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> Huperzine A and Choline: stack doubt, my first stack
Flandern
post Feb 15, 2012, 09:39 PM
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Dear fellows,

Question 1.

I just got my order from smartpowders (excelent service btw) and while reading the instructions of all the stuff I came across this phrase on the Huperzine A's label:

"Consult with your physician prior to use if (...) you are currently taking any prescription drugs including cholinergic drugs"

As I bought choline bitartrate as well, I was wondering if I would be in trouble taking both at the same time. I didn't find anything about it on the forum.

----
Question 2 (less important)

I will take advantage of the opportunity and write down my stack in case any of you will be kind enough to let me know if I am screwing up my body (my goal is to improve working memory and focus):



Aniracetam.............................. 1 (750mg)
Choline Bitartrate.................... 2g (powder)
Acetyl L-Carnitine.................... 1 (250mg each) between meals
Alpha Lipoic Acid..................... 1 (300mg ) with meals

Vinpocetine............................. 2 capsules (5mg)
Galantamine........................... 1 capsule (no idea)
Rhodiola rosea....................... 1 capsule (500mg)
Gotu Kola-Gotu Kola............... 3 capsules (108mg each)
Huperzine A........................... 1 tablet of 100MCG


I know nothing about neuro-science (all I know is that the cetams go well with choline and that that's controversial) and am basically following the minimum "suggested uses" as well as the suggestion posted by herman_gill in his post (tried to post URL but cant).

As I've been waiting for the opportunity to start taking these things for several months now, I will start taking rhodiola, gotu kola and vinpocetine today. I hope I wont die because of this.

I will be very obliged by any suggestions or comments.




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Jakare
post Feb 16, 2012, 06:21 AM
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Problems:
choline, galantamine and huperzine rise your acetylcholine levels, better not to take them together or if you do it, take at least lower doses of each.

Normal doses:
-2g of choline is way too high, start with something like 250mg (0.25g). 550mg maximun recommended dose a day.
-100mcg of huperzine is a standart dose.
-Galantamine caps use to be around 8mg.

Tips:
-Donīt take the three of them at normal doses at the same time.
-Try them first individually on different days and find if the normal dose is too much for you.
-Galantamine always in the morning or you will have a hard job to get asleep at night and to me even half cap of 4mg was too strong.
-Donīt take huperzine and galantamine chronically, can be bad on the long term.
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5hadow12ogue
post Feb 16, 2012, 10:30 PM
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I've been told that Aniracetam and Piracetam work together quite well. I know while I that for myself Piracetam, choline, and L-theanine has been a real beneficial stack on helping me stay focused. I'm considering adding Aniracetam to my stack sometime soon.

As Jakare said, you should sample the three Galantamine, Huperzine-A, and Choline separately first and see how they work for you individually. I personally am taking 610mg Choline a day, and not exactly sure of how much L-Theanine I'm getting as it is coming from green tea.
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sambocyn
post Feb 18, 2012, 08:56 AM
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indeed, beware. cholinergics often have multiplicative synergy. for example, adding a ACh precursor (like choline) to an AChE inhibitor (like galantamine or huperzine a) multiplies the power (precisely, the duration in the synaptic cleft) of the choline. "choline headaches" (as i call them) really suck (not so much pain as feeling blah beyond blah). i myself get enough choline from an egg (or not even). an egg contains about 100mg choline (according to wikipedia), though the quantity that reaches your blood and brain ("bioavailable") may be lower. so 550mg is too much for me.

as for the racetams, i take a few grams piracetam a day, (among other things, but less frequently). as far as i know, piracetam and aniracetam don't multiply, they add, so stack as thou willst. personally, aniracetam's effect is very brief (~1-2h) compared to piracetam (~4-5h). also, aniracetam (often) leaves me in what can only be described as a "blissful stupor". i'm really dumb, really happy, totally incapable of anything. it's randomly and unwantedly druggie. (ps don't do anything you wouldn't be safe doing drunk: being stupid enough to ride my bike in said "blissful stupor", i smashed into a moving car. wasn't hurt much due to luck, magic, and miracle). that's why i don't take aniracetam in the morning, but i love taking it at night.

vinpocetine i take ~20mg every now and then. starting with 5-10mg is a good idea though, since it makes you really queasy-nauseous for a bit. seems pretty othogonal in effect, so stack as thou willst.

having said all that... everyone's different, experiment prudently, isolate drugs to isolate cause and effect, &c.

happy nootroping, Flandern :)
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Flandern
post Feb 26, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Thank you so much, my nootropic companions, for your comments. I wrote down your suggestions specially those regarding dosage.

5hadow12ogue,

I tried to orde some Piracetam as well, but couldnt. I was told by Smartpowders that it is out of market or something.


sambocyn,

"blissful stupor" with aniracetam? I never tried it but I thought I should expect exactly the opposite in terms of effects.


Everybody,

So, I decided to start off with:

(Morning one pill of each)
Omega3
Vitamins (multi and complex cool.gif
Glingko

(lunch time one pill of each)
Gotu Kola
Rhdiola
Vincpocentine


I was on this stack for exactly 7 days. I didnt feel anything. In the first day I felt I could be more focused, but I am still not sure. Now I am taking the vitamins and Omega only I want to add the other aforementioned substances separately to identify which one makes me more focused (if this is true). I am really disappointed so far.

I will get back to the community with more of my anedoctes.
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BILLnye'sbrother
post May 06, 2012, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(Flandern @ Feb 26, 2012, 02:55 PM) *

Thank you so much, my nootropic companions, for your comments. I wrote down your suggestions specially those regarding dosage.

5hadow12ogue,

I tried to orde some Piracetam as well, but couldnt. I was told by Smartpowders that it is out of market or something.


sambocyn,

"blissful stupor" with aniracetam? I never tried it but I thought I should expect exactly the opposite in terms of effects.


Everybody,

So, I decided to start off with:

(Morning one pill of each)
Omega3
Vitamins (multi and complex cool.gif
Glingko

(lunch time one pill of each)
Gotu Kola
Rhdiola
Vincpocentine


I was on this stack for exactly 7 days. I didnt feel anything. In the first day I felt I could be more focused, but I am still not sure. Now I am taking the vitamins and Omega only I want to add the other aforementioned substances separately to identify which one makes me more focused (if this is true). I am really disappointed so far.

I will get back to the community with more of my anedoctes.



Correct me if I'm wrong but - aren't ONLY Piracetam & Oxyracetam water soluable.

So if anyone is taking any other type of racetam - shouldn't? - they be taking all their "LIPID" soluable racetam's with Omega 3's / EFA's.

So that the 'racetam dissolves into the EFA's and is readily able to cross blood / brain?

JUST A THOUGHT
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Flex
post May 06, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Good thought; however, EFA's are generally provided in triglyceride form, which are then broken down and reassembled upon digestion. Taking fat soluble racetams with EFAs should increase bioavailability, but that is not to say that this will increase the permeability of the blood brain barrier. If you really wanted to do that, a nanoparticle emulsion would probably be the way to go. I have been theorizing recently that it may be possible to increase blood brain barrier permeability by coadministration of MSM.
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