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> Four Objections To Cartesian Dualism
Shawn
post Jan 12, 2004, 07:48 PM
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just something to get this board started (this is from http://www.msu.edu/user/hacheema/lecture9.htm ):


Four Objections to Cartesian Dualism
• (1) Philosophical Objection: Where does interaction occur?

– Two substances must causally interact. But where?
– Spatial vs. Nonspatial interaction
– Contradiction? -- Dualism both requires that interaction must take place, but denies that mental events occur anywhere.




Four Objections cont.

• (2) Philosophical Objection: How does interaction occur?

– Descartes: ‘animal spirits’ convey mind’s influence to body.

– Response: Still leaves same problem. How does nonspatial substance interact with ‘animal spirits’?
Material causation: force is exerted. But force is a product of mass + acceleration. But nothing mental has mass and nothing mental is capable of acceleration. Therefore, if dualism is true, interaction appears impossible.




Four forms of Cartesian causation

• (1) physical-to-mental
• (2) mental-to-mental
• (3) mental-to-physical
• (4) physical-to-physical
• We can understand (4), but Descartes (and other dualists) owe us an explanation for each of (1), (2), and (3).




Four Objections cont.

• (3) Scientific Objection: Occam’s (‘Okham’s) Razor.

– All things being equal, the simpler hypothesis should be preferred.

• (i) Materialist posits 1 substance (1 type of causation)
• (ii) Dualist posits 2 substances (four types of causation)

– Dualist can tell us nothing of the internal constitution of mind-stuff, or of different types of causation.



Four Objections cont.

• (4) Scientific Objection: the Principle of the Conservation of Energy and the ‘causal closure of the empirical world’

The amount of energy in a closed physical system remains constant at all times (energy is neither created nor destroyed). Therefore, there can be no physical events without physical causes.

– mental-->physical / physical-->mental = gain and loss of energy.




One historical attempt to save dualism: Deny that mental-to-physical causation occurs
• Epiphenomenalism
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Trip like I do
post Aug 20, 2004, 02:30 AM
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Cosmic Consciousness



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A consciousness of the cosmos, knowing the life and order of the universe. It is considered a higher, yet at present an exceptional peak in human evolution which the race is expected to reach in a distant future.

According to Dr. Richard M. Bucke (1837-1902), a friend of Walt Whitman, some individuals, mostly of the male sex, between 30 and 40, and who are highly developed with good intellect, high morals, a superior physique, and an earnest religious feeling can acquire this consciousness.

Dr. Bucke considered thirteen individuals to have possessed such a consciousness: Gautama, Jesus, Paul, Platinus, Mohammed, Dante, Las Casas, John Ypes, Francis Bacon, Jacob Behmen, William Blake, Balzac and Walt Whitman.

The experience comes suddenly without warning with a sensation of being immersed in a flame or rose-colored cloud and is accompanied by a feeling of ecstasy, moral and intellectual illumination in which, like a flash, a clear conception in outline is presented to the mind of the meaning and drift of the universe.

The man or woman going through this experience knows that the universe is a living presence, that life is eternal, the soul of man is immortal, the foundation principle of life is love, and the happiness of every individual in the long run is absolutely certain. All fear of death, all sense of sin is lost, and the personality gains added charm and is transfigured. In a few moments of the experience the individual will learn more than in years or months of study and will learn much that no study will teach.

Walt Whitman described cosmic consciousness as "ineffable light, light rare, untellable, light beyond all signs, descriptions and languages."

Dr. Bucke, whose conclusions was presented in his remarkable book Cosmic Consciousness, was a descendent of Sir Richard Walpole, and was in the position of superintendent of the Asylum for the Insane at London, Onterio, Canada, for 25 years.

Distinctly there are many degrees of higher consciousness from the elementary awareness of shared consciousness with other individuals to the perception of profound scientific insight, and the transcendental experience of the mystic. These represent the varying degrees of creative intelligence of the cosmos, the infinite divine principle represented in the anthropomorphic symbolism of "God" in the many religions of the world. A.G.H.

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Shawn   Four Objections To Cartesian Dualism   Jan 12, 2004, 07:48 PM
Charise   ok..perhaps I've just leaped right into the fi...   Jan 17, 2004, 12:12 PM
purkinje   this argument seems to pit Monism against Dualism,...   Jan 18, 2004, 12:18 AM
CWUPhilStudent   [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Or perhaps, it is much likened...   Jan 31, 2004, 02:08 PM
rhymer   What evidence is there for the immortality of the ...   Jan 31, 2004, 02:56 PM
Kip Ingram   I can propose a mechanism for "mental->phy...   Apr 05, 2004, 11:52 AM
Dan   I believe this is referred to as the 'multiver...   Apr 05, 2004, 05:25 PM
Guest   Actually, not quite. The "multiverse" i...   Apr 05, 2004, 07:01 PM
Guest   That last post (7:01 pm) was Kip Ingram again, by ...   Apr 05, 2004, 07:02 PM
Dan   I guess we could call it a 'multiverse until...   Apr 05, 2004, 07:46 PM
Kip Ingram   Yeah, "multiverse until observed" seems ...   Apr 07, 2004, 07:37 PM
Kip Ingram   Also, I don't really like the notion of thinki...   Apr 07, 2004, 07:44 PM
Dan   although all that stuff sounds very reasonable ins...   Apr 07, 2004, 10:23 PM
Kip Ingram   Well, the paradigm that we're all familiar wit...   Apr 08, 2004, 12:28 PM
Guest   Our mind exercises free will by choosing one of th...   Apr 08, 2004, 01:14 PM
Guest   my notion is that said randomness provides a ...   Apr 08, 2004, 01:32 PM
Kip Ingram   I certainly wouldn't try to claim credit for h...   Apr 08, 2004, 02:32 PM
Guest   I don't blame you for sticking to it. It...   Apr 08, 2004, 02:39 PM
Dan   no worries, I've got an M.S. in physics   Apr 12, 2004, 03:26 PM
Kip Ingram   Then I'm curious; how do you explain the res...   Apr 14, 2004, 07:38 PM
Dan   a quantum 'aether', with the nodes spatial...   Apr 14, 2004, 08:13 PM
Guest   Hahaha!!! I can't help but call...   Apr 15, 2004, 04:42 AM
Joesus   If he has an advanced Collegiate degree then he ju...   Apr 15, 2004, 08:35 AM
Kip Ingram   I agree with the last entry; I'd far rather co...   Apr 15, 2004, 10:16 AM
Dan   the 'pilot' wave is not a real wave, but a...   Apr 19, 2004, 04:20 PM
Dan   Hahaha!!! I can't help but call ...   Apr 19, 2004, 04:21 PM
Robert the Bruce   Solid State Physicists like Dr Don Robbins and Tel...   Apr 20, 2004, 05:51 AM
Kip Ingram   Well, if the pilot wave isn't real then how do...   Apr 20, 2004, 02:25 PM
Dan   I'm not saying the pilot wave isn't real, ...   Apr 20, 2004, 06:42 PM
Dan   philosophical, schmilosophical. You can say any...   Apr 20, 2004, 06:47 PM
Rick   This thread started with objections to dualism and...   Jul 26, 2004, 09:25 AM
Nebulous Inferno   Nice explanations. To me it seems like epiphenome...   Jul 26, 2004, 12:40 PM
Nebulous Inferno   To add to my last post: Pain feels terrible becau...   Jul 26, 2004, 01:00 PM
Nebulous Inferno   One more short post for me, then I need to run. A...   Jul 26, 2004, 01:32 PM
Rick   This explains the motivation that channels mental...   Jul 30, 2004, 10:10 AM
Nebulous Inferno   This explains the motivation that channels mental...   Aug 02, 2004, 02:05 PM
Rick   Many brain researchers believe that lower animals...   Aug 19, 2004, 03:17 PM
Unknown   "Many brain researchers believe that lower an...   Aug 19, 2004, 03:22 PM
Rick   Thank you for the reference, dear Mr. Unknown. I h...   Aug 19, 2004, 03:32 PM
Trip like I do   Cosmic Consciousness --------------------------...   Aug 20, 2004, 02:30 AM
Trip like I do   In Richard Maurice Bucke's magnum opus, ...   Aug 20, 2004, 03:06 AM
Robert the Bruce   I was called The Cosmic Kid by the older brother o...   Aug 20, 2004, 04:50 AM
Rick   I think "Platinus" in the above is a typ...   Aug 20, 2004, 07:16 AM


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