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> My world view
Laz
post Mar 31, 2004, 11:25 PM
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why does the world work the way it does?

Put simply i believe it works this way because we expect it too. Each of us humans has an abilty to create reality in front of our noses, we work in sympathy with eachother, and sometimes in opposition. Reality is the way it is, because we pass our expectations of it on to our children; and they on to theirs. So the world exists as a mental construct that is real because we make it exist. We have built rules inside of the construct that are obeyed, not because they are the truth, but because we expect them to be obeyed on mass.

One person has a knock on effect on another, in dispute they cancel out, or one person combined with another produces a stronger effect. Reality is the sense we have made of chaos in the universe, if one wants to see the chaos then one only needs to learn meditation or take some mind expanding drugs. Outside of these things if someone displays delusions we say they are mad because they do not conform to everyone elses understanding of the world. They may be closer to the truth than anyone else, but they are locked up and drugged as a delinquent of society. If a whole bunch of people get together and state that something is true, then they are creating the something and making it real through their combined strength. If others witness this something and like it, the group will be accepted by society and given a name like science, or religion. If society does not like it they will go to great lengths to destroy the believers. Once the believers are out of the picture that particular truth dissapears.

A key to this reality is stopping the programming in your head, and then looking at the world from a fresh perspective. I believe the chattering in you head that everyone experiences is placed there by society, it is your safegaurd, your virus checker, your backup system. It tells you what is and what is not, according to society. If it does not speak to you and you are free to make your own decisions about life then you will see that it does not work as expected. The human mind is capable of doing so much without thought, its astounding to me just how much of everyday life can be dealt with without any conscious thought. I think therefore i am, is how most people view life, but if you stop thinking you are still a part of life, still conscious but a little free'er.

without this programming that can be called ego or many other names, life is open to interpretation. You are in control, whatever that means, because what you are trying to control is chaos itself. you may succeed in controlling part of your life in society but you are just controlling the parametes of a model. Thinking is a way of working out the rules of the model, but this is not how to work out the rules of life itself. That requires faith, and we wonder into the relm of God.

What is God? You are.

That is as far from the truth as it is close to it. The Christian bible says that God made us in his image, well we are all gods then. but we deny our own existence, and our own power. we have created the world we see, all of us in communion. We can change it if we want to, but it will take all of us to see the truth, without that we can only perform minor miralces, small deeds to astound our friends. We can at best become magicians in this world. we can exert a small control of minor events and if another watches you try, and is not aware of their god status and control attributes they will no doubt be full of dissbelief for there programming, and like a karnaugh map for an AND gate, they will stop the power you contain from having any effect.

1&1 = 1
1&0 = 0
0&1 = 0
0&0 = 0

that is why it makes sense to collect power, collect and store it, only use it when you have to, because you are nothing if you do not. you may be a god but you will not be able to act as one, not be able to break the 1&0 = 0 rule, and so you believe that you are not who you are. Fear and hatered will cloud your mind and you will be unable to see the truth that is in front of you. Watch for those people who do not share their thoughts with you, who stay quite when others talk, those who will not tell you the truth when you ask a question. These peole have a power, it is something they do not understand, but they have it none the less. Understanding the power allows you to compete, to rival them but from your point of knowing the underlying truth you may vanquesh them. Those people will look selfish to others, you will too, but you know the difference. you are a god, they are only playing at godlike behaviour. However don't reveal their game to them as they will not believe you and you will lose some of your own power, instead compete with them in their game and win. form a group of like minded individuals and compete on mass, start your own religion, your own science, as your group grows you will have more influence over the world at a fundamental level, you will control it.


The more that you fear us the bigger we get, and don't be surprised if you discover it. Marilyn Manson, Disposable teens.
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Dan
post Mar 31, 2004, 11:32 PM
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the question is, then, what do you intend to do? And, if you know the answer to this question, how do you go about doing it?
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Laz
post Mar 31, 2004, 11:36 PM
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I don't intend to do anything, until I can confirm my hypothesis wink.gif
What do you intend to do?
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Dan
post Apr 01, 2004, 12:08 AM
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of course you intend to do something. For example, you intend to confirm whether or not the force that generates the structure of reality is a function of personal will rather than an external impersonal force. more importantly, it seems that such a question might be meaningful because of an underlying desire to alter the structure of reality for the better. which begs the question, what is better and how good is good enough?


I intend to make the world better until it is good enough, whether or not it is possible
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Laz
post Apr 01, 2004, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE
you intend to confirm whether or not the force that generates the structure of reality is a function of personal will rather than an external impersonal force


I would like to confirm that wink.gif

I wrote most of that world view without knowing what i was writing and without reading it back it just flowed! Personal will or divine force?

Making the world better, is an honourable cause, i would like to do the same smile.gif
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Dan
post Apr 01, 2004, 12:27 AM
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one day I just knew to obey the flow inside, the voice of my feeling..... and soon, flowing, I realized I was free


cool.gif
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rhymer
post Apr 01, 2004, 02:07 AM
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Laz and Dan,

I would just like to ask one question to clarify what you are saying and to see if you are really thinking the same way I do [without imlying that I am right].

If all humans were to die say on Saturday next for some inextricable reason, would the world still exist?

I only ask because you seem to be saying that the world is a construct of our minds.
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Laz
post Apr 01, 2004, 02:09 AM
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Lets kill everyone and find out wink.gif
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Joesus
post Apr 01, 2004, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE
If all humans were to die say on Saturday next for some inextricable reason, would the world still exist?

Would you care, and why?
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rhymer
post Apr 01, 2004, 01:55 PM
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Laz,
Your experiment would be a non-starter [even assuming the last person commits suicide]. Do you think the world would still exist? I do, just as it does now!
Joesus,
I may choose to care or I may not. That issue has nothing to do with my question, though might get some response as a new post [not from me]. Do you think the world would still exist? I do, just as it does now!
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Laz
post Apr 01, 2004, 02:16 PM
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Rhymer, your experiment would be a non-starter. Do you think you could kill everyone on earth?

What you have given me is a thought experiment, which is what I have given you.

You cannot relate everyones experience to your own, a better thought experiment would be to kill yourself, would everyone else still exist?
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rhymer
post Apr 01, 2004, 03:36 PM
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Yeh, I know Laz.
I spose I'm just being silly asking stupid hypothetical questions which might reveal something. In fact they did, I spose!

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Laz
post Apr 01, 2004, 10:14 PM
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np smile.gif

I just need to come up with a real experiment wink.gif
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Joesus
post Apr 02, 2004, 12:50 PM
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user posted imageFirst you would have to define real and associate any experimentation to that reality.
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Dan
post Apr 05, 2004, 03:56 PM
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if the entirety of the structure that binds the 'Dan' experience were to be disassembled, the universe would most definitely still exist and would likely be only slightly changed
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Laz
post Apr 06, 2004, 12:15 AM
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How can you say that for certain? how can you prove it?
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Dan
post Apr 06, 2004, 01:28 PM
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for example, when another person dies I notice that the universe is still existing and in fact is nearly unchanged (a notable difference being the absence of the person who just died)
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rhymer
post Apr 06, 2004, 03:12 PM
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Thanks for answering my question Dan.

I think that one of the most amazing things about all life forms cf. inert chemicals and materials [as we tend to percieve them], is their sheer complexity. And yet animals seem to serve no purpose whatsoever in the scale of the Universe, other than for themselves.

Why should such compexity have formed with no obvious or witnessed benefit for the Universe?
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Guest
post Apr 06, 2004, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (rhymer @ Apr 06, 03:12 PM)
Why should such compexity have formed with no obvious or witnessed benefit for the Universe?

because that's the nature of the universe. You don't ask for what benefit the angles of a triangle sum to 180 degrees, or do you?
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rhymer
post Apr 06, 2004, 03:56 PM
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response to guest post Apr 06 11:24 PM

I know the answer to the triangle question and, therefore, see no reason to ask that question.
I don't know the answer to my question, and consider it worth asking.
You don't need to consider it at all if you find it boring or too complicated; or perhaps because you know the answer?
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Dan
post Apr 06, 2004, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (rhymer @ Apr 06, 04:12 PM)

Why should such compexity have formed with no obvious or witnessed benefit for the Universe?

there are two possibilities as I see it:
1. The configuration of the universe is always randomly arrived at from the perspective of emergent intelligence, and it just happens to currently be in the configuration where complex emergent intelligence via 'life forms' can emerge
2. Through time the configuration of the universe iterates from a more random configuration to a less random configuration (from the perspective of emergent intelligence), with the less random configurations being more likely to support the emergence of complex intelligence

if 1 is true, then we are just plain lucky. If 2 is true, then we are still lucky but, when luck strikes, the luck is intelligently recognized and perpetuated into future universal configurations.
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Laz
post Apr 06, 2004, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE
that the universe is still existing


Carefull Dan, you can't show a ridiculous statement to be ridiculus by providing a ridiculus answer!

What do you know of the universe, how much have you seen?

Everything is relative to your locale, and that's all you have to work with, so forget grandeous ideas of how the universe doesn't change.

I'm pretty sure all the answers we need are right in fornt of our noses, we just have to see them wink.gif
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Dan
post Apr 06, 2004, 11:29 PM
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let's just say I'm making an educated guess
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Laz
post Apr 06, 2004, 11:46 PM
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As a little green alien might say "hmmm, so confident you are in what you have been taught! so blind are you to the truth" or as a computer screen near you might read: Dan, the Matrix has you...

Think for yourself man! what does Dan bring to the party? Don't stand on the shoulders of giants, knock them down, brutally murder them, and then bury them. Einstein, Hawking, Penrose, Kurzweil, who are they? Thinkers, be a thinker too smile.gif
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Dan
post Apr 07, 2004, 12:43 AM
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my confidence is not a product of belief in authority, but is a product of direct personal experience. My question to you would be, why do you believe my position implies that I am blind to the truth?
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Laz
post Apr 07, 2004, 12:54 AM
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It is apparent from your posts that your thinking is constrained, it's in a box, and that box has definate walls that you cannot break. You believe in a model, a system that you have not created and you do not look beyond it.
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Dan
post Apr 07, 2004, 01:02 AM
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my thinking is with purpose, designed intentionally. I build the box, and I can destroy the box. What box are you in?
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Laz
post Apr 07, 2004, 01:08 AM
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I am building bridges, not boxes that have been started by someone else. I am not hear to preach the virtues of science, christianity, ascention, or any other religion in a box.

I am not a disciple of any of these things, I am here to share and build rather than limit my thinking. I want everyone to build bridges wink.gif
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Dan
post Apr 07, 2004, 01:25 AM
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I am not building a box started by someone else, I am not preaching the virtues of any religion, nor am I limiting my thinking. Rather, I will my own unfolding into the world (this process may be understood as 'box-building' by outside observers by virtue of its decisive quality), I state truth as I understand how to state it, and I reject discernably corrupt thinking.

I know that bridges keep the world in harmony, but this does not mean that any bridge will do
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Laz
post Apr 07, 2004, 01:28 AM
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Okay, shock me Dan, tell me something that breaks down the walls of science and religion, something that may seem deluded, stupid, or unreasonable, but something that you absolutely believe in.
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