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> Self-Hypnosis, Help a teen.
Lindsay
post Jan 18, 2007, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 16, 2007, 12:36 PM) *

laugh.gif Lindsay avoids dialog...
Now, that really is a joke. laugh.gif
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Enki
post Jan 18, 2007, 08:42 AM
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maximus242
post Jan 18, 2007, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.
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Gahan
post Jan 18, 2007, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 18, 2007, 02:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.


Not all of us have access to a university library.
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Lindsay
post Jan 18, 2007, 09:55 PM
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Max
QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.
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Enki
post Jan 19, 2007, 09:48 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 09:55 PM) *

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


Dear Mr. Lindsay,

I really respect you and it is always very interesting and a great pleasure to communicate with you, indeed. I will highly appreciate if you answer on one question:

"Are you going to do that online for anonymous users of this very forum willing to learn this art?"

With best wishes,
Yours Enki
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Lindsay
post Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM
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Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.

BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?

What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.
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maximus242
post Jan 19, 2007, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 10:55 PM) *

Max
QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


This all seemed a rather pointless statement. Lindsay do you know about the diffrent physical effects that occur based on hypnosis?

Besides, all communication is hypnosis. Everyone enters and exits hypnosis daily, they dont need to be taught anything, only realize they can already do hypnosis.. seeing as they do it every day.

Things like daydreaming are actually hypnosis. A good visual story can easily induce hypnosis, its rediculously easy actually, let me explain the steps in learning hypnosis.

- Basic Theory and First Hypnotic Induction
- Learning and expermineting diffrent induction techniques
- Exploring the perspective limits in hypnosis
- Expanding the experiments done while under hypnosis
- Achieving deeper states of hypnosis
- Slowly working up the ability to do more complex exercises
- Achieving deep hypnosis and living through the guided imagry
- Conducting perspective and sensory alterations
- Inducing hallucinations
- Changing Perceptions at will
- *This is where most people see the final limit of hypnosis, there wrong, most people never make it close to this point*
- Cell to sub-conscious communication
- Altering Body, starting at the cellular level
- Causing changes in reaction, time perception, muscle structure and whatnot
- Enhanced Neurological control

I think you get the point

You move from hypnosis to NLP to DHI to Autogenic Training.

Milton Erickson, being the incredible man he is, was actually able to help a 19 year old girl grow breats after a lifetime of failure using hormones.. Milton Erickson stepped in and only using his words and some exercises, caused the girl to change her body.

Very few people know the extent you can take hypnosis to. You can enlarge the size of your blood vessels, cause yourself to become deathly ill or pump adrenaline to your muscles to cause a surge of super human strength.

Milton knew how powerful hypnosis really was, he could cause the mind to think at super speeds - faster than the most advanced computers (altering time perception *hard to do, need a very experienced subject*)

Lindsay, I think you want to distrubute hypnosis to the public because you dont fully realize what hypnosis is capable of, I suggest you read the MKULTRA files before doing so.
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Lindsay
post Jan 19, 2007, 04:03 PM
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Max, until we dialogue enough for me to really understand the point you are trying to make, we will have to put things on hold, for now.

IMHO, knowledge is there for all who want to know.
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Enki
post Jan 19, 2007, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *

Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.


It is natural and normal that people prefer to communicate anonymously, that philosophy is implanted into all Forums’ associated software. Some like to communicate openly, but anyway, even in that case it is hard to say that we know each other well. Up to know it is a mystery for me why such an intelligent and old person as Rick is still is an atheist, I initiated dialog related with the Inborn ideas of Descartes and Leibnitz’s fontanel egg but I still do not understand his phylosophy well, anyway, or why RTB was so unfriendly to Cheshire cat before, whatsoever.

I advise the following: if you wish to teach, then teach the art to those whom you know in person. Definitly internet provides alluring opportunity of meeting and talking with different people but open exchange of those arts may endanger the reliability of social institutions, all knowledge have multiple applications. People are such creatures that in state of anger may apply any art in quite specific ways. But nonetheless, I guess that it is possible to have online community of interesting people scattered and sleeping all around the world. smile.gif Community organizing conferences world wide, helping to find and help each other after so many years, and chartering open international societies promulgating Wisdom and Knowledge and Freedom among nations. E.g. by building a network of beautiful, cozy libraries worldwide which by grace of their old style architecture will attract those who want to learn. As a start such libraries can be chartered online. It is not a crime to visit a library online and read books from the shelves ornamented in nice, reach, old manner. If some time be spent, a good graphics be created and a beautiful philosophy of online libraries be grown and proper books be put on shelves in proper order in proper virtual rooms where proper sculptures and paintings will look at visitors of the rooms, then those who seek will find what they look for and one day they will find and knock the door of the proper building.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?


I think that such danger exists. You never know who can reemerge on the second face of two-faced Januses during utilization of the art as a byproduct of the peaceful activities. Just reliability issues and Common Sense. Some children always will strive to open unknown closed doors to find out what is over there, children should be guided.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.


I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
I have no doubt that you are wise enough and know what to talk about. Many of my friends use Skype as well, but I do not use it, because there are quite many extremely curious, morally unhealthy and aggressively ignorant people in civil services of far away countries...
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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 05:23 AM
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Enki, you wrote:
QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?
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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 06:41 AM
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You keep talking about danger
QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 08:07 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 05:23 AM) *

Enki, you wrote:
QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?


I am sorry, but that story will stay in the unwritten chapters of human history.
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 08:11 AM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 06:41 AM) *

You keep talking about danger
QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I agree, knowledgeable people always should say something, though in some countries it is quite unsafe to do so. But does that relate to specific knowledge spreading? I guess not. You are mixing something or I do not understand you well.
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maximus242
post Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM
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I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"
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Joesus
post Jan 20, 2007, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.

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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 11:08 AM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM) *

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"
Fear not. I have the strong feeling that those who choose to stay asleep, are very clever at finding the opiates, including certain mind-numbing religions, they need to assist them. laugh.gif

The corollary of this is: Those who need to and want to WAKE UP are clever enough not to let the obscurants stop them. Look what happened to that "sleeping giant, China".
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maximus242
post Jan 20, 2007, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:56 AM) *

QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.


Intresting thoughts Joesus, though the enlightened by god part could be replaced with enlightened by life. It is true in todays society we often seek out forms of approval and justification from society.
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Joesus
post Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM
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But those external forms of validation are only temporary.
If one believes that life exists only within the terms of the physical world then one will not open themselves to anything beyond those terms of definition.

Authority then is interpreted as the majority.

God is not Democratic.
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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 12:01 PM
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BTW, "egotist" that I am, I post in more than one forum. I have noticed that in every forum where I post my views and opinions they always attract some strong detractors who often express their outrage. I love it, when this happens. Doesn't every writer?

The following is one small example. It is found in the topic, started by another poster, Tim, who starts a lot a topics and then says nothing. Interesting. The title is "Evidence for God"

After I made my usual appeal for people to be open to new words and ideas and the value of open-ended dialogue, this is what followed, from a poster with the appropriate initials DAM.
==================================================
Revlgk troll wrote:
"I am a great believer in the art of dialoguing" [quoting me]

Dialoguing is NOT a word. It is just more new-age woo-woo imbecility. And what you are posting is not science. [without one shred of evidence]

Rose ... please kill this thread ... all of it ... without mercy. This isn't science. This isn't even "not-quite science." This is a malignant troll.
===========================================
[And there was much more. However, this popular thread, with a large and growing number of clicks, is still there. I look forward to getting DAMed, often. My suggestion is--unless there is real substance--keep it brief, and impersonal--focuss on what I write, not on me.
============================================
Recently, to make the point that even scientists are interested in spirituality, and in talking how science and religion can work together, I wrote as follows:

THE GREAT INVENTOR AND GENIUS, NICOLA TESLA
I forgot to mention the work of Nicola Tesla--the son of a Serbian Christian Orthodox priest.
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

He was a highly spiritual person, but not being a narrow Orthodox Christian, he struggled with the rather narrow idea of God as taught by his religion.

Keep in mind that polytheism, and later, monotheism, came about when even the wisest people believed the earth was a flat disc with heaven above and hell below. We need not blame them for this, if they really believed in a flat earth, but surely when the Christian monk, Copernicus brought new knowledge to the west he should have been honored, not censored and threatened with death by the knowledge Luddites? For over a hundred years knowledge was held back by the obscurants.

OBSCURANTISM
Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance, obscurantism--the active opposition to progress and and the spread of knowledge, is something else. It is, IMHO, a great evil.

COSMOTHEISM
Back to Tesla, interestingly, he finally came to the conclusion that what is needed is a combination of Christianity and Buddhism. Interestingly, Buddhists are non-theists. I think of them as cosmotheists. Yes, new ideas need new words.

BTW, Christianity is already a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. I would even add the positive forms of Islam, Sikhism and Brahmanism to the mix. IMHO, in all this orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.

JESUS ADVOCATED ORTHOPRAXY. That is he called us to loving actions, deeds not just creeds--follow me, he said. Perhaps this is why he never wrote a book. Books tend to make us fixed-position thinkers--" IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!! (BTW, I am not opposed to felxible creeds, nor books.)

He told stories, or parables, which are stories of actions. His parable of the Good Samaritan--who, BTW, was not a Jew--in Luke 10 is about orthopraxy. I love the last sentence of his teaching: "GO then, and DO the same!"

THAT ALL MAY BE ONE
The same kind of teaching is found in John 10 and 17:20-26. His basic prayer is that "all may be one"--he called on all humanity to act as one.

The over-all philosophical term for this approach is, pragmatism--the doing of that which is morally valuable and good--the kind that was advocated by the great Christian philosopher/psychologist William James, of Harvard.

One final thought: "The secret of true unity is the love of variety." Does anyone know who said it?
I am waiting for some DAM comments. smile.gif
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Joesus
post Jan 20, 2007, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE
The corollary of this is: Those who need to and want to WAKE UP are clever enough not to let the obscurants stop them. Look what happened to that "sleeping giant, China".

Speaking in terms of waking up, as in the soul/mind awakening to its Self awareness this analogy doesn't fit.
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Joesus
post Jan 20, 2007, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE
BTW, "egotist" that I am, I post in more than one forum. I have noticed that in every forum where I post my views and opinions they always attract some strong detractors who often express their outrage. I love it, when this happens. Doesn't every writer?

Yes those that need something from others feed off of the attention.

QUOTE
The following is one small example. It is found in the topic, started by another poster, Tim, who starts a lot a topics and then says nothing. Interesting. The title is "Evidence for God"

After I made my usual appeal for people to be open to new words and ideas and the value of open-ended dialogue, this is what followed, from a poster with the appropriate initials DAM.
==================================================
Revlgk troll wrote:
"I am a great believer in the art of dialoguing" [quoting me]

Dialoguing is NOT a word. It is just more new-age woo-woo imbecility. And what you are posting is not science. [without one shred of evidence]

Rose ... please kill this thread ... all of it ... without mercy. This isn't science. This isn't even "not-quite science." This is a malignant troll.
===========================================
[And there was much more. However, this popular thread, with a large and growing number of clicks, is still there. I look forward to getting DAMed, often. My suggestion is--unless there is real substance--keep it brief, and impersonal--focuss on what I write, not on me.
============================================
Recently, to make the point that even scientists are interested in spirituality, and in talking how science and religion can work together, I wrote as follows:

THE GREAT INVENTOR AND GENIUS, NICOLA TESLA
I forgot to mention the work of Nicola Tesla--the son of a Serbian Christian Orthodox priest.
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

He was a highly spiritual person, but not being a narrow Orthodox Christian, he struggled with the rather narrow idea of God as taught by his religion.

Keep in mind that polytheism, and later, monotheism, came about when even the wisest people believed the earth was a flat disc with heaven above and hell below. We need not blame them for this, if they really believed in a flat earth, but surely when the Christian monk, Copernicus brought new knowledge to the west he should have been honored, not censored and threatened with death by the knowledge Luddites? For over a hundred years knowledge was held back by the obscurants.

OBSCURANTISM
Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance, obscurantism--the active opposition to progress and and the spread of knowledge, is something else. It is, IMHO, a great evil.

COSMOTHEISM
Back to Tesla, interestingly, he finally came to the conclusion that what is needed is a combination of Christianity and Buddhism. Interestingly, Buddhists are non-theists. I think of them as cosmotheists. Yes, new ideas need new words.

BTW, Christianity is already a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. I would even add the positive forms of Islam, Sikhism and Brahmanism to the mix. IMHO, in all this orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.

JESUS ADVOCATED ORTHOPRAXY. That is he called us to loving actions, deeds not just creeds--follow me, he said. Perhaps this is why he never wrote a book. Books tend to make us fixed-position thinkers--" IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!! (BTW, I am not opposed to felxible creeds, nor books.)

He told stories, or parables, which are stories of actions. His parable of the Good Samaritan--who, BTW, was not a Jew--in Luke 10 is about orthopraxy. I love the last sentence of his teaching: "GO then, and DO the same!"

THAT ALL MAY BE ONE
The same kind of teaching is found in John 10 and 17:20-26. His basic prayer is that "all may be one"--he called on all humanity to act as one.

The over-all philosophical term for this approach is, pragmatism--the doing of that which is morally valuable and good--the kind that was advocated by the great Christian philosopher/psychologist William James, of Harvard.

One final thought: "The secret of true unity is the love of variety." Does anyone know who said it?
I am waiting for some DAM comments.


It's all about "YOU". The egoist needs validation from the outside and feeds off of attention.
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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 12:30 PM
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Enki, et al: I trust you will understand me when I write as follows:
I find no value in dialoguing with posters who have so little of substance to say that they have to quote all of what IIIIIIII write, when they respond. laugh.gif

I want people to discuss the message. If anyone really wants to talk to me and about me--and I have had a long and interesting life--Let's do it in the "Introduce Yourself" section.

There, anyone may ask any question you want. Maybe I will go there and tell everyone about my love life, etc. It was all fun, and still is. And I am serious smile.gif
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maximus242
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:04 PM
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People are always most intrested in themselves, want proof? Look at a group photo with you in the group, first person you will look at is yourself.

This is basic human psychology. I do not see this God as an authority unless I choose to give it the power to be one.
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM) *

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"


You see how wise morpheus can be sometimes. smile.gif
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:19 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM) *

God is not Democratic.


You want to say Jeosus, that the Great Old Democrat is not a Democrat, possibly you prefer German and not English variant Got = Great Old Tyrant, though Great Old Titan can be used as well? wink.gif He is Greatest Democrat ever known, he is not so Almighty as some try to present him (in a way many common people understand that), thus making him responsible for any crime and unjustice in this world.
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:25 PM
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You know, Republic of People under guidance of the Republic of Heavens & Other Places. smile.gif laugh.gif
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Enki
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 12:30 PM) *

Enki, et al: I trust you will understand me when ...


You know, do not put me together with “et al”. It is apt to you what you write. But I am sure that the acme of human existence cannot be shaken only because some gentlemen want to illuminate mankind in accelerated mode because they eager to see the tales of the past to be realized during their lifetime.

The Matrix is on the watch Lindsay, do not forget about that. smile.gif
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Lindsay
post Jan 20, 2007, 01:36 PM
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Enki, I have always wondered: Why do GOP Republicans--and Democrats--pray, "Thy kingdom come..." when they say the so-called "Lord's Prayer" laugh.gif

Which brings me to ask: "God, how do you vote?" smile.gif
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post Jan 20, 2007, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:56 AM) *

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.


Certainly, all the books are shelved on the shelves of the Invisible College and other Invisible Institutions, Hagward included. Lidsay suggests to Xerox them and spread freely to everybody. I think it is not a good idea.
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