Is that because of something you read in the bible?

i disagree. an opaque ego is separation from unity consciousness.

it seems we have different interpretations of God and what the tree of knowledge is all about. I like Don Miguel Ruiz's and Osho's interpretations.

What an interesting thread, believe whatever you so wish.

What I said was God is connected to the manifest regardless of the ego.
Ego cannot disconnect God from the manifest. I wasn't speaking of conscious awareness.

man is separated from god, a hu-man is not.

when mind controls being, the ego is the one that is causing this separation. the fact that the mind is in control is the ego separating itself from source. a hu-man is one who is in control of mind as the flower of beingness has broken free from the cocoon of mind. when one has not realized ego there is separation from source, this is what I mean when I said "are we not the ones who have separated ourselves from him?". perhaps we are on different pages.

There is no thing separate from God.


The ego can never cause separation, when the mind is deluded by ego there is the idea of separation but the idea would not be founded on Truth.


perhaps it's the ego that seeks to compile the story, page by page.

You may say the Bible is for children, so the Bible says (Matt. 18:3), but the Bible says also it is for the base, the weak, and the foolish!

"The word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written, "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and the cleverness of the clever I will set aside." Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. For indeed Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but to those who are the called, but Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world, to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world, to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us the wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, "Let him who boasts, boast in the Lord."

As for that anthropomorphic God it espouses, why, he did clothe himself with humanity in the Lord Jesus Christ. Why not, like a father does for his children, descend to where we are?

I have a question for you. Do you have a personal relationship with God?



Yes and no. It is the result of the conclusions I have gathered from both the Bible and experience. Scripture is always infallibly sufficient to supply the necessary knowledge to meet man's spiritual need. Experience has a beautiful, powerful way of confirming truth already in the heart. Or what is false, but believed to be true, for that matter. Do you believe the Bible?



I did a little searching and couldn't find anything too disclosing. Would you mind summarizing their interpretations?




You're right. No thing is separate from God in the way that all things live, move, and have their being in Him. He upholds all things by the word of His power. (Heb. 1:3) Also, in the Psalms it stated that His Spirit was sent forth and they were created. But in another way all things are separate from God, for He by nature is separate from His creation. That is His transcendent, exalted position. Would you agree?

The bible comes from man, men lie. God didn't come to earth as Jesus, thats a way to give power to a 'false' prophet.

I would agree in describing the freedom of spirit to be multidimensional in appearance, and in the mechanical aspects of will, that we are free from a projection of an absolute direction, or a means to the end.
Like the cells in a body, which collectively make the body, each cell is made from the original, with everything the original has and had at the beginning of creation, and that we are consciously connected to the original.
We as an individual cell are capable of determining our place within the universe, (to become aware at many levels of conscious awareness) and as such are able to decide whether to be a part of the whole or separate ourselves from the whole by moving into thoughts of separation and belief.

Like a cancer that spreads to other cells we can infect/influence those around us with false information (if they are receptive to false information) and affect the reality of the whole by injecting individual experience that is in effect contrasting to union.
We can also work toward the natural resonance of the whole in Unity, and empower the whole by giving our energy to the whole. Whatever choices we make, it does not in effect alter the original cell in its original quality nor can it ever alter the natural law of union.
The thing is if we work toward the benefit of the whole, the whole eventually expands (in our experience) beyond the idea of the whole in body, and we realize the body as another cell which in turn is a part of another collective group of cells, which make a body which is another cell which.....you might get my drift.
The microcosm and macrocosm extends itself beyond imagination in any direction.

The original is like a seed that contains all possibility and as such must give life to all possibility, but in the state of being all possibility does not have to act out each and every scenario to be all possibility.
When the original moves itself into reality all possibility is exposed to conscious activity and that activity is not in itself bound to any type of action through perception in its movement toward an end result.
The end result being the return, or coming full circle to the awareness that we are still who we are/were after the journey, like throwing a thought out and then bringing it home to its origin, the thought may seem to have a mind of its own as it wanders into experience, but when the thought is dropped all that is left is that which created the thought.

We can witness a thought and realize/experience we are not the thought, but also, know we are not separate from it.


What were the Teachings of Jesus, flowed from the mouth of a man but where the thought originated was not of the man. What is in the bible was remembered by the disciples and recorded on paper as they heard it come from the mouth of Jesus.
What was translated by certain individuals from one language to another has to some degree been altered again from the original as it has been filtered through the nervous systems of scholarly individuals who were or were not, consciously aware of the original intent of the words in their place and time.
Jesus himself never wrote anything down as a rule, because everything he said was to the ones he spoke to; a message of what was relevant to the awakening of the human at that time.
I'm not discounting universal truths but often the conversations he had with individuals were sometimes taken literally as law, by generations of humans long after the crucifixion.

Certain Masters have said Buddha was the way or knowledge of conscious awareness and Jesus was the living example brought forth into the manifest.

It's not always effective to project an example of something if you do so out of context.
One example would be to make a rule such as "You have to make Jesus Christ your personal Saviour" to be saved yourself.
There isn't anything in the bible that says this, but I would suspect that interpretations of his teachings led others to believe that one must accept Jesus as God incarnate and to make themselves available to God as they can understand it, in any example one can grasp onto. This is not necessarily a lie if one sincerely believes, but it is superstitious.

By the way do you consider yourself as an example of a lie? Certainly you believe you do the best you can and do not consider yourself as a liar. Perhaps in making the general statement that men lie you were being a little hasty?

the bible thumpers prove once again to be devoid of reason and intellect. Instead of having a rational exchange, they resort to parroting the bible and follow it up with utterly irrelevant and superficial questions.


Why are you so gullible? You are a testament to the foolishness of man, insofar as you believe what you want without any use of your reasoning faculty that Nature provides us with. Did Nature give you lesser natural gifts and so, out of spite, you choose to believe in a fairy tail afterlife, and fairy tales of resurrection. so that you can degrade real life? As to having a personal relationship with God, I have gone beyond the personal and experienced that which you cannot comprehend or imagine. God is not a person, and insofar as people can delude themselves into believing they have a personal relationship with God, they should seek professional medical help because very likely they are displaying early symptoms of schizophrenia.

And btw, Jesus, if he existed, was merely a man, and as such, is no more or less the manifestation of God than anyone else. This desire to place him on a pedestal is idolatry and yet another testament of some people's weakness of requiring a spiritual crutch in order to imbue meaning to their otherwise meaningless lives. Go ahead, believe your delusions and fantasies to your heart's content, but just bear in mind that you forfeit any claims to Truth in doing so.

I'm not sure I understand the question. If you mean: "Do I believe in fary tales?" The answer is no. If you mean: "Do I believe in Astrology?" The answer is also no. But if what you really mean is: "Do I believe in the power of a book in keeping the ignorant subdued?" The answer is yes. But, let's examine the question at hand more closely. Read at your own risk: http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13719

in that context, true, but not true in the context in which i am speaking of. some are more separate from God than others, and some are more connected.


The ego can never cause separation, when the mind is deluded by ego there is the idea of separation but the idea would not be founded on Truth.

and that idea of separation is the separation i am speaking of. so many people i see and meet are deluded by the ego - they have not realized it. they are separated. this is not my idea of separation, this is truth because i observe it in others and in my past self.


perhaps it's the ego that seeks to compile the story, page by page.

everything everybody sez on these forums is ego.

There are different types of egos participating in this forum--I observe two cardinal classifications (there may be more) the curious ego, and the empirical ego.

everything is God.

That's a matter of opinion. I don't have much more to say but this is my 1000th post, so I just couldn't help myself. Happy anniversary, Flex. You found us one year and a day to the date.

for curiosities sake, here is a good read I came upon that may be of interest to some of you who do not know of "tobacco shamans" -

http://deoxy.org/wiki/Tobacco

Tobacco & Coca-Cola
And the Chocolate Fabric.

Are there any other way to 'fight' the invisible hypnotic spiders sucking our brains and feeding themselves by our anger?

Everything is the World with capital letter.

Let God himself tell to people who is he! OK?
I suggest to let him to speak by TV.
I think all with utmost care will consider his point of view on such a tentative subject.

You believe reality then is the multidimensional expression of God? and that yet every man, because of the level of his consciousness, the life given him from God, has an independent will that may or may be exercised to express the true nature of God's eternal and uncreated life? Hence, God is the reality of truth and life, and man are the mulifarious expressions of God, so long as they live in His life and truth. All this in varying measures. I would agree with you in this, if that is what you are saying.

That seems to be what you're saying with your body analogy, how each cell may or may not contribute to the whole by giving false information (which could be in the form of the spoken word or more subtly in the form of unspoken word by way of behavior, whether gesture or murder). But by the end you seem to be saying something far different with your thought analogy. There it seems to be you are saying that everything is God and working itself out till all possibility has been said and done, to no surprise of course since that is exactly what you said some 5 posts later.

So do you believe everything, true or false, is an expression of God (i.e. is God)?

On another topic, I'd like to address the statement you made to trojan_libido, saying "there isn't anything in the bible that says ['you have to make Jesus Christ your personal Saviour' to be saved."

I must be misunderstanding you, because in Acts 4:12 it states plain and simple, "there is no other name given under heaven by which we must be saved." In context, if you read the preceding two verses, the speaker is referring to Jesus Christ. The Lord also made it clear all throughout his ministry. The book of John is simply filled with "believing into the Son" for salvation, as spoken by the Lord himself. Paul also is very clear on this issue. The Bible does not use that exact wording, but what is meant by "make Jesus your Savior" is taught throughout its pages.



Well I am sorry, I thought you might be interested to read that portion of Scripture. I'm up for rational exchange all the way. My question "Do you have a personal relationship with God" was actually a curious inquiry into your life. In your previous post one may have taken the idea that you believed in God. I had wanted to know if the God you espouse for yourself is personal, wanting and giving love. But I see now you do not.

To comment on your statement "this desire to place him on a pedestal is idolatry and yet another testament of some peoples weakness of requiring a spiritual crutch in order to imbue meanig to their otherwise meaningless lives," I would like to say Yes and No.

Jesus Christ is Lord. God gave him that name, God endowed him with that honor. Therefore, at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess "Jesus is Lord" to the glory of God the Father. That is, apart from me or anyone, Jesus is on the pedestal. That was between him and God. The authority of the Bible speaks.

But I recognize and will admit a deep need within me, as I am a man, for meaning and purpose and value. The evening I walked from my desk to my bedside to give my life and hand my will to God was the day those needs were met. But I went because I loved him. Up until that point I was a hater of God. I hated the Lawgiver. And yet, peering into the gospel of God, where Jesus walks to give his life unto death for every man, for Ken, pierced the heart of me.

Also, Sir, I see you intend to hurt me with your accusations and your insults, but know that I have suffered by the words and judgments of God a far greater blow. He clearly infers that I am a sinner, morally bankrupt, ignorant of God, dead in my sins, lifeless and hopeless, desperately in need of God's salvation in the only one who bears His name, His Son, dying pitifully on the cross in my place, after being hit, scourged, scorned, and spat on, mocked, accused, and condemned, all in my stead! Could I be brought lower? For when I see the cross, I do not see my worth, I see the reality of my sin.

Whatever it takes to stand spotless and blameless before God on that Day...

I didn't know god had human characteristics.

Everyone has deep needs for meaning, purpose and value but that doesn't justify believing in extremist propaganda. At a fundamental level, you and people like you who are gullible enough to believe that a book is the Word of God, are no different from Islamic jihadists and other irrational extremists. Thankfully, natural selection and natural law will weed out your kind, quick. Your dead religion has few adherents (and the few it has are imbeciles) and is on its way to extinction. Look forward to that.

Consciousness in awareness of God, does not set God apart from God, so there is no thing that is not God. Whether someone exercises themselves with conscious awareness can be determined by someone who also is consciously aware. What any man expresses regardless of their level of consciousness is still God.


As I said above, only ego separates God from creation by qualifying God. Man in any expression is God. Whether one lives in surrender to the Supreme being or not is the measure of ones own awareness of reality.

Is there anywhere that God cannot be?
Truth and false truths are relative to conditions set in the beliefs of individuals.
Truth can be found in the relative false perceptions of reality because nothing can exist without the underlying truth of all that is.


No you weren't misunderstanding me.

In Matthew, Mark and Luke, Jesus made a comment after being asked," Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?." He (Jesus) said,
"Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God."
In Acts Peter is describing the foundation of enlightenment as taught by Jesus. The cornerstone of his Church so to speak.
It would be contradictory to the words of Jesus who said to those who would worship him as God that He was one with the Father and as such spoke the Truth of the Father.
Jesus made every effort to speak of the Christ within all men and that he was not set apart from man by God but that man set themselves apart from the Christ within him, themselves, and God.

Philippians 2
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
This is an example of Jesus' teachings, where he always exalted the Father in all men.

Here's something you might find interesting;
King James Version John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Here in John 1:7 The Bible says that God sends John that all men through John might believe.

This is more in context with the true meaning of Thru Jesus the Christed (anointed in conscious awareness) Thou shall know (of) God. Jesus was elevated in conscious awareness and as such was in complete surrender to the natural laws of the universe and Gods will, the expanding of all knowledge and relative reality to pure potential. To know God is to be one with the Father.



From King James Version: 2 John 1
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
This is simply the reality of the Christed or enlightened state of consciousness.
In the Teachings of Jesus there exists truth that abides in all men. To know God is to know what underlies all beliefs in separation from God.
He who abideth in the doctrine of Christ means he who lives in the world but not of it, he who is anointed with the stick of knowledge, he who is enlightened knows themselves in both the Father and the Son and lives as the Son of God.
The Church has in the past been corrupted by the ego to translate the original Teachings into a subservience of man to a symbol of God in Jesus the Christ. The only favored son of God. The priests have used this idol to create control over people.

They would say "Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior?" But what does this really mean to anyone? If one says yes the church then would state their list of rules in behavior and belief and judge man accordingly. This is what Jesus condemned the Pharisees for. They (the Pharisees) without knowing God themselves (without being conscious or Christed) had made a set of rules to live by and named themselves judge and interpreters of God. They used their rules to control the land even to the extent of murder in God's name.

King James Version John 10

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
19 There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
20 And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?
21 Others said, These are not the words of him that hath a devil. Can a devil open the eyes of the blind?
22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one. (A statement to Union, or unity consciousness)
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy;
and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

In the 15th thru 18th passage Jesus speaks of free will and choice. In his knowledge and awareness of God he can lay down or surrender the flesh to the spirit which is eternal. This is what is known as the True teaching of Jesus. This is what led to the power of miracles and to the resurrection itself. Because He lived from the foundation of everlasting spirit the material world and body became pliable to the commands of spirit.
In the last sentence Jesus asks the Pharisees not to look upon his form as (The) God but to see, or witness God as it flowed through him.
He was a clear vessel in which the illusions of earthly limitation were illuminated and seen for what they were. This he taught could be accomplished by anyone; he even taught Lazarus to raise the dead.

From King James Version John 1

45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Jesus foresaw the coming of an innocent Nathaniel and Philip brought him to Jesus, who told him that he knew he was coming. Nathaniel said "But of course, you are the son of God the King of Israel" as he was told by Philip. Jesus then said, "What, because I said so you believe me?" He then went on to describe that knowing comes from a greater vision than surface appearances and blind obedience to an Authority that is created by a majority in belief.

It would also be ignorant to assume that anyone who had not known of Jesus or Christianity, would be doomed to live in eternal damnation. Who could imagine a God who would judge his own creation for not being aware of a historic event, or an idol. Every man is the son of God and so every one can know their relationship with god.
Certain Self Righteous individuals would imagine themselves to be lucky enough to be in the right time and the right place to receive the blessing of God through the association of a man sometime in history.
Others, to require salvation be determined by how one would experience God in so many words and experiences isn't worthy of being called God like if they themselves cannot recognize God.

Jn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jn 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Here the last two sentences are references that speak of the reality that God cannot be contained in any vision but in John 6:46 it says that one who is one with god, will recognize when God is speaking thru another.

Consciousness recognizes Consciousness.
This is the only way one can surrender themselves to the Supreme Being or the Christ in Jesus Christ, by being Christed or in Union with God.
Anything other is a fantasy based on ideals that contain not the judgment of God but the judgment of ego.

God does not judge. But God does respond well to the recognition of God.

Those are some deep verses you got there Iesus.

nah, I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em; your insecurities and self-loathing are doing the rest. Good job.



And here you acknowledge being completely ignorant of God yet in spite of this, choose to preach to others about a personal God. Don't forget to add hypocrisy, deceit, bible-thumping, pride, ineptness and sloth to your list of sins.

The folowing is an excerpt from JJ Deweys website, I thought it might be pertinent to the blind faith people put into the bible without actually studying it from various angles.

Someone says..."For me it would be blasphemy to consider Christ anything less than the goodest most perfect creator God of the universe and to love Him and thank Him as such."

Since we are basically talking about the perfection of God let us first define "perfection" as it is usually used in relation to religious discussions.

Perfection: "A state of being, achievement or attainment which cannot be improved upon and from which no further progress or improvement is possible."

When this idea is applied to worshipped beings such as Jesus or Jehovah it is done with the idea that they can never make a mistake. Every word, action, movement and creation they make is flawless.

Basically these poor gods have nowhere to go because they have it all. They have no goals because to move toward a goal of any kind would take them away from the perfection they are now experiencing. They have nothing to learn because they are perfect in their learning. There is actually nothing even left for them to create because their creation is perfect since they are perfect.

Such a delusion about any living entity in the universe is a great example of the deception that the beast has fostered upon mankind. And the interesting thing about this idea is that it is found nowhere in the Bible, but he Beast creates the illusion for the masses that it is taught in the scriptures so control becomes that much easier.

Since the Beast uses even good things like the Bible as a tool of control it must make us think his most cherished teachings are in there whether they are or not.

So to sum it up the two sides of the argument is this:

ME: Ultimate Perfection is an illusion and actually undesirable. If we were to live in a state where there could not exist a goal to progress even higher then there would be no joy in living. The closest we get to perfection is what the Masters call "Relative Perfection." With relative perfection one can reach a state where the entity has a skill down pat so he becomes a reliable performer or he has achieved a particular goal to his satisfaction, but soon he finds another skill to master and another goal to achieve.

OTHERS: God and Jesus are both the ultimate perfection and there is nothing they can do to become more perfect. Period. To quote Gabrielle "it would be blasphemy to consider Christ (Jesus the entity) anything less than the goodest most perfect creator God of the universe..."

First let me say that to put Jesus, Buddha and other religious icons in their right place and perspective is not blasphemous as truth is the highest form of religion and is never blasphemous.
On the contrary to overstate their importance as the beast did with Jesus in the Nicene Creed IS blasphemous and needs correction in the religious world.
To put Jesus in his right place in the universe is a good thing, just as it would have been a good thing to put the emperor of Rome in his right place. Only by putting all things in their right place can the truth be seen. If one puts Jesus on even a higher pedestal than He belongs then all perception of Him and his words will be seen through a fog and high illusion will be the result.

Let's use some logic here. To believe that Jesus the entity created the trillions of inhabited worlds out there and then picked this little planet to visit with His presence would make this little planet pretty much the most important place in the universe. This type of thinking is very similar to ancient man who thought that the earth was the center of the universe and even the Sun moved around it.

Do you really think that of all the trillions of worlds - this is the most important or at least one out of a trillion in importance? You would have to think this way if Jesus, the entity, created the whole universe and yet chose this little planet to visit.

Most metaphysical teachers see it much differently than this old time religion explanation. Many wise teachers correctly see that there is an entity who most correctly or most perfectly (not ultimate perfection by any measure) demonstrates the Christ energy and consciousness that exists in all of us. For this little planet the entity who has best demonstrated this consciousness was Jesus.

Jesus however, is a current native to this planet Earth and has little to do with any other star systems in this galaxy let alone the billions of other galaxies of billions of stars in this little universe. All these other systems with inhabited worlds have their own teachers who represent the Son of God and teach as Sons of God. They are totally separate entities from Jesus as we understand 'separate" yet they are Jesus Christs to their worlds which merely means they are "anointed to save" their brothers and sisters. Remember the name Jesus Christ means "anointed to save" and there are billions of such beings so anointed.

Get ready for a shocker - something you will never learn in regular Bible class. I will now give you two Bible stories that definitely illustrate that the God of the Bible is not quote the epitome of perfection that the Beast has led you to believe.

STORY NUMBER ONE: JACOB AT PENIEL

The word "Israel" comes from the Hebrew YISRAEL. The first part of the word is derived from the prime root SARAH which literally means "to prevail" or to "have power". It is sometimes used to indicate a princely or royal power. The second half of the word is EL. This word is translated as "God" numerous times throughout the Old Testament. When it is not used in this connection it means "mighty" or "strong" and implies superhuman goodness or strength.

If we put these combinations together we have several possible meanings among which are: "To prevail as God", "to have royal power as God", or "to prevail through great strength and goodness". Some say that it should mean "prince of God", but this is a watered down euphemism designed to conform to orthodoxy.

In examining the first rendition ("to prevail as God") one may wonder why such a title would have been bestowed upon a man for surely man was not intended to prevail or have power as God. Is not this a bold title to assume?

It may seem bold, but it is also quite fitting, for did not Jacob prevail and have power over an angel of God, or possibly more than an angel? After the entity left it is written: "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel (Which means the "face or appearance of God): for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." Gen 32:30

Most religionists call this personage an angel, but the Bible does not. The scriptures call him two things. He is called "a man" (Gen 32:24) and "God (Gen 32:30). The amazing thing is that Jacob being a man prevailed over another person who was called a "God". Therefore, he was given a name which meant "to prevail as God" for only a God could overpower another God.

CONCLUSION: Obviously God was not a perfect wrestler because Jacob beat the hell out of him and made him cry "uncle." God was so impressed that he was bested by Jacob that he named him Israel - "to prevail as God."

STORY NUMBER TWO - MOSES OUTSMARTS GOD

Moses was indeed a true Israelite for he prevailed as a god as Jacob did and got the best of another ELOHIYM. God was dismayed at the Tribes of Israel because they disobeyed Him and built the golden calf and had decided to destroy them all. The problem God faced in destroying them is that it would interfere with his promise to Abraham and to fulfill this promise he had to keep some of the promised seed for breeding so he told Moses: "Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation." Ex 32:10

Moses did not want all of his labors with the people to have been in vain so he reasoned with God and told him how embarrassing it would be before the eyes of the Egyptians. They would think that there is something wrong with a god that would save a people just to destroy them in the wilderness.

Still God did not change his mind so Moses then made one of the boldest moves in the history of the planet and placed God in a corner and forced his hand.

Moses reminded God that he would not be able to completely fulfil his promise to Abraham if he destroyed the whole house of Israel and left Moses alone.

WHY?

Because if God destroyed all Israel but Moses then God could only bring the promised seed through Moses. Thus if God executed His plan of destruction He would then need the full cooperation of Moses to fulfill His promise to Abraham.

Now Moses still had his free will and threatened to not cooperate with God. This would make God a covenant breaker if he executed his plan on the Tribes. Thus through the powerful reasoning of Moses, God was forced to change his mind. It is written: "And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people." Exodus 32:14 (Read the whole chapter.)

CONCLUSION: God here obviously did not have a "perfect knowledge" or he would have known the mind of Moses. He didn't seem to have a clue that Moses would get the best of him in an argument or how Moses would respond to him. Moses actually caused God to "repent," Does a perfect being repent? In other words, God realized his direction was wrong and went another direction.

This is not the only place where God "repents." Other examples are:

God said: "It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king...And the Lord repented that He had made Saul king over Israel." I Sam. 15:ll&35. "and He repented that He made man" (Gen, 6;6) and He repented of thinking to destroy Nineveh (Jonah 3:10).

Even though the Bible clearly teaches that God has his own flaws on his plane the religions still teach that some perfect being is at the helm heading everything up in their particular religion. Why is this?

Think. What is the best way to control people? In other words, who are people most willing and eager to obey?

Would it be a God like the one who "repented" to Moses?

No.

Would it be a perfect God who never makes a mistake and his every word is infallible???

Yes, Definitely Yes.

Then once you get the people believing in such a God what is the next step?

ANSWER: Establish God's representative here on the earth who speaks his mind and will. Then once you have such a man (or woman) what do you have?

You then have a voice for yourself that is as potent as having the perfect God right down here on earth in your pocket!

Once you have the perfect God's words here on earth available for your use (even if they are wonderful words) you can then take those words and alter them (the way they have done with the Bible) and then use the perfect God's words through his perfect representative to create an absolute control over the people. The beast takes away the power of the common people to think because you do not question the words of a "perfect" God. When you no longer question you can then be herded about like a beast who only awaits the next push from his master to determine his direction. The trained beast does not think or question the command of his master - he merely obeys.

It's time the people of Light are finally taught the same principle that Moses understood. To be like Moses you must even question the perfection of God. Who knows? You may get him to change his mind as Moses did.

Does this mean we will be frustrated in our efforts to improve ourselves if we question the perfection of God???

NO. The answer is just the opposite. When I used to think Jesus was a perfect sterile being in the standard religious sense I felt discouraged about the possibility of being like him. I found Abraham Lincoln much more inspiring because he had flaws, but he rose above them. He was not perfect, but he turned out pretty good. This was someone I could sink my teeth into. Here was a man that set an example I could shoot for, but Jesus??? Well I had already made a lot of mistakes so being like the flawless Son of God like Jesus was out of the question.

Then when I found out the truth about Relative Perfection Jesus shot right up there at the top of my list where he belonged. I realized that I could be like him after all - I realized that He was a practical role model.

If you had an opportunity to play basketball and everyone else on the team was as talented as Michael Jordan, how long would you play even if the coach let you?

Not for long. There is just too much of gap between you and the other players. Instead of having joy from playing you would become depressed.

The standard view of Jesus and other religious icons takes the joy out of religion for the same reason. You are just never good enough.

I thank God in my heart every day I have escaped this delusion.

I just finished studying the life of John Kennedy. He had a lot of flaws, but I found many things about him that inspired me and made me aspire to higher things.

Winston Churchill has been a hero of mine yet he was overweight and smoked cigars. Does that make the fact that he almost single handedly stood up to Hitler any less inspiring to me?

No.

When we see any other life form as more or less than a spiritually equal brother we are just inviting the Beast to take control of our lives and we will be oblivious to what is happening as we are being manipulated.

There are three Greek words translated as "perfect" in the Bible. The two main ones are TELEIOO and AKRIBELA. AKRIBELA is the one equivalent to the way we use "perfect" in our English, especially the way people talk about God. However, in the Bible AKRIBELA was used in a negative way to describe those who crucified Jesus. The religious people of his day believed in AKRIBELA.

The scripture "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect." is a mistranslation in almost every Bible available. Why? Because the illusion of perfection is so important for the religious world to maintain.

In this scripture "perfect" is mistranslated from TELEIOO which means "Complete, finish and puts forth the idea of finishing a job or goal that you have."

Now let's translate this verse correctly as Jesus meant it:

"Therefore finish (or complete) the work you are given to do even as your Father in Heaven completes His."

Isn't the true rendering the more practical advice?

Again I will repeat: You have to read from a mistranslated Bible to teach the perfection of God or man. The doctrine of perfection, as the religious world understands it, is just not in there. If you do not believe me go to any standard Christian bookstore and buy a concordance (Strongs is the best) and look these words up. This knowledge is available to all the Bible believers.

What have we learned from our discussion of perfection?

We have learned that perfection is pretty much what we say it is and that in itself is as form of relative perfection. Relative to what definition we choose to apply.

I believe it was Glenys who expressed concern about putting our faith and reliance on God if He is not perfect in the absolute sense?

It is not good to put absolute faith in any being in the physical form whether it be Jesus, Buddha or Nero. The faith you must place should be on the Spirit of God within you that communicates with you through the point of Soul or interplay between Spirit and Matter - The Still Small Voice. The Spirit has this important ability. It can recognize truth and verify truth to whoever is seeking it with sincerity.

The receiver of such truth may distort it and use it imperfectly, but nevertheless the Spirit is ever diligent to make sure the point of truth is verified to us.

Now the Spirit is a Great Being who is Becoming on His own plane but relative to us he has achieved the "perfect" ability to verify truth in principle and on this you must put your trust.

I suspect that Moses looked within and even the words of the Great Jehovah were cast into doubt within his mind as he compared what he sensed within to the direction Jehovah was pursuing.

Did you notice that God did not condemn Moses for his doubting and defiance?. Instead he was the only Old Testament prophet who was called the "friend of God."

maybe all these different alien Jesus Christ's are really the same entity Jesus Christ alien traveling at warp speed to each of these worlds to proclaim great truths? I gotta say, this idea of alien Jesus Christs is somewhat hard to swallow given that we have no idea what alien life would look like; for all we know, one type of alien life could be a vast electromagnetic cloud covering a planet's surface, imbued with self-consciousness and reasoning abilities, in which the idea of Jesus Christ emerging seems far-fetched. But for alien life characterized by separate individual entities, the idea gains some plausibility, insofar as the jesus christ truths are relevant to that life form.

It wouldn't matter what life looks like, if it is conscious and has the ability to recognize value in itself and its association to another.
The alien Christ is something that could exist if it is just life that is self aware or at a level of coordinate comprehension that is connected to its own source and all life. That particular radiant energy is uplifting and attractive to the receptivity of love and the support of life and growth, or expansion of life.
Unless one is of a mind to believe that there is no other life other than what we experience on the material plane of existence on planet earth as it is scientifically known to date, there is a better than good chance that there is much more than the senses comprehend at simple levels of conscious awareness, and within the levels of basic comprehension.
The Universe is too big to rule out the possibility that life as we know it, and in form we haven't yet dreamed of, exists beyond the confines of the limited awareness we have of ourselves here on Earth.

I find that most are pretty self absorbed and give little attention to the struggles of mankind within our own cities to give any real thought to life beyond the boundaries of our own solar system unless it is a fantasy regarding some idea that a technologically advanced race might exist to come and save us from our own destructive tendencies.
That's pretty much the way religious people look at God or Jesus, as a savior that will come and take away all the evil that creates their discomfort.
So it stands to reason that those that don't believe in God would like to believe there is some advanced alien race that could come and rescue them from their technological ignorance.

Regardless of belief, and levels of experience that are still lacking fulfillment, there exists the inspiration to find knowledge and experience that exists beyond the current level one experiences.
I for one believe it can only be that way because it exists and is drawing us toward it like a moth to a flame.

just life that is self-aware?

this doesn't sound like something my puny mind could grasp.

Really? Then what was all that about awareness being aware of itself and having that experience?

I wouldn't know.

Sounds a bit like the extreme end of the Gaia hypothesis.

Maybe this will refresh your memory.

forgottenpresence
post Sep 16, 2007, 09:03 PM

Vastness

Imagine the sense of 'vastness' you experience when you gaze into the clear night sky. Now imagine that sense of vastness magnified a million-fold or more and you may begin to appreciate the type of expansion of perceptual spaces that occurs during this experience so that they become extremely vast, beyond anything 'normally' conceivable.
Body Expansion

The experience of one's 'body consciousness' extending outwards, usually far beyond one's immediate body. This particular mode of consciousness falls under the category of 'Cosmic Consciousness'. Normally, we have a 'body-consciousness', meaning we're conscious of our arms and legs, as our own and not somebody elses. 'Body Expansion' occurs when your 'body consciousness' extends beyond, usually far beyond, your immediate physical body. It's like your new body is your whole environment and that your 'old' body is simply a nexus or nodal point thru which your will exerts itself. Even during 'normal' consciousness, one can willfully enter into the proper mind-set for 'Body Expansion', though this may not work for everyone.
Ego-Death and the Experience of the 'Self'

The experience of the death of ones ego or 'self' can be frightening for some. I've experienced ego-death and near-death experiences many times (too many to count). Following ego-death, or the destruction of the individuals 'self', what remains is intense, non-reflective (or non-self-conscious) consciousness, the radiant 'Self' (presumably, this is the same 'Self' as revealed in ancient Eastern religious texts such as the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanashads, the same as experienced during states of 'Cosmic Consciousness', and the same as experienced by religious mystics). This is why such experiences are invariably mystical and religious. Through the death of ones 'self' and unveiling of the 'Self', one soon learns to identify oneself completely with the 'Self' thereafter, even if the ego subsequently re-crystallizes (it re-crystallizes, but remains 'transparent' in the sense of being able to see through it).

Special note for new coming users:

By now I use Manage Ignored Users Options.
Very useful option. I do strongly recommend to use that option to anybody and recommend that option to new coming users to safeguard from religious and pseudo - philosophic spamming.

this is from http://brainmeta.com/index.php?p=consciousness-expansion

My brother died of a heroin overdose last week. He was the 'black sheep' of the family, always in and out of prison, and would take any drug known to man simply for the hell of it. Obviously the family is upset, because despite these shortcomings he was a friendly bloke.

He was diagnosed with Hepatitis C six months ago, the hospital knew for 10 years but hadn't told him until recently when by chance another doctor picked up his notes. This sent him spiralling downwards into destruction. He began to look very ill very quickly. I tried several times to pull him out of the gutter, even trying ayuascha to try and change his mindset and goals (its common for all drug use to stop after using ayuascha) - obviously it didnt work. My responsible and spiritual side didn't rub off on him, he was too far gone.

The reason I'm saying this, and saying it in this thread, is simply to show the devastating effects that drugs can and do have. There is nothing you should take into your system without fully understanding the consequences. No one should underestimate addiction, to non-drugs also. I DO NOT condone heroin or cocaine use. I still use cannabis, but wish I didnt smoke it - that is the real evil. I will use hallucinogens til I die, because I have personally had the passion ignited from a single experience, this passion burned for over six months and I learned a lot. This passion IS god within, it gets things done. I just wish my brother could have understood what I was trying to do for him before he killed himself.

Hallucinogens can alter your life internally and your behaviour externally to others. Do not underestimate this power, it can help and heal, but it can also upset and cloud your judgement. Please don't take my pro-drug stance as pro-hippy, uneducated or just another pot head, I walk this line because I see so many on both sides of it - unaware they are isolated because of guilt and law. Knowledge and acceptance would save a lot of people.

This thread should be really be titled - "Does the key to the path of God lie within the mushroom?" - this is the real question I'd like to know. Sorry for the thread hijacking, but I had no idea where to put this, and from previous posts I really want to put the preconception that I use drugs and am proud of it into perspective. I recognise the need for peoples attitudes to change, whatever the catalyst may be.

My condolences to you and the loss of your brother.

17 days 19 hrs

My condolences Trojan. Let his soul find a good place.

Ultimate perfection...

Now I wonder, do you mean as for all a man is? Or do you mean all that
God is? Because, you see, the consciousness of man is experienced
where you and I sit and walk and stand -- THE EARTH. The sub and
unconsciousness of men may experience everything, but the center of
focus is the landscapes of interpersonal relationships and our
surroundings. What do your dreams consist of?

You and I are not created by God to float bodiless through the cities
of the unconscious and see the talking heads of imaginary entities.
We were not meant to blast through hyperspace and visit alien machine
elves. You and I are not meant to look up out into the stars
and wonder in the possibilities of other life and other Jesus
Christ's. There is one place for you and I, a focal point on which
all our experience blossoms, under the sun, upon the earth.

A perfect day is coming. It is where righteousness and peace and joy rule. These things will be immovable. Indeed, all shall be God's living, eternal glory on full-on display. Sin shall be no more. And there will be complete men and women walking the earth and seeing God in the face of the Lord Jesus Christ, first and foremost, and also in faces of one another.

If you want, I will teach you the Bible. As I see you do not understand the basics. I can tell, for Christ did not go around "exalting the Father in all men" and the "Christ within all men" is a totally extra-biblical concept. That is some Deepok Chopra or some other "Master" thing you're imposing onto the text. The fundamental law of interpretation is: interpret Scripture with Scripture.

Answer me this and just this Joesus, why did God create anything at all? And keep it simple, please. I do not have so much time.

Blast through hyperspace and visit the Machine Elves - isn't that a DMT experience?

How do you know what we're meant to do - the point of most philosophy is to work this out. Many people have committed suicide because they just don't understand what they're meant to do, life has no meaning to them, or to many more besides them. If you read nightrovers posts you'll see he's already 'proven' life is meaningless, although this discounts an individual experience which is the only one that matters when it comes down to it.

What is a fly meant to do, or a weed. How about a horse?

Other than those points I'm quite enjoying the fact theres someone out there more passionate about the Bible than Joesus. Let the battle commence!

Let me know when you have some time? I don't find God to be a simple analogy.

> Blast through hyperspace and visit the Machine Elves - isn't that a
> DMT experience?

I do really wonder how some people can ignore the Machine Elves (Transformers) if they are observable by so many individuals and thus should be an object of rather scientific than theological research. Hollywood even makes movies about them.

The reply button does not work again.

This is a very gutsy decision on your side to share this with us. Thank you and I'm sorry about your loss.



I see that you do not underestimate the legitimacy of altered states of mind. And your insight on it's legacy throughout mankind's history. I agree with you on these experiences as windows into the self, and its relation with reality. Whatever these states of concsiousness are name is a matter of choice. I can see your point about the "God within yourself" feeling. I am also with you as to the erroneous stand society has taken in regards to the availability of these substances that facilitate altered states of mind.
My only delemma lies within the paradox that stands between the colective and the individual experience of altered states. I mean, if these substances became readily available in present day society, without moral or legal attachments, what would society be like? Who should be allowed to take these substances legally, under what form and dosage, and under what parameters? Once taking LSD or the likes became socially acceptable, would that really help us enter a higher level of consciousness for the better? Or should a hierarchy be established in regards to who should and who shouldn't take them? And how would progress be recorded? It seems like, from a historic perspective, chemical induced altered states of mind have led us into mental territories that have been hard to explain and left for subjective and misinterpreted verification. It would seem to me as if chemically induced altered states of mind serve the consciousness only in as much as it shows a power potential factor. But they would seem to fall way short of showing the way into these fantastic possibilities that they entice us with.

//My only delemma lies within the paradox that stands between the colective and the individual experience of altered states. I mean, if these substances became readily available in present day society, without moral or legal attachments, what would society be like? Who should be allowed to take these substances legally, under what form and dosage, and under what parameters? Once taking LSD or the likes became socially acceptable, would that really help us enter a higher level of consciousness for the better? Or should a hierarchy be established in regards to who should and who shouldn't take them? And how would progress be recorded? It seems like, from a historic perspective, chemical induced altered states of mind have led us into mental territories that have been hard to explain and left for subjective and misinterpreted verification. It would seem to me as if chemically induced altered states of mind serve the consciousness only in as much as it shows a power potential factor. But they would seem to fall way short of showing the way into these fantastic possibilities that they entice us with. //

Very wise. I do salute you Code!

People in this section the my reply button does not work, in others it works. What goes on?

I think we need to chase the Golden Middle. This is the solution.
Hardly the druids way is the right way.

Compliments from you Enki are most welcome. I hold the content of your gray matter in high regards. Thank you very much. BTW, my reply button works just fine. Have you tried the page refresh button?

this sounds pretty dogmatic, coming from somone that said the following:


you claim ignorance of God yet proceed to bible-thump. Shame on you


clearly ignorance knows no bounds. Try reading Spinoza for an answer.

Exactly, there would always be people who took the freedom to the extreme. I really wouldn't condone LSD usage either, but mushroom use is something I feel can really 'earth' your soul and has very low addictive potential. LSD, however safe you believe it to be, is so powerful you could make the whole country trip on a few millilitres (or centi, not in the mood to look it up). This is a separate case completely, and could actually be used as a terrorist weapon by all accounts.

I found the TV documentary "Meet the Natives" on UK TV very amusing. The premise was they brought five natives from Tanna to the UK to live with 3 of our "tribes" - The working class, middle and upper class. They wanted to take snow home to grow for themselves, highly entertaining. But they lived a slow paced life of peace and community love. They smoke Kava as their choice of inebriation, and were a little concerned about our "fire water", the bitter they were given in a local pub.

The point is, no path is wrong, and no one has the right to pass judgement on anyone who does no harm to another, especially when our drugs of choice are beer, cigarettes and caffeine. All shown to be more dangerous than the LD50 of mushrooms. The drug classification and lack of knowledge only serves to isolate us from each other, it does not create a better world, but it does win elections unfortunately...

Anytime man begins to refine nature, we start to hit problems - fast. Cocoa leaves are virtually harmless when used in their raw state, refined coke is another matter.
I think its important to realise how much of our previous path has been guided by the dreams and visions of people who were able to enter these states naturally. This undeniable fact is crazy when most think hard on it. Yet its still a realm of myth and fantasy, untestable and ultimately linked with our soul and destiny.

The artifical route only serves to make believers from non-believers, bringing understanding to a lot of history and culture. I think it is inevitable that these experiences are now available to the people who want to experience. You don't have to experiment long before you find out about the hellish aspects of your own souls polarity, and this is the point most stand back with ultimate respect and leave it to the "shaman".

If you look into our culture, you'll see the nods and winks to these states. The Simpsons is littered with references to LSD, and this is watched by all our children. Many in very high positions have used various drugs, and I know of many people that speak highly of these states behind closed doors but would never admit it. I think as a society we're a little hypocritical, or blind to the reality we're weaving.

//Compliments from you Enki are most welcome. I hold the content of your gray matter in high regards. Thank you very much. BTW, my reply button works just fine. Have you tried the page refresh button?//

You are welcome.

The reply button does not work in this particular thread. I refreshed the page and clicked again the same effect, only fast reply button works. In other threads it works.

Looks like some bugs. I think it is time to go after those bugs and teach them a lesson.