Hi,
(Firstly I must apologize for my spelling, because English isn’t my native language.)
I have read a lot of topics and posts in this forum and I believe that here are many wise and enlightened people who maybe can help me with my problem.
I humbly ask any advice or directions from you in regards of my spiritual confusion or possibly my own ignorance.
I am young student, who few years earlier did one very strong psychedelic drug, thinking innocently it would be fun and new experience. I did some research about it, but didn’t really understand almost anything about the meaning and depth of this drug (acid).
So I invited my few of my friends from high school to my apartment to try it out. What we all did.
It resulted in total nightmare for me only, I had thousands of intense and paranoid thoughts/visions running throw my head which I just couldn't comprehend and severe anxiety. It lasted (12h) until my mind exhausted to a point of total dementia, being unable to understand nothing.
Same time all my old schoolmates walked around the apartment looking at stuff and talking, like there was nothing serious happening with them, probably it was true. But in my mind they "saw" something* in me that I cannot even admit to myself.
After this experience of what I almost didn’t understand anything, my connections with my old mates seemed somehow different. I didn’t know how to be nor act around them; to this time I do not therefore I almost don’t interact with them anymore.
Now it has past almost two years, and still I often recall this terrifying experience. I have tried to forget everything of it (unsuccessfully) and move along with my life, but the anxiety and paranoid thoughts (similar to that experience) accompany me with all new people I meet or situation I encounter. I had to move from the apartment where I lived with two other roommates, because it was to intense for me... to an apartment were I could be alone.
I can imagine that this text is very blurry and subjective, and by its nature doesn't belong in this forum. But I just want to understand why this schizophrenic/psychedelic experience (bad trip) happened to me?
This "experience" has created a new invisible world around me, about what I had no knowledge of before. And still my understandings of it is very blurred and confused.
Me biggest tormenting question is what this „trip“ taught to me? And that when i had such Bad experience, then is it wise to keep searching this truth about its meaning. Or maybe it is wise to left it all were it is, and not to try to understand it (maybe it could trigger schizophrenia or some other disorder)
If you have any books to suggest, advice to give, direction to point or even something to ask etc. I would be very grateful!
Thanks
Full Version: Expanding Consciousness... blessing or curse?
Hi bewildered,
Sorry to hear about your experience! That's a damn shame. I've taken acid a few times, and I've often felt quite freaked out by it, though nothing quite like what you seem to have experienced. I am now much less enthusiastic about acid.
It sounds as though you had an extremely intense bout of paranoia - you say you thought your friends saw something in you that you can't admit to yourself. It sounds as though you think your friends saw something terrible about you.
I've been paranoid a few times, on quite a few different drugs. On a few occasions the enlightened dancing children of the universe suddenly turned into stupid drugged-out animals with no souls. At that stage I had to go and chill out in my tent. The important thing, of which I was fortunately conscious throughout, was that it was all a construction of my mind. Consciously or unconsciously, or semiconsciously, I had constructed the attitude by which I then suffered.
In the same way, can you realise that your impressions, as real as they felt, probably didn't reflect the real state of things? It was mostly your imagination. If you can realise that, and realise that all those horrible thoughts were probably, in the ultimate analysis, illusions, then perhaps it will help you to let go of the experience, or at least to decide that it's not worth holding on to.
I couldn't tell you why the trip happened to you... but it's often said that the quality of a psychedelic trip depends upon 'set' and 'setting'. 'Set' refers to the state of your mind when you take the drug, and 'setting' refers to the environment in which you take it.
It is tempting to suppose that the mere fact that the impression arose at all is evidence of its own validity. According to this thesis: since you felt terrible about yourself (and with that amazing sense of clarity that acid induces) it follows that the terrible feeling is probably justified, and that you are, in some way that you can't admit to yourself, probably a terrible person. This approach has its usefulness, but in this argument it is misleading.
Bad experiences can arise for any reason. Perhaps you were a bit unstable, emotionally or mentally, at the time - a poor mental set. Perhaps you felt constrained or cornered by your environment - a poor environmental setting. Perhaps you unwittingly misinterpreted some unintentional gesture of your friend and that impression ballooned into a catastrophic paranoia - a simple mistake. I think that any of these explanations are more likely than the worst case explanation - that you felt terrible because you are terrible in some way.
These explanations might help you to let go of the paranoia, but they're unlikely to help with the problems you're still experiencing, what you describe as the invisible world around you. I personally have not heard of anything like that. But psychedelics have been known sometimes to cause neuroses or other psychological problems in people, and it's possible that it had this effect on you.
I would advise you to speak to a psychologist who has experience in the area. Talk through it and explore the issues. I think that your idea about "leaving it all where it is" and not trying to grasp the experience is probably your best idea. I don't think these experiences (even when they are pleasant, believe me!) can ever be grasped, and trying to do so tends to cause more anxiety and confusion.
I hope - and have confidence - that you will manage to accept the experience, decide that it need not ruin your peace of mind, work through it, let go of it, and be much happier. I wish you the very best!
Sorry to hear about your experience! That's a damn shame. I've taken acid a few times, and I've often felt quite freaked out by it, though nothing quite like what you seem to have experienced. I am now much less enthusiastic about acid.
It sounds as though you had an extremely intense bout of paranoia - you say you thought your friends saw something in you that you can't admit to yourself. It sounds as though you think your friends saw something terrible about you.
I've been paranoid a few times, on quite a few different drugs. On a few occasions the enlightened dancing children of the universe suddenly turned into stupid drugged-out animals with no souls. At that stage I had to go and chill out in my tent. The important thing, of which I was fortunately conscious throughout, was that it was all a construction of my mind. Consciously or unconsciously, or semiconsciously, I had constructed the attitude by which I then suffered.
In the same way, can you realise that your impressions, as real as they felt, probably didn't reflect the real state of things? It was mostly your imagination. If you can realise that, and realise that all those horrible thoughts were probably, in the ultimate analysis, illusions, then perhaps it will help you to let go of the experience, or at least to decide that it's not worth holding on to.
I couldn't tell you why the trip happened to you... but it's often said that the quality of a psychedelic trip depends upon 'set' and 'setting'. 'Set' refers to the state of your mind when you take the drug, and 'setting' refers to the environment in which you take it.
It is tempting to suppose that the mere fact that the impression arose at all is evidence of its own validity. According to this thesis: since you felt terrible about yourself (and with that amazing sense of clarity that acid induces) it follows that the terrible feeling is probably justified, and that you are, in some way that you can't admit to yourself, probably a terrible person. This approach has its usefulness, but in this argument it is misleading.
Bad experiences can arise for any reason. Perhaps you were a bit unstable, emotionally or mentally, at the time - a poor mental set. Perhaps you felt constrained or cornered by your environment - a poor environmental setting. Perhaps you unwittingly misinterpreted some unintentional gesture of your friend and that impression ballooned into a catastrophic paranoia - a simple mistake. I think that any of these explanations are more likely than the worst case explanation - that you felt terrible because you are terrible in some way.
These explanations might help you to let go of the paranoia, but they're unlikely to help with the problems you're still experiencing, what you describe as the invisible world around you. I personally have not heard of anything like that. But psychedelics have been known sometimes to cause neuroses or other psychological problems in people, and it's possible that it had this effect on you.
I would advise you to speak to a psychologist who has experience in the area. Talk through it and explore the issues. I think that your idea about "leaving it all where it is" and not trying to grasp the experience is probably your best idea. I don't think these experiences (even when they are pleasant, believe me!) can ever be grasped, and trying to do so tends to cause more anxiety and confusion.
I hope - and have confidence - that you will manage to accept the experience, decide that it need not ruin your peace of mind, work through it, let go of it, and be much happier. I wish you the very best!
I agree with Lao Tzu that it's best not to worry.
I'd like to add though that if you feel that some residual anxiety directly connected to the experience is left that you'd like to deal with, then you'd be best off with someone who knows about transpersonal psychology (you can search using that keyword in Google but don't go to just anyone - ask them what they know about psychedelics, how long they have meditated, stuff like that, and trust your intuition who sounds like they know what they know _first hand_ and will not just take your money and smile back or alternatively talk nothing but new age rhetoric).
I'd like to add though that if you feel that some residual anxiety directly connected to the experience is left that you'd like to deal with, then you'd be best off with someone who knows about transpersonal psychology (you can search using that keyword in Google but don't go to just anyone - ask them what they know about psychedelics, how long they have meditated, stuff like that, and trust your intuition who sounds like they know what they know _first hand_ and will not just take your money and smile back or alternatively talk nothing but new age rhetoric).
hmm? first see if you can define consciousness before you talk about whether is good to change it..
I would suggest trying it again, and again, and repeat untill you harness it's powers. I done alot of acid in my youth, did I say alot, well I meant a shitload. Sometimes you have bad trips, but sometimes they are amazing. Alot has to do with the present state of your mental activity when beginning a trip. Other factors include the type of place that you do it and the peolpe that you do it with.
C'mon trip like I do, now I trip without the drugs.
....but
there are always side effects of long term use....one time is not enough to cause what you are experiencing....I would suggest that it may be a result of some pscyhological conditions.
I was on an acid trip in this pic...I'm the bald one...a group of us went camping and my buddy lee, the hair bag in purple, brought 50 hits of acid with him....we arrived on friday @ 4:30 and, with 3 of us taking hits, there were none left Sunday morning. Best Camping experience I ever had....Calgary, Alberta 1994
....currently, I'm writing my MFA thesis dissertation and it revolves around expanding consciouness and paradigms of thought.
don't be afraid young padawan, that shit was rampant during the hippie epoch and look at them now, and how the world has evolved out of their expanded states of consciousness and hyper awareness.
acid....being hyperaware and hypersensitive in hyperspace.
...but it's not for eveyone....you need to be tough mentally!
C'mon trip like I do, now I trip without the drugs.
....but
there are always side effects of long term use....one time is not enough to cause what you are experiencing....I would suggest that it may be a result of some pscyhological conditions.
I was on an acid trip in this pic...I'm the bald one...a group of us went camping and my buddy lee, the hair bag in purple, brought 50 hits of acid with him....we arrived on friday @ 4:30 and, with 3 of us taking hits, there were none left Sunday morning. Best Camping experience I ever had....Calgary, Alberta 1994
....currently, I'm writing my MFA thesis dissertation and it revolves around expanding consciouness and paradigms of thought.
don't be afraid young padawan, that shit was rampant during the hippie epoch and look at them now, and how the world has evolved out of their expanded states of consciousness and hyper awareness.
acid....being hyperaware and hypersensitive in hyperspace.
...but it's not for eveyone....you need to be tough mentally!
Thank you all for replying and your encouraging advice!
Unfortunately there aren’t any psychologists in my country who is skilled in transpersonal psychology. These psychiatrists, who have treated people with similar cases of psychedelic induced anxiety or psychosis and to whom I went did only prescribed me xanax and said it is nothing more than Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (But I don’t tend to agree with them, although etiology and symptoms is in some extent similar.)
I recently read a self-help book by one psychoanalyst, who had quite broad understanding about the human subconscious and many of its aspects. He had been practicing transpersonal psychology and gestalt psychology with psychoanalysis for 30 years. In his book he strongly discourages using psychedelic drugs.
He said that entheogens can in some cases „open doors“ from person’s subconscious into his/her conscious. Opening these doors - that were initially created through personality development by his/her own mind to protect itself... Therefore changing perception of one’s conventional understanding of reality. He also added that if that „door“ has been opened than it stays open. It can be dimmed or brightend by sertain situation or setting. Also blockt by drugs (benzo’s etc) that make more harder to signals move from subcounsios to counsios (makeing harder to sense them).
And this correlates with my own belife that, this experience gave me a new perspective, which a didnt have before. And this „my“ new perspective allows me (unwillingly) to construe reality in somewhat different way, makeing me anxious by doing so...
Dose it has any sense in Your opinion?
Trying acid again and again, seems to me like extinguishing fire with fire... until I become totally disconnected from reality or even something worse.
Or maybe you are right Trip, you seem to be experienced in psychedelics but at same time all people cant be totally equal In matter of spiritual growth, it could depend on persons own mental capability.
Simple logic suggest: that if i had such bad experience, then doing it again would propably result in another bad experience...
But Trip have you ever had a „Bad trip“ yourself, or you talk about it in general?
Can the explanation of cause and outcome of „Bad trip“ be in this dialog in the beginning of Timothy Leary’s “Psychedelic manual” ???
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead
By Timothy Leary
"If you started in the wrong way," I said in answer to the
investigator's questions, "everything that happened would be a proof
of the conspiracy against you. It would all be self-validating. You
couldn't draw a breath without knowing it was part of the plot."
"So you think you know where madness lies?"
My answer was a convinced and heartfelt, "Yes."
"And you couldn't control it?"
"No I couldn't control it. If one began with fear and hate as the
major premise, one would have to go on the conclusion."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately there aren’t any psychologists in my country who is skilled in transpersonal psychology. These psychiatrists, who have treated people with similar cases of psychedelic induced anxiety or psychosis and to whom I went did only prescribed me xanax and said it is nothing more than Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. (But I don’t tend to agree with them, although etiology and symptoms is in some extent similar.)
I recently read a self-help book by one psychoanalyst, who had quite broad understanding about the human subconscious and many of its aspects. He had been practicing transpersonal psychology and gestalt psychology with psychoanalysis for 30 years. In his book he strongly discourages using psychedelic drugs.
He said that entheogens can in some cases „open doors“ from person’s subconscious into his/her conscious. Opening these doors - that were initially created through personality development by his/her own mind to protect itself... Therefore changing perception of one’s conventional understanding of reality. He also added that if that „door“ has been opened than it stays open. It can be dimmed or brightend by sertain situation or setting. Also blockt by drugs (benzo’s etc) that make more harder to signals move from subcounsios to counsios (makeing harder to sense them).
And this correlates with my own belife that, this experience gave me a new perspective, which a didnt have before. And this „my“ new perspective allows me (unwillingly) to construe reality in somewhat different way, makeing me anxious by doing so...
Dose it has any sense in Your opinion?
Trying acid again and again, seems to me like extinguishing fire with fire... until I become totally disconnected from reality or even something worse.
Or maybe you are right Trip, you seem to be experienced in psychedelics but at same time all people cant be totally equal In matter of spiritual growth, it could depend on persons own mental capability.
Simple logic suggest: that if i had such bad experience, then doing it again would propably result in another bad experience...
But Trip have you ever had a „Bad trip“ yourself, or you talk about it in general?
Can the explanation of cause and outcome of „Bad trip“ be in this dialog in the beginning of Timothy Leary’s “Psychedelic manual” ???
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A manual based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead
By Timothy Leary
"If you started in the wrong way," I said in answer to the
investigator's questions, "everything that happened would be a proof
of the conspiracy against you. It would all be self-validating. You
couldn't draw a breath without knowing it was part of the plot."
"So you think you know where madness lies?"
My answer was a convinced and heartfelt, "Yes."
"And you couldn't control it?"
"No I couldn't control it. If one began with fear and hate as the
major premise, one would have to go on the conclusion."
-------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE(Lao_Tzu @ Apr 25, 06:55 AM) 
Perhaps you were a bit unstable, emotionally or mentally, at the time - a poor mental set. Perhaps you felt constrained or cornered by your environment - a poor environmental setting. Perhaps you unwittingly misinterpreted some unintentional gesture of your friend and that impression ballooned into a catastrophic paranoia - a simple mistake.
Perhaps you have skeletons in your closet you need to bring out to the light (just a thought)!
I think I know what you mean bewildered soul. I had the same type of experience you had.
I'm still a nutter (not implying you are!) but less so because today I use technology to make my brain work better. I think you might find the thread if you search for "infrared". There are other things you can use, if you want to follow my path, like neurofeedback. I use technology because it's a relatively easy and powerful method compared to doing just therapy.
I'm still a nutter (not implying you are!) but less so because today I use technology to make my brain work better. I think you might find the thread if you search for "infrared". There are other things you can use, if you want to follow my path, like neurofeedback. I use technology because it's a relatively easy and powerful method compared to doing just therapy.
QUOTE
If you have any books to suggest, advice to give, direction to point or even something to ask etc. I would be very grateful!
Thanks
From the web
QUOTE
ENTITIES: Parasites of the Body of Energy, by Dr. Samuel Sagan, 1994. Clairvision School, PO Box 33, Roseville NSW 2069, Australia. [Not available through Amazon.com. Please contact the publisher.]
Stephen Larsen, Ph.D., brought this book to my attention. While in Australia, Stephen met Dr. Sagan and discovered that he was doing a form of SRT. He describes recovery of fragments, and he has also written a book on past life therapy. He calls the condition of fragmentation the "missing bits syndrome." He makes the statement: "On the astral level you are not a person, you are a mob." It is amazing how spirit brings through similar information in different ways to people across the world. Sagan compares his hypotheses on possession and fragmentation with the Chinese and Hindu systems. One of the eight sections of Ayurvedic medicine is devoted to the study of entities. Sagan teaches his facilitators, called connectors, a sort of inner vision, a process he terms ISIS. An excellent book, and a nice addition to the growing literature in the field of SRT.
Drugs can sometimes artifically lift the veil between the worlds of the physical and the non-physical. I say artificially because this is something that is open to anyone who wishes to develop the awareness of multidmensional realities.
The problem with drugs is that they create scars in the natural pathways to do this and it becomes more difficult to naturally open those pathways.
There is also the danger of the mind wandering into places it might not want to go.
There are entities that are born of fear and dark thoughts. Like living batteries they survive by sucking off of fear anger and hopelessness.
In Eastern Teachings they are called Rakshasas or Danavas or Asuras and they can attach themselves to the human ego.
There are some that have gone insane through the accidental discovery of these visions, but it is usually only out of ignorance that one dives more into fear and hopelessness rather than greater understanding of this phenomenon.
If you stop judging your experience and learn to put your awareness into something more expanding, then you will naturally create an environment that brings more love into your life rather than more fear.
Bewildered soul, I would suggest trying something different. You had a bad experience on acid and chances are, if you try it again under similar mindset, you will have the same experience. So, either try it again under a different environment and mindset (for instance, alone, listening to music, and relaxed), or try a different drug (ketamine or weed). Ketamine will give you a near death experience if you inject it intramuscularly and is one of the most powerful drugs in existence (more powerful than acid by far), whereas weed may or may not have an intense effect (on me it does and includes psychedelic effects, but on my friends, it just lets them chill out and relax).
Point being, you should do something about your negative experience in order to confront it head-on and get past it so you can move on in your life and understanding.
Point being, you should do something about your negative experience in order to confront it head-on and get past it so you can move on in your life and understanding.
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 26, 09:34 AM)
Point being, you should do something about your negative experience in order to confront it head-on and get past it so you can move on in your life and understanding.
I concur!
Btw Trip, nice that you wrote something about yourself.
meaning what exactly miracle whip?
....look, I was even stoking fires back in '94.
Thanks guys,
I think now that best idea for me is to strive towards: “Not to grasp the experience and stop judging it. And leaving it all where it is etc”
Probably it will be quite hard, because of my quite fragile state of mind, that even watching films such as “Contact” or “Constantine”. Can give me quite a sever anxiety and restlessness for entire day.
But “Learning to put my awareness into something more expanding” is a bit confusing to me… Although it seems to be very amiable and perspective advice!
What could it be, that would give me peace of mind from this confusion and anxiety?
Love? Hobbies? Art? Books? Movies? (Or am I looking at this in a wrong perspective)
Please help!
I think now that best idea for me is to strive towards: “Not to grasp the experience and stop judging it. And leaving it all where it is etc”
Probably it will be quite hard, because of my quite fragile state of mind, that even watching films such as “Contact” or “Constantine”. Can give me quite a sever anxiety and restlessness for entire day.
But “Learning to put my awareness into something more expanding” is a bit confusing to me… Although it seems to be very amiable and perspective advice!
What could it be, that would give me peace of mind from this confusion and anxiety?
Love? Hobbies? Art? Books? Movies? (Or am I looking at this in a wrong perspective)
Please help!
QUOTE(bewildered soul @ Apr 27, 05:17 PM)
Thanks guys,
I think now that best idea for me is to strive towards: “Not to grasp the experience and stop judging it. And leaving it all where it is etc”
Probably it will be quite hard, because of my quite fragile state of mind, that even watching films such as “Contact” or “Constantine”. Can give me quite a sever anxiety and restlessness for entire day.
But “Learning to put my awareness into something more expanding” is a bit confusing to me… Although it seems to be very amiable and perspective advice!
What could it be, that would give me peace of mind from this confusion and anxiety?
Love? Hobbies? Art? Books? Movies? (Or am I looking at this in a wrong perspective)
Please help!
Joseph Campbell used to say, "Follow your Bliss."
To some it means do whatever makes you happy, which in itself somewhat/kinda sorta/not really expands ones mind and senses temporarily, but the essence of the saying means to do something that expands the mind and the senses permanently. To expand beyond the stresses that are internalized by the mind which lead you to project the fear into future probabilities.
You have choices.
I find that following others choices rather than your own are choices made without much of a commitment.
This means they are choices made without much of a desire from the heart to do them.
Expanding consciousness doesn't mean that consciousness in and of itself needs anything, but our relationship with it could use some adjustment when we are so far removed from it that we suffer from the ignorance of our own lack of awareness.
I would say, this point in your life is a wake up call to seek something substantially more enlivening than following thoughts of fear.
However when one is running towards something there is much more of a chance in achieving success than when you are running away from something with no real goal in mind.
In my own experience, when I began searching for relief, I had no clue what it would look like or what was available, but by asking for help from the universe in all sincerity, opportunities began to come in the form of meeting people with their own stories to tell. I started reading books on metaphysics and seeking psychics for help to tell me what my life was all about and where I was going. Mostly I had a lot of expectations in someone handing me the cure for what ailed me until I finally found that it was inside me all the time. It was my choice, to do something with my life that would take my focus towards something that not only left the stress behind but was of interest to me.
I don't know if you saw the movie "City Slickers" but there was a part in the movie where Jack Palance who played Curly, turned to Mitch (Billy Crystal) and held up his finger and said there is only one thing that everyone is looking for. Throughout the movie Mitch ponders the one thing and at the end of the movie Curly tells him its what makes you happy, not the things that you think you have to do but what you really want to do.
People compromise themselves all the time, doing what they think they should do rather than what they really want to do, living the lives their parents dream, or being what we think others think we should be, living in fear of others judgment and our own lack of self worth.
You need to get in touch with yourself and find that one thing.
It's not a car
It's not clothes
It's not money
It's not anything material because the happiness that comes from material things fade as they become old or break.
It's not a relationship that is built on lack, where you believe you are not whole and someone fills the gaps because that can easily be taken from you and you are then left with your holes.
In fact the holes are just stresses wrapped around beleifs in lack or separation from the whole part of you that lay submerged beneath the surface of your beliefs and experiences of who and what you think you are.
I don't practice TM but there was something Maharishi Mahesh Yogi said to a University student at a public forum back in the 60's.
The student was concerned that he was trying to delude humanity into thinking they didn't have to be concerned with values regarding the governmental social systems.
Maharishi taught that suffering is created out of ignorance. People starve because they believe starvation is real, they believe that some are more priveledged than others, that people are victims to circumstance.
The University student asked the question, "Maharishi, you believe that it is more important to teach the poor how to meditate than to feed them, why?"
To which Maharishi replied, bouncing in his seat with a big smile, "If you teach a hungry man how to meditate he will be a Happy hungry man, he will have more energy and knowledge of who he is and not wallow in thoughts of being a victim without a choice to make something of his life. He is more likely to change his life by doing something rather than to do nothing about it."
If you believe you have no choice or your mind keeps jumping back into the past where you dwell on what you don't want then there is no movement outside of the box of repetition. The mind takes the past memories and projects them into potential futures. You nail one foot to the floor and as the other one moves you try to convince yourself that you are experiencing something different.
Expand your mind, take what you have experienced and use it as a gift. It was created by you so you can know what you don't want and then do something different.
Learn to recognise the things that form the nail that holds you to the small circle of thoughts by expanding your mind and your awareness.
Ah why do I get the impression were all about to take a trip back in BrainMeta time lol. I have the feeling this is leading to the good old awareness, self-actualization discussion that Trip talked about long ago. Hmm I think I still have my models of human awarness/state of mind somewhere.. (scurries off to find them)
Bad trips? Get some answers from the vaults of LSD
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml
And from its inventor; who, by the way, just turned 100 this year:
http://www.hofmann.org/
And here is his accounts dated from 1943 on one of the first LSD ever taken by a human being, taken from erowid.org:
following is a fairly long, but very informative
account of one of the first documented LSD trips done by
Albert Hofmann in 1943:
"4/19/43 16:20: 0.5 cc of 1/2 promil aqueous
solution of diethylamide tartrate orally=0.25 mg
tartrate. Taken diluted with about 10 cc water.
Tasteless.
17:00: Beginning dizziness, feeling of anxiety,
visual distortions, symptoms of paralysis, desire
to laugh.
Supplement of 4/21: Home by bicycle. From 18:00-
ca.20:00 most severe crisis. (See special
report.)
* * * *
Here the notes in my laboratory journal
cease. I was able to write the last words only
with great effort. By now it was already clear to
me that LSD had been the cause of the remarkable
experience of the previous Friday, for the altered
perceptions were of the same type as before, only
much more intense. I had to struggle to speak
intelligibly. I asked my laboratory assistant,
who was informed of the self-experiment, to escort
me home. We went by bicycle, no automobile
available because of wartime restrictions on their
use. On the way home, my condition began to
assume threatening forms. Everything in my field
of vision wavered and was distorted as if seen in
a curved mirror. I also had the sensation of
being unable to move from the spot. Nevertheless,
my assistant later told me that we had traveled
very rapidly. Finally, we arrived at home safe
and sound, and I was just barely capable of asking
my companion to summon our family doctor and
request milk from the neighbors.
[...]
The dizziness and sensation of fainting
became so strong at times that I could no longer
hold myself erect, and had to lie down on a sofa.
My surroundings had now transformed themselves in
more terrifying ways. Everything in the room spun
around, and the familiar objects and pieces of
furniture assumed grotesque, threatening forms.
They were in continuous motion, animated, as if
driven by an inner restlessness. The lady next
door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk
-- in the course of the evening I drank more than
two liters. She was no longer Mrs. R., but rather
a malevolent, insidious witch with a colored mask.
Even worse than these demonic transformations
of the outer world, were the alterations that I
perceived in myself, in my inner being. Every
exertion of my will, every attempt to put an end
to the disintegration of the outer world and the
dissolution of my ego, seemed to be a wasted
effort. A demon had invaded me, had taken
possession of my body, mind, and soul. I jumped
up and screamed, trying to free myself from him,
but then sank down again and lay helpless on the
sofa. The substance, with which I wanted to
experiment, had vanquished me. It was the demon
that scornfully triumphed over my will. I was
seized by the dreadful fear of going insane. I
was taken to another world, another place, another
time. My body seemed to be without sensation,
lifeless, strange. Was I dying? Was this the
transition? At times I believed myself to be
outside my body, and then perceived clearly, as an
outside observer, the complete tragedy of my
situation. I had not even taken leave of my
family (my wife, with our three children had
traveled that day to visit her parents, in
Lucerne). Would they ever understand that I had
not experimented thoughtlessly, irresponsibly, but
rather with the utmost caution, and that such a
result was in no way foreseeable? My fear and
despair intensified, not only because a young
family should lose its father, but also because I
dreaded leaving my chemical research work, which
meant so much to me, unfinished in the midst of
fruitful, promising development. Another
reflection took shape, an idea full of bitter
irony: if I was now forced to leave this world
prematurely, it was because of this lysergic acid
diethylamide that I myself had brought forth into
the world.
By the time the doctor arrived, the climax of
my despondent condition had already passed. My
laboratory assistant informed him about my self-
experiment, as I myself was not yet able to
formulate a coherent sentence. He shook his head
in perplexity, after my attempts to describe the
mortal danger that threatened my body. He could
detect no abnormal symptoms other than extremely
dilated pupils. Pulse, blood pressure, breathing
were all normal. He saw no reason to prescribe
any medication. Instead he conveyed me to my bed
and stood watch over me. Slowly I came back from
a weird, unfamiliar world to reassuring everyday
reality. The horror softened and gave way to a
feeling of good fortune and gratitude, the more
normal perceptions and thoughts returned, and I
became more confident that the danger of insanity
was conclusively past.
Now, little by little I could begin to enjoy
the unprecedented colors and plays of shapes that
persisted behind my closed eyes. Kaleidoscopic,
fantastic images surged in on me, alternating,
variegated, opening and then closing themselves in
circles and spirals, exploding in colored
fountains, rearranging and hybridizing themselves
in constant flux. It was particularly remarkable
how every acoustic perception, such as the sound
of a door handle or a passing automobile, became
transformed into optical perceptions. Every sound
generated a vividly changing image, with its own
consistent form and color.
Late in the evening my wife returned from
Lucerne. Someone had informed her by telephone
that I was suffering a mysterious breakdown. She
had returned home at once, leaving the children
behind with her parents. By now, I had recovered
myself sufficiently to tell her what had happened.
Exhausted, I then slept, to awake next
morning refreshed, with a clear head, though still
somewhat tired physically. A sensation of well-
being and renewed life flowed through me.
Breakfast tasted delicious and gave me
extraordinary pleasure. When I later walked into
the garden, in which the sun shone now after a
spring rain, everything glistened and sparkled in
fresh light. The world was as if newly created.
All my senses vibrated in a condition of highest
sensitivity, which persisted for the entire day."
(Hofmann, 1983).
So, you see? Bad trips started from the very begining!
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd.shtml
And from its inventor; who, by the way, just turned 100 this year:
http://www.hofmann.org/
And here is his accounts dated from 1943 on one of the first LSD ever taken by a human being, taken from erowid.org:
QUOTE
following is a fairly long, but very informative
account of one of the first documented LSD trips done by
Albert Hofmann in 1943:
"4/19/43 16:20: 0.5 cc of 1/2 promil aqueous
solution of diethylamide tartrate orally=0.25 mg
tartrate. Taken diluted with about 10 cc water.
Tasteless.
17:00: Beginning dizziness, feeling of anxiety,
visual distortions, symptoms of paralysis, desire
to laugh.
Supplement of 4/21: Home by bicycle. From 18:00-
ca.20:00 most severe crisis. (See special
report.)
* * * *
Here the notes in my laboratory journal
cease. I was able to write the last words only
with great effort. By now it was already clear to
me that LSD had been the cause of the remarkable
experience of the previous Friday, for the altered
perceptions were of the same type as before, only
much more intense. I had to struggle to speak
intelligibly. I asked my laboratory assistant,
who was informed of the self-experiment, to escort
me home. We went by bicycle, no automobile
available because of wartime restrictions on their
use. On the way home, my condition began to
assume threatening forms. Everything in my field
of vision wavered and was distorted as if seen in
a curved mirror. I also had the sensation of
being unable to move from the spot. Nevertheless,
my assistant later told me that we had traveled
very rapidly. Finally, we arrived at home safe
and sound, and I was just barely capable of asking
my companion to summon our family doctor and
request milk from the neighbors.
[...]
The dizziness and sensation of fainting
became so strong at times that I could no longer
hold myself erect, and had to lie down on a sofa.
My surroundings had now transformed themselves in
more terrifying ways. Everything in the room spun
around, and the familiar objects and pieces of
furniture assumed grotesque, threatening forms.
They were in continuous motion, animated, as if
driven by an inner restlessness. The lady next
door, whom I scarcely recognized, brought me milk
-- in the course of the evening I drank more than
two liters. She was no longer Mrs. R., but rather
a malevolent, insidious witch with a colored mask.
Even worse than these demonic transformations
of the outer world, were the alterations that I
perceived in myself, in my inner being. Every
exertion of my will, every attempt to put an end
to the disintegration of the outer world and the
dissolution of my ego, seemed to be a wasted
effort. A demon had invaded me, had taken
possession of my body, mind, and soul. I jumped
up and screamed, trying to free myself from him,
but then sank down again and lay helpless on the
sofa. The substance, with which I wanted to
experiment, had vanquished me. It was the demon
that scornfully triumphed over my will. I was
seized by the dreadful fear of going insane. I
was taken to another world, another place, another
time. My body seemed to be without sensation,
lifeless, strange. Was I dying? Was this the
transition? At times I believed myself to be
outside my body, and then perceived clearly, as an
outside observer, the complete tragedy of my
situation. I had not even taken leave of my
family (my wife, with our three children had
traveled that day to visit her parents, in
Lucerne). Would they ever understand that I had
not experimented thoughtlessly, irresponsibly, but
rather with the utmost caution, and that such a
result was in no way foreseeable? My fear and
despair intensified, not only because a young
family should lose its father, but also because I
dreaded leaving my chemical research work, which
meant so much to me, unfinished in the midst of
fruitful, promising development. Another
reflection took shape, an idea full of bitter
irony: if I was now forced to leave this world
prematurely, it was because of this lysergic acid
diethylamide that I myself had brought forth into
the world.
By the time the doctor arrived, the climax of
my despondent condition had already passed. My
laboratory assistant informed him about my self-
experiment, as I myself was not yet able to
formulate a coherent sentence. He shook his head
in perplexity, after my attempts to describe the
mortal danger that threatened my body. He could
detect no abnormal symptoms other than extremely
dilated pupils. Pulse, blood pressure, breathing
were all normal. He saw no reason to prescribe
any medication. Instead he conveyed me to my bed
and stood watch over me. Slowly I came back from
a weird, unfamiliar world to reassuring everyday
reality. The horror softened and gave way to a
feeling of good fortune and gratitude, the more
normal perceptions and thoughts returned, and I
became more confident that the danger of insanity
was conclusively past.
Now, little by little I could begin to enjoy
the unprecedented colors and plays of shapes that
persisted behind my closed eyes. Kaleidoscopic,
fantastic images surged in on me, alternating,
variegated, opening and then closing themselves in
circles and spirals, exploding in colored
fountains, rearranging and hybridizing themselves
in constant flux. It was particularly remarkable
how every acoustic perception, such as the sound
of a door handle or a passing automobile, became
transformed into optical perceptions. Every sound
generated a vividly changing image, with its own
consistent form and color.
Late in the evening my wife returned from
Lucerne. Someone had informed her by telephone
that I was suffering a mysterious breakdown. She
had returned home at once, leaving the children
behind with her parents. By now, I had recovered
myself sufficiently to tell her what had happened.
Exhausted, I then slept, to awake next
morning refreshed, with a clear head, though still
somewhat tired physically. A sensation of well-
being and renewed life flowed through me.
Breakfast tasted delicious and gave me
extraordinary pleasure. When I later walked into
the garden, in which the sun shone now after a
spring rain, everything glistened and sparkled in
fresh light. The world was as if newly created.
All my senses vibrated in a condition of highest
sensitivity, which persisted for the entire day."
(Hofmann, 1983).
So, you see? Bad trips started from the very begining!
Who was it that said that we were all simply 'learning to fly'?
Albert Hofmann: LSD - My Problem Child
5.7. Meeting with Timothy Leary
"My most serious remonstrance to Leary, however, concerned the propagation of LSD use among juveniles. Leary did not attempt to refute my opinions about the particular dangers of LSD for youth."
I suggest that Albert had a point! Especially in this particular case...
5.7. Meeting with Timothy Leary
"My most serious remonstrance to Leary, however, concerned the propagation of LSD use among juveniles. Leary did not attempt to refute my opinions about the particular dangers of LSD for youth."
I suggest that Albert had a point! Especially in this particular case...
QUOTE(maximus242 @ Apr 27, 01:38 PM)
....about to take a trip back in BrainMeta time lol....
....take a trip? Yes always transcending various spatio temporal frames of reference to other past dimensions via one cultural space-time wormhole/portal or another via reactivation by current mental activity....as in the realm of human capacity, capabillity, and possibility.
Those damn post-modern echoes.
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 27, 10:45 PM)
Albert Hofmann: LSD - My Problem Child
5.7. Meeting with Timothy Leary
"My most serious remonstrance to Leary, however, concerned the propagation of LSD use among juveniles. Leary did not attempt to refute my opinions about the particular dangers of LSD for youth."
I suggest that Albert had a point! Especially in this particular case...
What are the dangers?
....dangers?
Becoming enlightened!
Becoming enlightened!
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Apr 28, 08:50 PM)
....dangers?
Becoming enlightened!
Would you give acid to your own juvenile child?
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Apr 27, 02:07 AM)
meaning what exactly miracle whip?
How wxactly do you want me to answer?
I don't watch TV so it's nice to read about someone's adventures.
QUOTE(Guest @ Apr 29, 02:42 AM)
QUOTE(Trip like I do @ Apr 28, 08:50 PM)
....dangers?
Becoming enlightened!
Would you give acid to your own juvenile child?
never....
Eh I dono, something about eating battery acid doesnt appeal to me..
lol....me neither.
In regards to city slickers, while well aware of the original poster. Taking drugs like that ,is not a good thing.
I happen to read something that was the result of personal research, about the deeper insights that drug inducement offered. The thoughts manifest. While he thought this wonderful, what I read never made any sense. Gibberish. I learnt this quite early, thankfully, and even while later life open my eyes to what mysticism might have entailed by tuteluge( casteneda), it was not without such guidance that one should continue with such things.
It can be struggle enough , to try and make sense of things, then to do things in this way, and complicate your life. Learn to build confidence in yourself. Learn to be open and listen. Learn, and educate yourself about people, while you learn about yourself.
Journalling might help to recognize patterns of thinking, as the years pass. See what nuances in your writing you repeat often. Why? The innate style discovered in your writing.
While my own insights might not always be right, I give her a darn good try. Learning is like that.
Giving LSD to a child would violate one of Leary's two laws for the psychedelic age: never expand the consciousness of another without his permission. The other law is never prevent another from expanding his own consciousness.
I have heard it said that "there are no bad trips, just unpleasant experience", that in the grand scheme of things, every experience helps us to grow. Hoffmann's account is a perfect example.
I have heard it said that "there are no bad trips, just unpleasant experience", that in the grand scheme of things, every experience helps us to grow. Hoffmann's account is a perfect example.
Sometimes we have very smart children who speak. As a child , yes.
As a Father I realize that children will grow up, have grown up. I understand independancy is encouraged to meet life head on. With all their faculties, independant of the research, and under the care of their parents, the second law cannot be applied in these cases?
Dr. Timothy Leary's LSD Research
Would you allow this expansion without ensuring your children have been given the "responsibility of self,"encouraged as they grow, as they go on with their own lives one day? While I do not live in a glass bubble. I would point out that given the assurance of a heathy and producive life under the auspice of family, has it's rewards, but again, all life is not like this.
Such drug journies should not be done without understanding the consequences. I know you would agree with this?
"Freeing the nervous system," without understanding it's move into life's thoughts, manifestations of stress, and opinions of our youth without understanding the effect in thought processes, without guidance, would be disastrous for our youth. They should understand the long range effect of this?
Yet as you say there will be experiences. What's done, is done. Language and symbology, has to be translated and if it can't be translated and left in it's form, what use is the transcendance of thought?
I am reminded of the isolation chambers I used to hear about, and the floating that had gone on to heighten other senses. Of course horror stories were made of these as well, yet in this light, how well the student and child to experiment in this area and learn first? Interpret dream time and see how it applies to their daily life, first?
hmmmm......
As a Father I realize that children will grow up, have grown up. I understand independancy is encouraged to meet life head on. With all their faculties, independant of the research, and under the care of their parents, the second law cannot be applied in these cases?
Dr. Timothy Leary's LSD Research
QUOTE
Of course, the drug does not produce the transcendent experience. It merely acts as a chemical key - it opens the mind, frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures.
Would you allow this expansion without ensuring your children have been given the "responsibility of self,"encouraged as they grow, as they go on with their own lives one day? While I do not live in a glass bubble. I would point out that given the assurance of a heathy and producive life under the auspice of family, has it's rewards, but again, all life is not like this.
QUOTE
What are "bad trips"?
Having a bad psychological reaction to LSD and similar drugs is common. The scary sensations may last a few minutes or several hours and be mildly frightening or terrifying. The user may experience panic, confusion, suspiciousness, anxiety, feelings of helplessness, and loss of control. Sometimes taking a hallucinogen such as LSD can unmask mental or emotional problems that were previously unknown to the user. Flashbacks, in which the person experiences a drug's effects without having to take the drug again, can occur.
Having a bad psychological reaction to LSD and similar drugs is common. The scary sensations may last a few minutes or several hours and be mildly frightening or terrifying. The user may experience panic, confusion, suspiciousness, anxiety, feelings of helplessness, and loss of control. Sometimes taking a hallucinogen such as LSD can unmask mental or emotional problems that were previously unknown to the user. Flashbacks, in which the person experiences a drug's effects without having to take the drug again, can occur.
Such drug journies should not be done without understanding the consequences. I know you would agree with this?
"Freeing the nervous system," without understanding it's move into life's thoughts, manifestations of stress, and opinions of our youth without understanding the effect in thought processes, without guidance, would be disastrous for our youth. They should understand the long range effect of this?
Yet as you say there will be experiences. What's done, is done. Language and symbology, has to be translated and if it can't be translated and left in it's form, what use is the transcendance of thought?
I am reminded of the isolation chambers I used to hear about, and the floating that had gone on to heighten other senses. Of course horror stories were made of these as well, yet in this light, how well the student and child to experiment in this area and learn first? Interpret dream time and see how it applies to their daily life, first?
hmmmm......
QUOTE(Rick @ May 02, 05:18 PM)
Giving LSD to a child would violate one of Leary's two laws for the psychedelic age: never expand the consciousness of another without his permission. The other law is never prevent another from expanding his own consciousness.
Why do many describe these experiences as "expanding consciousness" when it is likely that more is closed off than opened, especially with LSD?
Perhaps the experience appears that way to many. On what do you base your estimate of probability?
Quoting from the page linked at the top of the page:
"A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc."
Did you read it?
Quoting from the page linked at the top of the page:
"A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc."
Did you read it?
Hmm that would be weird to have sensory deprivation 
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 02, 03:51 PM)
QUOTE(Rick @ May 02, 05:18 PM)
Giving LSD to a child would violate one of Leary's two laws for the psychedelic age: never expand the consciousness of another without his permission. The other law is never prevent another from expanding his own consciousness.
Why do many describe these experiences as "expanding consciousness" when it is likely that more is closed off than opened, especially with LSD?
....well I must be completely brain dead then! Maybe I am and because I am so unenlightened I am unaware it. Thanks for shining the light for me hey hey, to show me the error of my ways.
Meh I think you deserve to expand your mind in whichever way you see fit, im not a fan of drugs but I dont have anything against those who do em.. Think of it this way, would you rather expand your mind on acid, or slowly die from cancer therapy (60% of doctors said they wouldnt take their own cancer treatments, if they had cancer).
...agreed, however I do not engage in such a loose life style anymore. For me doing drugs was more about being rebelious and flipping authority the bird. Expanded consciousness was just a bi-product of that lifestyle....but I've always been intelligent with a quick and calculating mind. Drugs merely unleashed parts of me that were already there, but due to attempted authoritative control had been repressed in my youthful development. Drugs and alchohol were outlets that brought a more fully actualized version of me. If only you could 'trip like i do', I used to tell people, and see the world through my eyes and filtered through my brain....
hmmm...
Yep, and try to maintained the response, as to the opening post of this thread. If he had felt confident and assured of himself, how would this of unleashed the response of the nervous system? Does it matter?
Sensitive nervous system {likes to stay close to home(everything remain the same)}, and a bad trip, do they go together?
Remember?
QUOTE
Plato: frees the nervous system of its ordinary patterns and structures.
QUOTE
Rick:Did you read it?
Yep, and try to maintained the response, as to the opening post of this thread. If he had felt confident and assured of himself, how would this of unleashed the response of the nervous system? Does it matter?
Sensitive nervous system {likes to stay close to home(everything remain the same)}, and a bad trip, do they go together?
Remember?
hmmm....
....trust me 'Plato' (paradigms of thought have changed drastically since your day) it does matter, that whole observer created reality and all, you know....deciding how to collapse realities wavefunctions!
....trust me 'Plato' (paradigms of thought have changed drastically since your day) it does matter, that whole observer created reality and all, you know....deciding how to collapse realities wavefunctions!
BewilderedSoul:
Yes, we can draw conclusions from experiences.
Trip:
Why I stay very close to the front of the pack:)
Any other words for the bewildered soul?
QUOTE
I can imagine that this text is very blurry and subjective, and by its nature doesn't belong in this forum. But I just want to understand why this schizophrenic/psychedelic experience (bad trip) happened to me?
This "experience" has created a new invisible world around me, about what I had no knowledge of before. And still my understandings of it is very blurred and confused.
This "experience" has created a new invisible world around me, about what I had no knowledge of before. And still my understandings of it is very blurred and confused.
Yes, we can draw conclusions from experiences.
Trip:
QUOTE
paradigms of thought have changed drastically since your day
Why I stay very close to the front of the pack:)
Any other words for the bewildered soul?
....keeping a finger on the pulse of the global discourse that is pumping on and beneath realities surface appearance!
What is it that you do? Besides philosophize!
Are you an open and transparent system or are you a closed and oblique system?
What is it that you do? Besides philosophize!
Are you an open and transparent system or are you a closed and oblique system?
(I think you mean 'opaque', Trip - the opposite of 'transparent'.)
To all those who explicitly or implicitly frown on the use of psychedelics:
Non-users of psychedelics never attain experiences of a mystical nature unless they meditate and/or are lucky enough to have such an experience spontaneously.
So deprived, non-users of psychedelics are in a very poor position from which to judge the benefits attainable through the sensible use of psychedelics. Though they may be able to conceptualise the world as one meaningful and coherent unity, they have never actually experienced it as such. The idea remains the mere idea of a truth, and not the felt experience of a truth.
But the nature of mystical realisations is that they are felt experiences. The process of learning is a felt change in the learner's state of being. The essence of the experience cannot be conveyed in words, but actually the experiencer would have no need to distill the experience verbally, because it was not an idea that could be grasped intellectually, but a very clear and direct experience.
In short, despite how this may infuriate non-users, in order to be able to comment meaningfully on the fruits of psychedelic use, you probably have to have experienced them yourself.
Of course, one must include the necessary note of caution. Genuinely realised mystics point out that psychedelics do not accurately simulate mystical union with the divine; they induce a poor imitation of it, and one that does not last. Nevertheless, I would suggest that such a poor and fleeting glimpse of the divine is probably better than none at all - an absence which all too often allows a dualistic, self-isolated, mechanistic worldview to prevail.
To all those who explicitly or implicitly frown on the use of psychedelics:
Non-users of psychedelics never attain experiences of a mystical nature unless they meditate and/or are lucky enough to have such an experience spontaneously.
So deprived, non-users of psychedelics are in a very poor position from which to judge the benefits attainable through the sensible use of psychedelics. Though they may be able to conceptualise the world as one meaningful and coherent unity, they have never actually experienced it as such. The idea remains the mere idea of a truth, and not the felt experience of a truth.
But the nature of mystical realisations is that they are felt experiences. The process of learning is a felt change in the learner's state of being. The essence of the experience cannot be conveyed in words, but actually the experiencer would have no need to distill the experience verbally, because it was not an idea that could be grasped intellectually, but a very clear and direct experience.
In short, despite how this may infuriate non-users, in order to be able to comment meaningfully on the fruits of psychedelic use, you probably have to have experienced them yourself.
Of course, one must include the necessary note of caution. Genuinely realised mystics point out that psychedelics do not accurately simulate mystical union with the divine; they induce a poor imitation of it, and one that does not last. Nevertheless, I would suggest that such a poor and fleeting glimpse of the divine is probably better than none at all - an absence which all too often allows a dualistic, self-isolated, mechanistic worldview to prevail.
....and any empathy that I might have felt for another might have come from familiarity.....similar experience.....thus the years of experience fondly describing and understanding the use of, in let's say Casteneda.....or other experienes of my youth.....might not qualify to the young insolence protrayed as understanding by that youth.....rejecting adulthood....for what indepenadnce the youth seek as their way....is the way I had been explaining it and they just weren't listening.
I have chidren who about these ages.......have done research most of my life.....as well as worked a full life... who as a father couldn't have helped feeling as responible for that youth in a caring way.....as I would only speak what I would to my own son to hear.....yet enough not to intrude.....and leave it as that then... and go on my way.
Lao_Tzu:
Yes, a mystic would have understood, and might have countered your final thought saying it is better they not have had the experience "until" they were ready. Creating a youth that is strong and centered, to adventure forward.....we can hope the individual does not have things hiding in their closet.....insecurities.....for they have a way of exploidng onto the scene?
Why it might be better to get to know themself first, so they get to know people. Get to understand dreams by journalling.....and spending time observing.
Understanding how a presentation of TA might help in that effort, as well as, how the future in computerization and Fuzzy logic might have been seen in other contexts......but that's for another time.....just the TA is important right now for them.
To help them see their life possible in a structured way, and then, once knowing what is coming from where and who said what......as reactionary changes from the childhood .......make way for understanding of the adult and thus......one day such exchanges sought.
Respected.... and felt as advice that we would only want to share......had we understood what was being asked.....and that we were asked.....and only enough not to intrude.
I have chidren who about these ages.......have done research most of my life.....as well as worked a full life... who as a father couldn't have helped feeling as responible for that youth in a caring way.....as I would only speak what I would to my own son to hear.....yet enough not to intrude.....and leave it as that then... and go on my way.
Lao_Tzu:
QUOTE
Genuinely realised mystics point out that psychedelics do not accurately simulate mystical union with the divine; they induce a poor imitation of it(maybe none at all?), and one that does not last.
Yes, a mystic would have understood, and might have countered your final thought saying it is better they not have had the experience "until" they were ready.
Creating a youth that is strong and centered, to adventure forward.....we can hope the individual does not have things hiding in their closet.....insecurities.....for they have a way of exploidng onto the scene?Why it might be better to get to know themself first, so they get to know people. Get to understand dreams by journalling.....and spending time observing.
Understanding how a presentation of TA might help in that effort, as well as, how the future in computerization and Fuzzy logic might have been seen in other contexts......but that's for another time.....just the TA is important right now for them.
To help them see their life possible in a structured way, and then, once knowing what is coming from where and who said what......as reactionary changes from the childhood .......make way for understanding of the adult and thus......one day such exchanges sought.
Respected.... and felt as advice that we would only want to share......had we understood what was being asked.....and that we were asked.....and only enough not to intrude.
Do you think we are so lucky that coming upon LSD gave us the route into a consciousness that is better than the innate type? Just changing the vision of the outside world doesn't make it any more real. Let's always be scientific about the approach to expanded consciousness. Kids (as we all have been) experimenting with drugs does nothing to forward the cause. And (Rick), yes I did read it, but the support of one or two trendy drug taking academics (worthy academics don't write books nowadays - it's the papers that do it, you know) does nothing for the credibility of our (the forum's) quest for expanded consciousness. For goodness sake, look at the cast off syringes in every town centre and see that drugs do damage, to the takers and to the taxpayer. I don't want to encourage anyone, especially minors to experiment. Too many things go wrong. There aren't many computers on the streets that the failed experimenters can access to give their stories and I'd be pleased to know how you access the internet from the afterlife! I'm not winging, I just care about people. Stay off the drugs and get in tune with science. Let's expand, not expunge!
Amen:)
About the afterlife...heh, heh.....I'll have to think about that one:) ... okay thought about it....I am about science.
About the afterlife...heh, heh.....I'll have to think about that one:) ... okay thought about it....I am about science.
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 03, 07:11 AM)
does nothing for the credibility of our (the forum's) quest for expanded consciousness.
Good point. I was kind of wondering my self about that. Calling an LSD trip an expansion of consciousness. I does exactly what you alledge in your post: Lead the novice to get the wrong idea about this forum and the ultimate purpose of BrainMeta all together. The two should not be placed so they appear to be something on the same level. Someone here may suggest a new jargon that tackles that issue? If nothing else, for the benefit of Brain Meta itself. Very good point actually, Hey Hey!
QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 03, 08:11 AM)
...And (Rick), yes I did read it, but the support of one or two trendy drug taking academics (worthy academics don't write books nowadays - it's the papers that do it, you know) does nothing for the credibility of our (the forum's) quest for expanded consciousness. ...
Then for the sake of our forum's credibility, perhaps we should petition Shawn to remove the entire subforum Entheogens.
Hoffmann, a professional chemist, never popularized in books nor became trendy. Leary was already published in peer-reviewed journals before he became a Harvard professor. He became trendy later and wrote many popularizing books: The Politics of Ecstacy, High Priest, etc.
I don't like the term "entheogen," personally. It implies the existence of a deity, which might be a bit controversial. The standard old term "hallucinogen" is also a misnomer. The term "psychedelic," which means "mind manifesting" is perhaps the best.
QUOTE(Lao_Tzu @ May 03, 07:48 AM)
(I think you mean 'opaque', Trip - the opposite of 'transparent'.)
Yes, you thought correctly, thanks. I can't believe I made that mistake, I'm so ashamed, being a painter and all.
I wonder if it was a freudian slip? lol
....oh great, here comes the authoritative control police. You guys make me laugh....hipocrates!
Still trying to mechanize free will eh, where there is a will there is a way!
While I do agree with some of your concerns and comments, I disagree with your proposed solution!
Still trying to mechanize free will eh, where there is a will there is a way!
While I do agree with some of your concerns and comments, I disagree with your proposed solution!
Trippy, I was being sarcastic.
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