Hmm, intresting idea. I suppose if you were to create a alternate reality within the mind, in which you have no stress, no worries, no cares, where your mind is completly clear... then this would be possible. First two things that come to mind which are capable of such a thing are hypnosis and meditation.

Wouldn't hypnosis only circumvent the stress?

Nope, at least it shouldnt, fact is hypnosis naturally relaxes a subject and relieves stress.

So your suggesting hypnosis can permanently wipe out the internal programming that creates stress.

yes

No, it simply creates an alternate reality that is void of stress.

This causes the subject to become more relaxed in so called "actual reality"

"Actual reality" then falling into whatever is suggested by the hypnotist.
But what then happens to the internal programs taken on by the sense of will in the individual (memory), is it erased?

No, the internal programs of will and ethics are still existant.

The individual cannot be construed to knowingly do something that violates their ethics.

Hypnosis is simply a third party who by-passes the conscious and speaks directly to the obidient sub-conscious. The sub-conscious can still be ordered around by the conscious mind as well, sense of will is limited to the conscious mind, sense of morals and ethics is both conscious and sub-conscious.

The memories of an individual can be forgotten or suppressed or even changed. However it is a very difficult thing to cause a person to forget strong memories, it has a neurological imprint and requires a very deep level of hypnosis and even then it is only temporary unless hypnosis is redone every month or so. It is however fairly easy to make a person forget certain things, making them forget who they are entirely is known as Deep Hypnosis Identification. This is where they identify themselves as another person with a completly diffrent memory and personality.

Again, I tend to want to agree with you, Max However, I am prompted to ask: What do we do with laws which have been established by scientific experiments?

Realize that science has been wrong before and will be wrong again.

Use the laws that give us benifit, discard the ones that bring us harm. Remember that all realities have laws and it is those laws which make them seem more real to us, the laws enhance our experience of reality.

Make your own decisions, decide your own truth. Thats the conclusion I came to and ive been happier because of it.

If you want a god, make a god, if you want a heaven then it shall be so. Realising that you can create your own truths, essentially makes you the god of your reality.

I do stress the fine line between making truths and dillusion, it seems as though you are still bound to work in the laws of your reality. In other words, every reality has laws, these laws define the reality and make it seem real to us. It seems as though we cannot violate such laws, only change the laws (dont forget 500 years ago the universe revolved around the earth). So whatever the laws are in your reality, you have to work with them.

So prehaps we are demi-gods of reality, as such, you can live whatever life you want to. Granted one cannot snap their fingers and become emperor of rome... but, you can create an alternate reality, snap your fingers and become emperor of rome. You could also restore the roman empire and proclaim yourself as emperor Ceaser II.

Alternativly, you cannot pull out the next great american novel from a magic hat. However you can create a alternate reality where you did, then reverse engineer the entire process to find out how to make the next great american novel and make it in this reality. The sub-conscious has the power to come up with the entire novel for you, why should you do the work when your uber powerful subconscious can do it for you?

Rules of reality are like those of a video game, they are there to make the experience challenging and fun, but there are glitches and ways to work around the rules too. These can be found either scientifically or philosophically.

"The axiom that values come from reason or religion is wrong... There are better ways of ensuring moral motivation than scaring the crap out of people." - Patricia Churchland, philosopher, University of California, San Diego

Religion is always about power play. Wherever there are priests there will be problems.

Wherever there is ego there will be choices made from fear and the attempt to manipulate and control the environment. This is relevent to an social system, religion is not the problem.

Religion can create problems, but the attempt to control ones environment is sociological, but completly giving up the attempt to control anything is also a psychological hinderance. Seems as though a balance is needed.

I remember a guy who wore a vest with print, that said "If it has tits or wheels, it's gonna give you trouble!"

We can put blame on anything as the cause of our problems. Balance can only occur when there is the experience of Universal Truth, or when one can stand back and observe the choices people make and allow them to make their choices without being invested in their choices.
There is a certain amount of inevitablity to the universe, like if you stand in the rain your gonna get wet kinda thing but there is no inevitability in choices being made by others, to cause another or the world to suffer.
People see problems when something directly affects them. Humanity being somewhat flexible can move beyond any condition if it has a mind to.
I think there are a few that have no patience.

Your not going to get wet if you have a raincoat on ^.-

I am assuming you don't go out in the rain too much~

I think he was making a joke..

I am a product of a failed evangelical christian fundamentalist dogma. I certainly do not think then when I was a practising evangelical I had any choice at all, my choices were all dictated and not of my own will.
Religion comes from the root latin word religo - which means to tie, to fasten and keep behind. In my opinion religion was ALWAYS meant as a method to control people and repress their own intellect.

Humanity, a victimized society of circumstance.

Well then if you accept your own circumstances you fully accept everyone else and allow them to be who they are according to their circumstances.

Life is a product of programming and has no value other than to fall victim to circumstance.

And so it was, is and shall continue to be.

However this begs the question;

What created the circumstances?

Depends on your philosophy, if you beileve in a god then the god made them.

If you are an atheist then you come to realize that reality is a thing of the mind, created by the mind and therefore, everything that was and ever shall be is directly affected by your mind.

I suppose a third view could be a pseudo version of the two combined...

Yeah I was making a joke.

This is why creation, or art is a very strange concept indeed.

I do not understand?

The mind creates all reality, therefore, for the mind to create something like art - is very natural. It would be strange if there was no art.

I mean art in the truer sence. I mean the actual essence of creatitivity itself. For the mind to create its reality the mind must have a platform or a medium to operate on. From where does this creative 'essence' if you like come from? And what is it?

I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)

No, I was being facetious.


That'd be you..

J-Man have you ever read Freakonomics? I recommend you do--there is a particular section about nature v. nurture that is pretty interesting. You may question your beliefs a bit~

What beleifs?

"I never though I'd hear J admit that genes and environment determine all we are. (just joking, of course he's not .... is he?)

No, I was being facetious."

Hmm? what beliefs indeed, I also do not get what your saying Flex.

Ahh scratch that I forgot what I was talking about

Is that "ahh" as in: ahh! (apathy)? or as in: err! (disdain)?

Ahh as in ahh I give up my memory sucks~

[quote name='project-2501' date='Dec 12, 2006, 09:53 AM' post='73505']

P-2501, thanks for your excellent definition of "sick religion" when you write: "I am a product of a failed evangelical christian fundamentalist dogma. I certainly do not think then when I was a practising evangelical I had any choice at all, my choices were all dictated and not of my own will.
Religion comes from the root latin word religo - which means to tie, to fasten and keep behind. In my opinion religion was ALWAYS meant as a method to control people and repress their own intellect."
Are you convinced that all religion must be this way?

Ironically, they will never know. Death is final.

The only kind of religion that could be "good" would be one that enhances the knowledge of its followers. Since the only practice that does that is science, there is no good religion.

Every "good" that comes from religion could be had in a way that does no extraneous harm. Sacrificing knowledge of reality for comfort is a sucker's reward.

Enhancing the irony further, the false religious comfort is also unnecessary. Reality brings its own good news. Even better, the good news of reality is true: ask not "who am I," ask rather "who am I not?"

Just this AM I heard and interview (CBC) with a professor and researcher at the University of Montreal, Dr. Mario Beauregard. I was about his book:
The Spiritual Brain: A Neuroscientist's Case for the Existence of the Soul (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0060858834...0AS#reader-link
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While you are at it, check out:
There Is a God: How the World's Most Notorious Atheist Changed His Mind
Antony Flew, Roy Abraham Varghese
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0061335290...015#reader-link
BTW, I prefer to say, there is GØD, or GØD is. Not, there is a God.
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To be fair, I found this interesting. It describes Roy Abraham Varghese as a con.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007/11...e_exploitat.php

So why are Christians so desperate? It's because they know unconsciously that they have a losing proposition.