There is a huge element of self-defeat in the attacks by Muslim leaders, both here and abroad, on Pope Benedict XVI and his discourse last week on the nature of God.

Already several churches, none of them Catholic, have been violated and an effigy of the Pope burnt by outraged Muslims as well as the usual demands for retractions and apologies.

There has not, however, been any serious discussion of his remarks by anyone of any stature in the Islamic world. Therein lies the nub of the conflict between the spiritual leaders of much of the Muslim world and those who uphold such clear Western values as freedom of speech and intellectual inquiry.

The Pope, the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, is a serious scholar of renown and his remarks deserve to be accorded full respect and examined with intellectual honesty. As the world learned from the faux scandal over the Danish cartoons, there is a sparsity of both traits among those whose sole desire is to inflame tensions between global Islam and the West.

In his remarks, the Pope made it abundantly clear he was quoting from a conversation between the 14th century Byzantine Christian emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a scholarly Persian on the nature of Christianity and Islam.

The emperor touched on the theme of jihad (holy war) and a particular reference in the Koran (2:256) still quoted frequently by Muslims to argue there is no compulsion in religion.

However, the emperor, who was aware of the nature of other verses which justified jihad, then rather bluntly asked about the relationship between religion and violence in general, in these words: "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

The Pope told his audience the emperor detailed the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable – and that was the essence of his address. He quoted the emperor as saying: "Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul."

It is not un-Christian to make such an obvious statement, as some have claimed, and those fanning the outrage only dishonour those who claim that Islam is the religion of tolerance.

Ah. So the nazi Pope is getting caught being an ass. Serves him right. Down with religion and mysticism.

If Islam has its way, the whole world will be plunged into the Dark Ages

how much do you of islam? i'd say very little.

If assholes have their way (basically any given current world leader) we will be plunged into the Dark Ages. It really has nothing to do with Islam, or Christianity or any religion; those are just the channels by which assholes happen to go about world conquest.

I can't wait for Barak Obama...I suspect he too will become an asshole--it is just part of the job qualifications.

alternatives?

I'm glad you asked. It is about time we have a world wide revolution to remove assholes from power. The idea currently is an impossability, but I have faith that soon it could be acomplished. We need a world government. There could be a web page that everyone votes on and the ad space could be sold for millions. The money raised from the ad space would fund the development of libraries and community centers so that everyone would be able to vote. Essentially it would be a world democracy and not the bullshit representative democracies that exist now. Another step towards this ultimate goal would be to unify the world under one language. It is rediculous to say that everyone should abandon their language and their culture, but it is not rediculous to look at China for an alternative. I believe there are over 80 different cultures in China each with their own language, yet the entire country is unified in that their written language is universal. It is about time the world learns a common language (I suggest sign language).

so china is a good place?

as far as I can see China is kicking the US in the balls left and right. I would say without a doubt China is superior to the United States right now, and we could learn alot. That is not to say that China is perfect, but more so than the tyranic country I live in yes. My brother is facing a charge of $250,000 and 5 yrs in jail because he refuses to register for the draft (note registering for the draft is unconstitutional--it has been decided that "seperate but equal" is not equal. Girls do not have to register). The registration form comes filled out with everything but ss number which they clearly have if they have filled everything else out for you. It is a voluntary registration so long as you pay no attention to the fact that they hold a $250,000 fine and jail time over your head. Luckily my brother has enough balls to stand up to the assholes. I would have to say that we are far inferior to China. I don't care if people are starving in China, people are starving here.

the same China that got whipped by the much smaller Japanese island not so long ago?

if ur talking about the pupet state of Manchuria (I believe that was in China) then you are simply pointing out a period in time when Japan was looking to unjustly expand their empire and gain resources. When you are an island it is difficult to supply enough resources to expand a nation. You also know then that Japans conquest ultimately lead to the United States freezing Japanese assets resulting in the attack on Pearl Harbor which in the end lead to millions of deaths. That argument has nothing to do with Chinas superiority, that simply shows that Japan was an asshole at that period of time, and we were an even greater asshole. You can not look at the past to describe the present. If you think that military power is any indication of the success of a nation then you yourself are most likely one of the assholes that I oppose.

I believe that the power to change the world is what matters. The problem with China is that its people are, in general, too subservient, effeminate, passive, sheltered, and lack initiative and creativity. Must be partly attributed to Buddhist influence/decadence.

Well all I know is that in the next 10 years China will become the worlds largest economy. China has such vast buying power that the price of metals like copper have increased drasticaly, so when you are re-plumbing your house you can thank China for your bill. The fact is that China is changing the world--their growing nation is impacting our beauracratic nation. It would be nice if people in the US headed the word of the federalist papers from time to time.

Indeed, that sentiment forms the core of Democratic values. Be sure to vote Democrat November 7th in the USA. Remove those assholes from power!


Discrimination by sex is not yet unconstitutional. The equal rights amendment failed to pass back in the 1970s. However, the military draft is unconstitutional by the 13th amendment, which says:

"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."

Involuntary military service is involuntary servitude, and therefore illegal. The Constitution means what it says. All draft age people should refuse to register. It's your moral duty to uphold the law and point out injustice wherever it occurs. Those who wish to serve their country in the military should do so (as I did). Those who do not, should not. Those who support the Constitution should refuse to register for the draft. Some day somebody with courage will make a test case and he will be upheld by the Supreme Court.

There is no freedom of speech in China, Human rights are worse than in the United States. What you do privately is monitored by officials placed in villages, Counties, Cities etc. There is no freedom of religious worship in China and there is no freedom to create political parties in China.
I think you are a bit confused about how you see China and how you make comparisons.
By the way in China your brother would face more than 5 years in prison and the rest of your family would suffer as well due to political pressure keeping them from getting good jobs and any fair treatment in any social programs.

I honestly couldn't say--I do not live in China. But I do know that there is something better than what we have, and I do know that people my age will b*tch all day but when it comes down to it they wont stand up for what they believe in; but I will.


Whisper

If I could stop all The World
Each and every person in place
And hold them that way
Heart to heart, face to face
Well, what would I say
To the whole human race?
What words could I say
That would not fall to waste?

Would I tell all the world
That I love them sincerely?
Should I expect them to care?
Would The World even hear me?
Would I tell all the world
Something hopeful and fake
Something mystic and grand
A true lie to embrace?

Or instead, should I say
Something both sweet and bitter
Something true as a raindrop
Fell free from the weather
Something everyone knows
But nobody considers
Should I tell all The World
“I know we can do better”?

-Ronnie Day

Being that you drew your comparison with China in mind and having admitted you know nothing about China, it Would appear that you're standing up for your beliefs that are founded on knowledge that isn't really knowledge, but supposition.

What is the difference between standing up for false beliefs and bitching all day?

I would not say that anything I have said thus far is a false belief. I know about the history and politics of China; however, I myself do not live in China and thus can not speak of the treatment of their people. I can say that it is a fact that China is consuming resources and impacting the economy, and even that there are over 80 different cultures who all speak different languages unified under one writing system, I however cannot say anything to the nature of the treatment of the individuals. I admited that I know nothing about how people are treated in China (nothing other than American propoganda that is) and thus I cannot speak on the subject.

"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education" -Mark Twain

In highschool I was being prescribed readings out of traditional American text books, so I took my learning into my own hands and read McNelly's Sources In Modern East Asian History and Politics as well as Zinn's A Peoples History of the United States. These books seldom introduce anything outside of fact, thus I know essentially nothing about how people in China feel (alright Howard Zinn does have a great bias but McNelly is a very respectable resource). If you yourself have lived in China and have some greater insight it would be much appreciated, but if not I do not believe you have any place in disgussing the matter any more than I do.

Actually I have several students from Hong Kong and Mainland China. Two of them living with me now have been sharing their experience of getting information to the Chinese about the Teaching of Ascension. Last year we had several Teachers give introductory lectures in Mainland China but there is the danger of meeting resistance due to the fear that exists in the people for practicing free speech and religious rights.

The Chinese and Hong Kong people who have come here speak of the luxury we have to freely paractice our beliefs. The students from Hong Kong are used to stuffing an entire family into a 400 sq. ft apt. and usually find american houses very large and spacious. They think we waste a lot of space.

Often people who stand up for their beliefs (people such as yourself) have not the experience of lving in a foreign country to fully appreciate what they have.
I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement but it appears from your statements that you stepped off on a foot with no history of experience other than what you have learned in your own back yard.

I've spent some time in a few countries where people have nothing. They like you, make comparison to countries in which they have no experience of, standing up for their beliefs, based on what they have read or heard second hand.



Don't cut yourself short. you have the right to say whatever you want to even if you don't know what you're talking about. That's what freedom of speech is all about.

By the way, you can't learn everything there is to know about a subject from a book, or several books.

once again I really have no idea about living conditions in China, but my friends house is only 500 sq ft and he manages to live with a family of 5 and an uncle (6 total) just to pay rent. I wouldn't even consider him too bad off. My ex girlfriend lived in a roughly 30 million dollar house (7 bed 9 bath) and now has one of the most fucked up lives I have ever seen. I really don't think that money has anything to do with quality of life.

As for free speech, I really don't believe there is such a thing in the United States. Limited free speech is not free. For example I believe that refusal to register for the draft is symbolic speech, yet if you refuse you are subject to a quarter million and 5 yrs (doesn't sound so free to me). The Declaration of the Rights of Man state the rights to life, liberty, and property (which for our nations Declaration of Independence was changed to the pursuit of happiness). The XIV Amendment went about getting this idea into the constitution through judicial interpretation by stating that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

"nor shall any state deprive ANY person of life, liberty, or property". It seems like that is exactly what we are doing to "illegal" immigrants, and not only that but to our own people. I believe it was Kielo v. New London which dealt with imminant domain. My gradfathers land was taken by the government to develop a park. He was given his "just" compensation for the land, a check of about $1000 that to this day has not been cashed because he did not support the governments decision to rob him of his land. The land today is worth roughly $10,000,000. That one little phrase "without due process of law" is the ultimate catch 22. You have no real right to life, liberty, or property, or for that matter freedom of speech, press etc. There is a reason why reporters can not show pictures of the dead soldiers coffins.

TINSTAAFL- There is no such thing as a free lunch... aka "Freedom isn't free" my personal favorite redneck bumpersticker. It is something I just can't agree with, and that I don't belive John Locke could agree with. There are inherent rights that I believe all people are born with, and I find that NO State shall deprive ANY person of LIFE, LIBERTY, or PROPERTY, for ANY reason.

On a different note--I have become good friends with a man in Japan (he attended the Culinary Institute of America with me) and he is a die hard Christian. I know he is spreading the Teaching of Ascension in Japan, and his wife is a news reporter who is broadcast to all of Asia and Eastern Europe. There was actually an article on my brother in the news paper in Hong Kong just a few weeks ago, so from my own experience I have yet to see the limitations of freedom of speech in Asia, but I am sure it is probably worse than our present state, but that is not to say that those people should not stand up for what they know is right eaither. Once again my idea of world government The world wide revolution in which each individual has the right to vote for how they want the world to be governed. If the world decides that we should not have freedom of speech then I am fine with it. But the fact that very few wealthy men dictate how I should live is not right.

oh and I am not trying to offend any one, I am just young, naiive and arrogant it is my job I will grow out of it eventualy and conform...