buttons @ Dec 21, 2006, 11:34 AM)
QUOTE(lucid_dream @ Dec 21, 2006, 10:55 AM)
contest this claim. Can you produce any proof that Newton or Da Vinci were homosexual?
It's all over the literature. Just google it.
I did and I couldn't pull anything up over Newton or Da Vinci being homosexual. You may be thinking of John Nash. From my understanding and reading of biographies, Newton was a sexually-inhibited, socially inept, psychopath; Principia Mathematica and Opticks notwithstanding.
Before proceeding any further in this discussion, since you ask for a proof I think first, you should at least show one place in our history of humankind where analsex has been openly accepted by western religions...
Given our gruesome past NO rational human being would expect such popular persons to be openly homosexuals..
The only incident thats recorded that I know is the Greeks, and it is well documented that they took young males under their wings, although actual images of anal sex are rarer than less radical teachings.
http://www.androphile.org/preview/Culture/Greece/greece.html
Theres plenty more, didnt even read that much. I've often pondered how malable we actually are as humans. We sure seem to be able to make the best of anything life throws at us, and sometimes that seems to include bisexual behaviour.
One snippet from this website that seems to indicate the Greeks thought that intelligence was linked to bisexuality:
"Relationships with overly young boys were frowned upon then as they are now (though some Greek beloved youths would have fallen below the age of consent in many modern countries), one mark of a beloved ripe for a man’s attentions being the ability to “think for himself”."
I feel sorry for those in society that have socially unacceptable and "harmless" behaviours. A person who was openly against such things, even to the point of inciting antigay ridiculing etc then finding they begin to realise its all an illusion and they're gay/bi. Those people must be severely f**ked up, and they will be out there im sure. Stereotypical redneck behaviour comes to mind, although maybe the success of brokeback mountain has some wave of truth to attitudes changing.
http://www.androphile.org/preview/Culture/Greece/greece.html
Theres plenty more, didnt even read that much. I've often pondered how malable we actually are as humans. We sure seem to be able to make the best of anything life throws at us, and sometimes that seems to include bisexual behaviour.
One snippet from this website that seems to indicate the Greeks thought that intelligence was linked to bisexuality:
"Relationships with overly young boys were frowned upon then as they are now (though some Greek beloved youths would have fallen below the age of consent in many modern countries), one mark of a beloved ripe for a man’s attentions being the ability to “think for himself”."
I feel sorry for those in society that have socially unacceptable and "harmless" behaviours. A person who was openly against such things, even to the point of inciting antigay ridiculing etc then finding they begin to realise its all an illusion and they're gay/bi. Those people must be severely f**ked up, and they will be out there im sure. Stereotypical redneck behaviour comes to mind, although maybe the success of brokeback mountain has some wave of truth to attitudes changing.
There's a saying here in Texas that applies to what you're saying, TL:
"The bigger the gun, the bigger the fear"
"The bigger the gun, the bigger the fear"
Has any one ever thought that Heterosexuals? may have the same problem, as homosexuals?
i.e. both have a problem with intimacy, with a person of a SET BODY type........... either same or opposite sex
To me intimacy is only allowing another person to touch my body in a manner that is pleasing and very intimate, with out any right or wrong judgment..........
ant
i.e. both have a problem with intimacy, with a person of a SET BODY type........... either same or opposite sex
To me intimacy is only allowing another person to touch my body in a manner that is pleasing and very intimate, with out any right or wrong judgment..........
ant
Freddie Mercury, Michelangelo, Scott Thompson
3 of my favorite homosexuals that have contributed to society.
My personal belief is someone is either born homosexual or they have been sexually abused as a child which in turn can lead to all types of emotional and social struggles.
3 of my favorite homosexuals that have contributed to society.
My personal belief is someone is either born homosexual or they have been sexually abused as a child which in turn can lead to all types of emotional and social struggles.
I was never sexually abused, and I'm definately not homosexual, however I can recieve and give pleasure from wherever I deem fit simply because I have abandoned the social conditioning that was built up through the years after philosophically thinking about it.
Since biologically we all begin as females, then sexuality must be organic and changeable. Some gays seem to emulate femine traits, and some lesbians emulate male traits, they weren't born with assumed traits? Maybe its simply a way to identify themselves to other like-minded individuals.
The most homophobic people I know are often also the most closed and simple minded. I realised this early and this is the reason I decided their opinions weren't worth anything, and so removing and/or ignoring the conditioning of a stupid society wasn't a big problem for me. Others have a less easy time of it. I don't go shouting my sexuality at work though, not because I'm not proud of it, but because its not worth the effort to try and convince a factory full of morons. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite or some kind of closet-sexual deviant, but my close friends and family all know where I stand although I have never shown any bi tendencies around them so as to not make them feel uncomfortable. This is also my stance on hetro relationships too, I dont outwardly show a lot of affection when I have company etc. I have a lot of respect for people who are openly gay, even those annoying ultra-camp types that I personally can't stand to be around. It takes balls to put yourself at risk like that.
Since biologically we all begin as females, then sexuality must be organic and changeable. Some gays seem to emulate femine traits, and some lesbians emulate male traits, they weren't born with assumed traits? Maybe its simply a way to identify themselves to other like-minded individuals.
The most homophobic people I know are often also the most closed and simple minded. I realised this early and this is the reason I decided their opinions weren't worth anything, and so removing and/or ignoring the conditioning of a stupid society wasn't a big problem for me. Others have a less easy time of it. I don't go shouting my sexuality at work though, not because I'm not proud of it, but because its not worth the effort to try and convince a factory full of morons. Maybe that makes me a hypocrite or some kind of closet-sexual deviant, but my close friends and family all know where I stand although I have never shown any bi tendencies around them so as to not make them feel uncomfortable. This is also my stance on hetro relationships too, I dont outwardly show a lot of affection when I have company etc. I have a lot of respect for people who are openly gay, even those annoying ultra-camp types that I personally can't stand to be around. It takes balls to put yourself at risk like that.
First off lucid_dream has no idea what he or she is talking about, homosexuality is a life style which makes it very relevant to anyone in that life style or someone close to that person, further more the only way you can say ANYTHING about the way they live or act you have to be homosexual. In conclusion if I ever hear any of you, especially lucid_dream, you will be verbally attacked by me
trojan_libido
so are you saying that you have received and given sexual pleasure to someone of the same sex?
b/c if you have, then you have performed a homosexual act.
I'm not here to judge or say what is right or wrong. I don't care about other people's sexuality or desires as long as it does not hurt anyone or anything that's unwilling.
But if you find that you are having more and more of these "relationships" with the same sex, then maybe you are homosexual.
I guess my other question would be . Who do you feel more connected to? A female or male? Which one makes you feel more complete?
If you were to ever "settle" with someone. Which sex would it be?
Peace and Love
Always
so are you saying that you have received and given sexual pleasure to someone of the same sex?
b/c if you have, then you have performed a homosexual act.
I'm not here to judge or say what is right or wrong. I don't care about other people's sexuality or desires as long as it does not hurt anyone or anything that's unwilling.
But if you find that you are having more and more of these "relationships" with the same sex, then maybe you are homosexual.
I guess my other question would be . Who do you feel more connected to? A female or male? Which one makes you feel more complete?
If you were to ever "settle" with someone. Which sex would it be?
Peace and Love
Always
My problem is not with homosexuals as such but with homosexual rights activists, who seem to base their entire political philosophy on what they do with their genitals.
No, they base their philosophy on freedom.
QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 15, 2008, 08:42 PM)
No, they base their philosophy on freedom.
What is freedom?
In this case I'd say the ability to express a desire, point of reference, choices in identity and to live with those ideas as one might wish to live without taking that ability or trying to influence another to take away personal choice.
True freedom however is not co-dependent and doesn't come from something outside of ones self.
Humanity is the expression of thought and desire. Unfortunately we are taught these days that we have to fight for our rights and freedoms because they are always under threat of invasion.
True freedom however is not co-dependent and doesn't come from something outside of ones self.
Humanity is the expression of thought and desire. Unfortunately we are taught these days that we have to fight for our rights and freedoms because they are always under threat of invasion.
I was going to write a long philosophical speech on the nature of free will and the necessity of acceptance of deviant behavior in society, but decided to post this poem instead.
Poem, by me.
Some people love men. Others, love women.
Some people love both, and others love none. =\
And there are those, too, who just love themselves.
Some even like horses, while others like cats.
Some do it with brothers and others with sisters.
Some did it with children, perhaps even their own.
While me, like so many others, decided to screw it
and just do your mom.
Poem, by me.
Some people love men. Others, love women.
Some people love both, and others love none. =\
And there are those, too, who just love themselves.
Some even like horses, while others like cats.
Some do it with brothers and others with sisters.
Some did it with children, perhaps even their own.
While me, like so many others, decided to screw it
and just do your mom.
DAD?!
Look into your heart, You know it to be true!
I'd like the car you promised me, now.
QUOTE
so are you saying that you have received and given sexual pleasure to someone of the same sex?
b/c if you have, then you have performed a homosexual act.
Obviously you've not read through the earlier posts. I really dont think a direct question was necessary. Are you aghast?b/c if you have, then you have performed a homosexual act.
QUOTE
But if you find that you are having more and more of these "relationships" with the same sex, then maybe you are homosexual.
Its really not true that the quantity of male/female relationships dictates your true sexuality. There are many reasons for temporarily deciding on one way or another, an example is a friend who was raped. She suddenly became a lesbian, or so she thought. It is possible to just have sex where you can get it, and that be leaning to more gay partners than straight. Its also possible to not get any sex from any gender, does this mean these people are bi-sexual until that first encounter?Female and male sexuality is for completely different reasons. A woman looks for a stable bread winner and good DNA for their children. A man is often just looking to get his rocks off. This is the reason the gay relationships are very unstable and so promiscuous.
QUOTE
Who do you feel more connected to? A female or male? Which one makes you feel more complete?
I am more open in female company, but this may be biased because males are emotionally uptight. Whens the last time you hugged a male friend, or cried in front of your buddies (assuming your male)? I only fall in love with females, only they are ever put on a mental pedestal. Take from that what you want.QUOTE
If you were to ever "settle" with someone. Which sex would it be?
Definately female. But is that still social not conditioning? If you can have a tasy cookie for free or a tasty muffin for £5.00, you will in most cases eat the cookie! The additional cost of alienation, embarrasment, and impact on my families life may be too much cost for two equally pleasing choices.
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