I like simple answers, so I'll take up the challenge: in order to be alive.

1. They already are available to anyone who seeks them, e.g., hawaiian baby woodrose seeds.

2. Albert Hoffmann (http://www.hofmann.org/) who discovered LSD, and Timothy Leary, who for a while, succeeded in popularizing it, were at opposite ends of the philosophical scale on this issue. Hoffmann represented the elitists, who claimed that those experiences should be reserved for the special few. Leary believed that psychedelics were for everyone.

3. Yes. I think Leary was right in the belief that more self-knowledge is better.

4. I think people sort themselves. The timid should never consider consciousness expansion. The scientific method is appropriate to progress.

I think Leary spoilt the whole issue for the world, too much sensationalist media and ignorant people. Much like the Nazi's spoilt the Swatsika.

Joesus, I still don't know

I can't speak for flies and weeds, and I wouldn't know our purpose apart from God disclosing the information. Take Adam, for instance, when he had a perfect body, perfect mind, perfect reasoning and observation skills, and he lived in a perfect environment. But The Lord had to instruct him what to do: "freely eat of all the fruit of the trees" "do not eat of the tree in the middle of the garden" "have dominion over the earth, sky, and sea, and all they contain" and "be yourselves fruitful and multiply." Even Adam couldn't reason himself to know what he must do, God had to speak.

I know you say the Bible was written by men in which God had no part, and men are liars. But that leaves you and all of us with nothing but our own reasoning abilities, and lying hearts on top of that (which I wouldn't disagree with). I've heard once that depression (suicide being the ultimate end of depression) is merely a lack of hope. Your idea of the Bible leaves us in a hopeless situation.

But my life rests, filled with hope, on the God who speaks.



If not simple, then condensed. I have some time. But you are quite deep Joesus and your posts can be loaded, making it difficult to respond to everything.



I haven't told you everything at once. Do not think you understand because I have spoken one word.

Apart from Christ, that is all I am. With Him it is a totally different story.

You ought to take up puzzles. You might learn something invaluable.




hmm... is this a joke?

you've done nothing but bible-thump since you got here. Aren't you capable of thinking for yourself? You do understand that nature graced you with a brain, right? Somehow I don't think you get the fact that nobody cares about your dogmatism, and that incessantly quoting the bible makes you look like a pawn.


you should learn to refrain from offering gratuitous and irrelevant advice.

Welcome to the age of reason. It began about 400 years ago. Humanism shows that we can learn to rely on ourselves. Better late than never.

To help you get started, a good paper to read is "Religious Thought and Behavior as By-Products of Brain Function" by Pascal Boyer, Departments of Anthropology and Psychology, Washington University in St. Louis. Reference:

http://artsci.wustl.edu/~pboyer/PBoyerHome...s/BoyerTiCS.pdf

Here's a relevant excerpt:

People do not generally have religious beliefs because they have pondered the evidence for or against the actual existence of particular supernatural agents. Rather, they grow into finding a culturally acquired description of such agents intuitively plausible. How does that happen? We know a lot about the external factors that predict differences in religious adherence [38] but we know little about the cognitive processes involved, about the difference between imaginary companions and supposedly real protective ancestors. The cognitive findings summarized here offer a speculative explanation.

Lions Honey, do you really believe that Adam was the perfect being, Eve was created from his rib, and that the world was created in 6 days?

Thank you! You can be sure I'll look into that.



What is more believable, that a woman was created out of Adam while he slept, or new creations of men and women out of Christ in his death?

The story is blatantly a metaphor, there is always a predecessor. Your question doesn't really make sense to me though.

Well then, you really can't imagine.

What makes you get up in the morning after going to bed at night, instead of sleeping forever?

If you can answer that question you might be close to understanding why God creates the manifest.

In my view, that is one of the key questions. Answering it started me on my own quest 40 years ago. I used the question in a slightly modified form. Given that one does wake up in the morning, why move at all rather than just lying still or going back to sleep?

Socrates used a similar situation, only somewhat inverted. He was observed standing motionless in his garden for some time. When asked why, he said he had resolved not to take another step until he had solved some particular problem.

Has your answer evolved with your understanding or is it still where it was 40 years ago?

In other words have you decided to stand still until the question is resolved or is the question everpresent?

Just answer the question, man. I guess I'm confused about your answers. You admit that the Bible is the word of God, who put liars in charge of writting it for Him/Her. So, do you believe in it to the letter, or you don't?

lions honey has evidently voluntarily stopped learning and closed his mind the moment he accepted the holey bible as sole truth. Sad, but lions honey is probably your typical bible belt american; a bumpkin with a bone to crack and a bible to thump.

Really, lions honey, I hope you choose to open your mind again. I'm sure many people here can and will offer you help to overcome your spiritual immaturity. Maybe it would help if you explained your sad predicament of your parents or church brainwashing you at a young age to accept ridiculous dogmas; in this way you would evoke sympathy from some forum members who would seek to free you from your bondage to the heavy chains of ignorance.

this is an interesting multifaceted question that admits many answers. I will assume that you mean "what makes you get out of bed in the morning after you wake up?", since the process of waking up is biological and can be explained in terms of sleep cycles.

Assuming a non-spiritual answer, then some possible answers could include 1) habit & routine, which involves largely unconscious processes and involves little motivation or conscious effort, or 2) motivation (desire) to do something, which requires conscious coordination and effort. There are things that lead to 1) or 2), too. For example, you could wake up and be very curious about something, which in turn motivates you to get up and satisfy your curiosity. Or you could wake up desiring to further your self-realization or self understanding, and so that motivates you to get up and/or to become more aware.

I would think that most people need to justify why they get up in some way or another, often by considering the consequences of if they don't get up. For example, someone gets up because they have responsibilities or need to work to make money to live. Assuming money is not an issue, and responsibilities are not an issue... then things like desire or curiosity will motivate someone to get up to do something.

You could also adopt an evolutionary perspective on things. We, by nature, get up in the morning because our ancestors who could get up in the morning had a reproductive advantage over those that didn't get up.

You could also adopt a biological perspective and say we get up in the morning because our brains have circadian rhythms. And that even if we stayed in bed, our brains would still start functioning like we were active and moving about. Our bodies would too as evidenced by the 24 hour variations in body temperature which occur regardless of whether we stay in bed.

You could also say that self-awareness seeks to realize and to understand itself, which is often hard to do when asleep.

The scientific method is apt but seems to have limitations. For instance, requiring reproducibility of elements of consciousness is currently not feasible given that the elements of consciousness are dependent on the great complexity of the brain, which we are not able to take fully into account. In fact, we can speculate that taking fully into account the brain's complexity is non-computable, which means that the scientific method, or any rigorous method, may not be very useful.

Some say those with their eyes open and without knowledge of themselves and their relationship with the universe are asleep and have yet to awaken.

Ah, so I interpreted your question literally and you had to go all figurative on me!

Sure, the sleeper in all of us must awaken. Even those awake may still be sleeping. In any event, spiritual awakening is not black and white, of either awake or asleep, but rather consists of shades of gray, of people with varying degrees of spiritual wakefulness, with complete spiritual awakening being something incomprehensible to our species and serving as mainly an ideal to aim for. Even what many describe as "enlightenment" is just a tiny blip on the grand scale of consciousness (or conscious awareness, if you prefer).

I find it somewhat difficult to answer that question (about waking up) from the perspective of impersonal consciousness. One of the advantages of ego, I suppose, is that its responses center around a well-defined frame of reference that other egos in the vicinity can easily relate to. To speak from the perspective of pure impersonal consciousness is to let go of the comforting illusions and assumptions that facilitate communication, with the result that little can be effectively communicated. I figured your question was more spiritual, but it's difficult for me to formulate an eloquent reply that says precisely what I mean, which may be due to the fact that deeper thoughts and feelings are typically non-verbal things, with tenuous or non-existent connections to the verbal lexicon.

I get out of bed because of the consequences of not. I've been depressed enough to temporarily not care, but all that meant is hell for my financial life that I still carry the burden of. I get up because I'm motivated to do so, to finish work, see my daughter, play big poker tournaments, code puzzle solvers, see my friends. Depression seems to dampen the need of all these things. Many people have lost everything because they were so depressed they couldn't get out of bed. Many others have died simply because they didn't have the will to live. Some animals can die, indirectly, of depression.

The happiness of an individual seems extremely important when trying to understand why we get out of bed at all. Hope that we can better our personal world is also very important.

To bring this back around to the original topic, I ask the following:
What if science created a wonder-drug that had no side effects or adverse reactions, and this drug could alter your mood to extremely happy and self-content. How would anti-drug policies cope with a risk free happy drug?

I ain't talking beer either, before someone says it

Keep the mood up Trojan! What was not done in present life will be done in the next. Be sure.
Happiness, bravery, hard work, vritues, goodness, freedom, Wisdom! the words which boost the mood and the spiderish spirits of sadness run away when your spirit and brain are getting triggered and the shining light make them to run away from you. Never give up! Fight in Air, on Land, in Sea and you will win.

Now to the question.

As science cannot always claim omni-scientific knowledge, then what is offered as ultimate remedy of everything next day can turn into a great peril when human knowledge increase a little. So, the Good Creator sometimes should be trusted and even consulted on complex matters.
Sometimes I think that we have two creators: Evil Creator and Good Creator. The Evil Creator made as slaves of our flesh and passions so we reproduce and spread all over the planet to fulfill some his very morbid plans and the Good Creator had opportunity to add into us something that gives us freedom of thinking, liberates from passions and addictions, gives us freedom and opens the way to the eternal existence among the stars. So, we need to consult with the Good Creator who does not consider us as a cattle.

Thanks Enki, your words refresh for sure!

The mushroom releases us from this cattle state, at least temporarily.

Correct. And from a personal perspective, I wake up in the morning because: 1) There is a morning 2) I can 3) It's part of what I am, who I am.

I apologize for sounding cryptic. Let me try again. You were asking if I really believed in those things, as though such stories are far fetched and difficult to believe. And in essence, as a person who believes in the gospel of Christ, as I've made clear, was asking, Which is more difficult to believe, that God created a woman out of a man in his sleep, or created a new race of man out of Christ in his death? If I believe the more harder, surely I believe God could make a woman from a man.

What do you mean there is always a predecessor?



I thought I've made this clear in earlier posts, but I'll be happy to make it clearer. I believe God exists. I believe He is personal. I believe He has spoken. And Yes, I believe none other than the Bible is God's spoken word to man, recorded not by liars, but by holy men moved by the holy Spirit. And I believe this book (or compilation of books) and its reliability stands proven against the toughest scrutiny.



I don't know, what does?



Well you just got me figured out don't ya?

I'm sorry for being slow to understand you. But, to reiterate, you DO believe everything in the bible to the word because it is the word of god, right? Which, to answer Trojan_Libido's question, it would mean that you do believe that god created the universe and earth and then us humans in exactly 6 days. Which, would also mean that, it should be the bible and not science that we should rely upon in order to understand reality and interact with it?

Where is this reference to God creating a new race on Christs death? I've not heard it mentioned ever before. I also know that those two are not the only options. Its like saying which do you believe more:

"The pyramids were created by aliens" or "The pyramids created aliens that became us" Choose one

If you follow evolution, or if you don't believe that, your family tree, far enough back you will eventually come to the point where the first lifeforms emerged from the physical elements. These also came from other less complex elements and so on and so on. Eventually you arrive at the question men have been trying to answer since consciousness was able to ask the question. How did something come from nothing? Then you end up inventing a deity that some call God, others call Allah, and others still reference as the Big Bang. Like I said, there is always a predecessor, its just how far back you decide to look.

I can't believe, ever, that there were two beings created by God called Adam and Eve.

Also you believe the Bible is right and only the bible because it was written by holy men inspired by the holy spirit! I began to write a book a year or so ago, I believe I was inspired by the holy spirit, and this isn't me being funny. But my holy spirit isn't the same as your holy spirit. My holy spirit was pure passion, it did not require me to convert and control the masses. The point is you weren't there, you didn't see them first hand to know instinctively they were holy men, and finally there is no such thing as a holy man. Only good natured, honourable, and other adjectives should be used to describe a mans behaviour. God isn't required. So basically I'm saying how do you know those "holy men" weren't conspiring to create a power from the masses? How do you know the Bible you read is even remotely related to these "holy men's" words? Which passages are uncorrupted?

The answer is simply you don't, therefore you would be a fool to swallow it all whole and regurgitate it at open minded and intelligent people.

Can you please return to the original topic, and not make this all about how the Bible says this, and God said that. We're talking about entheogenic use in attaining the mystical state that those Holy men of yours had. Is the everyday joe able to attain a mystical state by the use of entheogens? Are they valuable tools to discover spirituality and your own psychological problems?

I agree. We should transfer the last few posts to "Will Christianity be the downfall of the USA?" thread.

The answer depends on the most objective possible definition of happiness and/or content.

God Is In The Magic Mushrooms
Psychedelic drugs could be very good for your mind, heart, soul. Can you believe?

1. The topic makes a statement. "God is in The Magic Mushrooms"
No one has made the final determination as to what God is.

2. Psychedelic drugs could be very good for your mind, heart, soul. Can you believe?
Beliefs change from one to the next. There is no final solution as long as beliefs in God and what is good for the mind heart and soul, is subject to multifaceted interpretations.

Someone might get hit over the head with a hammer and have an exalted vision and believe they have found a tool for spiritual awakening. Buddha sat under a tree when he supposedly awoke.

This is the original topic, unless you decide to be the only judge and jury on what the statements and questions mean.

Ultimately I think that is the reflection of truth here.
Each decides what is useful to themselves regardless of what anyone else thinks. The only downfall of the ego in this, is that those with low self esteem always show themselves when someone says something that threatens their choice. They find every excuse to make the other wrong and their choice right.

This post could ultimately point in a direction toward ones own psychological need to be right and avoid being wrong. Fear of condemnation and having to look back on ones own choices as being wrong through self judgment.

Invariably we would like to control and manipulate the world so that it looks and acts a certain way. Very few have the capacity to make choices from greater awareness than fear and self condemnation.
This is why we look for the cheap way out, to find a definitive answer to God and our relationship with God so we do not have to worry about making the wrong choice.

If you could admit that there is no one thing that will permanently give you God on a plate then you will find that entheogens can only lead you to an experience with which you will make a determination of what is real.
Then that will necessarily change as you evolve, so there is no point in clinging to one idea or another but to allow them to move through you as they come so that something greater than doubt and judgment might move into your awareness.
The only reason people seek to find something other than what they experience without drugs is because they aren't satisfied with their present experience.
That would be part and parcel to why you get up in the morning. There is always more and there always will be more, but moving into more requires more than giving energy to judgments and doubt.

It would ultimately be in finding what is real in every scenario rather than what is wrong with it.

The only veil that exists is the one we put there in the beliefs we have created in the mind.
Temporarily distracting ourselves from our beliefs will not remove the beliefs. So as we stand in belief trying to remove them, we give them our attention or our energy giving them the strength to exist.

Any one can have an experience but what you follow in the thoughts of the mind directly affect all corresponding experiences of life. You can add something to your current backpack and carry more or at some point empty it to lighten the load so you can walk without those burdens of belief.
Taking drugs to alter consciousness does not fundamentally remove what you have put in the pack if it is not serving you it only temporarily rearranges things and then you face yourself and what you have stored in the pack.

What you focus on grows and if you focus on manipulating what you believe is insufficient, what you end up with is still the same only rearranged.

Evolution proceeds!

Western philosophy seemed at the time superficial, and eastern philosophy, while deep, was demonstrably wrong, so I pursued my own way.

Any commonality in the roots of eastern and western philosophy that are similar to Rickology?

Well I am imagining this aren't I?

The question is, how do you know how asleep you really are, and what are the possibilities of an even greater relationship with the universe that what is currently experienced? Many egotists are asleep yet they claim to be awake. Is there ever an end to awakening?

What do you think of Osho?

I recommend the book "Autobiography of a spiritually incorrect mystic" - he goes on about his enlightenment. Very interesting and experienced read!

No there is never any end to the comprehension of the universe and as such no reason to assume you are awake enough unless you have some finite projection of yourself and your relationship with it.


Are you? Or are you experiencing yourself imagine it?

I haven't read his book. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osho

"Osho taught that the greatest values in life are (in no specific order) awareness, love, meditation, celebration, creativity and laughter. He said that enlightenment is everyone's natural state [1], but that one is distracted from realising it--particularly by the human activity of thought, as well as by emotional ties to societal expectations, and consequent fears and inhibitions."

That statement harmonizes well with my views.

Quite a lot. It may be easier to specify my disagreements. Plato was just plain wrong. Ideas (software, for instance) do not exist (in an ontological sense). Ideas are always constructed physically (brain structure, print on a page, magnetic states on disk, etc.).

I also differ with the materialists in that I believe that consciousness is a substance, so perhaps I could be be called a super-materialist. A substance is a thing that has existence in an ontological sense.

I differ with the eastern view in that I do not believe there is any mechanism for storing information to transfer from one being to another to support any concept of reincarnation.

As far as ethics is concerned, I believe that the mono-theistic and other supernatural-oriented philosophies do a great harm when they say that killing someone is really sending him to a better (or justified) place. There is no greater harm than to kill. Killing is the destruction of the person, completely and forever.

I am a theist.

My family and I, we are so thankful to be together. We see our blessed state as grace from God. These are things we never deserved and could never earn, but God has graciously bestowed according to His will. We believe we are just as the worst of sinners, in that apart from God we could never obtain His favor, never earn His approval, never work to gain His good pleasure. But God sends grace out to all, wrapped in the ugly box of the gospel, giving life freely to those who thirst, to those who are weary, to those who are willing to leave all, in a crucified Savior. We see those who follow Christ as family members of the household of God, and those who do not follow, we see them as sinners just as we ourselves, to whom God's grace has always been extended. And we beckon them to come and join us as we wait for the appearing of God our Savior. To those who reject Christ we are patient with. We are like Stephen, yes like Christ, who, though being put to death by sinners, prayed that they may not be held to their sin but freed to experience the grace of God. We hate no one. But false teachers we do not bless. We do not welcome them into our homes. We do not let them speak without standing to oppose them with the gospel of God. We see the poor as our responsibility. We believe we must work what is good with our hands in order to give to those who have need. We believe God sees them just as he sees us, we are no different. We too are intrinsically poor. And so we love the poor with our possessions and our gifts and our money. Those things are nothing to us if we keep them for ourselves. And Christ, we see him as our Lord and Master. We follow him where he says we go. We obey his commandments and we hear his voice. If even our whole family should bid us come, eat, drink, and be merry, we should call them to repentance for their salvation, for this very night God will require their souls. We plead, even, that they may have life and escape the judgment of God. Oh yes, we believe that God will incur a great divide one day. We believe that all, great and small, who have put their faith in Him, who have loved His Son, will be welcomed into the kingdom of God, where the whole earth is filled with riches, where all shall be rich and hungry no more, thirsty no more, and no more pain shall be felt, but the glory of the God will fill all houses with treasuries and good gifts and food in abundance. We believe those who reject whatever light God has given of Himself to them, that they will be judged by that light, and they will all, great and small, be tormented by fire, separated from the God of glory and from the earth, and they will perish everlasting in the presence of Christ and His holy angels. Their own conscience will agree with God's judgment and accuse them. Eternity is at the door!


I am an atheist.

My family and I, we are so thankful, not to anyone, but just have grateful hearts, not to anyone, but we are so lucky to have what we have. We consider ourselves to have, by chance, a better life than many people. And we are so happy in our better lives. We do not believe in God. What a ridiculous notion. Only weak people need to believe in the idea of God and a life after. But we believe in this life and this life only. In fact, as I die my children will say, Father, we had such a wonderful time with you, well, you did hurt us sometimes, you could have been a better father, listened more, cared more for the things we were interested in, or led us better, but we don't hold anything against you, for you still were kind and generous and loving. Now that you are dying, we know your corpse will go into the ground and you will be no more. It was nice knowing you. There is no heaven so we will never meet again. There is no spiritual realm or Creator God to which we will return, so, bye. But dad, we're gonna keep having fun, we can't mourn forever at the loss of you. And so I will pass away, be forgotten. Which, I admit, is far better than being judged by a righteous God. Honestly I hate the idea. I don't want to be accountable for my wrongs. I don't want to think there is a God who sees all. I'd rather pass away and exist no more. I really do believe from nothing came everything, and to nothing everything will return. I know the equation doesn't make sense logically, but all those people who believe in miracles and the raising of dead, well, that's not logical! And the poor, well, they are less fortunate, all those children, boys and girls, at ages 4, 5, 6 and older, being sex slaves and having sex half a dozen times a day? Well, I'm sorry that is the kind of life they have to live. I understand they had no choice, but it was just bad luck for them. No, I don't believe there is a God to care for them. I don't believe a God will judge those who use their bodies and destroy their souls. No, but they may be judged in this life, by nature. But of those who aren't judged by nature, well, they should be happy, for they are lucky. But, it is true that those who have sex with these children are more fortunate. They certainly are entitled to more happiness than those less fortunate kids. Certainly natural selection takes its toll. Thank goodness we are not those children! Give money away to free them? No way! They are who they are and that's the way of evolution. I'm not responsible for bettering their lives. Thank no one but luck that we grew up in the homes we did,. I simply don't know what to say to those children. But since they are the weaker, evolution will get rid of them some day and we won't have to think about them. Do I believe they will have the opportunity to experience happiness in another life? Well, duh, no, this is all they get! If they have to have sex with adult men, even at such a young age, well, they should make the best of it! Perhaps they should just kill themselves and end the misery. It's likely there's no hope for them. No, of course I don't believe in good in evil. That would mean I believe in a law, some law that says what's good and bad. And since I don't believe in God or any kind of law giver like that, well, I don't believe in good or evil. What? Your wife and daughters were raped? Well that must have been frightening for them, but no, I can't accuse the rapists. They are free to do whatever they want. There is no right and wrong. There is only the great and small. And the great will rise some day. They haven't for the last 4,000 years, but they will someday. Oh I know Rome fell, and I know the sophisticated Greeks have perished, the Egyptians. But we know better, certainly. I've read enough books and thought things through enough, I've got this figured out. But I'll be dead soon anyway and I won't have to worry about rights or wrongs, truths or lies. It doesn't matter anyway. Life is chaos. It has no order, there is no meaning and there is no purpose. It's just this thing that has no consistency, no value. Love? No, I don't believe in love. that's just a chemical thing going on in the brain. Am I romantic? What's the point? I chose my wife because she seemed to be be, not beautiful, but a good kind of woman to have powerful children and advance my race. We're animals that's all we are. We're all about survival. We're not doing anything else. We're just surviving and eating food, surviving and trying to find pleasure. No, I don't believe there is a God of grace. I don't believe there is a God to give anything to anyone. We have to get things for ourselves. And if we have to step on people to do it, then by all means. It's about you and no one else. That's life. Deal with it.

This is wishful thinking and fantasy.


This shows that there is a hateful wish for vengeance in your heart.


This shows that you are mistaking non-belief for selfishness and that it's the kind of person you think you would be without your belief in your collective fantasy.

Why do you think that we should care about your believes? I personaly would greately recomend that you stop torturing yourself by way of religious fanatism through reasoning, by way of maybe education. What you can't see, you cannot prove. What happens after death is only speculation. Religious fanatism is the root of many of the social problems we are confronted with today. To me you are no more than the western version of a fundamentalist muslim. How ironic, isn't it? You are still young, man. Wake-up! If only you realized how silly and pathetic your posts make you look!
Blindly believing in some fary tales just because they are written in some book which is supposed to be the word of a god you can't even prove that exists. And, as T_L put it earlier, stop veering off topic, please. Wake-up or shut-up.

well, yes. And your post above confirms that I hit the nail on the head, that you're an ordinary bible belt american; a slow yokel with a bone to crack and a bible to thump.

It's unfortunate that you can only see things in black and white. You have such a narrow mind that it's beyond your imagination and understanding that there are alternative, and superior, worldviews to the two that you posted (and misrepresented, I might add). Do yourself a favor and read Spinoza, or if that's beyond your abilities, try Buddhism or the Upanishads. Your ignorance is absolutely appalling; I would suggest that you try to remedy it before making further adolescent posts or they may end up in the "Realm of the Ridiculous" board under the heading "Asinine Bleatings of a Bible-Thumper".

this reminds me of earlier today, two fairly attractive Christians trying to impose their beliefs onto me. they are obviously not experienced, as they find truth in words. i told them that i find truth in experience and they had nothing to say. people see what they want to see in the bible, it reflects many aspects of the ego. there is truth in it, but that is only if you have found truth within first.

I do not wish vengeance on people, I wish God would have glory and sin would be put in its rightful place. Sin is so disgusting. It mars the beauty of man's spirit. The Bible has some of the most amzing literature in the world. The book of Job for instance. The Song of Solomon. Ecclesiastes. I hope you will only recognize the great ocean it is. Man may not plumb its depths though he may spend a lifetime digging. Show me more a unique book and I will believe you. Well, show me a more unique man you can actually argue raised from the dead, show me a more accurate depiction of the human condition. The Bible is not wishful thinking fantasy. Take care of yourself.



I don't think that you should care about my beliefs. With a sigh I only depict the true nature of a man without God. An evolutionist cannot love that precious child who must have sex many times a day or die, and he or she may be only a few years old! The evolutionist has nothing to do or say but "you are weaker and will be weeded out of existence in time" How arrogant and wicked. But I know not many men will feel this way. The truth of the matter, evolutionist are hypocrites and cannot live and act according to their beliefs. Another exampe would be love. They act like they love their children, but we they have speaking events they deny love as anything but the result of the survival of the fittest. And I am not tortured except for this forum, for I am judged so quickly by many of you, and yet I am the religious fanatic? You pride yourselves and say "we see" but you are blind. You have no answers for your children. You have no truth to offer your grandchildren. You have no love for the hurting or the poor. But so quick to hatred. I admit and was well aware of my foolishness my last post. It was a sigh of emotion. My fairy tales are embedded in the Bible. The Bible has more authority, and the life of Christ more historical ground than any or all of your philosophical beliefs with regards to evolution. You ought to read Jonathan Edwards. But you are not interested in the existence of God, let alone His Son. That is clear. Indeed I am veering of topic now, because I am the heart of the issue of God in the magic mushroom. I shake the dust off my feet.

You are quick to judge, Lion! I don't feel hatred for you or anybody else for that matter. I try my very hardest everyday to live my days in harmony with my self and my fellow man. Love and understanding are my life mottos. I was raised a Christian like you and delved into the fanatic side of it during my childhood. But fortunatelly for me I have a very enquiring mind. Obviosly from your posts, I can deduct that you've never tried questioning your own beliefs for a change. You just follow where the herd goes. This is what makes me feel sorry for you. You are a prisoner of your own mind. Just like the people that live in a nut-house. Or the fools that strap themselves with explosives and blow themselves up in the name of your god (or is there more than one god?). Or the people that kill doctors in front of clinics in the name of god too. I hope this was your last post, really. And I really, sincerely wish you the best of luck in finding your true meaning in life.

why do you keep talking about sex with children? Are you a closet pedophile? Do I need to inform the authorities (in OK City) about you? You have sick thoughts, lions honey. Please seek professional psychiatric help immediately.


it's fine if you keep your foolish beliefs to yourself, but you insist on preaching to others about the absolute authority of the bible, and we've heard all this before ad nauseum, and have long ago rejected your brand of foolishness.

Just face the facts: You've been duped by religion. You're a sucker, but please don't insult other people's intelligence and spirituality by trying to convince them that your idiotic beliefs have any merit. They don't.

Almost as important, have you even tried the sacraments mentioned in these posts? Do you have an opinion on whether mystical states reached through entheogens are vald or not?

I find it intriguing that plants that induce dreams and belief are not taken seriously. They have conscious generating chemicals, sharing the same chemical pattern as many neurotransmitters (possibly incorrect term). This is evidence we evolved in my eyes, and those earlier states are keys to important creative states of mind and our true path in life. Maybe this is the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge. We are separated from the Tree of Life (immortality) as punishment, which can be visualise as the steps of evolution and cycles of life/death. There is knowledge in the bible, but the knowledge seems different from every angle. Unfortunately its so diluted and corrupted through revision and language, that the original idea and story could be absolutely anything. The beginning is the best place to start, and it just so happens its the most thought provoking of all, what exactly did this fruit do? God THREW us out of the garden, leaving a trail of knowledge behind - us being the material energy from the big bang, starting the process of life and thought. These subsequent waveforms is symbolised in the serpent, and the two polar opposites male and feminine, which allow the energy to travel (holy spirit?). This is visualised in my avatar, there are different truths in the bible

I don't think you wish vengeance, but I do think you wish to substantiate your own beliefs in righteousness.
Even tho you won't take responsibility for your own judgment, you do seem to believe God already holds judgment against those who do not give their attention to God according to the gospel interpreted.
I also think God has enough self esteem to not need the attention as much as some think, and certainly the compassion to observe every human choice without expectation and dissapointment.
Most don't seem to have the capacity to see humanity similar to a growing child, and without the need to push their own limitations and expectations onto them.

Sin is simply distorted thinking or idealism based on separation from God and false knowledge. People don't intentionally do wrong or try to do wrong they always think they are doing the best they can under the circumstances of perception. God does not fault humanity for this but those that blindly follow the false interpretations of Gods law do, through the judgments created by their own sin.
Spending time making comparisons of ones self in personal belief to another and making judgments of their belief is Sin.
It, (Sin) in a sense is not out of place, just there because people choose to make it real. Just as you do. It's a distraction from the reality of the true nature of God, but as a contrast to reality, part of the natural evolution to spiritual growth.


As Yoda said,"There is no try, only do." Being that you try so hard would only lead to the reflection that you wish to be in an ideal state of thought, feeling and action, and that would be something you make difficult because you feel God has expectations of you beyond your present experience.
Religion's put the fear in man so that he would be afraid of himself and his personal choices, making it "suck to be you."


Once again Sin is just misguided thinking, No parent would think their child disgusting for stumbling before he walks. But those that would judge themselves would easily judge others. They who judge themselves have not the capacity to open their eyes to the God in mans evolution and growth. It would suffice to say there is no beauty when the mind is distracted with judgment and self measure.


If this is true it would be safe to say man has not the capacity to take the bible and make an honest religion from it if he cannot in a single lifetime grasp it's meaning nor what is behind it.
One could only assume that anyone diving into it will find what he needs to find and will take that and make what he can.
In this, one might find the graciousness to stand aside when another comes along with their interpretation and allow them to live life with what they have gained as those who would wish to live their life with what they have gotten.
Unfortunately this is not the case. The inability of man to discover himself through such an elusive icon has only set man apart in argument to its meaning, because Man has not the capacity to live through belief without judgment. Nor the freedom to live without fear of condemnation and separation from the herd.

It took her long enough.