Hey I am just curious if anyone has a list,chart,table est. on the effects of ELF,VLF est. I know that you can induce someone into whichever state of mind you want by sending the ELF waves via inbetween two frequencies above 100hz, but an old friend of mine also knew about the more advanced features of specific waves. I am really wondering about two things first does anyone have info regarding the silent sound spread spectrum? I am having a difficult time finding good info and secondly do you have a list of frequency effects on humans? I believe that 485 or somewhere near their is known to be used by the police in the UK for riot control.

-thanks

Ok, I got the part about Extremely Low Frequency (ELF; 3 Hz – 3 kHz) and lower end of the Very Low Frequency (VLF; 3 – 30 kHz), but what is "est" (electrical stimulation?) and what evidence do you have that you can induce someone into whichever state of mind you want by sending the ELF waves via in between two frequencies above 100hz? You're talking about stimulating particular parts of the brain? Even in that case, you can't put people in whatever state you want because mental states are too varied and too many for that.

Maybe this is relevant:
(from http://www.ilo.org/encyclopedia/?doc&nd=85...16&nh=0&ssect=1 )

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Interaction Mechanisms and Biological Effects

Interaction mechanisms

The only established mechanisms by which ELF and VLF fields interact with biological systems are:

· Electric fields which induce a surface charge on an exposed body which results in currents (measured in mA/) inside the body, the magnitude of which is related to the surface charge density. Depending on the exposure conditions, size, shape and position of the exposed body in the field, the surface charge density can vary greatly, resulting in a variable and non-uniform distribution of currents inside the body.

· Magnetic fields also act on humans by inducing electric fields and currents inside the body.

· Electric charges induced in a conducting object (e.g., an automobile) exposed to ELF or VLF electric fields may cause current to pass through a person in contact with it.

· Magnetic field coupling to a conductor (for example, a wire fence) causes electric currents (of the same frequency as the exposing field) to pass through the body of a person in contact with it.

· Transient discharges (sparks) can occur when people and metal objects exposed to a strong electric field come into sufficiently close proximity.

· Electric or magnetic fields may interfere with implanted medical devices (e.g., unipolar cardiac pacemakers) and cause malfunction of the device.

The first two interactions listed above are examples of direct coupling between persons and ELF or VLF fields. The last four interactions are examples of indirect coupling mechanisms because they can occur only when the exposed organism is in the vicinity of other bodies. These bodies can include other humans or animals and objects such as automobiles, fences or implanted devices.

While other mechanisms of interaction between biological tissues and ELF or VLF fields have been postulated or there is some evidence to support their existence (WHO 1993; NRPB 1993; NRC 1996), none has been shown to be responsible for any adverse consequence to health.

Health effects

The evidence suggests that most of the established effects of exposure to electric and magnetic fields in the frequency range > 0 to 30 kHz result from acute responses to surface charge and induced current density. People can perceive the effects of the oscillating surface charge induced on their bodies by ELF electric fields (but not by magnetic fields); these effects become annoying if sufficiently intense. A summary of the effects of currents passing through the human body (thresholds for perception, let-go or tetanus) are given in table 49.6.

________________________________________


Table 49.6 Effects of currents passing through the human body

Source: Bernhardt 1988a.

______________________________________


Human nerve and muscle cells have been stimulated by the currents induced by exposure to magnetic fields of several mT and 1 to 1.5 kHz; threshold current densities are thought to be above 1 . Flickering visual sensations can be induced in the human eye by exposure to magnetic fields as low as about 5 to 10 mT (at 20 Hz) or electric currents directly applied to the head. Consideration of these responses and of the results of neurophysiological studies suggests that subtle central nervous system functions, such as reasoning or memory, may be affected by current densities above 10 (NRPB 1993). Threshold values are likely to remain constant up to about 1 kHz but rise with increasing frequency thereafter.

Several in vitro studies (WHO 1993; NRPB 1993) have reported metabolic changes, such as alterations in enzyme activity and protein metabolism and decreased lymphocyte cytotoxicity, in various cell lines exposed to ELF and VLF electric fields and currents applied directly to the cell culture. Most effects have been reported at current densities between about 10 and 1,000 , although these responses are less clearly defined (Sienkiewicz, Saunder and Kowalczuk 1991). However, it is worth noting that the endogenous current densities generated by the electrical activity of nerves and muscles are typically as high as 1 and may reach up to 10 in the heart. These current densities will not adversely affect nerve, muscle and other tissues. Such biological effects will be avoided by restricting the induced current density to less than 10 at frequencies up to about 1 kHz.

Several possible areas of biological interaction which have many health implications and about which our knowledge is limited include: possible changes in night-time melatonin levels in the pineal gland and alterations in circadian rhythms induced in animals by exposure to ELF electric or magnetic fields, and possible effects of ELF magnetic fields on the processes of development and carcinogenesis. In addition, there is some evidence of biological responses to very weak electric and magnetic fields: these include the altered mobility of calcium ions in brain tissue, changes in neuronal firing patterns, and altered operand behaviour. Both amplitude and frequency “windows” have been reported which challenge the conventional assumption that the magnitude of a response increases with increasing dose. These effects are not well established and do not provide a basis for establishing restrictions on human exposure, although further investigations are warranted (Sienkievicz, Saunder and Kowalczuk 1991; WHO 1993; NRC 1996).

Table 49.7 gives the approximate ranges of induced current densities for various biological effects in humans.

_________________________________


Table 49.7 Approximate current density ranges for various biological effects

est means ecetera as in higher forms of waves as well. the evidence is in EEG machines, this is how it works. Humans cannot hear below 100hz, to induce someone into one of the four states you need to somehow send a frequency that is below 100hz that can be heard. This is accomplished by sending two waves (one in each ear) the theory and practice is that the diffrence of these two waves creates a wave below 100hz. Example, left ear: 430hz ,right ear: 440hz. 440-430 = 10hz so as long as the waves dont combine before they reach the brain (why you use head phones or speakers on each side) then you managed to inject whatever hz you want into the brain.

Now why does this make a person enter into a diffrent state of conciousness? Well thats where EEG's come in. When you enter into a diffrent state of concousness your brain goes to a diffrent wavelength, by injecting these wavelengths into the brain you manage to make it believe it is entering whatever state you want it to.

If you want to try it Download the brain wave generator at www.bwgen.com , also note that like hypnosis bringing someone into a state may be resisted if you know whats going on. You can have the frequencies at a very low volume and still achieve the desired effects. (maybe as a control try it on a pet to see if you can put them to sleep?)

I dare to differ. This is only true to a certain extent, i.e. it isn't possible to copy experiences, but states, with some degree of reliability, is possible with today's tech, namely Shakti and TMS and neurofeedback thrown in for good measure.

maximus, so you're talking about binaural beats. You can't access any state of consciousness using binaural beats. Binaural beats are just auditory stimuli. Sometimes they make for pleasant listening; sometimes they entrain brain frequencies and may synchronize brain activities. But you can't put someone into any state of mind using binaural beats.




Current TMS is too crude. Shakti is too 'fluffy'. Even implanted stimulating electrodes and electrode arrays are rather crude. We lack the technology today to access arbitrary mental states via stimulation.

I also have information about the silent sound encoding somewhere, I will post it when I find it.

I'm sure this is so but the way you put it sounds like nobody got OBE's consistently from Shakti, which is not true... and TMS, I haven't tried that myself.

but OBEs are just a very small part of consciousness and of our mental states. There is a whole wide world of consciousness that is inaccessible through TMS and other techniques. They await the future to unlock those states.

Have you forgotten that you can use ELF & VLF through magnetics? and I beg to differ that you cannot induce someone. I have a friend of mine who managed to make someone puke on command through injection of Hz. The easiest way to test the effectiveness of ELF & VLF is for someone with an EEG to see what the effects are when the frequencies are played. Another technique is to first match or come close to the current state of mind someone is in and then slowely bring them down or up into a diffrent state.

I couldn't agree more. Yet I must add, that I still want to build my own TMS of some sort simply because it's one of the best there is right now. Do you have your own?

Maximus, if puking was induced by binaural beats or audio on the body then that IS quite amazing.

If magnets, how strong fields are we talking about?

Unforunatly my friend is too busy to be asked about it any further. But what I do know is that in order to find which frequencies did what he would have the person do something, and then observe which frequency they were on when it occured. However this doesnt use binural beats because they are only for 100hz and under, these frequencies were mostly 100hz + which means their is no need for head phones, alls you need is a transmitter EEP!

mayonaise, I have an assortment of tools lol, but what i do need is to build an EEG. For bineural beats I use a freeware from www.bwgen.com

I'm couldn't find what an EEP transmitter is. Do you have a link?

I'm not sure how much EEG can help in copying experiences... except for making the alpha-theta state easier to reach.

I read that Neurophone might induce visual images when applied on the occipital lobe (instead of the default frontal lobes where it might affect more the logic/emotion department). I'm going to start boxing soon and I'm going to try to accelerate my learning by listening to an instructional audio set with the NP there. May sound a bit freaky, but if it works then great, if it doesn't then I haven't lost much money.

lol its a regular transmitter what i ment by EEP! is that it is scary what you can do if alls you need is a transmitter to send a frequency and then presto on with the show! as far as frequencies r concerned u can also make em on ur computer through the bwgen freeware

no I don't. Haven't used it either but would like to.





I've used that, but didn't find it very useful. The sounds are novel and interesting at first. But now I tend to find the sounds more distracting than relaxing.

I dont have a TMS but as far as building one is concerned it isnt that complicated it uses the same concepts as other frequency techniques except it can directly send the frequency instead of through bineural beats, I will have to look into it a bit more for exactly how the machine works.

Dr. Lomarev: The transcranial magnetic stimulation uses a machine, or a generator, which has a lot of condensers. The condensers are charges and they discharge the electricity through a coil, which is basically a conductor. The current flows through the coil, and around the surface of the coil a magnetic field is generated. The sequence of the events is actually here: TMS machine, TMS coil, and magnetic field in the brain that penetrates through this coil. The electrical current is induced in different layers of the motor cortex and activation of the brain is a result of this kind of stimulation.

Great. Let's build one!

It appears to be in a most basic form an electro magnet

Oh and here's what a friend of mine does...

4. record all my major moods and states of consciousness and keep a library, so that in idle moments I can think, “hmmm, how would I like to feel this evening?”...and play it back to myself.

...I still don't know how he does this - it has to be EEG translated to sounds and/or GSR ?!

But this level of control certainly goes a long way for me, at least... when I eventually get there that is :-)

That sounds like an excellent idea.


About the TMS, we need schematics, and suppliers and price lists for the components

Basically thats exactly what you wanna do, you find an action you want and then record it when you want that action repeated you play it back. The reason why you use an EEG is because it records what frequency your brain is on when this occurs. To repeat this you simply enter in the frequency of the state you want. Would your friend be willing to share his library ?

If you're serious, then I'm jolly happy or something :-) because it will take a lot longer to figure stuff out by myself. One of my projects is to put up a group for an open source TMS/rTMS (the difference in my version of it being the field strength; TMS usually (?) makes a noise of over 110dB but it may be possible to get around that by settling for something less powerful but still significantly more powerful than Shakti).

I've got some "plan files" (no manufacturers of parts, just the mathematics and physics) but unfortunately I don't have a link. Should get the site up first. Sourceforge? OpenEEG's there.

MUHAHAHAHAHA I just found a book on it, il read it and see if I can find some good descriptions of plans, ect.

Yeah, well.. the problem is, the way I see it, that if you just extract the dominant frequency of an EEG recording and make it play binaurally, that frequency represents only a small portion of your EEG and will at best be a very weak resemblance of the original state (if I'm not right and the brain can reconstruct moods from a single frequency, then I admit I have greatly underestimated the brilliance of the brain).

Your joke about sharing the library is partly on topic. It might be possible to (if you google around, you can see CD's advertised as using this technique and the US military has done some research on it as a potential weapon) extract some EEG correlates of major moods and then help create the same moods in others - but not carbon copy them.

lol unfortunatly I dont have an EEG i wannas build one though, the idea is not to BB them it depends on what the action is. It is also perfectly possible to send out multiple frequencies to better mimic the EEG.

About the TMS it looks like we are going to want to focus on rTMS as far as frequency is concerned, TMS is normally extremly short pulses used to stimulate motor function rTMS deals with more of our subject matter.

Great :-)

wow this is bloody crazy, you could make someone your puppet with TMS or TES. We will definatly need to check in depth on proper procedure. It seems as though TMS is reliant on the length of time you have the stimulation

Ok. I know it's possible to use multiple frequencies but 1) I'm not very impressed about the neurological knowledge of most people doing bwgen presets 2) how will you derive the frequencies that make the state? It's the algorithm that counts if you get any effects and it cannot be very easy to come up with. See brainmusictreatment.com. There is a research paper that tells a little more about how they do it but naturally, not very much.

But this seems interesting...

http://www.cs.colostate.edu/eeg/tones/

If there are some existing, tested algorithms there, that would be a big help.

TMS is used on other parts than the motor cortex. Will have to check what the exact differences are.

http://openeeg.sourceforge.net is an interesting example. Yes, we should see about setting this up. Someone want to look into SourceForge, or should I?

TMS is a singular pulse rTMS is repeating, TMS is used to stimulate for actions rTMS is more geared towards treatment of depression, pain releif, feelings of euphoria or fear, and altered states of consciousness

I already found an open source one http://open-rtms.sourceforge.net/

Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS) uses pulses of electromagnetic field that induce an electric field in the brain. It is a direct way of manipulating and interfering with the function of some networks.
Brain stimulation with TMS can be either excitatory or inhibitory, depending on the frequency of the field. Excitatory effects are normally sensory motor. In the inhibitory mode TMS can temporarily suppress perception and/or interfere with task performance. At first glance this may not seem very useful. However, people can exhibit remarkable newfound skills when hooked up to TMS in inhibitory mode, and with regular use these abilities remain after the temporarily 'silenced' bits come back online.
There's nothing new about TMS. It's been used in hospitals since 1985 both to test for results of brain surgery and for research, and is now being explored as a therapeutic tool in depression, schizophrenia, and stroke recovery, with very promising results.
TMS achieves its effects by sending short (about one thousandth of a second) pulses of magnetic field through a coil located above or beside the head. The pulses can be varied from between one per second to about 50 per second, and they are generated with a circuit containing a discharge capacitor connected with the coil in series by a thyristor. With the capacitor first charged, the gating of the thyristor into the conducting state will cause the discharging of the capacitor through the coil. The field is strongest near the coil and stimulates a cortical area of a few centimeters in diameter. The pulses cause coherent firing of neurons in the stimulated area, and alters neuronal action potential firing due to synaptic input. (The field affects the neurons' transmembrane voltage and thereby the voltage-sensitive ion channels.)
The effects of TMS are many and varied. Perhaps the most remarkable thing is, when we 'turn off' some of the higher brain functions using this method, extraordinary abilities emerge.R42 Often they are musical, mathematical, linguistic or artistic. It can increase our attention to detail and clarity of perception. One mistake people make about this is believing the abilities it enhances to be creative -they are not. TMS may enable you to sing a song perfectly after hearing it only once, but it will not assist you to write one. It is the ability to copy, which is enhanced. If you are creative already, though, the results can be stunning. Sensory motor tasks can also be learned faster by stimulating the motor cortex whilst they are practiced. Reaction time can be increased in many tasks, for example the recognition and naming of objects, by TMS-ing Wernicke's area with a quick blip just before each one.
The area of the cortex we 'turn off' for these purposes, is the left frontotemporal lobe. 20 minutes is a good session time, and practice of the skill required should be pursued throughout and after the event. After a week or so of one session per day you will notice some large changes in your ability. Once you have practiced enough, you will keep the skill for as long as you continue to regularly use it, just like any other. It feels very similar to learning how to raise or lower your blood pressure through biofeedback, as though something that is normally unconscious is being lifted into conscious awareness through practice.
Other (no less remarkable) effects of TMS and also of Neuro Magnetic Stimulation (NMS), which we'll talk about in a minute, are the evocation of temporal lobe emotion and related experiences, auditory, visual and mental.R43 We briefly touched upon this in the last chapter, and in this one we're going to take a closer look.
Both these bits of tech have potential in the treatment of depression and other aberrant mental conditions too, so they are well worth getting into. TMS provides a good test if someone is not sure whether they are suffering from depression or merely going through a mood phase. You can ascertain which it is by aiming the TMS at the left dorsolateral prefrontal cortex. If the subject has a sudden desire to cry or actually cries, they're not depressed. If they feel no urge to cry, or even cheer up a little, they probably have depression. To treat it, aim at the same area for 30 minutes at a time, daily, for two weeks. Then sit back and be pleasantly surprised. You will be. TMS even seems to be effective in depression cases that will not respond to drugs. The effect should last for about three months, so you should be able to achieve an ongoing control by doing this every quarter, although some people have only needed to use TMS twice a year to keep their depression at bay in a drug-free way.
TMS has its drawbacks however. If you buy one, it will set you back around $35,000 so it's best to build your own1. On top of that, it's hot, (as in, temperature, not as in, stolen) and can actually burn the scalp if the proper precautions are not taken. It can cause muscular cramps in the head and neck. And the real problem is, it's loud. Imagine a deathwatch beetle at around 100 dB +; that's what I mean by loud. Your neighbors will not be impressed; in fact you are likely to get complaints from as far as three streets away. So unless you're a genius at noise cancellation you need an isolated location, helicopter pilots' earplugs and then some. Finally, don't even think about using TMS if there's any metal or tech on or in you (remove jewelry and check pockets). The magnetic field attracts ferromagnetic objects and repels nonmagnetic conductors (it will disturb the function of electronic devices). This also matters for the experimenter as well as the subject. If you have ever seen anyone stuck to a TMS coil by their trouser zip, you will appreciate the fact that this caution is not to be ignored. TMS is a very powerful tool for learning, but it is wise to remember that it is a very powerful tool.
There is a protocol for TMS use designed by and for users, which you will encounter if you get involved in online groups using it. The government hasn't got its act together to design safety protocols yet, so guys wrote their own. It is important to conform to these if we expect any approval from bodies such as the FDA & BMA, and in this sense also you are asked to be responsible. Do not even think of using this technology if you have ever had seizures. I don't think anyone's stupid enough to do that... are they?


I know this but the buggers promote the site as rTMS when really it's Shakti (or NMS) they're talking about.

The text says there already are online groups (I assume he means real TMS groups, not Shakti groups)

This forum has an upload feature ( http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3144 ) . We could use this to post pdf's or images until we get organized enough to move over to SourceForge or something else.

Right. Not a bad idea. What about safety? There's a fine line between worrying and justifiable caution... how many drug fiends (not users) do you think visit here.

Well lets consider what we are going to need, I know that using TES an electronic engineer could become a puppet master, but TMS seems superior with exception to the noise.

Needed Materials:

1. Detailed Circut Plans
2. Coil (conductive)
3. Discharge Capacitor
4. Thyristor

add more to the list as we learn?

heres a pic of a person on TMS http://www.biomag.hus.fi/images/tms_iso2.jpg

There was a file size limit of 50kB, but I zipped the lot and put it here:

http://rapidshare.de/files/13143141/tms.zip.html

There's lots of info there so dig in this first IMO.

?? im confused

All the TMS info I got is now in that zip. Go download.

well what about z pulser? it looks simple enough to build

from: Build a Low cost & simple Magnetic Pulser

Also note dehydrated patients may not respond well to any type of therapy!

WARNING: This is an experimental device and uses 110Volt AC mains voltage, build at your own peril. If not comfortable, have a someone familiar with electronics like a TV repairman build it for you. Do not use 220 V AC without appropriate modifications!



Well finally, I have got all the wrinkles out my prototype SCR Thumpy. And my new circuit has definitely got the power. You can actually feel an electric current pulse when used in the neck area - uncanny! This is subtle however. The only thing I have not got around to do is make it automatic - it still uses a press button to trigger the pulse. I don't like the auto types as the body gets habituated with non random pulses - hence have to come up with a random pulser circuit one of these days.

To calculate the output energy use the following:

Formula: W=(CE^2)/2

W=energy in joules: C = Capacitance in farads: V = Voltage across Capacitor in volts

# capacitors #Joules
5* 29
6 35
7 41

*Present circuit.

Any SCR with PEAK current of at least 600 to 1000 amps should work. The one shown is 20 amp continuous with the appropriate peak rating. The lamps act as current limiters and protect the SCR against a short circuit. The circuit can be further simplified as discussed in point 3 below.

I have build several of these and my experience has been:

1) The capacitors develop a memory and don't fully discharge its better to use a number of them in parallel. This reduces the internal resistance and provides a better result and less memory loss. The caps must be designed for flash applications.

2) The flash tube heats and develops some resistance so you need to have enough time between flashes for them to cool down. This has been eliminated in my circuit.

3) Using a high current SCR (this forces the caps to fully discharge by providing a longer connection than the strobe) and parallel caps from disposable cameras I can now consistently get 12 - 18 inch with #14 fender washers. And you can cycle them very fast (though not recommended). All for less than $30 Cdn. The most expensive part is the coil which can cost as much a $20 unless you build it yourself! One can further reduce the cost if at a latter date you don't want to upgrade to auto pulsing. This can be accomplished by removing the 10k resistor and the SCR and simply wiring the a push to close switch in line to the coil. Don't recommend this unless you just can't get an SCR or really need to reduce cost. MAKE SURE THE PUSH BUTTON SWITCH CAN HANDLE THE CURRENT AND IS MECHANICALLY ROBUST!

More info regarding other coils options etc. is available at:

http://www.keelynet.com/biology/thumind.htm

If you do make the circuit I would love to hear how it turned out.

Chris Gupta

Coil winding instructions from Dr. Beck's paper are:

"Junk VHS videocassette reels are cheap, plentiful and adequate for this application. Remove 5 screws from shell, remove reels and discard tape. Be SURE alternative spools (if used) are non-conductive or system will not work. Avoid shorter length VHS tape reels which may have center hubs larger than 1" dia. and won’t hold sufficient wire. Drill 3" holes through hub and through center of flange(s). Make two 4" discs from 3" thick plastic or fiberboard, drill 3" center holes and another 3" hole off-center so coil's inside lead wire can be pulled through. These 'stiffeners' will sandwich reel's flanges so they won’t warp or split as wire pressure builds up while winding progresses. A 2" (or longer) 3-20 machine nut and bolt with washers through centers will clamp flange stiffeners and reel and also provide a shaft to hold in a variable speed drill motor or similar winding device if used. Then remove bolt and stiffeners.

Specifications: Completely fill tape spool with #14 or 16 enameled copper magnet wire (130 to 160 turns) wound onto the 1" dia. hub and 3-2" OD spool with a gap width for wire of e". Scrape enamel insulation 2" from ends and tin. Pull inside end of magnet wire through hub and stiffener and to outside. ~130 turns (about About 1-2# should fill spool. Remove bolt, stiffeners, and finished coil. Now solder ends of 3 ft of heavy two-wire extension cord to each side of coil. Finished coil weighs ~1 LB 3 oz, has ~0.935 millihenry inductance, 0.34 W resistance, and takes ~20 minutes to hand wind or ~3 minutes with drill motor. An excellent alternative is an AMS brand air-core crossover inductor for home audio, MCM Electronics, Centerville, OH 45459. (800) 543-4330 catalog # 50-940, #16 gauge, 0.58W, 2.5mH, 2-f" dia., $10.65"







I have also attached a file for the free CircuitMaker Student Version electronics software for those interested in modifying the simple circuit that I have developed.

pulserworking.ckt

Please share your experience so all can benefit. Thanks

Chris Gupta

That's a simpler concept I came across. But the coils from a VCR cannot be very effective? On the other hand, I do have this concept as well (I forgot to include this in the zip):

I have a coil made that consists of 240 feet of 20 AWG magnet wire. It is
actually 3 - 80 foot strands in parallel strands in the same coil to reduce
DC resistance of the coil. The coil is wound in a manner so as to provide
parallel wires laterally around the forehead, (9 rows of 3 parallel 20 AWG
wires and 4 layers thick). I am going to feed it with either one of two
methods.

One of them would be a higher frequency, say 50 - 100 Hz 30% duty cycle
square wave pulses with that pulse train to be switched on and off at the
frequency I am trying to induce (4 - 14 Hz) with that switching frequency
also at a 30% duty cycle. The exact frequency would depend upon the
inductive reactance of the output coil which I have yet to test to
ascertain.

The other method would be to simply feed the coil with a 30% duty cycle at
the fundamental frequency I trying to induce, 4 - 14 Hz). This would be
another possibility and more direct than trying to accomplish the
entertainment with a higher frequency pulse train modulated at the frequency
of entertainment I am trying to achieve.

I plan to use a signal generated by a computer parallel port to generate the
fundamental frequency, as I already have that signal to control a CES unit I
have created. I have that signal optoisolated and will use a set of
darlington transistors to actually drive the coil. The general scheme would
be the same as is commonly used to drive a relay coil from a parallel port
complete with a diode to protect the transistors when the field of the coil
is dropped and the field collapses.

I have two questions:

The first one is which of the two driving methods above do you think would
be most effective. By that I mean use the higher frequency pulse train
(50 - 100 Hz) modulated at the fundamental frequency I am trying to entrain
at or driving the coil directly at the fundamental frequency it's self.

The second question is do you think I should actually use 2 coils spaced a
small distance apart wired in reverse so as to create a field with one in a
north and the other in a south ward orientation. This would create a
difference field, one positive and one negative across the top of the
forehead. This might act somewhat like a figure eight coil creates, with a
north and south face applied to regions of the head, thus possibly inducing
a current directly under the axis of the differential fields.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Oh yeah, also... Has anyone
here ever tried to create a rTMS with a retriggerable coil gun circuit? The
discharge of some big caps through a coil like they do in coil guns to sling
a magnet or nail must create one heck of a field. Winding a figure eight
coil should not be to difficult to use with such a circuit.

Especially the latter part about the coil gun circuit is interesting because he mentions it may induce a big field which is necessary for , well, _big_ _effects_.

I would use some shitty VCR coils either, any conductive material will generate a magentic pulse, the good thing about it is that we are provided with a circut diagram

That may come in handy...

This might help to decide what to make the coil out of

Coil design must always be taken into account when constructing TMS equipment. Effective design is hindered by the high amount of energy that must be driven through the coil in a very brief time. In brain stimulation this energy is about 500 J, which would suffice to lift a weight of 1 kg to a height of 50 m.

The intense submillisecond current pulses cause strong expanding and compressing forces in the coil. The forces are even tens of kilonewtons and thus the cross-sectional wire size must be large and the potting material resistant. The forces are proportional to the peak energy in the coil. Optimally, the coils are wound so that the forces are compressing in the direction where the coil touches the head.

In rTMS, an additional trouble is that tens of W/Hz of power is dissipated in the coil. The coil being usually placed against the head, according to the safety standards its surface temperature must not exceed 41ºC. One should also avoid high wire temperatures (100-120ºC), since these deteriorate insulation, decreasing safety and the coil?s life time. Built-in temperature sensors and effective cooling can be used to guard against excessive temperatures.

Problems with power consumption and coil heating can be alleviated by reducing the coil?s resistance, determined by the wire gauge and coil geometry [Publication VI]. When the cross-sectional dimensions of the wire exceed 1 to 2 mm, the skin and proximity effects change the current distribution in the wire [154], and may increase the direct current resistance significantly. Striped, foil or litz wire can be used to reduce the skin and proximity effects. The skin effect causes the current to flow mainly on the surface of thick wire; hence, tubular wire can be used without affecting the resistance. Liquid coolant can then flow inside the wire, as it is done in the BioMag Laboratory?s TMS coils.

The voltage over the coil?s connectors may be 3 kV and depending on how the coil is wound the voltage across adjacent turns can be from 200

to 1,000 V. The wire insulation (varnish, film, mylar paper) must have the necessary dielectric strength and resist chemical solvents of the potting material (epoxy resin, polyurethane foam). The electrical and liquid coolant contacts must be tightly fastened and well insulated.

The intense current gives rise to a clicking sound from the coil, cables and capacitor, exceeding 100 dB near the coil. To reduce the noise from the coil, researchers at the BioMag Laboratory are investigating the possibility to encapsulate the coil in vacuum or place a vacuum shield between the coil and the subject.

Also check out section 4.4 of Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation Modelling and New Techniques

Furthermore we I think we should use Biphasic waveforms to allow the usage of rTMS and a 8 shaped coil

I couldn't find the 4.4 part named that way... what part are you referring to?

I wouldn't _necessarily_ be going for rTMS _if_ TMS-like gadget would be easier to build. I'm not an engineer and haven't studied sciences very much so ease of build is crucial for me (I don't know about you guys). I would like to get something that has power first, even if it made me puke (ok, joking a little because I wouldn't want to hurt my brain very much, but I guess that's a given)

I suppose you propose the 8-shaped coil for the precision? If I remember right, the 8-shaped coil has to be made quite precisely to have the effects mentioned in the document. I should read more to find out if I'd want to just go ahead, build it as well as I can and then just test one on my head...

I think that they are both crappy designs after looking over the first one I posted i realized you gave me a site to build some bullsh*t blood cleanser! you need to look specifically for TMS units, things that just create magnetic pulses are not gonna do it.

mayonaise, I'm looking at your tms.zip now. What components do we need, where can we purchase them, and how much is it going to cost?

were still picking out which design buddy

Maximus... Maybe there were some BS files but OTOH, dude, how much do you know about magnetics in general? Building and using TMS on your brain is not doing an army drill, it's going to an actual war scene. So any background information is, IMO, a good thing.

If you have expertise on this field, then by all means say it loud so you can rightly claim the leadership of this project (not that I'd want it myself, but I consider openness crucial here).

Z problem is that these people r not designing these circuts for TMS they are designing them for other purposes. Circutry is very precise and going off circuts not meant for this type of work is very dangerous. TMS requires a bit more work than throwing it together in a day. I am still investigating other options that use elf, vlf but without as much hassle as TMS.

Ok. Now I understand you better. I didn't realize that you supposed everything to be TMS because, well, that it was a mixed bag was just so clear to me I didn't even think about it.

I never understood what the EEP transmitter was, that was supposed to be the source of (I believe) either ELF or VLF.

lol i already told ya EEP! was my way of conveying how scary it is that it is that easy to take a regular transmitter and make people do stuff. EEP! in itself is a form of expression like YIKES. their is nothing special about the transmitter however if you intend to go below 100hz then you have to switch to the BB and use 2 transmitters, the bwgen.com freeware is capable of both of these. (a transmitter is a electronic device for transmitting sound across frequencies ur computer can generate frequencies as well)

Also, do you have info regarding the silent sound spread spectrum?

Oh :-) I'm a foreigner so have never come across EEP before. Good to know.

There is stuff like chi generators that use electromagnetic radiation as form of healing (and PEMF fits that category as well). The Rife frequencies and machines are used to kill pathogens, viruses, bacteria.

I've chosen to avoid sites that put a lot of weight on certain frequencies - I know that there probably are some common frequencies for certain types of bodily functions and organs but not necessarily for experiences and the brain.

But I'm open for new information of course.

Here's the instructions on making subliminals with Goldwave. I gather from the text that they are not exactly Silent Sound but still work.

http://rapidshare.de/files/13147204/making...ldwave.rtf.html