Salvia Trip Meter Options

[solartrinity]

"Higher states of consciousness are not temporary altered states created by chemical manipulation that isn't permanent"

Why do you feel as if i have cheated by using chemicals to find enlightenment? Any enlightenment i have discovered through experimentation of drugs is still enlightenment and i am sure i will continue to find other higher states of conciousness still with out drugs just the same. Everyone learns who they are and higher consiousness at different paces, it isnt a race and if we go on to exist eternally then i am certainly happy to be patient for the answers to come in thier own time.

I have looked at various religons and beliefs and taken on my own religeon and beliefs and my own ways of meditation and tuning into my inner energys as well as using drugs on various occassions.

I did that myself until I realized I couldn't do it on my own. The Ego never asks for help.

I think if you cant find your own beliefs and listen to what your heart and soul tell what truly feels the right way for you then maybe you havent figured who you really are or havent accepted parts of yourself yet or what direction to take to find your higher self. You cannot learn to embrace any other understanding of life until you know and accept who you are yourself? Thats how i found it to be for myself.How can you love or trust anything else in life if you do not know love and trust for yourself.

I dont claim that may be the case for you as everyone finds themselves in different ways I just know I have looked at other religeons and ideas and asked for help and guidance from within myself it has been a long journey to know who I am and accept myself for my faults as well as my qualitys, i accept my mistakes and wrong desisions. I think acceptance of who you are is the key to understanding.

Please dont think i am being judgemental or acting like I am an expert on enlightenment, I am far from either. I am just sharing my views and opinions.

[Hey Hey]

"Higher states of consciousness are not temporary altered states created by chemical manipulation that isn't permanent"

Why do you feel as if i have cheated by using chemicals to find enlightenment? Any enlightenment i have discovered through experimentation of drugs is still enlightenment and i am sure i will continue to find other higher states of conciousness still with out drugs just the same. Everyone learns who they are and higher consiousness at different paces, it isnt a race and if we go on to exist eternally then i am certainly happy to be patient for the answers to come in thier own time.

Have you ever thought that by using chemicals to change the biochemistry of your brain, the enlightenment you experience is no longer experienced by YOU, for YOU have changed. To achieve enlightenment of your true self should be an objective. And that might not have so many potential side effects! ()

[Culture]

"Higher states of consciousness are not temporary altered states created by chemical manipulation that isn't permanent"

Why do you feel as if i have cheated by using chemicals to find enlightenment? Any enlightenment i have discovered through experimentation of drugs is still enlightenment and i am sure i will continue to find other higher states of conciousness still with out drugs just the same. Everyone learns who they are and higher consiousness at different paces, it isnt a race and if we go on to exist eternally then i am certainly happy to be patient for the answers to come in thier own time.

Have you ever thought that by using chemicals to change the biochemistry of your brain, the enlightenment you experience is no longer experienced by YOU, for YOU have changed. To achieve enlightenment of your true self should be an objective. And that might not have so many potential side effects! ()

I have found myself in a fairly unique situation, where I have spent the last 12 years or so experimenting with substances like DMT/Mescaline/2-CB/LSD/Mushrooms. I then also stopped the experimentation and spent two years as a monk (in Nepal) in silence, The effects of the meditation and silence was phenomenal and at times really frightening. I would not choose one of these experiences over the other, Both have brought benefits that I would not have had before.

[solartrinity]

"Higher states of consciousness are not temporary altered states created by chemical manipulation that isn't permanent"

Why do you feel as if i have cheated by using chemicals to find enlightenment? Any enlightenment i have discovered through experimentation of drugs is still enlightenment and i am sure i will continue to find other higher states of conciousness still with out drugs just the same. Everyone learns who they are and higher consiousness at different paces, it isnt a race and if we go on to exist eternally then i am certainly happy to be patient for the answers to come in thier own time.

Have you ever thought that by using chemicals to change the biochemistry of your brain, the enlightenment you experience is no longer experienced by YOU, for YOU have changed. To achieve enlightenment of your true self should be an objective. And that might not have so many potential side effects! ()

I dont know much about biochemistry so i find it hard to comment on the changes there by using chemicals to alter my conciousness to a different level, all I can say is that I found the use of hallucagenics helped me see a larger view of the world and perception that i hadnt been able to see before as i didnt know it existed. The chemicals opened doors and pathways in my brain that gave me intuition and insight, so yes i supppose it changed me as me but i know I didnt dissapear and a new personality slip into my head. I still feel like Emma and I feel peace in myself still along with a deeper understanding and a deeper intuition. Maybe you can explain biochemistry and what really using hallucagenics achieves if it isnt inlightenment. I would be very interested in how you achieve enlightenment and give me an insight into how you felt when you experienced it. It is a very personal experience and the day I am having on the board Im starting to wonder if its worth trying to explain for fear of being seen as being deluded.

I know shamanism and history of religeon have used chemicals to reach enlightenment and go on inner journeys of discovery is it so wrong to have done this ?

I would be very interested to hear other peoples stories of self discover and experiences for a change.

emma
xxxxx

[trojan_libido]

I have never had such a burst of passion and reinvigorated spirit than when I saw a brief glimpse of what I percieved was the truth. The experience was one I was incapable of conveying in any way i tried, but it gave me the curiosity and passion to get through hundreds of dry books/topics and diverse cultural histories. I've probably spent the last 6-8 months doing more personal research than I have since I left school 12 years ago. Meditating, reading books on religion and science, learning ancient languages (Heiroglyphs), starting a computer and mathematical science degree and becoming extremely passionate about spirituality (not religion).

All of this from a single, small dose of LSD. Was it worth the "risk"? Damn right.

I'm very interested in the experience of Joesus:
What experiences have you had and what with?
How many?
What made you stop it?
When and how did you find your version of enlightenment?

Emma:
I was intrigued by peoples opinion of how you should raise children. Since it would have diverted this thread somewhat, I posted in a new topic. You might be interested in taking a look.
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16642

[Hey Hey]

It is a very personal experience and the day I am having on the board Im starting to wonder if its worth trying to explain for fear of being seen as being deluded.

Your views and opinions are important. Don't take things so seriously - sometimes short and sharp replies just reflect the medium we are using and not the attitude of the person posting (see my signature).

But the biochemical changes are important to understand. There are lots of links on the web to explain the biochemistry starting at an elementary level. I recommend that you have a look at some of these as a prelude to examining the ways that drugs work, or at least appreciating how complex many of the mechanisms are and hence how dicy it can be playing about with the pathways.

The experiences people can have are varied and often unpredictable, but one thing is certain: many of the experiences are meaningless in terms of the actuality of what you experience. For example, what is the enlightenment you experience? A better appreciation of God? Well, how do you know that your experiences are anything to do with God, anymore than a schizophrenic hearing voices hears actual voices, whilst non-schizophrenics around him/her hear nothing. What is reality? Yes, BIG questions arise from this interference with "normal" brain chemistry. (And don't start getting philosophical about the semantics some of you observers).

So what is it that you experience, how meaningful is it and where does it take you. If you feel satisfied in some way, fine. But why stop with drugs. Why not try some electricity, or bungee jumping, flatlining (I'm not serious)? How about lucid dreaming?

Have a good time here, but explore the science behind the experience: it's both frightening and fascinating!

[Joesus]

Seriously, are you a closet Scientologist?

No, but I am aware that certain things happen for a reason and I'm not against the desire to free ourselves from suffering of any kind.
Lets just say that what we create within the prison walls of our mind are not often seen as a motivation to create something different by freeing the mind from the prison walls we created naturally and for a reason.
To curcumvent a process that is necessary for growth to get where you think you should be when your not there is a best guess not a certainty.

Without being dramatic about the pros and cons of this and that, I see the benefit of understanding our relationship between mind and body/world.
If you create a medical remedy for aging and give it to a buch of stupid people then you have a bunch of stupid people who live for a long time, but if you lead a bunch of stupid people to greater understanding, then they may improve their lives by understanding the mind/body relationship extending their lives enhancing their lives and enhancing the world around them making it a better place for all.

Krisnamurti was one who was born in an exalted state of mind, an enlightened state of mind but without having lived in ignorance he couldn't help anyone trace a path to enlightenment and he didn't grasp their ignorance. Enlightenment is not a cure for the lack of understanding and knowledge if it doesn't encompass all knowledge, and not all states of consciousness that are called enlightenment are lived from omniscience.

My comments on the taking of drugs to reach altered states of consciousness is based on my own experience. The best Trip I ever had with LSD was at a party on Orcas Island in the San Juan Islands on July 4th 1976. The party was called the Orcas Orgasm and with the help of some Labratory LSD I had the most exalted experience of my life. Unfortunately I was unable to do anything normal while under the influence in any manner that I was used to because the world kept changing around me. I was having conversations with a buddy of mine and neither of us spoke a word. We both remembered the conversation afterward but couldn't repeat the experience.

Altered states under chemical influence are random and inconsistent.
Treating depression or schizophrenia with drugs is not a cure, it is a process of using medication to achieve results that have to be monitored and re-evaluated on a regular basis.

I think its great that everyone sees the potential for greater experience of life and nothing is going to change the way people approach the desire. Experience is a great teacher yet there are certain things that don't have to be reinvented, but no one is going to listen to the voice of reason if they are fighting for the right to discover something for themselves.
Take Solartinity as an example, she claims to be a good parent but the life she leads in experimentation is the need for self expression, and a dual life. As long as she maintains that mindset it will be passed on to her children and they are likely to have the same desire as she did to be free from what anyone else thinks and to do what they will according to their own way of thinking, regardless of what anyone else thinks. They may decide to be her children while they are around the house but like their mother leave the home to be something else, take drugs, have sex and all without her knowledge.

The desire to be free is a great desire if you believe you aren't free, but the real desire is for fulfillment and no drug is going to give you lasting fulfillment. It may give you an exprience but all the experiences in the world do not set you free if you are still looking for more experiences to get more freedom, especially if you have to return to the mundane world after you come down from the altered state.

Emma. Your altered states are not higher states of consciousness. You are still living in a dream world of duality where you are still trying to find yourself by amassing enough experiences to make a determination of who you are.
Each time you get high and have a great experience you think you get closer to who you really are but you still remain in the same place dreaming of the ideal place and creating illusions in systems of self measure, like the salvia trip meter.
The Ego believes it can measure itself and its enlightenment.

[Joesus]

Yeah Dammit! Do what you gotta do, and if your heart tells you everyone else is f****d up then F**K everyone else..and tell your kids too.

[Edited for bad language - Hey Hey]

[Joesus]

You told me to nail myslef to a floor, to commit suicide, told me im a terrible parent and that my kids are doomed. Cant wait to see what comes next....

Well I'd say when you get over the idea that the world is against you, you'll be able to understand what I really said.

So what comes next is going to be based on your ability to comprehend using a bit more of your left hemisphere of the brain rather than mostly your right.

[lucid_dream]

People may say what they want about me but i just put it down to jealousy that i am content to take experiences without having to label it will a name and description to please everyone.

You haven't roused anyone to jeolousy. Why would you think that, as opposed to thinking that people simply hold different opinions and values from you? If you saw a homeless heroin addict on the street and admonished him to get his life back together, do you think the homeless heroin addict is correct in thinking that the person is jealous of their situation? Of course you're not a homeless heroin addict, but the assumption that people who disagree with you are jealous, as opposed to holding legitimate contrary viewpoints, is the same assumption in your case as in the homeless heroin addict's case.

Without being dramatic about the pros and cons of this and that, I see the benefit of understanding our relationship between mind and body/world.

I'm glad to hear that. About the drama, I was trying to bring some to the conversation but you didn't bite. But it looks like other parts of this thread are providing sources for drama.

Dianah, is there an animus between you and Joesus, and if so, what's the cause?

[code buttons]

It is a very personal experience and the day I am having on the board Im starting to wonder if its worth trying to explain for fear of being seen as being deluded.

Your views and opinions are important.

Hi, and welcome Solartrinity. Please do as Hey Hey says. I say so from my personal experience. I came here with a, what anyone else would have considered a delusional story. I had a lucid-dream or vision, whichever you want to call it, culmination of a 24-year quest. And I knew I had to share it with someone. But I wasn't sure with whom. Because I knew that nobody I knew would be remotely interested in such far-fetched story. But I had to share it because I considered that it was important. And that I couldn't, shouldn't keep it to myself. Lo and beholf I found BM through Google. And, would you beleive it, this simple layman that I am, found a receptive audience amongst these veteran scientists and artists! They took me in, and made me feel right at home.
And that's the beauty of BM. This is a very special bunch of people. A very unique bunch of like-minds, from all walks of life, who share one main common denominator: Our interest in the mysteries of the mind and it's true potential; which we haven't even remotely started to tap into yet, I might add.

[trojan_libido]

No problems from my camp Emma. I am cool and clever too, its official! *psst, not sure about these other guys haha*

[Hey Hey]

I want to apologise for flying of the handle and being on the instant defense about something i had read and acted on before my brain had processed the full meaning of things trying to be said. Like i said when i joined i am not very gud at reading or being able to put into words how i am feelin inside. I have speent time lookin at my posts defending the trip meter and they have come across so wrong to how i wantwed them to sound so no wonder ive gone off on one when i got the response I got reading back it comes across using the wrong words in the wrong places and my mix up of higher conciousness, enlightenment and experiences as just simkilar words i come across as i am a narrow minded arse hole who instead of saying alternative experience I look like i have got enlightenment of a 100 yr old Zen master instead. Maybe if i slowed down a bit instead of trying to type my opinions to some popel at long last who i can share my feelings with on similar discovers I could have expressesd them them a hell of a lot better. I have even realised the trip meter i seemed to go off on one about was tge joke one and not the one of levels of consiousness, grrr I so think i need to start again tio try and explain using my senses properly to realise what i am posting by reading it througgh making sure it sounds how ik am trying to be percieved.
I am hot headed at the best of times and seem to havce took a constructive fdiscussion as my strong feelings bein judged, i think i need to think again, stand back and learn from my mistakes. I intend to repost with a betrter use of wordfs. if you are willing to listen. I want to learn so much so quickly and looking through the forums i think im going to be a nightmare understading clever physics and stuff it looks like a completely differnt language you lot of people seem a cool bunch and cleverer than any people i have ever met luckilly you seem patient enough to try and see i have some ideas just havent got a very good explanatory of em.

Emma
xxxxxx

I will warn you i hgave only just learnt maths properly so this a journey for a holly grail of undersranding new learnt stuff at your funny wiggly line and equation stuff

Peace and fun.

[Joesus]

Nice recovery, felt that left hemisphere kick in.

[solartrinity]

Nice recovery, felt that left hemisphere kick in.

I was having a bad day and having a bit of a mania, you may find i actually looked at come brains today and nervous systems . Aparently they can take photos of your brain with special equipment so that you can see what damage you have and they can look at thend results and see what mental ill ness you have.

[Hey Hey]

Aparently they can take photos of your brain

If they took a photo of my brain I think all they would get is a negative ( ).

[naldoisgone]

I've been to level 4, looking forward to level 5. Does anyone have similar scales for other drugs?
[/quote]


dont go any farther! trust me

[Flex]

[quote name='naldoisgone' date='Mar 26, 2008, 07:41 AM' post='88556']
I've been to level 4, looking forward to level 5. Does anyone have similar scales for other drugs?
[/quote]


dont go any farther! trust me
[/quote]

PiHKAL has a scale. You can read through the text online free--I think you will enjoy it.

[derekownsyou]

You got all off topic when you first came in joesus. Just to say I thought that was a little rude to the author of the post. You have alot of wisdom and I dont doubt that you have had your share of experiences but the topic of the post was if anyone knew of any other meters for trips or highs. Its a little disrespectful to come in and change subject automatically but when you shift the mans post to something off topic you have gone too far. I'm not into forums that much but i tried salvia twice so far. The first time was at the beach and I got a level two where the walls and scenery began to vibrate and my thinking became more of a game than life. Either way I tried it again today and reached a level five. I was tripping with my buddy and as soon as I exhaled I completely left this world. The room seemed to merge into one and almost like a file cabinet I could pick apart the different aspects of the room I was in but lost complete sensation in my body. My mind took me to places I havent ventured to before. I ended up somehow getting up and running out of my friends house. That was about the time when I came back to myself but it got more intense after that. I came back to my friend who had done his hit and he was thrashing around and I couldnt stop asking him if we were good. I didnt even know I had ran outside until that point and somehow my green lighter ended up in my pocket when I had left it out in the car in the beginning. There were also voices throughout the duration of the trip. It only lasted about 15 minutes but by the end of it I had become fascinated with finding out more about it.

[trojan_libido]

I believe what you describe is very similar to the effects of DMT documented in 'The Spirit Molecule'. I guess the hallucinatory mindscape has these strange Big Wheel spinning rides, meaningful tasks, and Alien tours. I believe these similarities are important to understanding the mind and its role.