Deprenyl: The Anti-Aging Smart Drug Options

[Unknown]

Deprenyl: The Anti-Aging Smart Drug


Deprenyl (trade names Eldepryl, Jumex) was developed by Professor József Knoll, of Semmelweis University in Hungary. It has been extensively researched since the 1950s and has been used by millions as a treatment for Parkinson's disease. Recently, deprenyl has been recognized as one of the most promising (and safe) drugs for treating Alzheimer's disease. Deprenyl is also one of the first drugs proven to extend maximum lifespan in animals, and it has been found to act as a cognition-enhancer in normal, healthy animals. As a bonus, deprenyl also acts as an aphrodisiac in male animals and some men. Because it corrects so many of the typical problems associated with aging we can justifiably call it an anti-aging drug.

Sex Enhancement
We have received a steady stream of reports from men (usually over age 50) who note increased libido after taking deprenyl. This is not surprising, considering the number of animal studies that have consistently shown dramatic increases in the sexual activity of old male rats (see the graph on page 37 [Knoll, et., 1983]). As far as we know, there have been no studies of deprenyl's aphrodisiac effects on normal, healthy humans, although our anecdotal reports would seem to indicate that human experimental results would parallel those of animal studies.

Life Extension Effects of Deprenyl
The oldest living humans live to about 110-120 years. This is the maximum lifespan for humans under normal conditions. However, the average human lives to be only about 70 or 80.

The maximum lifespan in rats is about 140 weeks (approximately three years), but the average life expectancy is, of course, considerably less than that. To extend the average lifespan means to increase the number of rats living to be older than the average. Many substances have been shown to extend the average lifespan of laboratory animals (for example, vitamin E and BHT). Some scientists think these substances may also increase the odds of humans reaching closer to the maximum lifespan of 110-120 years. Deprenyl, on the other hand, has been shown to extend maximum lifespan in rats by about 40%! This would be like a human living to 150 years of age! And if the animal research holds true for humans, a hundred-year-old would look and feel 60.

The graph above illustrates a normal survival curve and how that curve changes with life-extension techniques that increase average lifespans. As the average lifespan is increased, death is postponed to later ages and the survival curve (white arrows) becomes progressively squarer, approaching the dashed-line maximum. With average-lifespan increases, the maximum lifespan is not increased, but a greater percentage of the population approaches the maximum age.

The bottom graph (facing page) illustrates the effect of a generalized slowing of the aging process itself, where both average and maximum lifespan are increased. Deprenyl has extended both average and maximum lifespan in animal studies.

The figure below depicts the dramatic lifespan increase in old rats treated with deprenyl, compared to placebo-treated controls. Note that all of the control animals had died well before the first of the deprenyl-treated rats had died. Data from three groups of rats are displayed. The broken line represents the rats no longer exhibiting any sexual activity, the thin line represents the rats still exhibiting some sexual activity, and the bold line represents rats still able to sexually function (although not necessarily well). The higher sexed rats generally lived longer, in both the deprenyl and control groups.

Some conservative people will want to wait until deprenyl's life-extending effects are proven on humans before they take it themselves. If such studies are initiated, everyone waiting for the results will be long dead before the study is ever completed. Our guess (and the guess of most people familiar with the research) is that deprenyl will do exactly the same thing to humans that it does to animals slow down aging . This is why many people we know (including the authors) are taking deprenyl.

Deprenyl for Alzheimer's Disease
Deprenyl has become a powerful new weapon against Alzheimer's disease. In a study in Italy, 10 Alzheimer's patients were given either a placebo or 5 mg of deprenyl twice a day for two months. The results showed that deprenyl improved memory, attention, and language abilities among those who received the drug, while those who received placebo became worse [Agnoli, et al. , 1992]. Another study of 20 Alzheimer's patients treated with deprenyl for six months also showed significant improvements in memory and attention [Piccinin, et al., 1990].

Verbal memory was tested in patients with Alzheimer's disease in yet another double-blind randomized crossover trial which also lasted 6 months. Each subject was tested before, during, and after the study with the Rey-Auditory-Verbal Learning Test. Deprenyl brought about a significant improvement in verbal memory, and improved information processing abilities and learning strategies at the moment of acquisition [Finali, et al. , 1992].

Numerous other studies have shown similar positive results in people with Alzheimer's disease [Goad, et al. , 1991; Finali, et al., 1991; Sloane, 1991; Mangoni, et al. , 1991; Martini, et al. , 1987]. Dr. Knoll [1992] states bluntly that Alzheimer's disease patients need to be treated daily with 10 mg deprenyl from diagnosis until death. See our Suggested Treatment Protocols chapter for specifics on the use of deprenyl for people with Alzheimer's disease.

Deprenyl Versus Other Drugs for Alzheimer's Disease
Oxiracetam (a nootropic drug similar to piracetam see the chapter on oxiracetam in Smart Drugs & Nutrients) was tested against deprenyl in a trial involving 22 men and 18 women with mild-to-moderate Alzheimer's disease. Ten milligrams per day of deprenyl were given to one group and 800 mg per day of oxiracetam were given to the other group. The results showed that at these doses, deprenyl was more effective than oxira- cetam in improving higher cognitive functions and reducing impairment in daily living. Deprenyl helped more with short- and long-term memory, sustained concentration, attention, verbal fluency, and visuospatial abilities. Both drugs were well tolerated with few or no side effects [Falsaperla, et al. , 1990].

In another study, deprenyl was compared to phosphatidylserine in forty people with Alzheimer's disease. The dosage of deprenyl was 10 mg per day and that of phosphatidylserine was 200 mg per day. Both treatments lasted three months. For most measures of cognition, the deprenyl group did better [Monteverde, et al. , 1990]. (See the Phosphatidylserine chapter in this book.)

Deprenyl was also compared to acetyl-L-carnitine (ALC) in forty people with mild-to-moderate Alzheimer's disease. Deprenyl (10 mg per day) was slightly more effective than ALC (500 mg twice daily), but we believe that the dosage of ALC may have been too low. However, it is interesting that both drugs were effective [Campi, et al. , 1990]. (See the Acetyl- L-Carnitine Update chapter.)

Deprenyl Improves Cognition in Parkinson's Disease
Deprenyl is becoming recognized as the treatment of choice for people with Parkinson's disease. Although it is well known that deprenyl dramatically slows down the progression of the disease, it is not so widely recognized that deprenyl also improves cognition in people with Parkinsonism. Several studies show that deprenyl improves attention, memory, and reaction times in Parkinson's patients. It also brings about subjective feelings of increased vitality, euphoria, and increased energy [Lees, 1991].

Deprenyl significantly delays the progression of Parkinson's disease under many conditions. Newly-diagnosed patients treated with deprenyl take far longer for their symptoms to become bad enough to require L-dopa (L-dopa used to be the drug of choice for Parkinson's disease). Many patients on deprenyl never require L-dopa . In addition, advanced Parkinson's patients treated with deprenyl plus L-dopa live longer than those treated with L-dopa alone.

Better Than Chocolate
Deprenyl is chemically related to phenylethylamine (PEA), a substance found in chocolate and produced in higher-than- normal amounts in the brains of people who are in love. Deprenyl's chemical structure is also closely related to amphetamine which, like PEA, is able to cross into brain neurons and trigger the release of the neurotransmitter's norepinephrine, epinephrine and dopamine. The release of these neurotransmitters causes mental stimulation and increased alertness.

Deprenyl, however, does not trigger neurotransmitter release. In this respect, deprenyl is unique among PEA derivatives. Deprenyl is a member of a class of drugs called monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors. MAO is an enzyme responsible for breaking down used neurotransmitters so that they can be excreted. MAO levels tend to rise with age, and as a result, brain levels of monoamine neurotransmitters like dopamine tend to fall with age.

MAO inhibition can correct this age-related decrease in neuro- transmitters. However, when MAO is over-inhibited, neuro- transmitters can build up to excessive levels causing neuronal hyperstimulation hence the `speediness' effect of amphetamines. Deprenyl manages to avoid this side effect by inhibiting only a selected form of MAO.

Forms of Monoamine Oxidase
MAO enzymes are found throughout the body and come in two known types: type A (found in most body tissues), and type B (found predominantly in brain glial cells). Glial cells are small brain cells which surround and metabolically support the neurons which conduct the electrical signals throughout the brain.

Most MAO inhibitors are unselective, inhibiting both MAO-A and MAO-B to a similar degree. When MAO-A is inhibited (as with amphetamines, for example), a dangerous high-blood- pressure reaction can occur in patients who eat certain foods like aged cheeses, chianti wines, and chicken liver pat*, which contain a chemical called tyramine. Tyramine is usually metabolized by MAO, and inhibition of MAO causes tyramine to dangerously accumulate. This same high-blood-pressure reaction can occur in patients taking L-dopa disease. Unlike other MAO inhibitors, however, deprenyl inhibits only MAO-B. It does not cause the cheese reaction and it can be safely administered with L-dopa.

Deprenyl was the first selective MAO-B inhibitor to be described in the scientific literature. Over the last 30 years, it has become the reference standard for MAO-B inhibition. It is still the only one in widespread clinical use today.

How Does it Work?
Deprenyl is the only drug known to selectively enhance the activity of a tiny region of the brain called the substantia nigra. The substantia nigra is exceptionally rich in dopaminergic (dopamine -using) neurons. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that regulates such primitive functions as motor control and sex drive. Deficiencies of dopamine result in Parkinson's disease symptoms.

Degeneration of the neurons in the substantia nigra is implicated not only in the development of Parkinson's disease, but also in the aging process itself. Deprenyl protects against the age-related degeneration of the substantia nigra and dopaminergic nervous system. It also protects sensitive dopamine -containing neurons from age-associated increases in glial cells and the MAO-B that they contain.

Deprenyl also inhibits the degrading of neurotransmitters and boosts the release of dopamine. Deprenyl-induced enhancement of brain function manifests in several dramatic ways. Dopamine is crucial to sex-drive, fine motor control, immune function and motivation. The steep decline of dopamine -containing neurons in the human brain after age 45 is a universal characteristic of the aging process. The tiny substantia nigra region of the brain is richest in dopamine and undergoes the most rapid aging of any brain area. It is the premature aging of this region which causes Parkinson's disease. On the other hand, normal age-associated depletion of dopamine accounts for many other symptoms most notably the gradual decline of male (and, possibly, female) sex drive.

Variable Aging in the Brain
The rate at which the dopamine neurons age is quite variable. Prior to age 40-45, dopamine levels remain fairly stable. Starting at age 40-45, average dopamine content in healthy individuals decreases by about 13% per decade (see illustration below). When it reaches approximately 30% of youthful levels (gray area), Parkinson's symptoms result. Below 10%, death results.

Those with average or slow decline die of other causes before Parkinson's symptoms become apparent. In fact, it has been suggested that if we all lived long enough, we would all even- tually develop Parkinson's disease. As average and maximum lifespan is increased, the use of deprenyl will become even more critical for the prevention of dopamine -deficiency degenerative diseases. Treatment with deprenyl may come to be a central strategy in geriatrics.

Dopamine activity in the brain is also increased by acetyl- L-carnitine (see the Acetyl-L-carnitine Update chapter).

Deprenyl for Depression
Deprenyl alone, or combined with phenylalanine, is often very effective at relieving depression. Phenylalanine is an amino acid that acts as a precursor (a chemical building block) to neurotransmitters such as norepinephrine.

In 1984, in Vienna, Dr. Birkmayer and colleagues treated 155 patients (102 outpatients and 53 inpatients) who were suffering from unipolar depression. The patients were given 5-10 mg of deprenyl and 250 mg of L- phenylalanine per day. The outpatients were treated orally, and 68.5% achieved full remission. Of the remaining patients, 21.5% achieved moderate improvement, 6% were unchanged, and 4% dropped out.

The inpatients were treated intravenously.Of these, 69.5% achieved full remission, 11% exhibited mild to moderate improvement, 12% showed no improvement and 7.5% dropped out. The therapeutic effect started one to three weeks into the treatment.

The beneficial effect of the daily intravenous infusion was maintained when the dose was reduced to twice a week, and also when switched to oral dosing. The authors noted that the outstanding clinical efficacy of deprenyl-plus- phenylalanine for depression was equaled only by electroconvulsive treatments (ECT) without the memory-loss side effect of ECT. The side effects of the deprenyl-plus- phenylalanine were primarily sleep lessness, anxiety , and tension (these could probably be eliminated by decreasing the dose of phenylalanine, or adding a serotonergic precursor like tryptophan). The treatment was well tolerated in 90% of the patients, and no withdrawal symptoms were noted in any of the patients.

In another study conducted in Chicago, 6 out of ten patients suffering from drug-resistant major depressive disorders considered their depression totally relieved after only 2-3 days treatment with 5 mg of deprenyl, 100 mg of vitamin B6, and 1-6 grams of phenylalanine per day. Their Global Assessment Scale scores dropped by 33% and stayed down over the remaining 6 weeks of the study [Sabelli, 1991]. The patients had been suffering from numerous depressions including manic depression, bipolar type II depression, schizoaffective disorder, seasonal affective disorder, and unipolar recurrent depression. Further double-blind research is underway. The relatively slow response in the first study and fast response in the later study is probably due to the difference in phenyl- alanine dosage (250 mg vs. 1000-6000 mg respectively).

Conclusion
Deprenyl's low level of toxicity, few side effects, and uniquely broad spectrum of pharmacological activities make it ideal for protection against brain aging and the age-related decline of the dopargic nervous system. Deprenyl is the drug of choice for Parkinson's disease and is currently being established as a treatment for Alzheimer's disease. Eventually, deprenyl may become recognized as a general preventive treatment for aging and age-related degenerative diseases in the above-45-year-old population.

Precautions
Deprenyl is very safe. No mutation-causing or birth defect-causing effects have been observed with deprenyl . In animal experiments, the LD-50 (lethal) dose is approximately 300-500 times greater than the dose required for complete MAO-B inhibition. Human patients have tolerated up to 60 mg of deprenyl per day for over three weeks without difficulty. The hypertensive reaction that occurs with MAO-A inhibitors following ingestion of tyramine-containing foods (like cheese, chianti wine, beans, chicken liver) has not been observed in patients taking the standard 5-10 mg dose of deprenyl. This response is observed to some degree at the 60 mg dose.

Dosage
For Parkinsonism, the recommended dosage of deprenyl is 5-10 mg daily. For the healthy population 45 and older, Dr. Knoll recommends 10-15 mg per week. For 45-year-olds, we think this dose may be high. For younger people, much smaller doses may suffice. Some people take only tablet (1.25-2.5 mg) once a week. One manufacturer of deprenyl, Discovery Experimental and Development, recommends a more gradual, age- related dosing schedule which takes full advantage of their 1-mg-per-drop liquid deprenyl.

Deprenyl causes a general stimulation of mental function that is distinctly different from that of other nutrients and drugs ( phenylalanine, tyrosine, L-dopa , and amphetamine). Most people report a mild-to-moderate anti- depressant effect, increased energy, improved feelings of well-being, substantially increased sex drive, and more assertiveness . The effect is mild in low doses and can last for several days.

As the dose of deprenyl is increased, symptoms of overstimula- tion can result. People have reported feeling over-amped, sexually overstimulated, nauseous, irritable, emotionally hyper-reactive, and even detached from their surroundings. When too much deprenyl is taken, the stimulation that it produces becomes L-dopa-like or amphetamine-like which can become tiresome because it lasts so long. At high doses, many people report such sleeping disturbances as vivid dreams, nightmares and insomnia. With deprenyl, more is not necessarily better. As with most smart drugs, starting with low doses and increasing gradually is the best policy. When combining smart drugs you may need to reduce the dosages.

Sources
Also called l-deprenyl, L-deprenyl, (-)deprenyl, selegiline, Jumex, or Eldepryl, deprenyl is available throughout the world. As Eldepryl, deprenyl is available from any pharmacy in the U.S. or Canada with a physician's prescription. It is also available from a number of overseas mail-order pharmacies. You can obtain a list of such sources by mailing the tearout card at the front of this book to CERI (the Cognitive Enhancement Research Institute). CERI also publishes Smart Drug News which frequently includes information of interest to people who are using (or want to use) deprenyl. A high purity liquid deprenyl manufactured by the Discovery Experimental and Development company (Wesley Chapel, Florida) has been submitted for approval by the FDA . It is already approved and available in Mexico. Discovery's liquid deprenyl has the added convenience of being dispensable in single milligram doses (1 mg per drop) as opposed to the standard 5 mg tablet. This makes it easier for healthy 40-50 year olds to take the correct amount (see the Dosage section in this chapter.)

References
Agnoli A, Fabbrini G, Fioravanti M and Martucci N. CBF and cognitive evaluation of Alzheimer type patients before and after MAO-B treatment: a pilot study. Eur Neuropsychopharmacol (Netherlands) 2(1): 31-5, March 1992.
Birkmayer W, Riederer P, Linauer W and Knoll J. L-Deprenyl plus L-phenylalanine in the treatment of <$IDepression>depression. Journal of Neural Transmission 59: 81-7, 1984.
Brandeis R, Sapir M, Kapon Y, Borelli G, Cadel S and Valsecchi B. Improvement of cognitive function by MAO-B inhibitor L-deprenyl in aged rats. Pharmacol Biochem Behav (USA) 39(2): 297-304, 1991.
Campi N, Todeschini GP and Scarzella L. Selegiline versus L-acetylcarnitine in the treatment of Alzheimer-type dementia. Clin Ther 12(4): 306-14, Jul-Aug 1990.
Carillo MC, Kanai S, Nohubo M, et al. (<196>)-Deprenyl induced activities of both superoxide dismutase and catalase in young male rats. Life Sci 48: 517, 1991.
Falsaperla A, Monici Preti PA and Oliani C. Selegiline versus oxiracetam in patients with Alzheimer-type dementia. Clin Ther 12(5): 376-84, Sep-Oct 1990.
Finali G, Piccirilli M, Oliani C and Piccinin GL. Alzheimer-type dementia and verbal memory performances: influence of selegiline therapy. Ital J Neurol Sci 13(2): 141-8, March 1992.
Finali G, Piccirilli M, Oliani C and Piccinin GL. L-deprenyl therapy improves verbal memory in amnesic Alzheimer patients. Clin Neuropharmacol (USA) 14(6): 523-36, 1991.
Goad DL, Davis CM, Liem P, Fuselier CC, McCormack JR and Olsen KM. The use of selegiline in Alzheimer's patients with behavior problems. J Clin Psychiatry 52(8): 342-5, August 1991. Also see comments, J Clin Psychiatry 53(3): 101-2, March 1992.
Knoll J. (<196>)Deprenyl-medication: A strategy to modulate the age-related decline of the striatal dopamine<$IDopamine>rgic system. J Am Geriatr Soc 40(8): 839-47, August 1992.
Knoll J. Extension of lifespan of rats by long-term (<196>)deprenyl treatment. Mount Sinai J Med 55: 67-74, 1988.
Knoll J. Pharmacological basis of the therapeutic effect of (<196>)deprenyl in age-related neurological diseases. Med Res Rev (United States) 12(5): 505-24, September 1992.
Knoll J. Pharmacological basis of the therapeutic effect of (<196>)deprenyl in age-related neurological diseases. Med Res Rev (United States) 12(5): 505-24, Sept 1992.
Knoll J. The pharmacology of selegiline ((<196>)deprenyl). New aspects. Acta Neurol. Scand. 126: 83-91, 1989.
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Knoll J. The possible mechanism of action of (<196>)deprenyl in Parkinson's disease. Journal of Neural Transmission 43: 239-44, 1978.
Knoll J. The striatal dopamine<$IDopamine> dependency of lifespan in male rats. Longevity study with (<196>)deprenyl. Mechanisms of Aging and Development 46: 237-62, 1988.
Knoll J, Yen TT and Dallo J. Long-lasting, true aphrodisiac effect of (<196>)deprenyl in sluggish old male rats. Mod Probl Pharmacopsychiat 19: 135-53, 1983.
Lees AJ. Selegiline hydrochloride and cognition. Acta Neurol Scand Suppl 136: 91-4, 1991.
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Mangoni A, Grassi MP, Frattola L, Piolti R, Bassi S, Motta A, Marcone A and Smirne S. Effects of a MAO-B inhibitor in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. Eur Neurol (Switzerland) 31(2): 100-7, 1991.
Martini E, Pataky I, Szilagyi K and Venter V. Brief information on an early phase-II- study with deprenyl in demented patients. Pharmacopsychiatry (Germany, Federal Republic of) 20(6): 256-257, 1987.
Milgram NW, et al. Maintenance on L-deprenyl prolongs life in aged male rats. Life Sciences 47: 415-20, 1990.
Monteverde A, Gnemmi P, Rossi F, Monteverde A and Finali GC. Selegiline in the treatment of mild to moderate Alzheimer-type dementia. Clin Ther 12(4): 315-22, Jul-Aug 1990.
The Parkinson Study Group, Effect of deprenyl on the progression of disability in early Parkinson's disease. The New England Journal of Medicine 321: 1364-71, 16 November 1989.
Piccinin GL, Finali G and Piccirilli M. Neuropsychological effects of L-deprenyl in Alzheimer's type dementia. Clin Neuropharmacol 13(2): 147-63, April 1990.
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Schneider LS, Pollock VE, Zemansky MF, Gleason RP, Palmer R and Sloane RB. A pilot study of low-dose L-deprenyl in Alzheimer's disease. J Geriatr Psychiatry Neurol (USA) 4(3): 143-8, 1991.
Tariot PN, et al. L-Deprenyl in Alzheimer's disease: Preliminary evidence for behavi- oral change with monoamine oxidase B inhibition. Archives of General Psychiatry 44: 427-33, May 1987.

[Unknown]

I tried deprenyl and didnt like it. It partly metabolises into amphetamine and methamphetamine. I felt over-stimulated, very numb, detached from my environment, paranoid, neurotic, and intense hunger. Maybe I took too much - that was just only one day on 5mg.

[Tone]

You arent alone, i dont like it either .. ill use the rest up in low doses but not daily, its very good for you this way anyway

[mayonaise]

If you become paranoid on a dopamine booster, then it is possible that your serotonin is low.

[Hey Hey]

citations, unknown, tone and mayonaise, or just anecdotal?

[mayonaise]

http://home.ramonsky.com/stuff/icmm/ch18.html

Search for "paranoia"

[Tone]

If you become paranoid on a dopamine booster, then it is possible that your serotonin is low.

then stablon should be a paranoia drug shouldnt it?

what if you hate serotonin, hate all SSRIs, hate 5-HTP and hate serotonin boosters, but love stablon and opioids?

[mayonaise]

then stablon should be a paranoia drug shouldnt it?

Emphasis on the word "possible"; there can be other variables.

what if you hate serotonin, hate all SSRIs, hate 5-HTP and hate serotonin boosters, but love stablon and opioids?

That makes you a freak I don't think there's anything strange in that. Eveybody's different.

[Isse]

Ive tried this drug also. Im currently on SSRI (50mg/d) and started slow.
First 1mg. About 2h later another 1,5mg. Another h or so the remaining 2,5mg of the pill.

I dint notice much of an effect at all. Maby some good feeling although it might have been placebo.

Today i took 5mg after breakfast with my SSRI. Now 2h afterwards still no apparant effect. Maby the dosage is to low? I will try 10mg dosage befor i stop using them and put them off for later use or something.

I read some disturbing thing about deprenyl today as I was researching it some more. I initially thought it was reversible inhibition of MAO-B. I found it was irreverible!! I also read the MAO-B activity restabalize at normal levels 5-7 days after discontinuing selegiline therapy. Im still quit concerned about the long-term effects of this on the brain if one is not old and have alzheimer.. What is your hypotosese on the brainchemestry?! Can the body dismantel the missfuncional enzymes and inhibited neurotransmitterpumps? If not one could excpect accumulation of useless proteins on and around the cells. Maby this can account for neuroprotection though? Althoug if the seregilin molecule inhibits the uptakepumps irreversible it might affect the membranetransmission I in my wary wonderings am a bit concerned about.

[Isse]

I took 10mg today and I think I experience a mild diffuse effect of memory enhancement althoug at this mild effect its difficult to distinguish from placebo.

I will be tested for drugs on monday and im a bit worried about it showing positive for amphetamin. If one stop using aphetamin its out of the system in 2-3 days. How does it work with Deprenyl? I would guess the same day although the metabolism of enzymes with molecules stuck on them might prolong this effect??

[NISARG]

I will soon try deprenyl 5 mg and I will update you guys...on my experiance along with Stablon ...

[Isse]

I will soon try deprenyl 5 mg and I will update you guys...on my experiance along with Stablon ...

I have tried Deprenyl at parties two times susccesfully. I Usualy dose first 15mg, and 1½-2h later another 10-15mg. At this does I feel a faint amphetamine alertnes. Although at 15+15 The effect on the Serotonin with my SSRI becomes a bit scary.

[PhilMcCock]

I'm not really smart about these things but it was my understanding that deprenyl only affected NA
and a little bit on the dopamine.

[Sheila]

Hi
I am a healthy athletic health professional with some recently noticed memory loss and declining libido that I thought was just a phase. My husband would be really happy if was enhanced. . I am at work and I just (45 minutes ago) took 5 mg Deprenyl. I feel euphoric, but I rode my bike to work and its a sunny day. To be honest I dont feel anything yet. After reading further it looks like I should only take it 2-3 times per week. I will keep you posted if anyone cares.

[Rick]

It's also Friday and that may have something to do with it. But I hope it works for you. Let us know.

[LifeMirage]

I'm not really smart about these things but it was my understanding that deprenyl only affected NA
and a little bit on the dopamine.

Deprenyl is selective MAO-B inhibitor in low doses. MAO-B breaks down several neuruochemicals including Dopamine and PEA.

[webby]

LifeMirage,

Do you see any adverse issues with Piracetam daily and Deprenyl 3x week? Relative dosing will require trial and error, but in general? I am not asking for medical advice per se but from your read of the literature in general.

The only thing I take is Nexium.

[LifeMirage]

LifeMirage,

Do you see any adverse issues with Piracetam daily and Deprenyl 3x week? Relative dosing will require trial and error, but in general? I am not asking for medical advice per se but from your read of the literature in general.

The only thing I take is Nexium.

I don't mind giving advice and I don't see a problem as long as you take your nootropics at a different time from your meds.

[code buttons]

I will be tested for drugs on monday and im a bit worried about it showing positive for amphetamin. If one stop using aphetamin its out of the system in 2-3 days. How does it work with Deprenyl? I would guess the same day although the metabolism of enzymes with molecules stuck on them might prolong this effect??

Good question.

[adam3482004]

I have a question for you guys...

I'm thinking about taking Deprenyl after all the glowing reviews of it.

However, I read that it's an "irreversible" MAOB inhibitor. The "irreversible" (As opposed to reversible part) has been holding me off from taking this particular nootropic in the past. What does it mean exactly? I've looked online and all I could really find under the term "irreversible" were chemical warfare agents. Can anyone set the record straight on this one? Are there lasting permanent effects from taking smaller dosages of deprenyl on a daily basis?

[shady]

I have a question for you guys...

I'm thinking about taking Deprenyl after all the glowing reviews of it.

However, I read that it's an "irreversible" MAOB inhibitor. The "irreversible" (As opposed to reversible part) has been holding me off from taking this particular nootropic in the past. What does it mean exactly? I've looked online and all I could really find under the term "irreversible" were chemical warfare agents. Can anyone set the record straight on this one? Are there lasting permanent effects from taking smaller dosages of deprenyl on a daily basis?

Irreversible implies suicide inhibition of the enzyme. Basically the enzyme is permanently inhibited and broken down in the proteosome. Aspirin is an irreversible "suicide" inhibitor of COX-1. This is why the effects of deprenyl may take 1-2 weeks to wear off. The enzyme needs to be synthesized via transcription/translation which takes time. You were probably reading about ACHE suicide inhibitors that covalently bond and age the enzyme.

[LifeMirage]

I have a question for you guys...

I'm thinking about taking Deprenyl after all the glowing reviews of it.

However, I read that it's an "irreversible" MAOB inhibitor. The "irreversible" (As opposed to reversible part) has been holding me off from taking this particular nootropic in the past. What does it mean exactly? I've looked online and all I could really find under the term "irreversible" were chemical warfare agents. Can anyone set the record straight on this one? Are there lasting permanent effects from taking smaller dosages of deprenyl on a daily basis?

It means the effects can last at least 2 weeks from 1 dose. It may have permanent effects if taken too often especially in higher doses. What is your interest in it?

[adam3482004]

It means the effects can last at least 2 weeks from 1 dose. It may have permanent effects if taken too often especially in higher doses. What is your interest in it?

I was thinking about taking trying it out. It seems to have been marketed as a relatively safe drug/nootropic for quite a while. The term "Irriversible" has kept me from trying it out though. There are other dopamine based drugs like Amphetamine that I wouldn't touch (the oxidative stress and wear/tear on the brain is pretty high). There are even more safe "Inhibitors" (like Methylphenidate) that are supposed to be great for a dopamine boost but have the unfortunate net result of downregulating your receptors over time (along with desensitizing them). There's even dopamine precursors like L-dopa that are said to cause oxidative stress.

Deprenyl however, works thru a different mechanism where besides directly inhibiting or agonizing dopamine's release from a nueron, it inhibits MAOB instead (which is used to break down dopamine in the body) and is supposed to resensitize receptors. There are however, some concerns:

1) How the irreversible mechanism exactly works.

2) If the amphetamine metabolite like structure means it will have a similar action to amphetamines.

[Phi]

It's been a week on deprenyl(5mg tablets) so far and today seemed to be different. My head feels heavy/tingly as if I'm about to come up on something fun...but I wonder if it's just because I slept a lot more the past day.

Anyway, I'm hoping to keep an experience updated here...but I'm about to add PEA 750mg in the morning when I take the deprenyl. The dosages are supposed to differ, but I'm curious myself as to how deprenyl alone will keep increasing. Hopefully it hits the next notch when the PEA comes in.

Any suggestions on this combo would be appreciated, and I will keep all updated.

[mk-ultra]

It's been a week on deprenyl(5mg tablets) so far and today seemed to be different. My head feels heavy/tingly as if I'm about to come up on something fun...but I wonder if it's just because I slept a lot more the past day.

Anyway, I'm hoping to keep an experience updated here...but I'm about to add PEA 750mg in the morning when I take the deprenyl. The dosages are supposed to differ, but I'm curious myself as to how deprenyl alone will keep increasing. Hopefully it hits the next notch when the PEA comes in.

Any suggestions on this combo would be appreciated, and I will keep all updated.

Do you by any chance feel that maybe deprenyl with coffee may make you a lil too cranky.?
It had that effect on me when I tried it. I'm waiting my next batch of deprenyl (along with stablon for the first time) this week.

I'm glad this thread has been brought back to life!
Really, all we have is pubmed's data shrouded in statistics and this website. (and maybe that other website with the cryogenics nutsos)

[Phi]

visually yes, physically no...for the crankiness.
Stablon with deprenyl would seem strange as a guess

[mk-ultra]

visually yes, physically no...for the crankiness.
Stablon with deprenyl would seem strange as a guess

Interleaved by a few hours. I'm not taking both at the same time.

[Phi]

well the deprenyl/PEA combo works just fine. Much more cost effective than PEA alone, and the effect seems cleaner...whereas nausea can develop easy for myself on just PEA alone.

3 times a day is pushing it for myself, two being more practical( and depending on the time they are spaced will determine if I add deprenyl again); as the effect decreases until the next day...and it just seems like a waste to do so. I personally don't have to be flying all the time, but it's a hell of a lot better for when I'm about to go to work.

I'll keep posting on the efficacy as I find out some new things.

The next things will be how my eating habits change, sleeping changes [probably including how PEA made me have the kind of dreams that made me wake up drenched with sweat(unusual for me) and the feeling that that's the most intense shit I've ever experienced], and physical changes (most likely more endurance/motivation)

Hope you enjoy

[Phi]

Irreversible implies suicide inhibition of the enzyme. Basically the enzyme is permanently inhibited and broken down in the proteosome. Aspirin is an irreversible "suicide" inhibitor of COX-1. This is why the effects of deprenyl may take 1-2 weeks to wear off. The enzyme needs to be synthesized via transcription/translation which takes time. You were probably reading about ACHE suicide inhibitors that covalently bond and age the enzyme.

So how is that supposed to affect the person?

[LifeMirage]

It means the effects can last at least 2 weeks from 1 dose. It may have permanent effects if taken too often especially in higher doses. What is your interest in it?

I was thinking about taking trying it out. It seems to have been marketed as a relatively safe drug/nootropic for quite a while. The term "Irriversible" has kept me from trying it out though. There are other dopamine based drugs like Amphetamine that I wouldn't touch (the oxidative stress and wear/tear on the brain is pretty high). There are even more safe "Inhibitors" (like Methylphenidate) that are supposed to be great for a dopamine boost but have the unfortunate net result of downregulating your receptors over time (along with desensitizing them). There's even dopamine precursors like L-dopa that are said to cause oxidative stress.

Deprenyl however, works thru a different mechanism where besides directly inhibiting or agonizing dopamine's release from a nueron, it inhibits MAOB instead (which is used to break down dopamine in the body) and is supposed to resensitize receptors. There are however, some concerns:

1) How the irreversible mechanism exactly works.

2) If the amphetamine metabolite like structure means it will have a similar action to amphetamines.

A simple reply.

1. It acts like a substrate for MAO-B (not unlike PEA), however it forms a permanent bond with MAO-B making it unusable for breakdown of it's substrates. This is not very different from how L-huperzine A works.
2. Small amounts convert into amphetamines which play a minor role in it's effects. I don't see this as a concern any more than using small doses of Levomethamphetamine otc.

L-DOPA is neuroprotective provided you don't overdose and you have a healthy functioning dopamine system.