Advice needed, Picamilon stopped working Options

[Dawn]

I have been taking picamilon for the last month and a half with really wonderful results. I take it to quell the frustration and irritability that I seem to can't shake off naturally. Sorry to say that it has stopped working for me - just one day it no longer worked. I had heard that it could either work for you indefinitely or it could "stop" suddenly. I am truly upset about this and I need some help.

I am currently taking fish oil, ginkgo, theanine, a good multi vitamin, occasionally ginseng or rhodiola. I seem to suffer from aggression/irritability/narsisscim and the picamilon finally enabled me to get my head out of my you know what, to calm down and to enjoy myself for the first time in I can't remember.

I have two very young kids kids and I don't want them to suffer from my frustrating low level of tolerance. My problems have seemed to have gotten worse since I had kids and it almost seems that it could be hormone related. I am new to the nootrophics, but I am so impressed with this board and the level of knowledge that I have read. Does anyone have any advice to give me and to especially recommend something that would have similar results to picamilon?

I truly thank you for your time to read this.

Dawn

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Dawn

I recommend that you try Valerian Root Tea, a regimen of exercise and some serious heart to heart talks or communications with those in your family. Have you checked into Post Partem Depression?

[Robert the Bruce]

According to the law that governs the universe, all suffering is your labor of love to unveil your real self.
Meher Baba

[Dawn]

Thanks for replying. I do not think I am suffering from post partum, per say, because I had these symptoms before I got pregnant. They have just increased due to me I guess not responding well to the stress. I now that my problems are chemical in nature, because my symptoms of aggression/frustration were all manageable when I was taking the picamilon. I was able to step put of my head and deal with the stress, rather than immediately reacting/overreacting to it. I run about 3-4 times a week - swim about once a week and put in my time outside doing yardwork. I try and talk with my husband about this, but he doesn't believe in supplements making that much of a difference in day to day life. So, I am dealing with this with my sisters' and friends support.

I was taking a very low dose - 50 mg twice a day and I am now supplementing with rhodiola until I find a better solution. I think I will also buy some kava extract. Since I have seen alot of people's "stack" with picamilon in it, I thought I would have found more of a response than I have received. But, I know that people take it for all different kinds of reasons...

I did order some Lecithin Granules and Piracetam Powder and hope that works well. I have heard that sometimes you have to give picamilon a break - I just wonder how long of one.

I appreciate any insight that you may have...

Take care,

Dawn

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Dawn

You might think you should get more of a response because you think the answer is too much in the picamilon or other additives. And indeed if you 'believe' that is helpful to hang in there, it can in fact be helpful. Your exercise is adequate and you may already be taking more additives than necessary although Prescriptions for Nutritional Healing has many more under depression which might help. One thing they note is the intake of salt can lead to PMS symptoms - and if you have this sensitivity perhaps that is it - get the book it is a must for parents and might help your husband see why.

There is much more information you would have to give if you wished much more advice and I wonder if you have sought professional help? There could be allergens (even in the additives) which are causing chemical imbalances for example - you might be allergic to Yellow Dye#5. Yeast desensitization treatment cures 80% of such allergies.

Going into why your husband is making you feel you have to communicate with your sister and friends about this and the issue of him feeling guilty or putting blame on you would possibly lead somewhere but you can imagine that is not an easy subject to address. Have you studied Yoga? There are many types of Yoga beyond the Hatha or physical which can help you balance your thoughts.

[bnice]

You might want to look into SAM-e. Also, check out a nootropic called Piracetam - more info at http://www.ceri.com/noot.htm

[rhymer]

Read the manufacturers notes here

[Dawn]

HI there,

Thanks for writing me back. I find part of your answer, Robert the Bruce, to be very interesting - in that I may be asking too much about the picamilon instead of looking for other answers/questions. There is some wisdom and really applies to this situation. That day when I wrote the post, I felt like I was freaking out - I think the sudden change in mood from the picamilon not working really was difficult for me. I think my chemical equilibrium was way off and I was in a desperate way to find a replacement for picamilon. The effects of picamilon were that profound for me...

In the past few days, I have been balancing out and do feel better, but know that I do not want to feel anxious/irritable/frustrated without a good reason to be. Yoga is a good idea. I think more than anything what I want is some type of mentor, a teacher to help me. A young marriage, 2 young kids, a new house in a new location far far away from friends and family, and have given up my career is hard for me and I struggle with this new sense of who I am. SO, you can imagine all kinds of issues I could be dealing with.

Anyways, I am not exactly comfortable about broadcasting my entire set of woes on the www. But, I will ask you that if I wanted to speak to a professional about smart drugs and alternatives to anxiety meds, who would I turn to? Our local health food store people are bogus and while I did contact a psychiatrist a year ago and he had no clue to alternatives other than the meds supplied by the large drug companies. I am not that close minded to think all doctors don't investigate/study alternatives, but where might I find a listing or some resources of these doctors?

Or, in the field of nootrophics, am I my own doctor? Is that what this board is really all about?

Dawn

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Dawn

There are certainly better forums than this for getting down to the brass tacks of your situation. The psychiatrists are not students of psychology and you do not even need to study the mind in getting to have a degree or license to practice their drug-pushing art (allopathy).

Naturopathic Doctors are better for your interest in supplements but you have told me enough to know I was right - that is not the problem.

The relationship and career interests are the issue. Finding purpose or Logotherapy is a large part of all problems called psychiatric or mental. Viktor E. Frankl's work led to the Wisconsin School of Psychotherapy and there are some good courses you can find occasionally - like Regeneration House in Toronto. They have courses like these:

Positive Value Systems
Leadership
Owning Yourself

Come join Gods in Training (MSN under Philosophy)and we can discuss these matters with others who are also helpful or having similar issues.

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Dawn

Here is part of a personal story which touches on 'burn-out' and Purpose. It also addresses nutritional issues.

I recommend that everyone should read 'Limits To Medicine' by the ex-communicated Jesuit cleric Ivan Illich. I was reading his work for UNESCO in the educational field at this time, and Sherry was learning about charisma and the Columbus fiction that she was being forced to teach in school. Illich conclusively demonstrates that doctor inflicted illness (he calls iatrogenesis) is rampant in our mechanized and unsoulful system. His friend McKnight the Professor of Urban Studies at Chicago's Northwestern University is an excellent read in 'seeing' how systemic dysfunction plagues our society.


Sherry would not let me kiss her in public when we were in Indianapolis. There was a State Senator by the name of Joanie Gubbins whose ideas of sex and education were receiving a lot of support. Teachers who taught the use of condoms and safe sex in 1976 were seeing their colleagues finding themself out of work whenever a Reduction in Force (RIF) occurred. We were at the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia and during a kiss Sherry looked to see a member of her school board. She decided that was pretty funny and her policy against kissing in public ended soon after. She gradually reduced our creative sexual acts over the next year and had me stop looking into her right eye to connect with her soul during sex. She really didn't want to become too attached to me and had never been 'in love' with anyone. I cannot say that I was able to heal her hypoglycemia with the healing force of LOVE, therefore. Though I am sure my loving energy was enough to do the trick, as they say. However I got her to cut caffeine out of her diet and as she did this her fainting spells stopped. It took three years to get her off the diet drinks that had a lot of caffeine and when that had been finalized she was almost normal except during her time of the month I was also working on getting her to become a committed teacher again.

[Robert the Bruce]

http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga/yoga_nidra_home.htm

[hobden]

This could be a complex problem you have Dawn.

I recommend you seek help from a suitable a professional, clinical psychologist or possibly a psychiatrist.
You might need behavioural therapy +/- some drug treatment. It may also be as simple as
some counselling to get you through this patch.

best wishes

[Robert the Bruce]

It is a complex problem and if you go to those who are selling drugs you will get more than you bargained for and soon be on the road to even more complex problems. There are some psychiatrists who might be helpful - but those who are willing to go against the profession stand a real chance of having their license yanked.

[Robert the Bruce]

http://www.meaning.ca/articles/influence_logotherapy.html

[rhymer]

Hi Dawn,

Your quoted symptoms are:-

frustration
irritability
aggression
narcissism

The last one is quite possibly caused by your realisation of the other three!
I suspect there are many physical complaints as well as mental which give rise to this list.

I agree with hobden; go see your doctor and eliminate simply tested causes before potentially poisoning yourself with unnecessary supplements or drugs. They may just aggravate your health!

Only a doctor can safely diagnose your condition. Many of us on-site suffer from a varied mix of complaints and can offer help when we know what is wrong, but we are not medically qualified [unless stated as so].

You have tried to sort yourself out independently but now is the time to get your health properly on track. You will remain in control and can stop taking doctors advice just as easily as taking it. You do need to be persistent, but, hey, we are talking about the quality of your life here. Continue to investigate and learn as you go - read up on illnesses which are associated with your symptoms [child bearing may well be your indicator].

Keep us informed of your progress - we are learning too!
Good luck, Bill. [depressive].

[Robert the Bruce]

Like many professionals there are people here who do not read and hold forth on things they know little to nothing about. The initial questioner has already seen a psychiatrist - and got exactly what psychiatrists give - nothing!

She said - I did contact a psychiatrist a year ago and he had no clue to alternatives other than the meds supplied by the large drug companies.

Being an informed consumer is awfully difficult when there are so many voices promoting crap and things that are going to actually cause further problems - which is the case with all neuroleptics to some percentage of people. Over time the toxic build-up will cause more problems even for those who merely get hooked and have no initial serious side effects. If those doctors can answer the questions posed by the various authors I have referred you to - then and only then - should you put your future in their hands.

[rhymer]

Where did I say "go see a psychiatrist"?

I said " go see a doctor", and in the UK that is a GP, not a Psychiatrist.

Being an informed consumer who has had success with medications provided is rather valuable as far as I am concerned.
I accept that mistakes are made, but presume and warn potential recipients to persist and change meds or doctors if results are not satisfactory. I also advise reading up on issues.

The toxic build-up you refer to has to be balanced against the risk of taking nothing which can result in adverse consequences anyway. And, not all drugs for mental incapacity are addictive, eg., antidepressants.

You are right to advise caution but need to put it into context.

For example, how many people have been helped rather than hindered by these types of drugs?

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Rhymer

Here is where you said 'go see a psychiatrist' -

I agree with hobden;

Here is what hobden said:

recommend you seek help from a suitable a professional, clinical psychologist or possibly a psychiatrist.
You might need behavioural therapy {Which is not needed - what is likely needed is other modalities like cognitive therapy, logotherapy and psychological counseling of a family planning nature - including Covey's work on communication and other issues causing stress} +/- some drug treatment {Only as a last resort when Trauma exists}.

Again - try to get the books I recommend and see what is being done to you. Those books are from respected researchers and you need something more than what you are getting in the way of information. As to a GP - what would a GP likely know about psychological issues - they would tell you to see someone who knows something about it - unless they are an unusually well informed doctor - but even then they are outside the area of their expertise and would run risks of censure.

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Rhymer

Further to your issues (which are of little help to the person asking a serious 'personal' question here - unless you have two young children and gave up a career, etc.) I suggest you start a thread for them. In that thread give this kind of information:

As you diagnosed with a label like Manic/Depressive or Bi-Polar?

What meds are you taking? Have you a detailed print out of the side effects? Does that print out admit they do not know much about multiple drug effects when also considering the other nutrients that impact on potential side effects - short and long term?

Has the original causes or trauma subsided naturally rather than because of the drugs? Are you facing the same issues and doing better in handling them?

What alternatives have been suggested to you?

Have you tried massage or other therapy? (Acupuncture works better than drugs in a U of T study when the drugs were given alongside psychotherapy and acupuncture was the solitary other side of the study.}

Have you tried yoga - all forms of it?

How long have you been on drugs that are psychologically if not physiologically addictive? Who told you the drugs you are taking are not addictive?

What other conventional modalities have you researched to the point of actual experience?

What causal factors for your condition are likely going to be important for someone trying to help you to consider? (Eg. Genetics, abuse, nutrition)

What do the clinical terms Denial and Projection mean to you?

[Unknown]

Sorry - Rhymer not logged in again!!

That's a bit weak !!

Hobden is saying seek specialist advice and I agree with that.

You have obvious concerns [as we all have] about some cases which have been reported [and I notice you don't answer my question about benefit versus consequences].

And, you have failed to recognise that Dawn may not have psychological problems at all [ what if she has simply become anaemic or is suffering from thyroid problems]?

I can guarantee [100%] that if you came into my house and replaced my antidepressant with a placebo without my knowledge, I would be able to tell within 24 hours [even assuming that placebo was able to suppress the effects of being removed from the drug, (but obviously having no antidepresant effect)].
I realise my depression, as all are, is peculiar to the person, that mine is endogenous rather than reactionary, but for you to dismiss totally the use of 'mental' drugs is in my view and experience, irresponsible.

I have already agreed that there is misuse going on, but that doesn't mean that all prescriptions should be suspect.
Would you stop all prison sentences from being issued because mistakes are made? I suspect not - those badly treated should be compensated adequately and promptly, recognising that humans err [and if they repeatedly err, they should be chucked out of their profession].
Written only in the interests of others and based on my own experience.
Bill.

[Unknown]

Sorry - Rhymer not logged in again.

RTb re your post of 2.47 pm.

You are basically saying I cannot believe what I have experienced and what I have been told.

In that vein I can't credit your advice.
I have the interests of the health of Dawn at heart.
Yes, my career was ended by depression.
No I can't have children.
I have been diagnosed with endogenous depression and read extensively both complicated medical books and from the web.
I try every 6 months to see the effects of stopping my drug but return to symptoms of my depression within 24 hours.
Issues are not a problem for me; mine is not reactionary depression.
I have no need to try yoga because I have found something that works.
I have seen a psychiatrist for 2 years and learned nothing except to say no!
I have been on drugs for about 14 years.
The only causal factor I suspect is genetic but neither of my parents were depressive nor any of my ancestors that I can identify. It just happened!
I assume that denial is not facing up to event(s) - I am not conscious of any.
I asume that projection is a self coping mechanism to obscure somethingunliked - again I am not consious of ant such thing.

Have you ever tried to make a fridge with a faulty thermostat work again by oiling the hinges?

[Robert the Bruce]

Dear Rhymer

If you are experiencing something with the aid of 14 years of drugs and consider that to be research that you can pass along to others - you are suffering more than just depression.

I have no need to try yoga because I have found something that works.


That statement of yours is a perfect example of DENIAL. You really should take your own advice and stay out of this thread. The rest of your post is a testimony to the system that Illich wrote about and the British Medical Journal Lancet called 'a grapeshot across our bow'.

You answered very few of my questions and this is another sign of Denial. Defensiveness about one's addiction is a common event that all therapists witness as their clients Project their issues and anger upon others or engage in transference which is its corrollary and often a co-dependent set up for the eventual lashing-out.

[Robert the Bruce]

I don't answer your question about benefit versus the other because I have already answered it and given references to places and true researchers who address the point - none of which I suspect you have read. I also do not respond to attacks from the afflicted in the manner to which they seek for attention. There are many modalities that I use for such behavior - do you wish to take Enki's spot on the mirror of Gestalt?

[Robert the Bruce]

The part of the brain which separates the two hemispheres can become degraded or depleted due to nutritional uptake issues of a chronic nature. Salk's use of megavitamins that won a Nobel Prize for him was fought tooth and nail against and it took until 2002 at the U of Alabama for his Vitamin C to be demonstrated through research to minimize the debilitating effects of stress and other things assoiated with the immune system.

Dawn is properly taking deep sea fish oils to augment the corpus colossum and lecithin or other additives can also help. The key thing about these areas is stress both physiological and psychological. Thus it is always a mix of factors that must be addressed if true balance is to be achieved.

The medical profession has some high-sounding names for all manner of things to be sure - but in the end most mental illness relates to stress and physical well-being. The labels they give allow many weak or victimized people to use the crutch that they are ill and so do not need to try to grow - sad indeed.

http://www.pulsemed.org/depressionq&a.htm

[Unknown]

If the way you guys mince and spar with your words is an indicator of the passion and devotion you have for your quest for deeper meanings, I feel as though I am in authenthic company, as well as way over my head to be considered a peer.

I agree with Robert that my problems stem from psychological issues. Because I have not sought out help from someone that could help me untangle my mess, I have sought solace in supplements that allow me to deal with not solving these issues. The frustration and irritability and narrcissm comes from me not doing what I want to do, ie. allowing others to make decisions for me, and from a poor sense of self esteem since I feel as though I am not accomplishing much these days (other than cleaning up mess after mess after mess) and from me confronting reality and not always liking what I see.

When you fight reality, you always lose, I have found out. You know what? I think most importantly, I need to grow up ( I am 32) and be the role model that I want my girls to emmulate. I must also point out that my own mother is a poor role model, so I draw on no comfort from her or that fact. If that means I need to seek some help, I need to get on with it. It could be that I need to return to the woman I used to be and draw from those strengths. Having this complete change in what and who I am has been most disturbing to my core and I have gone from being a very self sufficent woman to one that has trouble making simple decisions.

I am glad I visited this site and have had the honor of your opinions. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated and I will research them when I get a little time to myself.

I have no physical ailments, by the way - I want that to be known that I have no other sources of discomfort other than the ones I have been imposing on myself.

I appreciate your time - I really do.

Respectfully yours,

Dawn

[Trip like I do]

[Robert the Bruce]

Always good advice - as you say:

I would start by doing some psychological research on the causes of irritabillity, narcissism etc., and some answers should be forth-coming.


Remember you are never really angry at others - just at your own shortcomings in dealing with a situation. So laugh at yourself a lot!

[rhymer]

Dear Dawn and RTB,

I now realise the mistake I have made !!

I saw Dawn's post via 'recent posts', and did not realise that it was part of the Nootropics Board.

I do now realise this mistake and apologise profusely for trying to direct you down the Western 'scientific' route to healing which I have chosen.

I have the greatest respect for nootropical approaches and believe they should be used more often [and carefully as an adjunct to western ideas].

I wish you well and hope you will forgive me.

All the best, Bill.

[Unknown]

I just wanted to say that I admire Dawn for taking the courage to be so honest with herself and, now, with the whole world. Having known her personally for twenty years, I can say with much confidence that her seemingly mere existence in this world has added more light and substance to my life than all others combined. I am blessed to call her my sister and even more honored to call her my best friend. I love you Dawn - and from the looks of the responses you generated - I'm not the only one!

[Unknown]

Koombahya...

While I love my sister dearly, this isn't the venue to espouse our feelings for one another on the nootrophics website. Anyways, thanks again for your suggestions and I welcome your helpful advice.

(Just don't tell me you love me...)